We can only hate things and concepts.

[KingJ]

Hate still means hate. Paul was quoting Malachi, so if you really want insight on god hating esau, look at the hebrew word. Guess what? It means to hate! Second, the primary meaning of the greek word is to detest. By extebnsion it can mean to love less. No where in the NT is it used that way.

So, it appears what you have done is simply grabbed concordance and found an obscure definition to again, fit modern dictrine (that being God loves everybody and is incapable of hate).

God HATES sin. NOT the sinner.

1. Does God entertaing the devils temptation / nonsense on more then one occasion in the wilderness point to love or hate?
2. Does God love pigs? Did God love the demons more then the pigs he cast them into?
3. When God tells us to love our enemies in Matt 5:44, you assume He hates His? He is a hypocrite?
4. If you believe God hates the person...then WHY do you not believe God also hates eyes, tongues, hands, hearts and feet?

Prov 6:16- 19: There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

 

[FHII]

God HATES sin. NOT the sinner.

1. Does God entertaing the devils temptation / nonsense on more then one occasion in the wilderness point to love or hate?
2. Does God love pigs? Did God love the demons more then the pigs he cast them into?
3. When God tells us to love our enemies in Matt 5:44, you assume He hates His? He is a hypocrite?
4. If you believe God hates the person...then WHY do you not believe God also hates eyes, tongues, hands, hearts and feet?

Prov 6:16- 19: There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

You can believe that all you want, but that's not what the Bible says. NOT EVEN THE VERY VERSE YOU CITED!!!!

Prov 6:16- 19: There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Right there are two people -- not sins, but the sinners themselves -- the Lord hates!

As for your questions.... They're rediculous and really not even deservant of a response.

 

[KingJ]

You can believe that all you want, but that's not what the Bible says. NOT EVEN THE VERY VERSE YOU CITED!!!!

Prov 6:16- 19: There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Right there are two people -- not sins, but the sinners themselves -- the Lord hates!

As for your questions.... They're rediculous and really not even deservant of a response.

Huh? That reads as a false witness...who pours out lies......and a person who stirs up conflict.

Those other points are not ridiculous. You are failing at lateral thought and insinuating that God is a hypocrite if you assume He hates His enemies. How in the universe do you not see Him as a hypocrite?? Please explain that to me.

Insinuating God hates anyone is a very disgusting belief! Jesus loved you when you were wicked....and to a degree we still are.

One last point. 1 Pet 4:18 The righteous are barely saved. Consider that with the fact that ''love'' is polar opposite to ''hate''...and then ask yourself if the righteous that ''just'' make it into heaven deserve the polar opposite of hate and those that ''just'' don't make it deserve the polar opposite of love......this is a conundrum of note with your belief!!

 

[FHII]

Huh? That read as a false witness...who pours out lies......and a person who stirs up conflict.

Those other points are not ridiculous. You are failing at lateral thought and insinuating that God is a hypocrite if you assume He hates His enemies. How in the universe do you not see Him as a hypocrite?? Please explain that to me.

Insinuating God hates anyone is a very disgusting belief! Jesus loved you when you were wicked....and to a degree we still are.

One last point. 1 Pet 4:18 The righteous are barely saved. Consider that with the fact that ''love'' is polar opposite to ''hate''...and then ask yourself if the righteous that ''just'' make it into heaven deserve the polar opposite of hate and those that ''just'' don't make it deserve the polar opposite of love......this is a conundrum of note with your belief!!

.
No, it does not read, "as a false witness...". It clearly states that a false witness and one who sews discord. These are people God hates, and is just as clear as when God said he hated Esau. I'm just quoting what God said.

Never did I insinuate tgat God is a hypocrite. That's all you KJ. It makes perfect sense if you know how to pray for your enemies.

Your one last point doesn't make sense, at least not the way you worded it.

 

[KingJ]

.
No, it does not read, "as a false witness...". It clearly states that a false witness and one who sews discord. These are people God hates, and is just as clear as when God said he hated Esau. I'm just quoting what God said.

Never did I insinuate tgat God is a hypocrite. That's all you KJ. It makes perfect sense if you know how to pray for your enemies.

Your one last point doesn't make sense, at least not the way you worded it.

You are blurring things now. Can you agree that God hates you when you sin? Which does NOT translate as God hating ''you''...fullstop.

''I hate FHI'' and ''I hate FHI when he lies''' are worlds apart. God does NOT hate a person who is a false witness. God hates a false witness (verb not noun). God hates one who sews discord (verb not noun). God does not hate Esau. God hates Esau doing X and Y. God does not hate the flesh and blood that makes up a tongue. God does not hate the ''actual' person that is sinning.

