What Is Liberalism?

[aspen]

Every since the dawn of FOX News, liberalism has become a bad word. So what is liberalism? Since I have been branded a liberal on this board, I am just wondering what it means? While we are at it - what does universalism mean?

Is it possible to be a liberal and believe the word of God is inspired? Is it possible to believe in universalism and believe that people are going to end up in Hell? Are 7th Day Adventists universalists since they deny the existence of Hell?

Was Jesus liberal minded for going against the establishment of the Pharisees? Was He a conservative by attacking the new order of the Pharisees and trying to bring everyone back to pre-Pharisee time period?

 

[Foreigner]

"Was Jesus liberal minded for going against the establishment of the Pharisees? Was He a conservative by attacking the new order of the Pharisees and trying to bring everyone back to pre-Pharisee time period?" - Aspen


???

 

[aspen]

what is your question, Foreigner?

 

[Foreigner]

Just looking for a translation of what you are trying to say specifically.

What exactly is your definition of a liberal?

The issue I have had with Liberals is their stance on abortion, gay marriage, minimalization of Christianity and the expectations that Christians should be willing to compromise on their position of salvation to bring it in line with other religions that "get along just fine."

Liberals also tend to espouse 'tolerance' and 'acceptance' but I have noticed that is only if you happen to share the same beliefs they have.

If not then you become a 'bigot' 'racist' 'homophobe' 'elitist' 'zealot' 'hater' etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum

 

[religusnut]

Some sources equate liberalism to mental illness. Just sayin.

 

[aspen]

Just looking for a translation of what you are trying to say specifically.

What exactly is your definition of a liberal?

The issue I have had with Liberals is their stance on abortion, gay marriage, minimalization of Christianity and the expectations that Christians should be willing to compromise on their position of salvation to bring it in line with other religions that "get along just fine."

Liberals also tend to espouse 'tolerance' and 'acceptance' but I have noticed that is only if you happen to share the same beliefs they have.

If not then you become a 'bigot' 'racist' 'homophobe' 'elitist' 'zealot' 'hater' etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum

I think you are limiting the word 'liberal' to a political position. I am using it in a political sense and in the case of Christ, in a more global sense. Liberal minded people are looking for change and conservative people are often trying to keep things the way they are or trying to turn back the clock to a more pure time period.

In the political sense, I think liberals are mislabeled as immoral, when actually they are trying to protect a minority group. I think they espouse values that lean on the side of open-mindedness, but run into a contradiction when they encounter minority groups (normally qualifying for protection) who value excluding other groups (the group values are totally contrary). I am not sure why this is difficult to understand. It is sort of like conservatives who despise abortion, but are all for capital punishment.

If you refuse to see the value of protecting minority groups - you will miss the liberal mindset. If you refuse to see the conservative value of innocent vs. guilt and a just world mindset - you will miss the conservative mindset.

 

[aspen]

Some sources equate liberalism to mental illness. Just sayin.

Ha - you obviously haven't worked with mentally ill people.

 

[religusnut]

Ha - you obviously haven't worked with mentally ill people.

Probably more than you might think.

 

[aspen]

Well, we all work with crazy people, I just get paid to do it

 

[Martin W.]

Jesus was a Christian and a Conservative.

 

[Martin W.]

If a conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.

If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.
If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a conservative sees a foreign threat, he thinks about how to defeat his enemy.
A liberal wonders how to surrender gracefully and still look good.

If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.

If a black man or Hispanic is conservative, they see themselves as independently successful.
Their liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government protection.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.

If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Liberals demand that those they don’t like be shut down.

If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.
A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it’s a foreign religion, of course!)

If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his.

If a conservative slips and falls in a store, he gets up, laughs and is embarrassed.
If a liberal slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans like he's in labor and then sues.

If a conservative reads this, he’ll have a good laugh.
A liberal reads this he will complain and be offended because his feelings are hurt.

 

[Martin W.]

YOU MIGHT BE A LIBERAL IF...


If you believe that posting the "Ten Commandments" in schools will hurt the children, but putting "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "Ask Alice" (on the internet) won't.

You think marriage is obsolete - except for homosexuals.

You feel Fidelity means not cheating on your mistress.

You think creation is nonsense and evolution is fact.

