What Happened To Cain?

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Paul

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Okay.....so let's see if I understand this right. You are saying that those trees are really not trees but men. So, what you are saying is that God is instructing Adam and Eve that they can have sex with all the men in the garden except the one man that is standing in the middle of the garden? I thought God is in favor of one man - one woman concept and not into orgies. This is the first I heard.

Right now, I'm still stuck on this first one and I'm having trouble going past it. In order for me to understand the rest of what you say, I first need to understand why God told Adam and Eve that they can have sex with all those men except for the one in the middle of the garden. In the first place, isn't God against the act of homosexuality? Because this instruction was not just given to Eve, it was also given to Adam.

No, God commanded, "Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Satan, and The Tree of Life, Christ, were in the center of the garden. The other trees were fruit trees.

Eve quoted Him saying, "Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Yes, God against the act of homosexuality, and Yes, Adam partook also. Had God said anything against the act of homosexuality yet?
 

Paul

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OK, let's take a look at this together since you don't want to read the link I posted. You might need to think a little, sorry.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

Why could they eat of some trees but not of the ones in the center of the garden? Answer: those were not trees, often in Scripture men are described as trees.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch (H5060) it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

They knew what sexual intercourse was and they knew what those "parts" were for so they tried to cover them with leaves..

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled (H5377) me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed (H2233) and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception (H2032) ; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

H5060
נגע
nâga‛
naw-gah'
A primitive root; properly to touch, that is, lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphemistically, to lie with a woman) ;

H5377
נשׁא
nâshâ'
naw-shaw'
A primitive root; to lead astray, that is, (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce: - beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled (G1818) Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

G1818
ἐξαπατάω
exapataō
ex-ap-at-ah'-o
From G1537 and G538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive.


Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Gen 4:2 And she again (H3254) bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

H3254
יסף
yâsaph
yaw-saf'
A primitive root; to add or augment (often adverbially to continue to do a thing)

Eve continued in labor and bore Abel. Cain and Abel were twins, they had the same mother but different fathers.

Now let's look at the parable of the wheat and tares: (Seed here is σπέρμα = SPERMA, I hope you know what that is)

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Later Christ explains the parable to the twelve:

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

This was the sin in the garden of Eden

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


The Kenite are the children of Cain, and they are still with us today: some are running our schools, some are running our government, some our finances, and some are preaching in our churches and editing your Bible.

The words below from Mat 13: 38-39, are Christ's words, by the way.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
 

JohnDB

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Y'all never got the memo, right?
Genesis is a metaphor?
The Garden is the human body - a tree turned upside down - the nervous system ---in the middle of the Garden
are the reproductive organs ---taste of the animalistic way of procreating and bingo - lose your ticket to the divine way of procreation - -the spiritual realm has now been placed in the backseat and the 3rd dimension ways take shotgun.

I know , now you all hate me bec I introduced a new way to view something you have believed the interpretation of for 50 years...yawn.


rolleyes.gif
laugh.gif


OK...so who gets the time out for this one?

Me or thee?
 

Selene

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No, God commanded, "Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Satan, and The Tree of Life, Christ, were in the center of the garden. The other trees were fruit trees.

Eve quoted Him saying, "Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Yes, God against the act of homosexuality, and Yes, Adam partook also. Had God said anything against the act of homosexuality yet?

I'm still confused. You say that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is Satan and the tree of life is Christ. But Adam and Eve can also eat from the tree life. If the tree of life is a man just like the tree of knowledge of good and evil is a man, why would God allow Adam and Eve to have sex with Christ. According to the Bible, the only tree that Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat was the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The words below from Mat 13: 38-39, are Christ's words, by the way.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Don't you think that the children of the devil are those who do evil simply because they follow the devil's ways rather than the devil having sex with their mothers?
 

Paul

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I'm still confused. You say that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is Satan and the tree of life is Christ. But Adam and Eve can also eat from the tree life. If the tree of life is a man just like the tree of knowledge of good and evil is a man, why would God allow Adam and Eve to have sex with Christ. According to the Bible, the only tree that Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat was the tree of knowledge of good and evil.



