What Heaven Won't Be Like

[Webers_Home]

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The heaven depicted in the 21st chapter of Revelation is a place where
people can be trusted to be forthcoming because there will be no dishonesty
there.

†. Rev 21:7-8 . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire
and brimstone, which is the second death.

†. Rev 21:27 . . No one who practices lying, shall ever come into the holy
city, the new Jerusalem.

One of the more common forms of dishonesty is dissembling, which can be
defined as concealing your true feelings by deliberately giving people the
impression that you feel some other way.

Here's some additional forms of dishonesty.

Whoppers
White lies
Deception
Side-stepping
Denial
Guile
Half truths
Making promises with no intention of keeping them
Slander
Pretense
Feigning innocence
Falsifying information
Putting up a front
Misleading information
Rationalizing
Embellishing
Deliberate omission of pertinent facts
Hyperbole
Semantic double speak
Insincerity
Sophistry
Spinning

If we can go by the Beatitudes, then we can safely assume that the heaven
depicted in the 21st chapter will be a place of peace and kindness; which
means there will be no cruelty of any kind; for example malicious gossip,
demeaning comments, thoughtless remarks, name-calling, toxic rejoinders,
discourtesy, chafing, quarrelling, bickering, mockery, relentless ridicule,
fault-finding, spite, carping, bullying, intimidation, wiseacre retorts,
needling, taunting, biting sarcasm, petty ill will, yelling, ugly insinuations,
cold-shouldering, calculated insults, snobbery, elitism, arrogance,
subterfuge, slander, libel, antisocial behaviors, sociopaths, crime, war,
despotism, oppression, injustice, human rights abuses, character
assassination, etc, etc, et al, and ad nauseam.

The heaven depicted in the 21st chapter of Revelation is also a place of
sexual purity.

†. Rev 21:8 . . But the vile and the sexually immoral-- their place will be in
the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

The koiné Greek word for "vile" is bdelusso (bdel-oos'-so) which essentially
means to stink; viz: disgusting.

When it comes right down to it; the heaven of Revelation 21 is not
everyone's cup of tea. Some people would be very frustrated if they couldn't
be themselves there. They'd really be out of their element.

What's it mean to be themselves? All that ugly stuff that I listed, including
the dishonesty, pretty much defines people being themselves; viz: doing
what comes natural.

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[pom2014]

Also heaven will NOT be a republic.

No one will have ANY say whatsoever in how things are done.

Everyone will have to do as told WITHOUT question or hesitation.

Ask yourselves, can you do that?

If your answer is no or maybe or well it depends; then you're going to have a problem.

It is do or die time. No holding back at that point. You are either in all the way or out all the way.

So prepare yourselves. If you find it hard to submit now, you will find it harder in Heaven.

 

[Born_Again]

If you truly live for Christ, why would have a problem abiding by His will? Isn't that what Christ wants us to do on Earth? I pray daily that His will be done. I trust my heavenly Father and want to do His will because I know His will is what is best for me. I personally look forward to living out His will, on this Earth and in heaven. Good post!

 

[Webers_Home]

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People's conduct will be the final determinant as to whether they will be
permitted to enter and/or remain in the heaven depicted in the 21st chapter
of Revelation; most especially whether they are 110% honest.

†. Rev 21:7-8 . . All liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire
and brimstone, which is the second death.

†. Rev 21:27 . . No one who practices lying, shall ever come into the holy
city, the new Jerusalem.

The trick is: the two passages above refer to an era beyond the resurrection
era. In other words: people prone to dishonesty who rise from the dead
prone to dishonesty, will be marched off to the lake of fire. But people prone
to dishonesty who rise from the dead not prone to dishonesty, will be
permitted to enter and remain in the holy city.

So; the question is: Is it possible to fix people so that those who don't always
tell the truth rise from the dead always telling the truth?

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[StanJ]

Heaven is for God. The GIFT of salvation is Eternal Life, on the NEW earth. Don't know why some call this heaven, the Bible sure doesn't.

 

[Webers_Home]

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Back in 1968, when I was a young single guy around 24 years old and living
in a cheap, one-room basement apartment in Oregon, and working as a
welder in a structural shop located in the old Kaiser ship yards across the
Columbia river in Vancouver, I had lots of time to myself to think about
things since I had no friends, nor any kind of social contact whatsoever other
than at work. I wasn't distracted with a girl friend, nor by pals and beer
buddies, nor by an obsessive hobby. It was just me, my 1961 Volkswagen,
and a 305 Honda motorcycle that I rode all over northwest Oregon.