You dislike Israel and Christians , but think all the other religions are fine.

You believe that nativity scenes should be banned from public view, but that anyone objecting to pornography “only has to look the other way.”

You were happy when they changed BC (before Christ) to mean 'Before Common era.'

You give money to the homeless man on the corner of the freeway, but you turn up your nose every time you see a boy scout."

You think that pornography corrupts women, but find nothing wrong with a 50 year old president seducing a 21 year old intern.

You think a mother has a right to kill an innocent 5 month fetus because her pregnancy would interfere with her career, but feel we shouldn't put to death the man who raped and murdered 14 women.

You think it is OK for a President to commit perjury on his sex life, but criticize Dan Quayle for spelling potato/potatoe wrong.

You stood on a soapbox demanding that Anita Hill be heard, but want Paula Jones' accusations to be swept under the rug.

You think the guy who drops out of High School and builds your jeep deserves more money than the doctor who went to college for 10 years and saves your kids life.

You think a moment of silent prayer at the beginning of the school day constitutes government indoctrination and an intrusion on parental authority, while sex education, condom distribution and multiculturalism are values.

 

[aspen]

Jesus was a Christian and a Conservative.


Well, actually, Jesus was a Jew.......

How was He conservative?

 

[aspen]

If you believe that posting the "Ten Commandments" in schools will hurt the children, but putting "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "Ask Alice" (on the internet) won't.

I do not want the public school system teaching my kids about Jesus - I simply do not trust them. Also, I think you might be a conservative if you are short-sighted enough to believe Christianity would be the only religion taught in public school if religion is allowed in the classrooms of our pluralistic society......be careful what you wish for.

You think marriage is obsolete - except for homosexuals.

I have been married for 20 years. You might be conservative if you believe recognizing that people who do not share your belief system actually exist, and expect equal rights, is the same thing as accepting their beliefs

You feel Fidelity means not cheating on your mistress.

I have never cheated on my wife. You might be a conservative if you believe people without your viewpoint are immoral.

You think creation is nonsense and evolution is fact.

The Creation account is an inspired story - I tend to believe it was a revelation from God to Moses that lasted 7 days. Evolution is a theory. You might be a conservative if you believe salvation requires a saving relationship with Jesus and a literal interpretation of the Creation story.

You dislike Israel and Christians, but think all the other religions are fine.

I share CS Lewis' view of other religions - they are almost correct, which means they have value. You might be a conservative if you believe all nonbelievers are attacking you AND if you mistake the secular state of Israel for God's chosen people.

You believe that nativity scenes should be banned from public view, but that anyone objecting to pornography “only has to look the other way.”

Nativity scenes tend to be tacky, but I do not mind seeing them on private property. I believe pornography is incredibly damaging and needs to be restricted on the internet and banned (strip joints, adult bookstores) from city limits. You might be a conservative if you complain about pornography, but willingly trade your civil rights for safety in the form of x-ray cameras at airports. I'll tell you what - my kids will not be put on display for anyone - I will not trade my civil liberties for safety.

You were happy when they changed BC (before Christ) to mean 'Before Common era.'

Could careless - although if I was a historian, I would appreciate the more accurate model. You might be a conservative if something so small bothers you so much that you lose focus on important issues like government sponsered water-boarding.

You give money to the homeless man on the corner of the freeway, but you turn up your nose every time you see a boy scout.

Did I miss the part where Jesus told us to care for the Boy Scouts, rather than the poor?

You think that pornography corrupts women, but find nothing wrong with a 50 year old president seducing a 21 year old intern.

Clinton is immoral. You might be conservative if you supported impeaching a President for messing around with a 21 year old intern, while turning the other way when one of the architects of the impeachment was cheating on his wife during the entire incident.

You think a mother has a right to kill an innocent 5 month fetus because her pregnancy would interfere with her career, but feel we shouldn't put to death the man who raped and murdered 14 women.

I refuse to vote for candidates based on one issue. You might be conservative if you believe Republicans are going to lift a finger to stop abortion - they would lose their favorite 1 issue voting block!

You think it is OK for a President to commit perjury on his sex life, but criticize Dan Quayle for spelling potato/potatoe wrong.

Both issues are ridiculous, media generated garbage used to sedate the masses. You may be conservative if you believe FOX News when it reports these kind of subjects as real news.