Don't you think that the children of the devil are those who do evil simply because they follow the devil's ways rather than the devil having sex with their mothers?


Sorry you are confused, just but it on a shelf for now, maybe someday your eyes will be opened and you will see the deeper truths in Scripture.
 

Doppleganger

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Can I throw a new twist at this discussion.

This is only a brief synopsis of some of the issues involved ....
My next post will explain my position better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain

In Judaism, the mark is not a punishment but a sign of God's mercy. When Cain was sentenced to be a wanderer he did not dispute the punishment but only begged that the terms of his sentence be altered slightly, protesting "Whoever meets me will kill me!" For unspecified reasons, God agrees to this request. He puts the mark on Cain as a sign to others that Cain should not be killed until he has had seven generations of children. Lamech, Cain's descendant, refers poetically to the "mark of Cain" in Genesis 4:19-24, in a passage which has been subject to several interpretations.

Despite these later traditional beliefs of perpetual wandering, according to the earlier Book of Jubilees (chapter 4) Cain settled down, marrying his sister, Awan, resulting in his first son, Enoch (considered to be different from the more famous Enoch), approximately 196 years after the creation of Adam. Cain then established the first city, naming it after his son, built a house, and lived there until it collapsed on him, killing him in the same year that Adam died.

In Judaism, the mark is not a punishment but a sign of God's mercy. When Cain was sentenced to be a wanderer he did not dispute the punishment but only begged that the terms of his sentence be altered slightly, protesting "Whoever meets me will kill me!" For unspecified reasons, God agrees to this request. He puts the mark on Cain as a sign to others that Cain should not be killed until he has had seven generations of children. Lamech, Cain's descendant, refers poetically to the "mark of Cain" in Genesis 4:19-24, in a passage which has been subject to several interpretations.

HebraicLiteratureTranslationsFromTheTalmudMidrashimKabbala_.htm
Cain had robbed the twin sister of Abel
Yalkut Chadash, fol. 127, col. 3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain

In the Greek New Testament, Cain is referred to as Qayin. In at least one translation this is rendered "from the evil one", while others have "of the evil one." Some interpreters take this to mean that Cain was literally the son of the serpent in the Garden of Eden. A parallel idea can be found in Jewish tradition, that the serpent (Hebrew nahash) from the Garden of Eden was father to firstborn Cain.

A few scholars suggest the pericope may have been based on a Sumerian story representing the conflict between nomadic shepherds and settled farmers. Others think that it may refer to the days in which agriculture began to replace the ways of the hunter-gatherers.

The Midrash and the Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan both record that the real motive involved the desire of women. According to Midrashic tradition, Cain and Abel each had twin sisters, whom they were to marry. The Midrash records that Abel's promised wife was the more beautiful. Cain would not consent to this arrangement. Adam proposed to refer the question to God by means of a sacrifice. God rejected Cain's sacrifice, signifying His disapproval of his marriage with Aclima, and Cain slew his brother in a fit of jealousy.

The Bible makes reference on several occasions to Kenites, who, in the Hebrew, are referred to as Qayin, i.e. in a highly cognate manner to Cain (Qayin). Some therefore believe that the Mark of Cain referred originally to some very identifying mark of the Kenite tribe, such as red hair, or a ritual tattoo of some kind, which was transferred to Cain as the tribe's eponym. The mark is said to afford Cain some form of protection, in that harming Cain involved the harm being returned sevenfold. This is hence seen as some sort of protection that membership of the tribe offered, in a form such as the entire tribe attacking an individual who harms just one of their number.

Thomas Bulfinch Bulfinch's Mythology: The Age of Fable; or Stories of Gods and Heroes
CHAPTER XXXV. ORIGIN OF MYTHOLOGY– STATUES OF GODS AND GODDESSES– POETS OF MYTHOLOGY. ORIGIN OF MYTHOLOGY.

