What is Mystery Babylon?

[amigo de christo]

Jesus and the apostles sure used the word BELIEVE in HIM a lot .
exactly . and so that BELIEVING , yes BELIEVING that JESUS IS THE CHRIST ye might have LIFE through HIS NAME .
john later writes
HE who denies JESUS is THE CHRIST , He is antichrist . hey epi
BETTER get busy reminding about the dire need to BELIEVE .

 

[amigo de christo]

The hardest prison to escape, is the one created by your own mind. Stop limiting God to your own imagination.

 

[amigo de christo]

Wood.


Hay

and stubble.

NOT HAY WOOD or STUBBLE . IT BE TRUTH EPI .
Time to flee the social justice inclusive gospel and do so very fast . Time to start preaching the DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE
and to remind all about ALL things HE did teach . that be what TIME it is epi .

 

[Wick Stick]

Did you watch @Episkopos video, @Wick Stick ?

Only the first minute or so.

The question is answerable in a couple paragraphs. I didn't see that it needed 37 minutes worth of explanation.

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm adding this comment from a contributor on another site.

House Church Concerns

In recent years I have become almost as concerned with the "House Church Movement" as I have with the Institutional Church. There is this prevalent belief, misconception, that simply moving meetings from a formal sanctuary into a living room is somehow "a cure all to end all." Additionally, we are gaining an accumulation of "How To" books within this "Movement" in the manner of many of the other "popular movements." Of course, not everyone has been immersed as I have, or we have, related to House Church influences, expose's on what's wrong with the Institutional Church, the historical roots of its many practices, the New Testament pattern of church, and so forth and so on.


No doubt, these are all valid factors in our overall understanding of where we are and how we got there, along with the technical correctness of how church was designed to be set up and function. For myself, it can rightfully be said that Church History has played no insignificant role in formulating my convictions, next to the Scriptures and personal experience. Furthermore, I am convinced that meeting in homes and other informal venues provides for the greatest possibility for the preeminence of Christ and Body life as it was originally intended to be.

That said, it is also true that it is far easier to take the people out of the church than to take the church out of the people. It is far easier to fill a vacuum than to have to de-program and re-program people who, for the most part, bring their personal baggage along with them, requiring a sort of "decompression chamber" within the process of spiritual restoration in order to establish spiritual health and go on to maturity. And frankly, in a real sense, there is no more vulnerable place for believers and more fertile environment for error and abuse than within such an informal and ostensibly unstructured venue as "outside the camp." This is where "leaders" who have been prepared by the Lord outside of the Institutional Church framework and mindset will be needed and called upon to minister to such as these. With freedom comes increased risk and greater responsibility. I would submit that despite, or in addition to, the most technically correct New Testament approach to "doing church," what ultimately distinguished the Early Church was that it was led and influenced by men who knew Christ intimately, and could impart that knowledge in spirit and truth. They imparted more than mere teachings, but could impart the very Life of the Lord through their lives.

Seems like the flesh is always the problem God has to contend with in His people isn't it…..He can and does give what is good but it is the flesh that makes a mess of it.

And it really has always been a messy business with regard to the faith hasn’t it, right from the beginning with Adam and Eve, and think we can expect it will be so to the end….though there are seasons and places when things are better overall. But it has always really only been about a remnant – those who overcome the mark of Babylon and come out of her…God’s gift to the faithful. In any garden weeds and hungry pests are always around and threatening to take over, and the Gardener never stops having to do battle with these things. So I don’t think we are to expect a perfect church in this life that is according to our careful observation. But God knows those who are His.

Just look at what Paul and the early church was dealing with in his day (and he also foretold that after his departure the church would be usurped by wolves not sparing the flock, so the mystery of iniquity began to infect the church very early on):



1Co 5:9-13

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.



2Jo 1:7-11

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.




2Ti 3:1-8

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.