Anyway, long story short, sometime during that era I got to thinking that
complying with God's edicts would be a whole lot easier if it came natural. I
mean, pleasing God is easy for God because pleasing Himself comes natural
to Him. So I thought to myself: if I were like God, then heaven would be in
the bag because God is faultless; ergo: I would be faultless too.

Now, I'll grant that's a pretty childish way of thinking; but just imagine my
amazement to discover that God has been thinking that very same way for
years! In other words: a portion of the plan of salvation is dedicated to
reconstructing people into what we might call chips off the olde block.

Here it is in a nutshell.

†. 1John 3:9 . . No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed
abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

For clarity's sake, I'll call "His seed" the divine nature.

†. 2Pet 1:3-5 . . His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to
life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His
own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious
and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become
partakers of the divine nature

When people rise from the dead with the divine nature, they will easily
qualify to enter the holy city depicted in the 21st chapter of Revelation.

Q: But what about their human nature? What's to be done about that.

A: There is a supernatural circumcision mentioned at Col 2:11. In a nutshell,
when Christ's believing followers die and cross over to the other side, they
shed their human nature like a dead skin and go into eternity with only the
divine nature they obtained via the Spirit birth about which Christ spoke at
John 3:3-8. In point of fact, their human nature is a dead skin even before
they depart.

†. Rom 6:3 . . Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into
Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died

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[Axehead]

Heaven is for God. The GIFT of salvation is Eternal Life, on the NEW earth. Don't know why some call this heaven, the Bible sure doesn't.

Col_1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Eph_3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

2Co_5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2Ti_4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Axehead]

-
Back in 1968, when I was a young single guy around 24 years old and living
in a cheap, one-room basement apartment in Oregon, and working as a
welder in a structural shop located in the old Kaiser ship yards across the
Columbia river in Vancouver, I had lots of time to myself to think about
things since I had no friends, nor any kind of social contact whatsoever other
than at work. I wasn't distracted with a girl friend, nor by pals and beer
buddies, nor by an obsessive hobby. It was just me, my 1961 Volkswagen,
and a 305 Honda motorcycle that I rode all over northwest Oregon.

Anyway, long story short, sometime during that era I got to thinking that
complying with God's edicts would be a whole lot easier if it came natural. I
mean, pleasing God is easy for God because pleasing Himself comes natural
to Him. So I thought to myself: if I were like God, then heaven would be in
the bag because God is faultless; ergo: I would be faultless too.

Now, I'll grant that's a pretty childish way of thinking; but just imagine my
amazement to discover that God has been thinking that very same way for
years! In other words: a portion of the plan of salvation is dedicated to
reconstructing people into what we might call chips off the olde block.

Here it is in a nutshell.

†. 1John 3:9 . . No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed
abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

For clarity's sake, I'll call "His seed" the divine nature.

†. 2Pet 1:3-5 . . His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to
life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His
own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious
and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become
partakers of the divine nature

When people rise from the dead with the divine nature, they will easily
qualify to enter the holy city depicted in the 21st chapter of Revelation.

Q: But what about their human nature? What's to be done about that.

A: There is a supernatural circumcision mentioned at Col 2:11. In a nutshell,
when Christ's believing followers die and cross over to the other side, they
shed their human nature like a dead skin and go into eternity with only the
divine nature they obtained via the Spirit birth about which Christ spoke at
John 3:3-8. In point of fact, their human nature is a dead skin even before
they depart.

†. Rom 6:3 . . Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into
Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died

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Your "human nature" is your soul. Your mind, will and emotions...It makes up your personality which is saved, also.

1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[pom2014]

Col_1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Eph_3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

2Co_5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2Ti_4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

It is clear in Revelation alone that the New Heaven and the New Earth will be the same realm. We will have both.

But some would still prefer to have separations as they like walled gardens. Keeps the rabble out.

 

[Webers_Home]

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1Th_5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God
your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming
of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paul's prayer contains a time element. In other words, it only applies up to
the time of the rapture; and even then it only applies to people who are
alive when the rapture takes place. The folk to whom Paul panned his letter
are long gone so his prayer no longer applies to them.

According to John 3:3-8, Christ's believing followers are given another spirit
to supersede the one they have now. And according to 1Cor 15:35-53
Christ's believing followers will also be given another body to supersede the
one they have now.

The Greek word for "soul" is very similar in meaning to the Greek word for
"spirit" except that "soul" refers a tad more to one's creature existence.