HAVING reached the close of our series of stories of Pagan mythology, an inquiry suggests itself. “Whence came these stories? Have they a foundation in truth, or are they simply dreams of the imagination?” Philosophers have suggested various theories of the subject; and

1. The Scriptural theory; according to which all mythological legends are derived from the narratives of Scriptures, though the real facts have been disguised and altered. Thus Deucalion is only another name for Noah, Hercules for Samson, Arion for Jonah, etc. Sir Walter Raleigh, in his “History of the World,” says, “Jubal, Tubal, and Tubal–Cain were Mercury, Vulcan, and Apollo, inventors of Pasturage, Smithing, and Music. The Dragon which kept the golden apples was the serpent that beguiled Eve. Nimrod’s tower was the attempt of the Giants against Heaven.”

2. The Historical theory; according to which all the persons mentioned in mythology were once real human beings, and the legends and fabulous traditions relating to them are merely the additions and embellishments of later times. ... Cadmus, who, the legend says, sowed the earth with dragon’s teeth, from which sprang a crop of armed men, was in fact an emigrant from Phoenicia, and brought with him into Greece the knowledge of the letters of the alphabet, which be taught to the natives. From these rudiments of learning sprung civilization, which the poets have always been prone to describe as a deterioration of man’s first estate, the Golden Age of innocence and simplicity.


Genesis Of The Grail Kings
An interesting aspect of the word 'kingship' is that it was identical with kinship - and kin means 'blood-relative'. In its original form kinship was kainship ... It was from Eve's son Cain, whose recorded successors (although given little space in the Old Testament) were [some of] the first great kings of Mesopotamia and Egypt.

Tthe book of Genesis ... confirms how Eve told Adam that Cain's father was the Lord, who was of course Enki the Archetype. Even outside the Bible, the writings of the Hebrew Talmud and Midrash make it quite plain that Cain was not the son of Adam.

So what else is wrongly taught about this particular aspect of history? The book of Genesis (in its English translated form) tells us that Cain was 'a tiller of the ground' - but this is not what the original texts say at all. What they say is that Cain had 'dominion over the earth', which is a rather different matter when considering his kingly status.

http://en.rodovid.org/wk/Person:32371
The Marking of Cain
The slaying of his brother Abel is mentioned in Zoroastrian tradition as being rage based anger ... The question on whether or not this mark was carried over to his offspring is not clear. However, what is clear through the genealogies is that the offspring of Cain were not shunned by his brothers and in fact intermarried freely within the lineages of his brothers.

With regard to red hair as the Mark of Cain. Genetic studies have shown that red hair originated in the region of Scythia approximately 20,000 years ago. Scientists speculate that it could be a hold over genetic remnant introduced into the lineage of Homo Sapiens Sapiens through intermarriage with Homo Sapiens Neanderthalis. In folklore and tradition redheads have been associates with fiery natures and uncontrolled rage. Their nickname "The Dog headed men" have been linked with Wolves who have been shown to have the same genetic mutation which give them a red coat. Science shows that among wolves the intensity of red is associated with increased release of adrenaline. The coats of purebred wolves raised in captivity will gradually fade to blonde, but if subjected again to conditions that spur adrenaline production, the coats will again redden within a few generations.

Connections to King Scorpion
The status of king Scorpion at Hierakonpolis is hard to explain because the writing of his royal name and titulary (rosette plus name instead of name within the serekh) and the discovery of his macehead at Nekhen do not indicate a Hierakonpolite origin for Scorpion. Iry Hor had an unusual royal name designation too as did Narmer. It is possible that Scorpion was a roughly contemporary of Hor-Ka, and that the former ruled in the region of Nekhen. Before the rule of Scorpion, ... local chieftains [ruled identified by] clan symbols, as follows: Oryx [antelope], Shell, Fish, Elephant, Bull, Stork.
 

Doppleganger

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Generally, I would give Tons of Scripture here to back up my points ...
But since were dealing with what we don't know or what is not obvious ...

