What About Other Religions?

[Jimmy Engle]

Isick,

I don't know why you are attacking Nomad on this issue. He is clearly answering your questions and providing scripture to prove that he is not just giving you his opinion on the subject. Also, after reading through this thread, it seems to me that you are trying to seek the truth, but when it is shown to you...you seem to be trying to debate it or get around it or avoid it somehow. It's almost like you are trying to seek the truth but you don't want to actually find it because you know that as soon as you find it you will have to submit to it and you are unwilling to do so.

Jesus Christ was sent to earth to become a living sacrifice. He died and bore our sins and became a curse. God's justice was satisfied after crushing His only begotten son. It was then that Jesus sat down and the right hand of the Father and was giving a name that is above all names. He is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. He will come back to earth to rule the nations with a rod of iron. This is nothing new, all things are foretold in the bible. It's just a question of whether you chose to believe it or not.

If you don't understand why we have to put faith in Jesus in order to be saved then I would suggest you read Romans Chapters 3-5. This part of Romans deals with why God is faithful and just, how we are justified through faith or believing in Jesus, and how we are justified through the blood of Christ. If you want more scripture that talks about why Jesus is the only way to the Father then just ask me and I would be happy to share with you more.

It seems that you are headed in the right direction though and I encourage you to keep pressing on! Jesus was NOT just some messenger or prophet, he was truly the son of God. He died for us so that we might live. God bless and keep seeking Him!

 

[Isick]

Isick,

I don't know why you are attacking Nomad on this issue. He is clearly answering your questions and providing scripture to prove that he is not just giving you his opinion on the subject. Also, after reading through this thread, it seems to me that you are trying to seek the truth, but when it is shown to you...you seem to be trying to debate it or get around it or avoid it somehow. It's almost like you are trying to seek the truth but you don't want to actually find it because you know that as soon as you find it you will have to submit to it and you are unwilling to do so.

. . .

If you don't understand why we have to put faith in Jesus in order to be saved then I would suggest you read Romans Chapters 3-5. This part of Romans deals with why God is faithful and just, how we are justified through faith or believing in Jesus, and how we are justified through the blood of Christ. If you want more scripture that talks about why Jesus is the only way to the Father then just ask me and I would be happy to share with you more.

It seems that you are headed in the right direction though and I encourage you to keep pressing on! Jesus was NOT just some messenger or prophet, he was truly the son of God. He died for us so that we might live. God bless and keep seeking Him!

Well I came here to learn - to question and to receive answers. You tell me to read Romans, do you think I have not already done this? I spent the last year reading and re-reading the texts as members of THIS COMMUNITY encouraged. They told me, "you will understand when you read... Read, and after you have read ask your questions." So here I am... I have read, and now I have questions. Are you now going to turn me away?

What Questions do I have?
Why is Christianity the only Abrahamic religion that believes Heaven is reserved for them?
Why didn't Jesus die on the cross for all mankind; doesn't God loves all men equally? (Romans 3:29)
Why is man punished eternally for a finite time spent sinning?
If Jesus was the Messiah why are only a handful of prophecies fulfilled? Why didn't he fulfill them ALL?
What did Jesus do that made him different than any other prophet?
- He performed Miracles? So did Elijah!
- He Raised the dead? So did Elisha!
- He Was punished for the sins of His people? So was Moses!
Have you ever wondered why the only synoptic gospel that doesn't fit the other three is John - and it just happens to be the one most quoted by Christians as proof of Christ's divinity?
Why is Paul so willing to denounce those that ask for proof when he himself required divine intervention to "see the light."
Why do Christians believe some commandments are relevant and others are not? You no longer have to keep the Sabbath holy, but you DO have to void lust?
Why do Christians no longer follow the 613 Commandments when it clearly says "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31)


And these are just the start. If this board really cared about its members it would hold up to their end of the bargain. I did my time, I read, I educated myself, I attended Church, I went to Youth Groups, and look where it got me! I have been asking these questions for the passed couple months - ever since I finished the NT and I have not yet met a single Christian that can answer half of them...

... Do not trouble yourself trying to answer my questions.... I would hate to make you do any reading to find the answers...