When we group people ''wicked / sinners'' it is hence better to say God detests them. To say God hates them (literal / noun) simply shows a language comprehension fail. Is that what you saying?

As for God being a hypocrite. You are doging this like you did my original facts. You really think ''saying I insinuated that'' alleviates you? You implied it. I am asking how a SANE person can see your statement as anything other. If I told my kid to turn the left cheek to a bully and then I smack my bully.......I am a hypocrite....

 

[FHII]

You are blurring things now. Can you agree that God hates you when you sin? Which does NOT translate as God hating ''you''...fullstop.

''I hate FHI'' and ''I hate FHI when he lies''' are worlds apart. God does NOT hate a person who is a false witness. God hates a false witness (verb not noun). God hates one who sews discord (verb not noun). God does not hate Esau. God hates Esau doing X and Y. God does not hate the flesh and blood that makes up a tongue. God does not hate the ''actual' person that is sinning.

When we group people ''wicked / sinners'' it is hence better to say God detests them. To say God hates them (literal / noun) simply shows a language comprehension fail. Is that what you saying?

As for God being a hypocrite. You are doging this like you did my original facts. You really think ''saying I insinuated that'' alleviates you? You implied it. I am asking how a SANE person can see your statement as anything other. If I told my kid to turn the left cheek to a bully and then I smack my bully.......I am a hypocrite....

No, I am not blurring it. I am going by what the bible says. It says God hates false witnesses, those who sew discord, and Esau. You are changing them from nouns into verbs. Plain and simple. You are dodging what the bible says plainly, yet you are going to accuse me of dodging your accusations? Gimmie a break!

You want me to address your accusations that I'm calling God a hypocrite? Ok, I will. Provided that you admit the fact that God hated Esau. God hates false witnesses and that God hates those that sew discord.

All I'm asking is that you agree with what the bible says. Shouldn't be to hard if you have the mind of Christ.

So tell the truth... does the bible say, "jacob have I loved, and Esau have I hated", or does it say, "jacob have I loved and the actions of Esau have I hated"?

Don't draw this out longer... just admitthe truth.

Id really like to talk about the love of God, but I won't until I make my point that while God is love, that's not all he is.

 

[KingJ]

No, I am not blurring it. I am going by what the bible says.

No, you are not reading it properly + insinuating God is evil + denying it. There is no way around the fact that telling someone to love their enemies and then we hate ours, makes us a hypocrite.

 

[StanJ]

You can believe that all you want, but that's not what the Bible says. NOT EVEN THE VERY VERSE YOU CITED!!!!

Prov 6:16- 19: There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.

Right there are two people -- not sins, but the sinners themselves -- the Lord hates!

As for your questions.... They're rediculous and really not even deservant of a response.

Apparently you also believe what Jesus taught about cutting off your hand if it makes you sin?
Eyes don't sin, neither do tongues, or hands, or feet. The point of Prov 6 is that a man's sinful nature precipitates these sins and God hates the sin not the man.
God so LOVED the WORLD does not mean He loves the rocks and dirt FHII.

 

[FHII]

No, you are not reading it properly + insinuating God is evil + denying it. There is no way around the fact that telling someone to love

their enemies and then we hate ours, makes us a hypocrite.

Nope. Now YOU are insinuating God is evil. Not me. You have much to repent for.

I'm just reading it as it says!

Apparently you also believe what Jesus taught about cutting off your hand if it makes you sin?
Eyes don't sin, neither do tongues, or hands, or feet. The point of Prov 6 is that a man's sinful nature precipitates these sins and God hates the sin not the man.
God so LOVED the WORLD does not mean He loves the rocks and dirt FHII.

Oh really? Because I have a verse that says when Jesus talked about "the world" hr was talking about the field, not all the plants in it.

My stance does not contradict the bible, yours does. I don't have to change thr meaning of words or deny what the bible says. You do.

 

[StanJ]

Oh really? Because I have a verse that says when Jesus talked about "the world" hr was talking about the field, not all the plants in it.

My stance does not contradict the bible, yours does. I don't have to change thr meaning of words or deny what the bible says. You do.

You'll have to do better than that, and not just avoid my questions.

Did Jesus mean that we are to cut off our hand to avoid hell? If you don't get the style of the message then you don't get it, pure and simple.

 

[FHII]

You'll have to do better than that, and not just avoid my questions.

Did Jesus mean that we are to cut off our hand to avoid hell? If you don't get the style of the message then you don't get it, pure and simple.