Those verses also tell me that there are those in the church who we are not to have fellowship and be in unity with. (Not in any bad attitude of spite or maliciousness or rejection……..but in a right spirit: for righteousness sake and for the good of those who need to turn around from the direction they are going in, as well as for the good of the church/garden as a whole, because a little leaven will take over and leaven the whole lump if the leaven is not dealt with or removed from it). We just are not to be ”hail fellow, well met” with everyone who call themselves a Christian just because that is what they call themselves.


I don’t’ think a discussion about this mystery of iniquity and Mystery Babylon can be quite finished without identifying how the manifestation of it gelled and congealed and formed in this age…….the institution of Catholicism. And those in Protestantism who are falling away from sound doctrine and falling into sin and are restoring their fellowship and unity with Catholicism are her daughters returning to her fold……….at a time when the Lord God is getting ready to judge it all, and it is so sad to see and hard to watch. Is this the gathering and bundling of the tares together….?

 

[David H.]

Seems like the flesh is always the problem God has to contend with in His people isn't it…..He can and does give what is good but it is the flesh that makes a mess of it.

And it really has always been a messy business with regard to the faith hasn’t it, right from the beginning with Adam and Eve, and think we can expect it will be so to the end….though there are seasons and places when things are better overall. But it has always really only been about a remnant – those who overcome the mark of Babylon and come out of her…God’s gift to the faithful. In any garden weeds and hungry pests are always around and threatening to take over, and the Gardener never stops having to do battle with these things. So I don’t think we are to expect a perfect church in this life that is according to our careful observation. But God knows those who are His.

Just look at what Paul and the early church was dealing with in his day (and he also foretold that after his departure the church would be usurped by wolves not sparing the flock, so the mystery of iniquity began to infect the church very early on):



1Co 5:9-13

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.



2Jo 1:7-11

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.




2Ti 3:1-8

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.



Those verses also tell me that there are those in the church who we are not to have fellowship and be in unity with. (Not in any bad attitude of spite or maliciousness or rejection……..but in a right spirit: for righteousness sake and for the good of those who need to turn around from the direction they are going in, as well as for the good of the church/garden as a whole, because a little leaven will take over and leaven the whole lump if the leaven is not dealt with or removed from it). We just are not to be ”hail fellow, well met” with everyone who call themselves a Christian just because that is what they call themselves.


I don’t’ think a discussion about this mystery of iniquity and Mystery Babylon can be quite finished without identifying how the manifestation of it gelled and congealed and formed in this age…….the institution of Catholicism. And those in Protestantism who are falling away from sound doctrine and falling into sin and are restoring their fellowship and unity with Catholicism are her daughters returning to her fold……….at a time when the Lord God is getting ready to judge it all, and it is so sad to see and hard to watch. Is this the gathering and bundling of the tares together….?

If we are told to come out of her. Mystery Babylon, is this not a reference to the corrupted churches if our day…. This is why the Jerusalem equals mystery Babylon falls apart, and mystery Babylon equals apostate churches if this laodicean church age…. Ask yourself what churches are “having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof”? Is this not both Catholicism and much of Protestantism, especially fundamentalism in its devotion to scripture which denies the revelation and sanctification if the Spirit in the church…. Even many charismatics reacting to that fundamentalism have given in to seducing spirits…. Ones that make them laugh or shake or bark like a dog…. That is why reactionary religion is not the answer either, like house churches. What matters is your walk with God, your own “pilgrims progress” not building an earthly kingdom known as church. Salvation and holiness go hand in hand just like you can’t have grace without the law…. You cannot have salvation without the result if the finished work of that salvation being holiness… the cleansing of the heart.
I am a sinner saved by grace, my sins atoned for by the blood of the lamb, being made holy by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in me according to the grace of God that I may finish that race according to his will… I am His workmanship no where in there is legalism or denying his grace a problem…. This is the “way” the Bible speaks of.

 

[David H.]