 

[Jimmy Engle]

Well I came here to learn - to question and to receive answers. You tell me to read Romans, do you think I have not already done this? I spent the last year reading and re-reading the texts as members of THIS COMMUNITY encouraged. They told me, "you will understand when you read... Read, and after you have read ask your questions." So here I am... I have read, and now I have questions. Are you now going to turn me away?

What Questions do I have?
Why is Christianity the only Abrahamic religion that believes Heaven is reserved for them?
Why didn't Jesus die on the cross for all mankind; doesn't God loves all men equally? (Romans 3:29)
Why is man punished eternally for a finite time spent sinning?
If Jesus was the Messiah why are only a handful of prophecies fulfilled? Why didn't he fulfill them ALL?
What did Jesus do that made him different than any other prophet?
- He performed Miracles? So did Elijah!
- He Raised the dead? So did Elisha!
- He Was punished for the sins of His people? So was Moses!
Have you ever wondered why the only synoptic gospel that doesn't fit the other three is John - and it just happens to be the one most quoted by Christians as proof of Christ's divinity?
Why is Paul so willing to denounce those that ask for proof when he himself required divine intervention to "see the light."
Why do Christians believe some commandments are relevant and others are not? You no longer have to keep the Sabbath holy, but you DO have to void lust?
Why do Christians no longer follow the 613 Commandments when it clearly says "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31)


And these are just the start. If this board really cared about its members it would hold up to their end of the bargain. I did my time, I read, I educated myself, I attended Church, I went to Youth Groups, and look where it got me! I have been asking these questions for the passed couple months - ever since I finished the NT and I have not yet met a single Christian that can answer half of them...

... Do not trouble yourself trying to answer my questions.... I would hate to make you do any reading to find the answers...

First off, I don't see where anyone said they didn't care about you or answering your questions. I certainly care, otherwise I would of minded my own business. Now personally, I don't have all the answers to your questions at the moment. However, I can answer a few of them and then I want to ask you a few question just out of curiosity.

What made Jesus different from all the other prophets is that he came back from the dead as a testament to the fact that He had control of life and death. He had the authority to die and raise himself back up again. No one has that kind of authority.

Jesus knew, like Paul, that people who were unbelievers would look for a sign to be given before they would believe. Jesus wouldn't give those that asked Him for a sign because even if He did they still wouldn't believe.

The reason why some Christians believe some commandments are relevant and others are not is because everyone likes to adopt their own interpretations of scripture in order to justify themselves. Most people who claim to be Christian are unconverted to start off with. This is because the doctrine of regeneration is lost in the church today. People don't really understand what it is to be saved...they think it's if they pray a prayer one time then they are saved because the evangelist told them they were saved.

I myself an relatively knew to this walk with Christ. I don't have all the answers or all the wisdom like others, but I do care to see that you get your questions answered so I will get back to you on these once I have time to do a little research.

I was curious though if you have ever actually tried, after going to church, reading the bible and talking with other Christians, repenting and believing in Christ so that you may be saved? I can guarantee one thing, if you were saved you would not doubt whether or not Jesus is Lord or the Son of God.

 

[Isick]

I apologize James, I did not mean to single you out, I am just tired of asking questions and getting "read" as a response. It seems that when people don't know the answer instead of saying "I don't know" they just say "read" as if it is I that missed something along the way.

What made Jesus different from all the other prophets is that he came back from the dead as a testament to the fact that He had control of life and death. He had the authority to die and raise himself back up again. No one has that kind of authority.

Samuel comes back from the dead to consult with Saul in the OT. He was disturbed and came up on his own; he was a Prophet. (1Samuel 28:14)

Jesus knew, like Paul, that people who were unbelievers would look for a sign to be given before they would believe. Jesus wouldn't give those that asked Him for a sign because even if He did they still wouldn't believe.

But Paul required such a sign! Had Jesus not given him the sign he would have continued to hunt and kill the Christians in the area and so how hypocritical is it of him to denounce others that request a similar miracle!

The reason why some Christians believe some commandments are relevant and others are not is because everyone likes to adopt their own interpretations of scripture in order to justify themselves. Most people who claim to be Christian are unconverted to start off with. This is because the doctrine of regeneration is lost in the church today. People don't really understand what it is to be saved...they think it's if they pray a prayer one time then they are saved because the evangelist told them they were saved.