No, I don't have to do better than that. Its what the bible says and if you don't want to believe, that's your problem.

The answer to your question is simple and easy. Why bother, though? If you aren't going to believe what the bible says, why waste my time?

 

[StanJ]

No, I don't have to do better than that. Its what the bible says and if you don't want to believe, that's your problem.
The answer to your question is simple and easy. Why bother, though? If you aren't going to believe what the bible says, why waste my time?

You're absolutely right, you don't have to. IMO, you can't, which explains your response. I personally don't have a problem understanding or believing what the Bible says and don't have a problem explaining it. Obviously you do.
These type of defensive and vitriolic responses are typical of people with foot in mouth disease.
You don't seem to have a problem posting your opinions, just supporting them.

 

[FHII]

You're absolutely right, you don't have to. IMO, you can't, which explains your response. I personally don't have a problem understanding or believing what the Bible says and don't have a problem explaining it. Obviously you do.
These type of defensive and vitriolic responses are typical of people with foot in mouth disease.
You don't seem to have a problem posting your opinions, just supporting them.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong and without understanding.

You are missing the point. God said he hated 7 things. 5 were actions to which he attributed to body parts (yet we both know are caused by the human mind), and two of them were people or persons. God took the time to note that, but you just won't accept what God said.

You aren't explaining the bible. You are flat out saying it means the opposite of what it says. Is your position that God loves everyone? Well, I've given verses that say he hates or hated some people.

I honestly believe you are blinded by John 3:16 and 1 john 4:8. Wonderful verses! But neither of them say God loves everyone. God is love but that isn't all he is. Yet you are trying to see every verse in the bible as john 3:16. Doesn't work.

If you're interested, you can also see that God hated some people in psalms 5:5, 11:5 and also hosia 9:15. The latter is pretty scary because not only did God say he hated the, he said he would not love them any more.

As for your reference to mat 7.... I do have a response as I've studied it extensively. But no... I'm not going to bother if you deny or "explain" what God has said.

Do you actually have a verse that says God loves everyone? In 15 years of reading the bible, I have yet to find it.

 

[StanJ]

You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong and without understanding.

You are missing the point. God said he hated 7 things. 5 were actions to which he attributed to body parts (yet we both know are caused by the human mind), and two of them were people or persons. God took the time to note that, but you just won't accept what God said.

You aren't explaining the bible. You are flat out saying it means the opposite of what it says. Is your position that God loves everyone? Well, I've given verses that say he hates or hated some people.

I honestly believe you are blinded by John 3:16 and 1 john 4:8. Wonderful verses! But neither of them say God loves everyone. God is love but that isn't all he is. Yet you are trying to see every verse in the bible as john 3:16. Doesn't work.

If you're interested, you can also see that God hated some people in psalms 5:5, 11:5 and also hosia 9:15. The latter is pretty scary because not only did God say he hated the, he said he would not love them any more.

As for your reference to mat 7.... I do have a response as I've studied it extensively. But no... I'm not going to bother if you deny or "explain" what God has said.

Do you actually have a verse that says God loves everyone? In 15 years of reading the bible, I have yet to find it.

Thanks, I know I'm entitled to my opinion, and you haven't proven I'm wrong.

Simply quoting scripture without proper exegesis means nothing.

v16 sets the tone here IF you understand grammar and context, and it states as you quoted in post 22 from the NIV, "There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to Him:"
It says NOTHING about people, it says THINGS. Traits of sin, NOT sinful people.

The scriptures that say God loves ALL people are numerous and even though I gave you one you denied it. The basic tenet of Christianity, John 3:16. Others include;
Romans 5:8 and Romans 9:25. Love is the basis of ALL God's commands and the NT is filled with instructions to love even our enemies. God can do no less than He expects of us.
1 Cor 13 tells us the greatest is love and ALL the law is based on love. If you think God has one set of rules for us and one set for Himself, you DON'T know God. God IS love. Love does not hate. Jesus died for sin ONCE for ALL. Rom 6:10

I guess you haven't paid much attention in the 15 years you purport to have been reading the bible....I have been reading it for over 44 years and I saw His love from the very first time.

What God hates is shown in Psalm 101:3 and Prov 8:13 Casting dispersions on God only demonstrates you don't really know Him.