In Carpenter's Pagan Religions & Christian Creeds, he divides all pre-adamite religions into 3 categories - ancestor worshippers, spring & fall havest vegetation worshippers & fertility worshippers. When Adam Fell, into this category people we also divided by Adamic lines, Kenite lines and all other 6 day creations of man. The early forms of worship often overlaped. Early tribal divisions where created by language, geography & race. Clans often used emblems to identify themselves.

In .... The Lists of Antediluvian Kings: A Coded Document by Dr. Patrice Guinard ... Berossus states
In The Legend of Adapa (attested before 1500 [size="-1"]B.C.[/size]), Uanna, Hellenized as Oannes by Berossus and given the epithet Adapa ("The Wise"), appears in the reign of A-lulim, the first antediluvian king in the form of a man clothed to resemble a fish. He is the first of the apkallu (= AB.GAL in Sumerian), i.e. the seven sages sent by Ea to civilize human beings. Berossus relates the myth of Oannes (ca. 4500-4000 [size="-1"]B.C.[/size]), a civilizing hero who ostensibly emerged from the waters of the Persian Gulf to give birth to Sumerian culture (writing, sciences, agriculture, city-dwelling).

Kain had 7 sons, They settled to the east. The 1st city Enoch or Erich/Erech was the beginning of his empire. Most the the early descendants of asiatic/oriental birth. India, Mongolia, SE Asia, North & South Chinese, Koreans & Japanese.

1 - Eridu ... A-lulim
2 - Eridu ... Alalgar
3 - Bad-tibira ... En-men-lu-Anna
4 - Bad-tibira ... En-men-gal-Anna
5 - Bad-tibira ... Dumu-zi
6 - Larak ... En-sipa-zi-Anna
7 - Sippar ... En-men-dur-Anna
8 - Shuruppak ... Ubar-Tutu

Berossus, the Hellenized Chaldean philosopher/astrologer, proposes in his Babyloniaca (in the first section of Book II) a second list of antediluvian kings who reigned after the appearance of Oannes, this time including ten sovereigns in four cities . Berossus borrowed his narrative from the archives of Babylonia-Borsippa, and these archives themselves, with regard to the Creation and the first ages of the world, copied revelations ostensibly inscribed on tablets by Oannes, the first fish-man and "the inventor of letters, sciences and arts, the founder of laws, cities and all civilization. " (Joseph Bidez, "Les écoles chaldéennes sous Alexandre et les Séleucides," in Mélanges Capart, Brussels, 1935, p. 50).

1 - Babylone ... Alôros (Aloros) = 1 A-lulim
2 - Babylone ... Alaparos = 2 Alalgar
3 - Pautibiblon ... Amêlôn (Amelon) = 3 En-men-lu-Anna
4 - Pautibiblon ... Ammenôn (Ammenon) = 4 En-men-gal-Anna
5 - Pautibiblon ... Megalaros (Amegalaros)
6 - Pautibiblon ... Daônos ou Daôs (Daonos) = 5 Dumu-zi
7 - Pautibiblon ... Euedôrachos (Euedorachos) = 7 En-men-dur-Anna
8 - Larak ... Amempsinos = 6 En-sipa-zi-Anna
9 - Larak ... Opartes (Otiartes) = 8 Ubar-Tutu
10 - Shuruppak ... Xisouthros

We Know Xisouthros was Decalion of the Greeks, Ziusudra of the Sumerians, as well as Manu according to the India's. According to Indian tradition Manu had 3 sons known as Shemi, Chama & Pra-Jepta. that sound alot like Shem, Ham & Japheth. They were also known as Brahma, Vishnu & Shiiva. Many Scholars believe Jupter [Ia Pater] are one and the same as Japheth. Which maybe why The sons of Noah are listed the way they are in Genesis. Before the Flood, these ancestors with extended lives, where the men of renown and gods of old. The birth of Canaan threw a wrench into the allotted divisions of the sons of Noah. Ham south, Shem the middle and Japheth north from the straits of gibralter to the persian gulf. This resulted in conflicts that centered itself in the holy land.

