What Is Grace?

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BloodBought 1953

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Yes I assume you two have a history of some sort?




I don’t know Him—— I don’t * WANT* to know him.....
Having said that, I “ DO” enjoy shooting fish in a barrel....and I “ Do” enjoy taking Bible -Ignorant , Spreaders of Leaven and Using them as “ Springboards” in order to get the Truth Of Paul’s Lost Gospel Of Pure Grace out there for the Newbies in the crowd that have yet to be ruined by the Religionists, Legalistic and Tares That Sometimes rear their ugly heads in here....
 
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Episkopos

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Here’s another “ goody” in regard to Grace—

A cop pulls you over for speeding....gives you a ticket....later tears it up —- THAT is “ MERCY”

A cop pulls you over for speeding....gives you a ticket ....later goes and pays the Fine that you deserved......THAT is “ GRACE” .....


You forgot the free massage. This is completely out of any sense of reality. But if it makes you feel good.

Your understanding is carnal in the extreme. God is not there to serve us. We are to serve God. You have it exactly backwards.

Both of your examples are based on mercy. Your idea of grace is not biblical in the least. There is too much to correct here, but a few clarifications are in order.

1. Jesus died for the whole world...not just for those who take (steal) Jesus as their sacrifice for sins.
2. Jesus offered Himself up to the Father...not to us. His death covers the whole world and all whom God saves.
3. A mental acceptance of Jesus (and His shed blood) is quaint but has no bearing on reality.
4. Grace is about power...the power to fulfill the will of God.
5. For those who believe..WE are the sacrifice. The cross is meant to deal with us. read your Bible.
6. It is the resurrection life of Jesus that both justifies us and sanctifies us now...IF we walk in it....in HIM. In Him is no sin.
7. Many who "trust" in Jesus' blood (and done religious ministry in His name) will be cast into outer darkness. No unrighteousness will enter into the eternal kingdom of God.
8. We are saved by grace power at the present time...to be without sin...but we will be judged by our works...not what we believe. Those who have done the eternal works of grace will receive a reward...those who falsely claim to have walked by grace...will be cast away.
9. Human religious beliefs do not equate to biblical faith. Faith moves mountains. Beliefs only affect human brain synapses. They are in the realm of religious opinions. Faith connects us with God so that we draw the power of HIS life and holiness into our daily walks.
 
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mailmandan

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Grace is the unmerited favor of God in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or best efforts to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:6 - "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

We are saved by grace through faith, not works, not of ourselves it is the gift of God. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Galatians 2:21 - "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Timothy 1:9 - "who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."

Yet God's grace operates sovereignly in the lives of believers.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.
 
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Episkopos

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Unmerited favour is Old Testament grace. We need to upgrade what grace has become with the coming of Christ. Notice the power of the Church described in Acts with the coming of grace.

Everything in the NT is upgraded from what people can do in their own strength (OT standard) to what can be done through the power of resurrection life in Christ (NT).

What is wrong and misleading is to mix these two standards so that a person who walks in their own power (and therefore sins) is said to be walking according to grace. Being under the law means we walk in our own power. There is no need for law if we walk in the life of Christ (which is by grace). Grace overcomes the law in that the one who walks in the perfected walk of Christ has no need to be limited by the law. Grace fulfills the law or it isn't grace. The law is holy...and is meant as a gauge for holiness.

If we walk in the power of Christ the law PROVES that we are blameless and faultless in regard to God's holy standard.

IF we claim to be justified by Christ and yet walk in unholiness and unrighteousness...we are making Christ to be a minister of unholiness and unrighteousness. Such as these will be dealt with severely on judgment day. The Bible says...we become transgressors of both the law and of Christ. So we are worse off than before who make false claims towards grace and the work of Christ while we are still walking according to the flesh.

The better path is humility and the fear of the Lord. It is better to underestimate our standing with God than to overestimate it. But who is wise AFTER being indoctrinated into the shallow salvation schemes that are being peddled today as gospel?
 
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APAK

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perhaps it is confusing to you because you simply lack the understanding required to grasp it. I read your post and I would say you have no grasp on grace in the least bit your understanding of grace is greatly lacking and if you wish to confront @bloodbought at least do so in a mature and Christ like manner otherwise you only prove childish and immature which just makes your standing in your understanding of grace that much more lacking
So what is your take on grace in respect what I wrote as a quick primer of course, without supplying any details.?
 