 

[FHII]

1. In pro 6 God hated six things; two of them happened to be people. God said it. It is written and you are trying to explain why God didn't mean what he said.
2. You saying that John 3:16 is the tenet of Christianity lends support to my suspicion that you try to read every verse as it were John 3:16. Its not.
3. John 3:16 does not say God loves everyone. It says he loved the world. Jesus said the field is the world and the good seed were his children but the tares weren't.
4. Romans 5:8 doesn't say God loves everyone, consider Paul's audience. Romans 9:25 is talking about his people. Not everyone is his; some are Satan's.
6. Romans 6:10 doesn't even say what you claim. It doesn't say Christ died "once for all"; it says he died once ( meaning that he doesn't need to do it again).

Did you say you've been reading the bible for 44 years? Its amazing that if you've been reading that long youd commit such a simple error.
7. I didn't even talk about psalms 101:3 or proverbs 8:13, so I don't know why you are bringing them up. Yed, God hates those thing too, but they don't take away from the fact that God said there were some oeople he hated too.
8. The notion that God lives by the same rules is very chilish. For example, a father who tells a child not to drink alcohol has done well, even if he (the father) does. Adults understand this concept, but its very confusing to children. Directly related to this, God told Israel not to take vengence against his neighbor, then he later said vengeance was his.

Want another example? What does exo 20:13 say? Did God ever to that? I rest my case.

 

[justaname]

1. In pro 6 God hated six things; two of them happened to be people. God said it. It is written and you are trying to explain why God didn't mean what he said.
2. You saying that John 3:16 is the tenet of Christianity lends support to my suspicion that you try to read every verse as it were John 3:16. Its not.
3. John 3:16 does not say God loves everyone. It says he loved the world. Jesus said the field is the world and the good seed were his children but the tares weren't.
4. Romans 5:8 doesn't say God loves everyone, consider Paul's audience. Romans 9:25 is talking about his people. Not everyone is his; some are Satan's.
6. Romans 6:10 doesn't even say what you claim. It doesn't say Christ died "once for all"; it says he died once ( meaning that he doesn't need to do it again).

Did you say you've been reading the bible for 44 years? Its amazing that if you've been reading that long youd commit such a simple error.
7. I didn't even talk about psalms 101:3 or proverbs 8:13, so I don't know why you are bringing them up. Yed, God hates those thing too, but they don't take away from the fact that God said there were some oeople he hated too.
8. The notion that God lives by the same rules is very chilish. For example, a father who tells a child not to drink alcohol has done well, even if he (the father) does. Adults understand this concept, but its very confusing to children. Directly related to this, God told Israel not to take vengence against his neighbor, then he later said vengeance was his.

Want another example? What does exo 20:13 say? Did God ever to that? I rest my case.

Why would you compare God to man? You point your very error out in this post. God does not think like you do, nor like I do. Yet through His revealed word we can gather what He has for us to understand.

Nothing that God does will go against His nature. God is the only good.

Now do you truly believe God is a murderer? If you do then you truly serve a lesser god than the God of the Bible. A god who murders can not be good but evil.

 

[StanJ]

1. In pro 6 God hated six things; two of them happened to be people. God said it. It is written and you are trying to explain why God didn't mean what he said.
2. You saying that John 3:16 is the tenet of Christianity lends support to my suspicion that you try to read every verse as it were John 3:16. Its not.
3. John 3:16 does not say God loves everyone. It says he loved the world. Jesus said the field is the world and the good seed were his children but the tares weren't.
4. Romans 5:8 doesn't say God loves everyone, consider Paul's audience. Romans 9:25 is talking about his people. Not everyone is his; some are Satan's.
6. Romans 6:10 doesn't even say what you claim. It doesn't say Christ died "once for all"; it says he died once ( meaning that he doesn't need to do it again).

Did you say you've been reading the bible for 44 years? Its amazing that if you've been reading that long youd commit such a simple error.
7. I didn't even talk about psalms 101:3 or proverbs 8:13, so I don't know why you are bringing them up. Yed, God hates those thing too, but they don't take away from the fact that God said there were some oeople he hated too.
8. The notion that God lives by the same rules is very chilish. For example, a father who tells a child not to drink alcohol has done well, even if he (the father) does. Adults understand this concept, but its very confusing to children. Directly related to this, God told Israel not to take vengence against his neighbor, then he later said vengeance was his.

Want another example? What does exo 20:13 say? Did God ever to that? I rest my case.