You think the guy who drops out of High School and builds your jeep deserves more money than the doctor who went to college for 10 years and saves your kids life.

I support a living wage. Doctors make too much money - mechanics make too much money. You might be conservative if you envy people who are on street corners or collecting welfare, instead of helping the poor.

You think a moment of silent prayer at the beginning of the school day constitutes government indoctrination and an intrusion on parental authority, while sex education, condom distribution and multiculturalism are values.

I do not want the public school system to take on the responsibility of teaching my kids about God. You might be conservative if you believe that all parents are responsible about teaching their kids about sex (teachers cannot even get parents to show up for parent/teacher conferences) AND if you believe that the United States is still only a country for white people.

So, I guess I disagreed with your list more than a few times.....the republicans in Congress have made it clear that any dissension from the party lines means you must be a liberal........

Okay - so now that all the political stereo-types have been presented, back to the original topic......

Peace

 

[Foreigner]

"I do not want the public school system teaching my kids about Jesus - I simply do not trust them." - aspen

-- I agree. Neither do I want them teaching about homosexuality. For the same reason you gave.



"You might be a conservative if you believe salvation requires a saving relationship with Jesus and a literal interpretation of the Creation story." - aspen

-- So you are saying that the vast, vast, vast majority of Christians are Conservative...interesting.



"I share CS Lewis' view of other religions - they are almost correct, which means they have value." - aspen

-- You conveniently leave out the part where Lewis point out the believers of those religions are doomed to be eternally lost because they do not accept Jesus as their personal savior or only way to salvation.



"You might be a conservative if you complain about pornography, but willingly trade your civil rights for safety in the form of x-ray cameras at airports." - aspen

-- Straw man argument. You will note that the most invasive full body x-rays are being incorporated under the most far-left administration in history.
Try again LOL



"Could careless - although if I was a historian, I would appreciate the more accurate model. You might be a conservative if something so small bothers you so much that you lose focus on important issues like government sponsered water-boarding." - aspen

-- Another straw man. Change the subject from "BC to BCE"to something that has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about. Typical.
The funny thing about that is, the date is still based on the approximate birth year of the individual Jesus so those truly "offended" are still marking their current calendar based on the person who is the savior to all Christians.



"I support a living wage. Doctors make too much money - mechanics make too much money." - aspen

-- And just who decides who makes too much and who makes too little. Oh, that's right...the Government!
Been tried before big guy, and it has ALWAYS failed...and miserably at that. But don't let a little thing like facts get in your way.



"You might be conservative if you supported impeaching a President for messing around with a 21 year old intern, while turning the other way when one of the architects of the impeachment was cheating on his wife during the entire incident." - aspen

-- Gingrich was doing exactly that...and that is why his bid for President will come to nothing. The American people aren't going to vote for that hypocrite.

But you are being dishonest on one matter: Clinton wasn't impeached because he sexually molested his intern. He was impeached because he LIED to a Grand Jury -- under oath -- on video, no less. That is a crime that would put you and me in jail and THAT was why he was impeached. Get a clue.


"You might be conservative if you believe Republicans are going to lift a finger to stop abortion - they would lose their favorite 1 issue voting block!" - aspen

-- You are showing your dishonesty here. A simple perusal of any politician who is anti-abortion will show his/her votes against abortion.
I know it appears alot to ask, but could you please be honest?



"You may be conservative if you believe FOX News when it reports these kind of subjects as real news." - aspen

-- Yet ANOTHER straw man. But if my arguments were as weak as yours I would perhaps do the same thing.

Fox has far right people like Hannity, and the lot...just as places like MSNBC has far left like Maddow, Olberman and Lawrence O'Donnell who two or three days ago admitted on-air that he is a 'socialist.' Note, that is a title he called himself. Yet you are going to believe HE is impartial. Priceless LOL

The News portion of FOX is the most trusted in America. That is why Americans watched them more on election night than any cable or network news agency, period.



"AND if you believe that the United States is still only a country for white people." - aspen

-- Straw man Grande. And of course it is only a matter of time before a liberal slaps down the race card. Great job fulfilling that stereotype.
Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Michael Steele, J.C. Watts, and the record number of Hispanic and Black Republicans who won election last week would likely disagree with you LOL. Hmmm...Is this the part where - as a liberal - you start throwing around the phrase, "Uncle Tom?"