If the logic behind Christianity was so cut and dry; so intuitively obvious, then I imagine there would not be thousands (literally) of different sects of Christianity. It just goes to show I am not the only one questioning.

I myself an relatively knew to this walk with Christ. I don't have all the answers or all the wisdom like others, but I do care to see that you get your questions answered so I will get back to you on these once I have time to do a little research.

I honestly appreciate your efforts, but I imagine you will not find an answer for me - I have searched many times.

I was curious though if you have ever actually tried, after going to church, reading the bible and talking with other Christians, repenting and believing in Christ so that you may be saved?

Repenting unto Christ? I dare not risk the relationship I have with God by "repenting" to, what I understand to be, an idol of Christianity. If you can show me how Christ is NOT an idol (and how the idea of Christ does not break the first commandment) then I might consider praying unto him. Until such a time, I will pray to the Lord of my Fathers for there is no doubt in my mind as to His power.

I can guarantee one thing, if you were saved you would not doubt whether or not Jesus is Lord or the Son of God.

Perhaps, then, I am not saved by Christ.

 

[Jimmy Engle]

The real main issue here seems to be all about Christ and his deity. I can understand how a person can question if Jesus is really god or a man. The bible says that he is both. If you compare Jesus to the other prophets then you would certainly get a sense that he was no different. However, a few verses come to mind that separate Jesus from all men.

Mark 4:39-41 - And He got up and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, "Hush, be still." And the wind died down and it became perfectly calm. And He said to them, "Why are you afraid? Do you still have no faith?" They became very much afraid and said to one another, "Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?"

Jesus not only performed many miracles but he even commanded nature which is something that only God could do. Also Jesus was the only one who lived His life without sin. According to the bible without even having to look at scripture we know that all men or born in sin and cannot be perfect. All men sin in one way or another. To prove my point we are supposed to love God with all our hear, soul, mind, and strength all the time. No one does that all the time so therefore besides being born in sin we also sin on our own.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

This verse clearly states that Jesus was God's only son. No other man women or child can claim this.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 - And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So we learn here that the Word or the bible is God. We also know that the Word or God because they equal the same thing according to John 1:1 became flesh and lived among us and he was the only begotten from the Father. John 3:16 states that the only begotten of the father that is mentioned in John 1:14 was his Son.

Also, it can be concluded therefore, that since the Word is God, we know that the bible speaks truth. Since the bible speaks truth, God is not lying to us when he says that the Word which is God became flesh. So Jesus who was the Son of God was the Word in the flesh and therefore not just a man but God in the flesh or human form.

Now the question that I am wondering is do you believe the bible or God's Word to be true? If you do then you know that the scripture that I am showing to you speaks the truth about the Son of God and that he was God in the flesh. If you can't accept this then I don't know what will convince you. What I would recommend to you is that you turn away from man and turn to God. Pray that he will reveal to you truth. Turn away from your own understanding and turn to God. I like to follow Proverbs 3:5-6 - Trust in the Lord with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. In all way acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.

If you observe what I have just mentioned and you lean not on your understanding of things but acknowledge God in all ways, he will direct you and reveal to you the truth. I have faith that God will show you what you are seeking. It can be easy for a person to listen to other men who are in God's eyes, weak and pitiful and helpless and extremely flawed. Many people have come along and tried to force there interpretations of scripture upon me. But at the end of the day it's all about what God says is true. If you believe in His word then you will believe in Jesus Christ. Just keep seeking after God man and I am sure he will show you what is the truth. I honestly don't know what else I can say or do to convince you that Jesus is who I say he is but I know God can. God bless and keep pressing on!

 

[Nomad]

Isick,

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. But first I have a question for you. I answered the question that started this thread. I gave you the very words of Jesus himself and yet you seem to be going out of your way to get around the irrefutable. I can answer your questions, but why should I bother seeing that you have already made up your mind that no answer will suffice?

 

[Isick]

Isick,

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here. But first I have a question for you. I answered the question that started this thread. I gave you the very words of Jesus himself and yet you seem to be going out of your way to get around the irrefutable. I can answer your questions, but why should I bother seeing that you have already made up your mind that no answer will suffice?