Cross8527

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I don’t know Him—— I don’t * WANT* to know him.....
Having said that, I “ DO” enjoy shooting fish in a barrel....and I “ Do” enjoy taking Bible -Ignorant , Spreaders of Leaven and Using them as “ Springboards” in order to get the Truth Of Paul’s Lost Gospel Of Pure Grace out there for the Newbies in the crowd that have yet to be ruined by the Religionists, Legalistic and Tares That Sometimes rear their ugly heads in here....
Oh I see, based on how he responded to you in such a hateful manner i assumed he had a premeditated dislike towards you as the level of anger in his post seemed pretty high. I suppose that was my bad
 

Cross8527

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So what is your take on grace in respect what I wrote as a quick primer of course, without supplying any details.?
My issue with your take on grace is conditional vs unconditional. Mercy love grace salvation all these things are unconditional gifts from God bought by the blood of Jesus this is a simple but profound truth no conditions need to be met in order to keep them except to simply have faith and rest in Jesus he doesn't pick and choose who he gives it to it is a free gift to all who would accept it that is how grace works
Rest in his grace rest in his love rest in his peace for his yoke is light @bloodbought put it best when he posted
Gods
Riches
At
Christs
Expense
 

APAK

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My issue with your take on grace is conditional vs unconditional. Mercy love grace salvation all these things are unconditional gifts from God bought by the blood of Jesus this is a simple but profound truth no conditions need to be met in order to keep them except to simply have faith and rest in Jesus he doesn't pick and choose who he gives it to it is a free gift to all who would accept it that is how grace works
Rest in his grace rest in his love rest in his peace for his yoke is light @bloodbought put it best when he posted
Gods
Riches
At
Christs
Expense
Well thank you for your post. Yes I used to hear the words that grace is unconditional for salvation or other similar words. And that grace saves. Saved by Grace etc. Then upon further inspection and especially as it apples to salvation, and my salvation, the actual grace does not actually save anyone. I said to myself these beautiful sounding and inviting few words can be dangerous and deceptive. And they are not actually scriptural and in context. So I did more soul searching and meditation.

Now it is grace that makes it all possible for salvation, no doubt. Without God's grace no one would be saved that could be saved. It must be the prerequisite to our salvation indeed. Lock that in firmly!

When you combine the process or events or the realization that you have been saved you ponder more closely to the work of grace ONLY for your salvation. And you notice really it does not save. It is the first door or access point and it's free indeed. Lock that in as well.

When we debate doctrines of OSAS or the reverse OS not OS etc., and we read in scripture that God chooses us for salvation and although we make a type of 'limited' heartfelt or only mindful decision for Christ, it is actually God who makes the final decision to examine our heart to give his gift of faith and seal us with his spirit, into our own. Now grace at this point is not involved. It has zero to do with it, We already came through with free admission into be in the presence of God. We already came through the front door of God's grace and now we 'attempt' to gain salvation and the seal of the HS in his house, his dwelling place in our hearts.

As you well know only the truly genuine heart that is justified by Christ's work and his shed blood on the Cross are saved by our choice and by the final court of God's approval. We do not ultimately decide to be saved, it is in all of God's domain and his decision alone. This is what truly saves, God's decision and not his Grace only. Lock that one in.

As you can see, the grace of God actually does not save a person. Grace provides spiritual access only and the ability to be saved.

So in this sense and context for grace to be effective and serve its intended purpose for salvation, to save someone, it is conditional depending on if the person is saved by God or not. Lock that in.

Not all people are saved whether they know it already or they think they are saved and solely by their own carnality or will.

Think of the two camps that argue on these forums concerning Christ's death. One camp says he died for all mankind. And the other camp says he died only for the saved. Both are really correct if you understand the two different perspectives and context used for their answer. Christ's shed blood and death has the ability to save all, it is however conditional on people's actions and God's verdict. So we can say that Christ's grace and of his death and shed blood to save all is conditional not on him at all, even though he shed it intentional for all freely - it is the interaction with peoples' hearts and God in the final analysis.

So in summary, God's grace was given to all mankind freely to be saved, and only through his Son's grace of his shed blood for all mankind freely, so one could be saved. Do you see my point here? God's grace given freely to us does not guarantee our salvation, it is conditional based on God's criteria to eternal life - he chooses not us.

This is why I deliberately wrote that text that I did previously to be more precise and I knew I would get a quick response as I did. And I had hoped to explain myself without all guns blazing. I guess I knew what I was getting into...

Thanks for listening
 

Cross8527

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Well thank you for your post. Yes I used to hear the words that grace is unconditional for salvation or other similar words. And that grace saves. Saved by Grace etc. Then upon further inspection and especially as it apples to salvation, and my salvation, the actual grace does not actually save anyone. I said to myself these beautiful sounding and inviting few words can be dangerous and deceptive. And they are not actually scriptural and in context. So I did more soul searching and meditation.