Sorry about typos, my fingers and phone keypad do not fit together

 

[Lizbeth]

If we are told to come out of her. Mystery Babylon, is this not a reference to the corrupted churches if our day…. This is why the Jerusalem equals mystery Babylon falls apart, and mystery Babylon equals apostate churches if this laodicean church age

I believe it was Jerusalem back in the first century...that is why in John's revelation it said these things were shortly to come to pass. And why Jesus spoke of that generation being the one to see the tribulation and things He was prophesying and speaking about in Matt. 24. He also told the believers to come out of Jerusalem when they saw the abomination of desolation.....and flee to the mountains. And this did happen back then.....the Lord made a way for faithful believers to escape the judgment and wrath that fell at that time upon Jerusalem and it's Temple which had become terribly corrupt and sinful. However, yes it is also a word to the Gentile church. The gospel is to the Jew first then the Gentile, but not the gospel only because it is also ..."tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Gentile" Do a search in the OT of the colours and description of the priesthood of Judaism and it matches Mystery Babylon. But also the Roman church does too. And notice too how the Roman church in other ways looks like Judaism too....it has priests, robes, incense, altars, bells, formal liturgical worship...etc.

Ask yourself what churches are “having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof”? Is this not both Catholicism and much of Protestantism, especially fundamentalism in its devotion to scripture which denies the revelation and sanctification if the Spirit in the church…

Yes, agree. I don't know if you read my last paragraph where I mentioned about Protestant churches and daughters of Babylon. Many Protestant churches are losing the Holy Spirit in these days...they are becoming nominal like Catholicism. No power. Unfortunately I think it is just a matter of time before they resort to "forms" like Catholicism does....some are even adopting those forms already. Forms = formulas and formalities etc........as opposed to the simplicity of Christ. There are some forms Protestantism never did really drop in the first place, such as the one-man show way of "doing church", virtually a priest called a pastor, instead of allowing and encouraging other members of the body to exercise their gifts and build itself up in love.

That is why reactionary religion is not the answer either, like house churches. What matters is your walk with God, your own “pilgrims progress” not building an earthly kingdom known as church.

Yes I agree.

But also, God's house is to be a house of prayer....if believers simply get together to pray and seek the Lord and worship Him, rather than thinking in terms of conducting a "service", I think that would be better. The bible doesn't mention "church services"....it only mentions "when you come together".....we need to have our minds renewed to understand the simplicity of Christ. And we are to build one another up in love, sharing what gifts we have been given. "When you come together, everyone of you hath......".....something to contribute, as the Spirit leads.

Salvation and holiness go hand in hand just like you can’t have grace without the law…. You cannot have salvation without the result if the finished work of that salvation being holiness… the cleansing of the heart.
I am a sinner saved by grace, my sins atoned for by the blood of the lamb, being made holy by the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in me according to the grace of God that I may finish that race according to his will… I am His workmanship no where in there is legalism or denying his grace a problem…. This is the “way” the Bible speaks of.

I believe born again believers have been made holy......we are sanctified by the Holy Spirit in us. But also we are being made holy and being sanctified, it is both a done deal as well as something that we are growing in and learning to walk in. And beyond that I believe there may be the potential for a state of being a fully surrendered vessel, fully possessed by the Lord.... a living sacrifice that His fire comes and burns up so to speak. I have heard testimonies that the old man flesh nature can be completely burned away by the Holy Spirit, and just not be a problem or in the way any more. It might be that different people may understand it a little differently or think of it in different words.

 

[Episkopos]

I believe born again believers have been made holy......we are sanctified by the Holy Spirit in us.

A person is clean until they become unclean. Try going a few weeks without a shower.

Being born again is a SAMPLE of grace. Why is it a sample? Because there is no way we...with our still carnal minds, habits and outlook, can possibly last very long in a state of holiness (grace). That's why it's best to see this as a sample. If we want MORE of God's goodness, we will need to seek God for it. Most will NOT do this. Especially considering the appalling lack of good teaching and the complete lack of discipleship we see in the franchise religious centers posing as churches. The evangelical decoy gospel is so EASY that even those who succeed in breaking away from these religious centers have the hardest time being weaned from a new religiously justified flesh.

But also we are being made holy and being sanctified, it is both a done deal as well as something that we are growing in and learning to walk in.

This is false. Unless one breaks through into the higher walk that is by faith...there is no more time in God's holiness. To get the full measure of grace one needs to seek God at the throne of grace. To argue against this very biblical admonition shows how far people have strayed from sound doctrine.