Well I suppose you don't have to bother if it pleases you not to. I asked because I noticed, like I said earlier, that some Christians believe other Religions have a lot in heaven and some Christians do not. It is evident even in this community that there is a difference of opinion.

This difference of opinion is what makes me question where Christians get their information from, you know? If something is so intuitively obvious there should be no question as to what is "truth" and what is not, but clearly the Bible does not hold this characteristic otherwise there wouldn't be so many sects of Christianity. That is not a bad thing, I just enjoy seeing from what lines of texts conclusions are drawn.

The real main issue here seems to be all about Christ and his deity

That is part of the problem yes - I do not believe that Christ was God, but I also don't see how it matters one way or another. If someone payed the price for my sins what does it matter whether he was man or god? In either case my sin is still payed for.

I suppose I question the idea of "justification through faith alone". I believe that God loves all of his children and so Jesus would have died to pay the price for all of their sins because, after all, the purpose of Christ was to pay for the sins that are otherwise unpayable. Well, what better way to do that than to have Christ's death be entirely unconditional? And I cite Mathew 9:10 as my evidence. Christ served those that needed him most, and who needs Christ in their life more than he that is without Christ? Should we forget the price Christ payed? No! But we should realize that the gift remains, even if the recipient refuses to acknowledge from where it came. It is because of this I believe Christ's gift is all encompassing and that all man will have a seat at the table of God.

So we learn here that the Word or the bible is God.

Jesus is the Word, the Bible is man's recantation of the acts performed by Jesus; this distinction must be made. Unlike the Old Testament, the New Testament was not written by God, it was written by man and because of this it is inherently flawed. I believe in the acts of Jesus, but the majority of the Bible (NT) was written by Paul and who is he but a man; an apostle - not even a prophet! And so while I believe it safe to follow much of his teaching, one must be careful to acknowledge that his commandments are NOT God's commandments.

Beyond this I can see your point. I don't expect you to convince me of anything; I imagine nothing short of divine intervention will sway my heart as it stands, but I do appreciate your insight. I would be curious to hear your ideas regarding my other questions. In all cases, even if you do not change my mind you will at least reinforce your own and remind yourself WHY you believe what you believe. My friend and I argue all the time about religion and in the end we always conclude that to debate is better to forget - discussion strengthens you spiritually.

 

[Adstar]

I attended a local christian outreach program and had the chance to ask some questions to some local Christians. Here is what I concluded:
- You must believe in Christ
- You must believe he died for your sins
- You must believe he was God.
That seemed easy enough, but when I asked them, "Will observant Jews and Muslims sit with God in heaven?" many of them found it hard to say no.

So now I pose my question to the Educated Christians at this forum. Keeping in mind that they prostrate before the same God as Christians, will an observant Jew or devout Muslim be invited into a Heaven?

Thanks

If a person having recieved the Message of Jesus, then decided to reject it as being false, rejecting the atonement of Jesus. That person will not have eternity with God.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

As for the other questions:

What Questions do I have?
Why is Christianity the only Abrahamic religion that believes Heaven is reserved for them?

Well as a Christian i believe that guys like Abraham and Daniel have eternity with God and they where not Christians as such. But as Paul states about Abraham:

Galatians 3
5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

It is about believing God. Abraham, Daniel, Samuel and others who where not Christians believed God. As Christians we Believe that Jesus is the Word of God. So anyone who disbelieves Jesus disbelieves God. As Christians we believe that the Gospel message is the Message of Jesus.

muslims reject the gospel message of the atonement for ones sins through Jesus.

jews also reject the same message.

Why didn't Jesus die on the cross for all mankind; doesn't God loves all men equally? (Romans 3:29)

John 3
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

The operative word is might

God sent His Son into the world so that all men could have the opportunity to be saved through believing Jesus. But those who reject the Message of the love of the truth of Jesus will not be redeemed by Him.

2 thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

Why is man punished eternally for a finite time spent sinning?

He is not punished eternally for sinning, but for rejecting the will of God in regard to sin and for rejecting the Way that God has provided for sinners (that’s everyone) to be saved from eternal punishment.

If Jesus was the Messiah why are only a handful of prophecies fulfilled? Why didn't he fulfill them ALL?