Legends Of Babylon And Egypt, by Leonard W. King
Though the resemblance of early Sumerian tradition to that of the Hebrews is striking, it furnishes a still closer parallel to the summaries preserved from the history of Berossus. The sources of Berossus had inevitably been semitized by Babylon; but two of his three Antediluvian cities find their place among the five of primitive Sumerian belief, and two of his ten Antediluvian kings rejoin their Sumerian prototypes. Moreover, the recorded ages of Sumerian and Hebrew patriarchs are strangely alike. It may be added that in Egypt a new fragment of the Palermo Stele has enabled us to verify, by a very similar comparison, the accuracy of Manetho's sources for his prehistoric period, while at the same time it demonstrates the way in which possible inaccuracies in his system, deduced from independent evidence, may have arisen in remote antiquity. It is clear that both Hebrew and Hellenistic traditions were modelled on very early lines.

Thus our new material enables us to check the age, and in some measure the accuracy, of the traditions concerning the dawn of history which the Greeks reproduced from native sources, both in Babylonia and Egypt, after the conquests of Alexander had brought the Near East within the range of their intimate acquaintance. The third body of tradition, that of the Hebrews, though unbacked by the prestige of secular achievement, has, through incorporation in the canons of two great religious systems, acquired an authority which the others have not enjoyed.

The Sons of Adam, Kain & 6th day man competed, fought against each other, and at times established close ties. For several 100 yrs Cain & his decendants where adamic. Latter on mythology shows that Kain never refers to his father as Adam, but regrads his father as the snake. Deia fies himself as god, and creates different means to subject people to his will. There was clearly more than one steam of knowledge passed down to us. But it essentially falls into 2 categories, Adamic [Hebrew], Kainetic [Paganistic].

Don't Try and read into the Bible more than it says, but know this ... it is saying more than it says. It amazes me just how dead on the word of god is. I'm Tired all stop here ...
 

Templar81

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I know this is going off slightly but I'd like to know why God was pleased with Abel's offering but not Cain''s.
 

Paul

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Can I throw a new twist at this discussion.

This is only a brief synopsis of some of the issues involved ....
My next post will explain my position better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain

In Judaism, the mark is not a punishment but a sign of God's mercy. When Cain was sentenced to be a wanderer he did not dispute the punishment but only begged that the terms of his sentence be altered slightly, protesting "Whoever meets me will kill me!" For unspecified reasons, God agrees to this request. He puts the mark on Cain as a sign to others that Cain should not be killed until he has had seven generations of children. Lamech, Cain's descendant, refers poetically to the "mark of Cain" in Genesis 4:19-24, in a passage which has been subject to several interpretations.

I stopped reading the wiki article here because it is all ready in error. Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis does not say “that Cain should not be killed until he has had seven generations of children”

Be careful when you read "wikipedia." Anyone can write those articles.

.... I'm Tired all stop here ...
[/i]

This is the best part of the whole post.
 

Doppleganger

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I stopped reading the wiki article here because it is all ready in error. Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis does not say “that Cain should not be killed until he has had seven generations of children” Be careful when you read "wikipedia." Anyone can write those articles.

1st of all I don't believe everything I read. 2ndly Cain had 7 sons. there's a hebrew saying the 7th son of a 7th son. Theres a reason for this. Numbers in generations are significant. I have no prob sorting the wheat from the chaff. Berossus states there were 2 kingships going on in mesopotamia. Centered in the South at Sumer and Central in Babylon. Theres was actually a 3rd competitor in the North at Ninevah. 8 kings rule the Isin Dynasty while 10 rule in Babylon. These are the 2 geneologies spoken of in genesis. Earliest civilization spang up in these regions of high agricultural productive. The Nile & Meso regions. Both Cain and Adam were Storm Gods, and tillers of the ground. Early Man who could harness the greatest supply of food, could feed more people and more troops. Hence, this is why Ares, Tiu, Mars, Marduk, Mithra, Cain were war & agriculture based gods. Abel and his descendants were shepards, the ones who knew the mysteries of stars. Abel was the 1st Osiris, Aescilupius, Messiah like figure who's protection was procured by the sacrifice of a lamb. As opposed to the a Grain offering, Or an Oblation poured out to the rising or setting sun, or the sacrifice of a pig. Which takes us back to Genesis and the Reasons for Conflict. (Instead of Understanding) ...
 