There is NO progressive holiness. We only last longer in that state by actually walking in the Spirit.

And beyond that I believe there may be the potential for a state of being a fully surrendered vessel, fully possessed by the Lord.... a living sacrifice that His fire comes and burns up so to speak. I have heard testimonies that the old man flesh nature can be completely burned away by the Holy Spirit, and just not be a problem or in the way any more. It might be that different people may understand it a little differently or think of it in different words.

That is simply being crucified in the outer man so that the inner man is translated into the higher walk. Spending time in His presence changes our way of thinking (renewing the mind). Otherwise we are growing only in iniquity by claiming we are getting more holy over time.

While the experience varies from person to person...the framework is the same. The kingdom of God is ALWAYS love, joy and peace in the Spirit. And we remain in that keeping power of God (once we are translated) until we sin a sin unto death. Death in the NT has to do with falling from a holiness state .

Everything in the NT points to walking in the perfection of Christ...in holiness.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

 

[Lizbeth]

cancel post

 

[Lizbeth]

oh here, have some with that coffee.

 

[Lizbeth]

A person is clean until they become unclean. Try going a few weeks without a shower.

Being born again is a SAMPLE of grace. Why is it a sample? Because there is no way we...with our still carnal minds, habits and outlook, can possibly last very long in a state of holiness (grace). That's why it's best to see this as a sample. If we want MORE of God's goodness, we will need to seek God for it. Most will NOT do this. Especially considering the appalling lack of good teaching and the complete lack of discipleship we see in the franchise religious centers posing as churches. The evangelical decoy gospel is so EASY that even those who succeed in breaking away from these religious centers have the hardest time being weaned from a new religiously justified flesh.



This is false. Unless one breaks through into the higher walk that is by faith...there is no more time in God's holiness. To get the full measure of grace one needs to seek God at the throne of grace. To argue against this very biblical admonition shows how far people have strayed from sound doctrine.

There is NO progressive holiness. We only last longer in that state by actually walking in the Spirit.

That is simply being crucified in the outer man so that the inner man is translated into the higher walk. Spending time in His presence changes our way of thinking (renewing the mind). Otherwise we are growing only in iniquity by claiming we are getting more holy over time.

While the experience varies from person to person...the framework is the same. The kingdom of God is ALWAYS love, joy and peace in the Spirit. And we remain in that keeping power of God (once we are translated) until we sin a sin unto death. Death in the NT has to do with falling from a holiness state .

Everything in the NT points to walking in the perfection of Christ...in holiness.

People are only actually growing if they are. I could name things that I have died to over the years, by the grace of God and His working in my life. Jesus said you have had the bath and are every whit clean...but we still need to allow Him to wash our feet. We ARE growing up into the Head which is Christ.....IF we actually are growing by paying the price to follow Him. You know, it took Jesus time to die on the cross, and He bled in seven ways......He was dying the whole time, but a moment came when He was dead.

 

[Episkopos]

People are only actually growing if they are. I could name things that I have died to over the years, by the grace of God and His working in my life. Jesus said you have had the bath and are every whit clean...but we still need to allow Him to wash our feet. We ARE growing up into the Head which is Christ.....IF we actually are growing by paying the price to follow Him. You know, it took Jesus time to die on the cross, and He bled in seven ways......He was dying the whole time, but a moment came when He was dead.

It doesn't take any time to die in God's economy. Certainly not 40 years. It is instantaneous. Progressive sanctification? No such thing. The reason why such doctrines exist is to NOT pay attention to the gospel. It's just....one day you will be holy. Of course no one actually believes that. But it's way for people to pretend they are something they are not.

And what is never discussed is how people actually grow in iniquity...by adopting the prevalent religious culture...learning to judge others, justifying oneself...and getting more and more inflexible with time....etc.

 

[Lizbeth]

It doesn't take any time to die in God's economy. Certainly not 40 years. The reason why such doctrines exist is to NOT pay attention to the gospel. It's just....one day you will be holy. Of course no one actually believes that. But it's way for people to pretend they are something they are not.