Because the acts of Jesus are not over. The prophecies of the Messiah proclaimed that he would be killed. But that then after this He would live again.

Isaiah 53
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And they made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,

Here Isaiah proclaims that the Messiah Would be killed but then goes on to say after His death that God would

Isaiah 53
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul,and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

Jesus has not fulfilled all the prophecies because He has not returned to judge the world and reign as the King of Kings.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

PS it seems i cannot reply in full to your questions in this reply because of limitations on the number of allowable quotes. therefore i an splitting my reply in two.

Answers continued:

What did Jesus do that made him different than any other prophet?

He rose from the dead.

But as to your reply to another poster. Samuel did not rise from the dead. Samuel did not come back to life in his body. Jesus did.

- He performed Miracles? So did Elijah!
- He Raised the dead? So did Elisha!

Is this a question?

- He Was punished for the sins of His people? So was Moses!

But mosses punishment did not gain them eternal life with God.

Have you ever wondered why the only synoptic gospel that doesn't fit the other three is John - and it just happens to be the one most quoted by Christians as proof of Christ's divinity?

This is not a question. Your merely making an assertion and putting a ? mark at the end.

Why is Paul so willing to denounce those that ask for proof when he himself required divine intervention to "see the light."

And

But Paul required such a sign! Had Jesus not given him the sign he would have continued to hunt and kill the Christians in the area and so how hypocritical is it of him to denounce others that request a similar miracle!

Paul never asked for proof. God chose to intervene in Paul life. But Paul never asked for this intervention, he had no say in it.

Why do Christians believe some commandments are relevant and others are not? You no longer have to keep the Sabbath holy, but you DO have to void lust?
Why do Christians no longer follow the 613 Commandments when it clearly says "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31)

Why ask this question? When so many different traditions teach so many different things. You are stepping away from asking scripture based questions to asking questions on the varied teachings of different religious organizations.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Martin W.]

I attended a local christian outreach program and had the chance to ask some questions to some local Christians. Here is what I concluded:
- You must believe in Christ
- You must believe he died for your sins
- You must believe he was God.
That seemed easy enough, but when I asked them, "Will observant Jews and Muslims sit with God in heaven?" many of them found it hard to say no.

So now I pose my question to the Educated Christians at this forum. Keeping in mind that they prostrate before the same God as Christians, will an observant Jew or devout Muslim be invited into a Heaven?

Thanks

Isick
Ask yourself these questions:

Does God have a Son?
Is it necessary to believe that?
If you deny The Son , does that mean you deny The father also?
Is belief in The Son of God necessary for salvation?
Do Muslims say boldly "God has no Son" ?
Are the words "God has no Son" prominently displayed inside Mosques?
Is Allah an idol (meaning "God is one") selected from 365 idols from a temple in the Arabian Desert?

Work thru those questions and you will have your answers.

 

[kestrel]

My opinion? No sir. Absolutely not. It's what Christ and his Apostles taught. Plain, simple, unambiguous and explicit.

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Act 4:11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.
Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Please do not "sir" me. It is still your opinion. As I presume you to know, there are many ways to interpret those verses, and not only by fringe movements, but even by the most conservative Catholics, to use an example.

Is Allah an idol (meaning "God is one") selected from 365 idols from a temple in the Arabian Desert?

Work thru those questions and you will have your answers.

Allah is the word used in Arabic Bibles to mean God, believe it or not.

but the majority of the Bible (NT) was written by Paul

How do you know that?

 

[Martin W.]

Allah is the word used in Arabic Bibles to mean God, believe it or not.

You cannot reconcile the Jewish/Christian God of the bible with the Islamic god allah.

1400 years ago in The Arabian Desert they had a god for every day of the year. These idols were arranged in a circle inside the temple and the appropriate one was chosen daily.

One of those carved idols was named allah and had the inscription "there is no god but Allah". Because of the complications of having so many idols they selected the allah one and discarded the other 364.

To this day "Allah Akbar" (Allah is the Greatest) is chanted in Islam. (Meaning greatest of the 365 Idols).

Most people (in modern day) do not know the origins of allah , including muslims.

Our bibles tell us God has a Son , his name is Jesus Christ . The bible also tells us the name Jesus Christ is the greatest Name on earth and in Heaven. No other name is given whereby men can be saved. The name allah will save no one. Do not be fooled.