Now it is grace that makes it all possible for salvation, no doubt. Without God's grace no one would be saved that could be saved. It must be the prerequisite to our salvation indeed. Lock that in firmly!

When you combine the process or events or the realization that you have been saved you ponder more closely to the work of grace ONLY for your salvation. And you notice really it does not save. It is the first door or access point and it's free indeed. Lock that in as well.

When we debate doctrines of OSAS or the reverse OS not OS etc., and we read in scripture that God chooses us for salvation and although we make a type of 'limited' heartfelt or only mindful decision for Christ, it is actually God who makes the final decision to examine our heart to give his gift of faith and seal us with his spirit, into our own. Now grace at this point is not involved. It has zero to do with it, We already came through with free admission into be in the presence of God. We already came through the front door of God's grace and now we 'attempt' to gain salvation and the seal of the HS in his house, his dwelling place in our hearts.

As you well know only the truly genuine heart that is justified by Christ's work and his shed blood on the Cross are saved by our choice and by the final court of God's approval. We do not ultimately decide to be saved, it is in all of God's domain and his decision alone. This is what truly saves, God's decision and not his Grace only. Lock that one in.

As you can see, the grace of God actually does not save a person. Grace provides spiritual access only and the ability to be saved.

So in this sense and context for grace to be effective and serve its intended purpose for salvation, to save someone, it is conditional depending on if the person is saved by God or not. Lock that in.

Not all people are saved whether they know it already or they think they are saved and solely by their own carnality or will.

Think of the two camps that argue on these forums concerning Christ's death. One camp says he died for all mankind. And the other camp says he died only for the saved. Both are really correct if you understand the two different perspectives and context used for their answer. Christ's shed blood and death has the ability to save all, it is however conditional on people's actions and God's verdict. So we can say that Christ's grace and of his death and shed blood to save all is conditional not on him at all, even though he shed it intentional for all freely - it is the interaction with peoples' hearts and God in the final analysis.

So in summary, God's grace was given to all mankind freely to be saved, and only through his Son's grace of his shed blood for all mankind freely, so one could be saved. Do you see my point here? God's grace given freely to us does not guarantee our salvation, it is conditional based on God's criteria to eternal life - he chooses not us.

This is why I deliberately wrote that text that I did previously to be more precise and I knew I would get a quick response as I did. And I had hoped to explain myself without all guns blazing. I guess I knew what I was getting into...

Thanks for listening
I will agree that there is a vast difference between a Christian by title and a Christian by heart and there are indeed those who make a half hearted decision or effort to be in Christ I myself before i was saved sought after him and wanted to be saved having no church or experience in being a Christian somehow knew that there was no connection and though i went to church and prayed looking for him i knew that a connection was needed and in the back of my mind i knew it was because i was not willing to give up everything for him he was not my hearts number one thing. it wasn't until i was at my worst until i felt dead inside until my life was trash to me and i honestly didn't care if i lived or died that i begged him into my heart offering him everything in return

He wants all of us not some of us or most us all of us he needs to be first in our hearts and lives for he is a jealous God after all. But i would argue that grace is not for the healf hearted in Christ and bear with me here for a second. Salvation true salvation is for those who give their all for him for those who give their whole hearts to him those are the ones who are Christians by heart who know him who bear his love and his spirit these are the ones who are called sons and daughters of God this is not something that is meant to be said for those who put in half effort or part of themselves into faith.

Likewise grace is a gift for the truly repentant the truly saved the true sons and daughters of God those who truly give themselves to God and for Christ not those who would be believers in title only just as salvation is not for those who would be Christians by title only.
Grace saves but only those who give themselves fully to God. Of course this could be seen as a condition in the unconditional spectrum and granted yes technically it is but it is also the one condition nthat seperates those who would be believers by title and by heart it is the one condition that seperates those who would try to earn their salvation and those who live in their salvation
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Unmerited favour is Old Testament grace. We need to upgrade what grace has become with the coming of Christ. Notice the power of the Church described in Acts with the coming of grace.



Grace is Grace—- it has never needed an “ upgrade” anymore than “Mercy” needs it....The Grace that covered the sins of David in his unspeakable wickedness ( Old Testament Stuff, btw) took more “ power” than almost anything since....

The “ power” of the Church was due to a “ Helper” —— it was that “ helper” that Jesus said would not come unless He Shed His Blood at the Cross .....of course that helper is the Holy Spirit.....God’s Grace has always been at hand ( Adam and Eve got a ton of it) , but the Holy Spirit that used to come and go in the Old Testament is now *IN* us......and STAYS in us.....THIS is “ The MYSTERY that had been hidden by God from all ages and generations , but Now has been revealed to His People”.....