You wonder why the majority of Americans have a negative connotation of Liberals and that they make up only 20% of America's population (your friend the self-professed Socialist Lawrence O'Donnel of MSNBC gave those statistics on the air)

Perhaps reading your own comments will clear that up for you. Just a thought...

 

[pgfinest2002]

Some sources equate liberalism to mental illness. Just sayin.

LOL. Yes. I know at least one source who associates liberalism with a mental disorder.

 

[aspen]

-- I agree. Neither do I want them teaching about homosexuality. For the same reason you gave.

Yet, homosexual unions are reality. Just like divorce. Kids have questions about what they see in their world - many parents will not answer their questions. It may surprise you, but explaining homosexuality union does not encourage kids to be homosexuals.

-- So you are saying that the vast, vast, vast majority of Christians are Conservative...interesting.

The largest Protestant churches in the US are Assemblies of God (willow creek / saddleback model) and Presbyterian USA - both leave the door open for evolution. The Catholic Church has a billion members - they leave the door open for evolution.

-- You conveniently leave out the part where Lewis point out the believers of those religions are doomed to be eternally lost because they do not accept Jesus as their personal savior or only way to salvation.

I said "they are almost right". Did I say that the people who belong to other religions who do not know Christ are all going to Heaven?

-- Straw man argument. You will note that the most invasive full body x-rays are being incorporated under the most far-left administration in history.
Try again LOL

Um, under which administration were they developed and first implemented? That would be under George Bush - the same man who authorized waterboarding and spying on American citizens. BTW, I am not debating you - I am pointing out how ridiculous you are being with your generalizations about liberals by pointing out examples of opposite generalization.

-- Another straw man. Change the subject from "BC to BCE"to something that has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about. Typical.

I am taking you literally. I thought you liked things literal. So now I am supposed to read between the lines - you need to let me know when you want me to take you literally and when you do not - I am not a mind reader.

The funny thing about that is, the date is still based on the approximate birth year of the individual Jesus so those truly "offended" are still marking their current calendar based on the person who is the savior to all Christians.

Even funnier, now you are taking yourself literally.

-- And just who decides who makes too much and who makes too little. Oh, that's right...the Government!

The economy. No one who is willing to work 40 hours per week should be in poverty - it is immoral. I was giving my opinion - I think mechanics make too much money and I think doctors make too much money - I have no plans to make it a law.

Been tried before big guy, and it has ALWAYS failed...and miserably at that. But don't let a little thing like facts get in your way.

Um...that is MR. Silly Big Guy, to you; Big Guy.......

"You might be conservative if you supported impeaching a President for messing around with a 21 year old intern, while turning the other way when one of the architects of the impeachment was cheating on his wife during the entire incident." - aspen

-- Gingrich was doing exactly that...and that is why his bid for President will come to nothing. The American people aren't going to vote for that hypocrite.

But you are being dishonest on one matter: Clinton wasn't impeached because he sexually molested his intern. He was impeached because he LIED to a Grand Jury -- under oath -- on video, no less. That is a crime that would put you and me in jail and THAT was why he was impeached. Get a clue.

Make sure you include the entire story. Clinton was dogged throughout his entire presidency by "Independent" Counsel, Kenneth Starr. No President could have come out clean under that kind of scrutiny - it was a witch hunt from the beginning of the republican take over of Congress. Yes, Clinton is a liar - is that grounds for impeachment? Would he have even been in a position to lie under oath without Ken Starr grasping at straws? Only under a Republican dominated Congress. You might want to get a clue about the war crimes of George W. Bush - Clinton's lie doesn't hold a candle to Ws war crimes. Not that it matters, politics are corrupt. I am just not "silly" enough to believe one side is less corrupt than the other.

-- You are showing your dishonesty here. A simple perusal of any politician who is anti-abortion will show his/her votes against abortion.
I know it appears alot to ask, but could you please be honest?

Ok, so let's see I guess I am a lying, silly, Big Guy, now? Just keeping track. And all those Republican votes have resulted in......... a continued legalization of abortion! Next....

-- Yet ANOTHER straw man. But if my arguments were as weak as yours I would perhaps do the same thing.