 

[Martin W.]

One of those carved idols was named allah

I am going to take this a bit deeper , if you are not able to grasp my point , I apologize .

It begs the question .... "can a carved (wooden) idol properly represent god (allah) .... ??

Here are a couple of direct quotes from Islam doctrine , make note of the belief that even trees (carved idols) contain the soul of god ......

Quote from Islam
"Islamic doctrine goes farther than the other great religions for it proclaims the presence of the soul, perhaps minute but nevertheless existing in an embryonic state in all existence in matter, in animals, trees, and space itself. Every individual, every molecule, every atom has its own spiritual relationship with the All-Powerful Soul of God ...........

............. Soul is present in atoms, molecules, plants, animals, humans and in space. Human beings are composed of billions of atoms and Islam teaches us that the soul is present in each and every atom. In order to develop one's inner self, it is necessary to awaken the soul by invoking Allah on a continual basis. These spiritual exercises create an inner awakening and lead to the development of the total human potential.
end quote from Islam


A couple of hours studying Islam , along with some deep thinking , can unmask the origins of this teaching.

Do not bow to false gods.

Best regards.
Martin W.

 

[kestrel]

You cannot reconcile the Jewish/Christian God of the bible with the Islamic god allah.

1400 years ago in The Arabian Desert they had a god for every day of the year. These idols were arranged in a circle inside the temple and the appropriate one was chosen daily.

One of those carved idols was named allah and had the inscription "there is no god but Allah". Because of the complications of having so many idols they selected the allah one and discarded the other 364.

To this day "Allah Akbar" (Allah is the Greatest) is chanted in Islam. (Meaning greatest of the 365 Idols).

Most people (in modern day) do not know the origins of allah , including muslims.

Our bibles tell us God has a Son , his name is Jesus Christ . The bible also tells us the name Jesus Christ is the greatest Name on earth and in Heaven. No other name is given whereby men can be saved. The name allah will save no one. Do not be fooled.

It is indeed true that neither Islam nor Judaism, recognize Jesus as God. It is indeed true that historically the Arabs were poly-theists. And yet that is throughly rejected through-out the Koran, which I have read.

"Because of the complications of having so many idols they selected the allah one and discarded the other 364." <- That seems an unlikely motivation; the Indians have many more gods and they do not seem to find it that complicated.

My point here is not to affirm that Muslim are saved; rather that I do not presume to know the spiritual state of any individual and that there are indeed many differing opinions among Christians about the possibility of salvation of those who have not known Christ.

As for the various opinions among Christians, here are a couple of links

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_savn.htm

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0302fea3.asp[

 

[Isick]

Adstar, I appreciate you taking time out to answer some of my questions and I greatly enjoyed reading your insight.

In regards to my last question - the one about the 613 commandments and why Christians do not follow them - I still wonder what your reasoning is. If it is in the New Testament, "Uphold the Law" why does no Christian obey? Christians have no problem taking literally the other commands like "Jesus is your only way into heaven", so why the sudden change of heart when it comes to this command?

If you believe some verses are non negotiable then you must believe ALL of them are, you cannot arbitrarily pick and chose which are right and which are not. If you do, you cannot say with any certainty that someone else who follows a different religion IS or IS NOT going to heaven.

Would you agree?


Martin, I have answered those questions as God has revealed to me... I do not see how answering them points me any closer towards becoming a Christian.
But I will disagree with you in that you CAN reconcile the Islamic God (Allah) with the Judeo-Christian God and this is because they all pray to the God of Abraham - it is the SAME God. Having read the Qur'an I can say with first hand experience, that Islam is extremely homogeneous with the beliefs of Judaism and Christianity and I question why you think they are not...


Kestrel, that is a very wise and level headed line of thinking. If Jesus died for man then the decision of who is worthy and who is not is a judgment only He can make.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

If Jesus died for man then the decision of who is worthy and who is not is a judgment only He can make.

I'll give you a high five on that one.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Kestrel, that is a very wise and level headed line of thinking. If Jesus died for man then the decision of who is worthy and who is not is a judgment only He can make.