1. THINGS, not people. Clearly their sins, not them.
2. Yes it is and the fact that you don't deal with it shows you don't believe what it says.
3. Matthew 13:37-39 says NOTHING about God's love, it's talking about salvation. 2 Peter 3:9 shows God wants ALL people to be saved, as He LOVES all people.
4. If God loves ALL sinners then He loves the world. Rom 9:25 is talking about those that are NOT His people. Reading doesn't seem to be your strong suit.
6. It says ONCE for ALL. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rom%206%3A10&version=NIV;NASB;NET;NRSV;MOUNCE and yes that is what it means. Jesus did not die for believers only, and if you believe redemption was only for a few you've got a bigger problem than not being able to read in proper hermeneutical fashion.
7. I brought them up to show the overall context in the word. Why did you bring up others? They don't show God hates people unless you are predisposed to believe that lie of the devil.
8. God makes the rules and He lives by His own rules. Again Christianity 101. God never murdered but He did kill and He has commanded His people in the distant past to kill. The NT is also the NC with NEW rules based on LOVE. If you don't see the difference, that's not surprising. As you have actually not MADE a case, there is nothing to rest. We'll see how your peers feel on this thread.

 

[FHII]

Why would you compare God to man? You point your very error out in this post. God does not think like you do, nor like I do. Yet through His revealed word we can gather what He has for us to understand.

Nothing that God does will go against His nature. God is the only good.

Now do you truly believe God is a murderer? If you do then you truly serve a lesser god than the God of the Bible. A god who murders can not be good but evil.

Now the fact that I pointed out "my own error" should tell you something, shouldn't it? I responded to the childish notion that if God tells us something, he better do it too. I'd have to go back and look, but I think you were trying to make the same point.

Who said anything about murder? I certainly didn't. Exodus didn't. That verse says thou shalt not kill. Does God kill? Yes, he does, and I have a verse in which he said, "I kill". Would you like a reference for that so you can explain why God didn't mean what he said?

Seriously, I wish you folks would put a little more effort into reading.
StanJ wrote:

"It says ONCE for ALL. https://www.biblegat...NET;NRSV;MOUNCE and yes that is what it means. Jesus did not die for believers only, and if you believe redemption was only for a few you've got a bigger problem than not being able to read in proper hermeneutical fashion"

Once again, your post is denying things God has said. Nothing more from me, but I can't help but to respond to this bit:


Rom 6:9-10. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. [10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

There it is... even in context its talking about how many times he died (once) and not how many he died for.

Did Jesus only die for believers? Hmm... wonder if I have a verse for that? I do:

John 3:16: God so loved the world that he gave his inly begotten son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM should not perish, but shall have everlasting life.

Read verse 18 and it notes that nonbelievers are already condemned.

Now ain't that a kick in the head? Your own cornerstone verse contradicts you!

Bow, I know there is more to it than that... after all, we all start out as nonbelievers. But you better become one or Christ's resurrection isn't going to work for you.

I don't recall even discussing how many the redemption is for. Granted, its enough for every man, wonan and child who ever had or will live, but how many is it for? The answer is for all those he has chosen.

 

[justaname]

Now the fact that I pointed out "my own error" should tell you something, shouldn't it? I responded to the childish notion that if God tells us something, he better do it too. I'd have to go back and look, but I think you were trying to make the same point.

Who said anything about murder? I certainly didn't. Exodus didn't. That verse says thou shalt not kill. Does God kill? Yes, he does, and I have a verse in which he said, "I kill". Would you like a reference for that so you can explain why God didn't mean what he said?

Seriously, I wish you folks would put a little more effort into reading.
StanJ wrote:

"It says ONCE for ALL. https://www.biblegat...NET;NRSV;MOUNCE and yes that is what it means. Jesus did not die for believers only, and if you believe redemption was only for a few you've got a bigger problem than not being able to read in proper hermeneutical fashion"

Once again, your post is denying things God has said. Nothing more from me, but I can't help but to respond to this bit:


Rom 6:9-10. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. [10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

There it is... even in context its talking about how many times he died (once) and not how many he died for.

Did Jesus only die for believers? Hmm... wonder if I have a verse for that? I do:

John 3:16: God so loved the world that he gave his inly begotten son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM should not perish, but shall have everlasting life.

Read verse 18 and it notes that nonbelievers are already condemned.

Now ain't that a kick in the head? Your own cornerstone verse contradicts you!

Bow, I know there is more to it than that... after all, we all start out as nonbelievers. But you better become one or Christ's resurrection isn't going to work for you.

I don't recall even discussing how many the redemption is for. Granted, its enough for every man, wonan and child who ever had or will live, but how many is it for? The answer is for all those he has chosen.

No my friend, the correct translation is murder.

Many penalties for sin in the law of Moses is death.

 

[StanJ]

No my friend, the correct translation is murder.

Funny how he uses the NIV when it suits him but resorts to the old KJV when it doesn't. This is a typical ploy for those that read the bible eisegetically.
You can lead a horse to water but sadly if they don't want to drink it in, they won't.