If you seriously hoped to use 1Thes 5:23 to invalidate the Spirit-birth about
which Christ spoke at John 3:3-8, and the new body about which Paul
wrote at 1Cor 15:35-53, and the divine nature about which Peter wrote at
2Pet 1:3-5, I'm afraid you've made a terrible mistake.

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[Webers_Home]

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The Greek word for "soul" is very similar in meaning to the Greek word for
"spirit" except that "soul" refers a tad more to one's creature
existence.

I should probably clarify that statement a little.

†. 1Pet 1:22a . . Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth
through the Spirit

The grammatical tense of the words "have purified" is past rather than
future. So it isn't "when" you purify your souls. In other words, the souls of
the Christians to whom Peter penned his epistle were already purified before
it arrived; and they did it not by means of a denominational affiliation; but
rather, by obeying the truth; and their obedience was "through the Spirit"
rather than through human artifice.

The Greek word for "soul" in Peter's passage, as well as in 1Thes 5:23. Is
very similar in meaning to the Greek word for "spirit" except that "soul"
refers a tad more to one's creature existence. In other words: soul speaks of
humanity's creation from the dust of the earth; and into whose body God
aspirated the breath of life.

The Hebrew word for "soul" is nephesh; which isn't limited to human life.
Several varieties of created life are categorized as nephesh in the book of
Genesis; and in point of fact, all life that was aboard Noah's ark, including
human life, is categorized as nephesh.

In reality: human souls are little more than organic primates whose minds
are produced by a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within their
bony little skulls— and not even all three of those pounds are devoted to
cognitive processes.

The Greek word for "purified" in 1Pet 1:21a is hagnizo (hag-nid'-zo) which
speaks of a peculiar kind of physical hygiene; for example:

†. John 15:3 . . Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken
unto you.

†. Heb 10:22 . . Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith,
having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed
with pure water.

In other words: people whose organic human bodies have not yet undergone
the peculiar kind of physical hygiene about which Christ spoke in John 15:3,
and about which the author of Hebrews wrote at Heb 10:22; are too unsanitary
to associate with God on a personal basis.

Of course that peculiar hygiene is only a temporary expedient for Christ's
believing followers seeing as how they're in line for an intrinsically super
clean body similar in all respects to his own glorious body. (Php 3:21)

Bottom line is: There will be no natural human life in the heaven depicted in
the 21st chapter of Revelation.

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[Webers_Home]

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Q: Does the Bible say how to obtain the divine nature about which Peter
wrote?

A: Yes; actually the New Testament has quite a bit to say about obtaining
the divine nature; however it's easy to miss because its described with
different words.

Human nature is the essence of human life. In like manner, divine nature is
the essence of divine life. According to John 17:3, there's only one true
divine life and that's God. So then; seeing as how God is eternal, then divine
life is eternal too; and there are lots of verses telling how to obtain eternal
life; for example:

†. John 3:14-16 . . Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the
Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have
eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Christ compared his crucifixion to an incident in Israel's history recorded at
Num 21:5-9 wherein Yhvh's people became weary of living in the desert and
eating manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and
diplomatically, petitioning their divine benefactor for tastier food and better
accommodations, they became hostile and confrontational.

In response to their insolence; Yhvh sent a swarm of deadly poisonous
vipers among them; which began striking people; and those snakes were
really lethal. In no time at all, much people of Israel died.

Then those not yet dead came to their senses and asked Moses to intercede.
In reply; God instructed Moses to fashion an image of the vipers and hoist it
up on a pole so that everyone dying from venom could look to the image for
treatment.

The key issue here is that the image was the only God-given remedy for the
people's bites-- not sacrifices and offerings, not tithing, not church
attendance, not scapulars, not confession, not holy days of obligation, not
the Sabbath, not charity, not Bible study and Sunday school, not Torah
studies, not tithing, not one's religion of choice, not self denial, not the so
called golden rule, not vows of poverty, nor the Ten Commandments, nor
door-to-door missionary work, no; not even prayers. The image was it;
there was no other hope.

Just as those snakes were really lethal, so is human nature; ergo: everyone
who rises from the dead with human life will be doomed to the lake of fire
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 seeing as how eternal life is the only kind of life
with which God finds no fault-- I mean if God were to find fault with eternal
life; He would be finding fault with Himself.

Bottom line is: The divine nature (a.k.a. eternal life) is the final option; viz:
there is no other kind of life in existence anywhere any place that's better;
so if eternal life can't keep somebody sinless, then everybody is out of luck;
including God.

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