And what is never discussed is how people actually grow in iniquity...by adopting the prevalent religious culture...learning to judge others, justify oneself...and getting more and more inflexible....etc.

I know one thing....that I can't change myself.....changes in my life have come from the Lord and not myself and I keep looking to Him to change me more.

What are your thoughts on what Jesus said about being every whit clean, but needing to allow Him to wash our feet?

 

[Episkopos]

I know one thing....that I can't change myself.....changes in my life have come from the Lord and not myself and I keep looking to Him to change me more.

What are your thoughts on what Jesus said about being every whit clean, but needing to allow Him to wash our feet?

The disciples were in Jesus' presence...walking with Him daily. They left all to follow Him. So they were clean by association. Were they walking in the Spirit? No. Hence the feet needed washing. It also meant that they were still attached to this world. There was no higher walk available at the time.

 

[Lizbeth]

It doesn't take any time to die in God's economy. Certainly not 40 years. It is instantaneous. Progressive sanctification? No such thing. The reason why such doctrines exist is to NOT pay attention to the gospel. It's just....one day you will be holy. Of course no one actually believes that. But it's way for people to pretend they are something they are not.

And what is never discussed is how people actually grow in iniquity...by adopting the prevalent religious culture...learning to judge others, justifying oneself...and getting more and more inflexible with time....etc.

Bible says Jesus LEARNED obedience by the things which He suffered....and then was perfected by His death. And we are to follow in His footsteps. I can bring a bunch of scriptures to this effect but have to go out today. From what I can see I think we need to focus on likewise obeying and following the Lord and He will do what is needed..........I can't speak to your situation but seeking an "experience" doesn't always bode well in my observation. There's a difference between seeking the Lord and His will and seeking experiences.

 

[Lizbeth]

The disciples were in Jesus' presence...walking with Him daily. They left all to follow Him. So they were clean by association. Were they walking in the Spirit? No. Hence the feet needed washing. It also meant that they were still attached to this world. There was no higher walk available at the time.

Jesus said they were clean through the word spoken to them. Same as us. But clean by association is good too I think, depending on how one means it.....we could say we are also clean by association with the Spirit who lives in us. It is His presence that sanctifies us.

We still need to have our feet washed periodically even though we have been sanctified and had the bath. Washing of the feet is associated with the Lord's supper....I will try to share what I believe that is showing in a day or two, Lord willing. Yes, I think if one is walking in the Spirit 24/7/365 they might not need to have their feet washed. But until/unless that is the case, washing of our feet is part of how we are getting there.

 

[Episkopos]

Bible says Jesus LEARNED obedience by the things which He suffered....and then was perfected by His death. And we are to follow in His footsteps.

Our death is at the cross....to be raised into eternal life (which is a kind of life). Jesus learned human righteousness....as we also do through our sufferings. Those who have suffered a lot tend to be more merciful towards others..so then the love your neighbour commandment becomes easier.

Jesus did NOT learn the righteousness of God. This should clue you in....perhaps...to the nature of the walk in both righteousness AND holiness. Jesus was ALWAYS holy. But He did temporal things in order to fulfill ALL righteousness.

I can bring a bunch of scriptures to this effect but have to go out today.

I know you can. But learning to understand them is even better!

From what I can see I think we need to focus on likewise obeying and following the Lord and He will do what is needed..........I can't speak to your situation but seeking an "experience" doesn't always bode well in my observation.

Not seeking an experience...but seeking God. Do a study in seeking God. See if this is encouraged or disparaged.

There's a difference between seeking the Lord and His will and seeking experiences.

Of course. Only foolish people seek something FROM God as opposed to God Himself. Here we see the difference between those who have a lamp but no oil...those who have NOT gone to God to buy the full measure of grace.

Hint. God wants us to GO TO HIM.

 

[Ritajanice]

◄ 1 Corinthians 6:11 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. New Living Translation Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. English Standard Version And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Berean Standard Bible And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Berean Literal Bible And some of you were such. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. King James Bible And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.