The thing is that NO one is worthy of God's love or forgiveness; it's ALL by the grace of God. He doesn't save anyone because that person is worthy. He saves them depite the fact that they are NOT worthy. I am forgiven by the grace of God, cleansed by the power of the Saviour's blood, and I'm indwelt by His Holy Spirit. I deserved none of that.

 

[rob]

I attended a local christian outreach program and had the chance to ask some questions to some local Christians. Here is what I concluded:
- You must believe in Christ
- You must believe he died for your sins
- You must believe he was God.
That seemed easy enough, but when I asked them, "Will observant Jews and Muslims sit with God in heaven?" many of them found it hard to say no.

So now I pose my question to the Educated Christians at this forum. Keeping in mind that they prostrate before the same God as Christians, will an observant Jew or devout Muslim be invited into a Heaven?

Thanks

The final destination of the believer is not heaven, a place, rather, The New Jerusalem is a living composition of all the saints (believers) redeemed by God throughout all generations. It is the bride of Christ
as His counterpart (John 3:29) and the holy city of God as His habitation, His tabernacle (v. 3). This is the heavenly Jerusalem (Heb. 12:22), which God has prepared for us and which Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob long after (Heb. 11:10, 16). This is also the Jerusalem which is above and which is our mother (Gal. 4:26). As the bride of Christ, the New Jerusalem comes out of Christ, her Husband, and becomes His counterpart, just as Eve came out of Adam, her husband and became her counterpart (Gen. 2:24).

Jesus said, "Truly truly, I say to you, He who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life (the life of God), and does not come into judgment but has passed out of death into life. (John 5:24).
In order for any man to receive eternal life, he must come to Christ, and believe into Him, no matter whether it be Jews, Muslims or even professed christians. (John 6:40).

 

[Isick]

The final destination of the believer is not heaven, a place, rather, The New Jerusalem is a living composition of all the saints (believers) redeemed by God throughout all generations. It is the bride of Christ
as His counterpart (John 3:29) and the holy city of God as His habitation, His tabernacle (v. 3). This is the heavenly Jerusalem (Heb. 12:22), which God has prepared for us and which Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob long after (Heb. 11:10, 16). This is also the Jerusalem which is above and which is our mother (Gal. 4:26). As the bride of Christ, the New Jerusalem comes out of Christ, her Husband, and becomes His counterpart, just as Eve came out of Adam, her husband and became her counterpart (Gen. 2:24).

Jesus said, "Truly truly, I say to you, He who hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life (the life of God), and does not come into judgment but has passed out of death into life. (John 5:24).
In order for any man to receive eternal life, he must come to Christ, and believe into Him, no matter whether it be Jews, Muslims or even professed christians. (John 6:40).

Does it bother you that you do not quote God's word, but rather the word of man (the followers of Christ)? You make claims as to the destination of man, but cite only the word of man as proof; for the New Testament is not the Word of God. If you believe Jesus is the Word then you must accept the New Testament is mortal man's recantation of the life of the Word - written by apostles not prophets.

It is God's words and His will that no creation of His be forgotten.
(Deuteronomy 4:30) When you are distressed, and all these things happen upon you in the end of days, then you will return to the Lord your God and obey Him.
(Deuteronomy 4:31) For the Lord your God is a merciful God; He will not let you loose or destroy you; neither will He forget the covenant of your fathers, which He swore to them.

 

[rob]

Does it bother you that you do not quote God's word, but rather the word of man (the followers of Christ)? You make claims as to the destination of man, but cite only the word of man as proof; for the New Testament is not the Word of God. If you believe Jesus is the Word then you must accept the New Testament is mortal man's recantation of the life of the Word - written by apostles not prophets.

It is God's words and His will that no creation of His be forgotten.
(Deuteronomy 4:30) When you are distressed, and all these things happen upon you in the end of days, then you will return to the Lord your God and obey Him.
(Deuteronomy 4:31) For the Lord your God is a merciful God; He will not let you loose or destroy you; neither will He forget the covenant of your fathers, which He swore to them.

Isik, you are free to reject the fact that the New Testament is God's Word, but for those who believe it is precious. So I will continue to quote it.
Now, should you not agree with the content of my post, then maybe you could repudiate it and give us what you purport to be the truth, as that would be genuine fellowship?
Thanks Isik!