Silly, lying, weakling, Big Guy! Wow - you are clever!

Once again - I am simply pointing out how ridiculous your liberal generalizations are by generating ridiculous conservative examples - my statements were inspired by yours, but not dependent on your statements. And once again, I am not debating you. You might want to go look up the definition of strawman.

Fox has far right people like Hannity, and the lot...just as places like MSNBC has far left like Maddow, Olberman and Lawrence O'Donnell who two or three days ago admitted on-air that he is a 'socialist.' Note, that is a title he called himself. Yet you are going to believe HE is impartial. Priceless LOL

Um....did I ever claim that MSNBC was unbiased?!

The News portion of FOX is the most trusted in America. That is why Americans watched them more on election night than any cable or network news agency, period.

According to FOX! I heard they believe they are fair and balance too - haha

-- Straw man Grande. And of course it is only a matter of time before a liberal slaps down the race card. Great job fulfilling that stereotype.

Is this your way of side stepping the fact that America is the home of Latinos, Blacks, Asians, and Whites? I guess you can call pointing out reality "playing the race card", but it will be hard to take you seriously. Usually, when people complain about multiculturalism, they get reminded that other cultures exist in this country. It is sort of like when people complain about taxes being raised; they get reminded that we actually have to pay for W's two wars......

Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, Michael Steele, J.C. Watts, and the record number of Hispanic and Black Republicans who won election last week would likely disagree with you LOL.

They would disagree that American is the home of more than just white people? Even they are not that Republican - lol

Hmmm...Is this the part where - as a liberal - you start throwing around the phrase, "Uncle Tom?"

Now who is relying on stereo-types?

You wonder why the majority of Americans have a negative connotation of Liberals and that they make up only 20% of America's population (your friend the self-professed Socialist Lawrence O'Donnel of MSNBC gave those statistics on the air)

I do not own a TV.

Perhaps reading your own comments will clear that up for you. Just a thought...

Aww......you got me again

Ok....so now that you are finished explaining why your understanding of Liberal behavior bothers you, are you ready to answer the question - what is a Liberal?

Peace

 

[aspen]

It is too bad that you guys interpret Conservative and Liberal as merely political terms - that was only part of this thread. I am more interested in the mindset of people who are conservative and liberal. It is also too bad that the people who have responded are so polarized when it comes to the political meaning of the words - as if one side of the government is right and the other one is wrong - I think you would have to be completely out of touch with reality to believe that one side is right, when they are both so very wrong! But, since conservatives have such a good sense of humor, I thought I would change it up a bit - just for laughs.

If a conservative is afraid of crime, she buys a handgun and keeps it unlocked and loaded under the bed.
If a liberal is afraid, she calls the police

If a conservative eats red meat, she believes her ideas are the same as God's, and makes sure to bring lots of it over to her vegetarian friend's house for dinner, just to make sure she learns how to really eat like God intended.
If a liberal eats red meat, she is a conservative

If a conservative doesn't see a foreign threat, she makes sure to create one
A liberal wonders why her conservative friends need so many enemies......

If a conservative is heterosexual, she makes sure to tell all the homosexuals she knows (and those she doesn't know) how depraved they are for choosing to be gay.
If a liberal is heterosexual, she will be concerned about laws that might discriminate against her homosexual friends.

If a black women or Hispanic is conservative, she often forgets how hard it was to get to where she is today and loses touch with her former community.
Their liberal counterparts are often entrenched in poverty and view their rich counterparts as benefiting from their community and then abandoning them

If a conservative is down-and-out, she benefits from all the services available, just like everyone else, but either pretends not to, or convinces herself that she deserves the services.
A liberal goes to work at her crappy job, half-time, so that she can collect welfare in order to afford to feed her family and wonders if the system will ever actually help people like her improve their lot, rather than punishing them for working full time.

If a conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, she believes it is just another indication of the morality of America going down the drain and goes onto a message board to engage in conversation about the end of the world.
Liberals point out the errors on the show, but recognize that the host has the right to voice his beliefs, not matter how crazy they happen to be, under the first amendment to the constitution.

If a conservative is a non-believer, she goes shopping on Sunday to buy as much as she can.
A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion represented equally in public or not at all.