To further elaborate on Power.....All Anybody had to go by in the OT Days was the Law....Paul said that The Law was “ weak and useless” in that it had “ No Power” to Save....Paul went on to say that only the Gospel has the POWER to Save....

So the New Testament Church received a “ double whammy” when it came to Power—- the Power Of The In -Dwelling Holy Spirit ( permanent now) and the fully- revealed ( no longer hidden from mankind) Word Of God that includes the Gospel found In 1Cor 15:1-4 That actually has the POWER to save....but ONLY if you have the Faith to Believe it to the point that you REST in it..... If one refuses to “ Rest” in the Gospel, God will charge you with “ Unbelief”—— no better than the ancient Jews that died in the desert because of their “ Unbelief”..... serious stuff ....any doubters out there should refer to Hebrews 3 and 4.....God Bless....
 
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BloodBought 1953

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Oh I see, based on how he responded to you in such a hateful manner i assumed he had a premeditated dislike towards you as the level of anger in his post seemed pretty high. I suppose that was my bad


Not “ your bad” at all.....He reacted like any other person would when they get stabbed by “ The Sword Of Truth”.......” God’s Word is as sharp as a two- edged sword”..... people don’t react in the Wild Manner That He did unless you hit a Nerve....perhaps he will show a little more composure and maturity the next time he gets properly and Biblically ‘Rebuked” ......
 

BloodBought 1953

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I will agree that there is a vast difference between a Christian by title and a Christian by heart and there are indeed those who make a half hearted decision or effort to be in Christ I myself before i was saved sought after him and wanted to be saved having no church or experience in being a Christian somehow knew that there was no connection and though i went to church and prayed looking for him i knew that a connection was needed and in the back of my mind i knew it was because i was not willing to give up everything for him he was not my hearts number one thing. it wasn't until i was at my worst until i felt dead inside until my life was trash to me and i honestly didn't care if i lived or died that i begged him into my heart offering him everything in return

He wants all of us not some of us or most us all of us he needs to be first in our hearts and lives for he is a jealous God after all. But i would argue that grace is not for the healf hearted in Christ and bear with me here for a second. Salvation true salvation is for those who give their all for him for those who give their whole hearts to him those are the ones who are Christians by heart who know him who bear his love and his spirit these are the ones who are called sons and daughters of God this is not something that is meant to be said for those who put in half effort or part of themselves into faith.

Likewise grace is a gift for the truly repentant the truly saved the true sons and daughters of God those who truly give themselves to God and for Christ not those who would be believers in title only just as salvation is not for those who would be Christians by title only.
Grace saves but only those who give themselves fully to God. Of course this could be seen as a condition in the unconditional spectrum and granted yes technically it is but it is also the one condition nthat seperates those who would be believers by title and by heart it is the one condition that seperates those who would try to earn their salvation and those who live in their salvation





By putting one’s TOTAL FAITh in the Shed Blood Of Christ and His Finished Work At the Cross , wicked men and women can become the Actual Children Of God —- completely reconciled and at peace with their Heavenly Father......THAT is Grace!
Grace has no stipulations....Jesus took our old contract and ripped it in half...our legal debt is gone —- fully paid by the Blood Of Jesus...Grace is the undeserved kindness extended to us the second that we understand that we have done NOTHING to merit that “ Kindness”.....

We are all weak vessels, prone to do Wrong ....We don’t love Jesus as we should—- we don’t obey Jesus as we should .....yet Nothing in all of Creation can separate us from His Love for us—- THAT is Grace.....Our daily failings are Covered —— Covered by Grace....” AMAZING” Grace doe not even begin to describe it ....

The secret of Christianity is that knowing that no matter what sins I commit—- they are Covered by the Blood Of Jesus and the Grace of God ...If I am a man that Trusts Jesus ( and NOT himself ) to Save Himself and if I REST in the Gospel Of Pure Grace —— I could not go to Hell if I tried! If Jesus truly “ died for all of my sins”, what sins could I ever be damned for? When you know in your heart that all of your sins are covered, and I am talking about when you *KNOW* it—- the True Result Of That is just the opposite of what the Legalists and the Religionists think in their “ unregenerate” minds.....the second that I realized that I was free to do what I “ Wanted to do” and not be condemned for it was the very same second I didn’t “ want to do” the sinful things that used to give me pleasure...yeah, Christianity is “ crazy” like that....Chances are if you have not experienced this Truth....if you have not LIVED it— you will never be able to grasp it....It’s Solid Food....it’s not for Milk Drinkers...