Paul

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Earliest civilization spang up in these regions of high agricultural productive. The Nile & Meso regions. Both Cain and Adam were Storm Gods, and tillers of the ground. Early Man who could harness the greatest supply of food, could feed more people and more troops. Hence, this is why Ares, Tiu, Mares, Mithra, Cain were war & agriculture based gods. Abel and his descendants were shepards, the ones who knew the mysteries of stars. Abel was the 1st Osiris, Aescilopius, Messiah like figure who's protection was procured by the sacrifice of a lamb. As opposed to the a Grain offering. Which takes us back to Genesis and the Reasons for Conflict. (Instead of Understanding) ...

Cain and his seed are no longer able to be farmers, the ground is cursed to them.

Gen 4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
Gen 4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
Gen 4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
 

Doppleganger

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Yes, which is why you have these Rudy White looking people are ruling over a dark (haired-complexion) race, the Sumerians. Which is why Tribes and Families like Esau, some of the Cananites, Nimrod, the Kenites in Midian (Medina) have inherited some of the most unproductive land. Having to resort at times to war and trade.
 

JohnDB

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I know this is going off slightly but I'd like to know why God was pleased with Abel's offering but not Cain''s.

It wasn't until after the flood that people started eating meat. So when Able raised flocks it had to be for wool and milk production. The wool would be used for clothing which would be the primary reason the flocks would even be kept.

At the various times when the people would meet God. (the offering was brought at a pre-set time) Able killed his best wool producing sheep and brought God the best parts of that sheep.(People would wear their best clothes made by the finest wool from the best sheep) A fancy way (but very final) of saying that Abel couldn't clothe them well enough. God would have to do it. And indeed today Christ's blood covers us in atonement.

Cain on the other hand had the premier Job of farming. He didn't bring all of the produce of the field...he only brought some. There was nothing wrong with that...it was what was expected. But...if he had brought all we wouldn't be working like we are today.


 

brionne

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It has just occoured to me that if Cain and Abel were born outside of the Garden of Eden then they might not be Adam and Eve's first children.

Genesis 3:16
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

This implies that Eve probably had other children in the garden without pain. Then there is the bit about her desire being for her husband, so does that mean that she wasn't always faithful to Adam before the fall?

If they had children in the garden of eden, those children would have been born perfect and without sin. The account in genesis does not mention anything about others eating from the tree of knowledge so if they had children then none of them ate from the tree and therefore they would have remained without sin and as a result would have lived forever.

im sure if there were some 6,000 odd year old people walking around, we'd know about it.

I know this is going off slightly but I'd like to know why God was pleased with Abel's offering but not Cain''s.

Abel gave his gift to God with the right motive...he loved God and wanted to please him because he had a righteous disposition. Cain on the other hand lived with hatred in his heart and because of that, the gift Cain gave was not accepted by God. God even told him "turn to doing good and there will be a reward" thus showing that Cain was not a righteous person.

John explains the situation in 1John 3:11-12
"For this is the message which YOU have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another; 12 not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother [were] righteous"
 

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I know this is going off slightly but I'd like to know why God was pleased with Abel's offering but not Cain''s.

God requires BLOOD to pay for sin.

Not nuts and berries.

The soul that sins shall die (lose life).
The life is in the blood.
To escape the penalty, substitute blood can be offered instead.

There is something deeply spiritual about the whole thing.

Pagan religions sense it and try to employ the sacrifice, albeit without effect since it isn't applied properly.
Demonic spirits are said to complain that the blood of Christ is warm and that it covers the person they want to enslave....as a result they can't get through it.
I haven't 'seen' this myself yet, but the behavior of these creatures concerning the blood indicates that a great deal is going on that humans don't perceive.

The sacrifice of Abel involved the shedding of blood and that's why his sacrifice was acceptable to God and Cain's was not.