If a conservative decides she needs health care, she has the option of paying for it, or the education to find a better job that provides it for her
A liberal recognizes that the rest of the developed world provides health care as a basic right; watches Frontline and finds out that the rest of the developed world also has low pharmaceutical prices because they bargain with the companies and the prices get past down to the only country that doesn't engage in this practice - the USA; and wonders to herself, why are we paying for the rest of the world to have low drug prices from our own American drug companies when we do not even have guaranteed health care coverage?

If a conservative slips and falls in a store, she sues the store like every American
If a liberal slips and falls, she sues the store like every American who has a crappy job that doesn't provide health insurance.

If a conservative reads this, she'll have a good laugh because she knows that she is right.
A liberal who reads this sees it as another attempt by the elite in this country to justify the privileges they do not even recognize they have, and shrugs her shoulders.

 

[veteran]

This thread probably ought to be moved to the Politics section.

While I'm here, my two cents...

Isa 32:1-6
1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
2 And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.
3 And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
4 The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.
5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.
6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
(KJV)

The timing of that is shown with the One Who shall "reign in righteousness", when those of a rash heart shall understand knowledge, and when the stammerers shall speak plainly. Basically after Christ's return. That's also when the "vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful".

That reveals how like in our times today the "vile person" would hijack the idea of being "liberal" in order to "speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail."

 

[Foreigner]

"The largest Protestant churches in the US are Assemblies of God (willow creek / saddleback model) and Presbyterian USA - both leave the door open for evolution. The Catholic Church has a billion members - they leave the door open for evolution." - aspen

-- Wrong on both counts. Certain leaders/churches within a denomination may but the majority doesn't.
But again, why let a little thing like facts get in your way.




"According to FOX! I heard they believe they are fair and balance too - haha" - aspen

-- Actually it was the Neilson Ratings that said FOX beat both the cable and network news stations on election night coverage, but hey, these are facts so I understand why you don't embrace them.




"Um....did I ever claim that MSNBC was unbiased?!" - aspen

-- So it is only wrong if they are biased in a way you don't agree. Got it now, thanks.




"AND if you believe that the United States is still only a country for white people." - aspen

-- Injecting race into a conversation that has nothing to do with race in order to accuse a person or group of racism.
That is what liberals do. They simply can't control themselves.




"I do not own a TV." - aspen

-- That explains your expertise on FOX.




"The economy. No one who is willing to work 40 hours per week should be in poverty - it is immoral." - aspen

-- Thankfully the vast majority of people working 40 hours a week are not in poverty. But if they didn't stay in school, get a degree, etc. etc. they really can't be surprised if they aren't home owners, don't have two cars, aren't able to take a nice vacation every year...




"Now who is relying on stereo-types?" - aspen

-- A simple Lexus-Nexus search of the use of that term would confirm for you that is a fact, not a stereotype.
But again, that would mean you would have to deal with facts. It seems that it too much to expect...




"Clinton was dogged throughout his entire presidency by "Independent" Counsel, Kenneth Starr. No President could have come out clean under that kind of scrutiny" - aspen

-- Just think, if the man would have told the truth from the very start, the Republicans would have had no place to go with it and a Special Investigator wouldn't have even been appointed.
It was a self-inflicted wound on Clinton's part. Nice job, Bill.




"Yes, Clinton is a liar - is that grounds for impeachment?" - aspen

-- When you lie to a grand jury under oath then yes. Absolutely.
Again, a self-inflicted wound.
Of course that may depend on what your definition of the word 'is' is....
Curse you blue dresssssss!!!!!!



"You might want to get a clue about the war crimes of George W. Bush" - aspen

-- Cliche' grande'. Curious as to why the Democrat Controlled congress has not - since they took power in 2006 - chosen to take up that 'cause.'
Especially if the 'evidence' is obvious. You are barking up the wrong tree, big guy lol



"they get reminded that we actually have to pay for W's two wars....." - aspen

-- Dems have controlled Congress (and thus the funding of those wars) for four years. These are the same Dems who campaigned promising to end the war.
Yet they are still writing the checks to pay for the wars that the Dem president continues to sign. Again, wrong tree... lol




"Aww......you got me again" - aspen

-- Actually, yes. Nice of you to acknowledge.