BTW it wasn't necessary for Cain to get all bent out of shape about it. The nature of the sacrifice suggests that Cain could have purchased the proper animal from his brother in exchange for grain. In that event Cain's sacrifice would have been accepted as well.

It begs the question of whether trade would have resolved the situation rather than murder.
 

242006

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Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.


Gee -- it looks pretty simple to me. The woman already had her name when Adam first had sex with her.

How did she get her name??



Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.


The woman was already pregnant when Adam first had sex with her.

 

brionne

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Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.


Gee -- it looks pretty simple to me. The woman already had her name when Adam first had sex with her.

How did she get her name??



Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.


The woman was already pregnant when Adam first had sex with her.



Its verses like this which should be compared to other translations.




New International Version: Adam [sup][a][/sup] named his wife Eve, [sup][b][/sup] because she would become the mother of all the living."

New International Readers Version "Adam named his wife Eve. She would become the mother of every living person."

Todays New international Version: "Adam [sup][a][/sup] named his wife Eve, [sup][b][/sup] because she would become the mother of all the living."




If you now look at the hebrew rendering of this verse you'll notice the phrase "she becomes mother of all living one". The hebrew shows that Eve was not 'already' a mother but was to 'become' the mother of everyone.


Hebrew interlinear: "and·he-is-calling the·human name-of woman-of·him Eve that she she-becomes mother-of all-of living-one"


There is also the fact that the first mention of sexual relations between Adam and Eve occurs AFTER they leave the garden, not before.





 

Paul

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Eve was the mother of all living because through her would come Jesus Christ, and without Him no one will live.

Eve was also the mother of Cain but his father was Satan.
 
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242006

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Its verses like this which should be compared to other translations.




New International Version: Adam [sup][a][/sup] named his wife Eve, [sup][b][/sup] because she would become the mother of all the living."

New International Readers Version "Adam named his wife Eve. She would become the mother of every living person."

Todays New international Version: "Adam [sup][a][/sup] named his wife Eve, [sup][b][/sup] because she would become the mother of all the living."




If you now look at the hebrew rendering of this verse you'll notice the phrase "she becomes mother of all living one". The hebrew shows that Eve was not 'already' a mother but was to 'become' the mother of everyone.


Hebrew interlinear: "and·he-is-calling the·human name-of woman-of·him Eve that she she-becomes mother-of all-of living-one"


There is also the fact that the first mention of sexual relations between Adam and Eve occurs AFTER they leave the garden, not before.

She had sex with Satan in the Garden and conceived with Satan's child 'Cain'. That's why she was named 'Eve'.

You raise the exact reason why people should NOT use the NIV. For, who named the woman as 'Eve'?? Why, it was no other than Adam -- not God.

So, if Adam named her 'Eve' because, at some point in the future, she would have offspring, Adam would have to have obtained that information prior to naming her. Hence, continuing with such train of thought, one then has to go back to Gen. 3:15 to see where God informs them of her future offspring.

Thus, if Gen. 3:15, in the use of the word 'seed', is speaking of 'offspring', then one must also logically conclude that the Serpent [who is Satan -- Rev. 20:2], referred to as 'thy', also will have offspring. Accordingly, it is incumbent upon the NIV user to identify who, if not Cain, is Satan's offspring. What all NIV users do is deny the Serpent's Seed, which, as you can see, is a breach of proper hermeneutics.

Those that conclude that Gen. 3:20 speaks of an existing pregnancy conclude that Cain is that offspring, sired by Satan, which is verified elsewhere in scripture [Joh. 8:44, 1 Joh. 3:12, Mat. 13:36-39]. Those NIV users who say that Gen. 3:20 speaks of a future pregnancy fail in their duty to identify where in scripture Satan has offspring.

Accordingly, one can only correctly conclude that the NIV is incorrect.

Your analysis is also fatally flawed on another front in Gen. 3:16 and the word 'multiply'. if the woman is pregnant, her existing conception would be 0 [zero]. Any multiple of zero is zero. Hence, there would be no life to come from her and, thereby, no need for Adam to name her 'Eve'. God could not 'multiply' her conception if she had not already conceived.
 
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