What is the Abrahamic Covenant?

[tim_from_pa]

What is the Abrahamic Covenant?If we look to many definitions of it, basically people say that it is about 1) land, and a 2) chosen seed. However, there is more, much more.I will show what the Abrahamic Covenant is, who it went to by birthright, and ultimately the purpose (hence the message of the Bible). We’ve been thru this before, but since I feel that this has to be dinned into some heads (and I will spare the swinging 20-pound bag of rocks for now), I will reiterate what God has to say about it and make bold the key words. Let’s look at some promises to Abraham:Genesis 12:1-3:Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a LAND that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great NATION, and I will BLESS THEE, and make THY NAME GREAT; and thou SHALT BE A BLESSING: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and IN THEE SHALL ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED.Genesis 13:15-16:For all the LAND which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to THY SEED FOR EVER.And I will make thy seed as the DUST OF THE EARTH: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.In this passage, we have physical seed “as the dust of the Earth”, but nothing of faith is mentioned. This seed is plural.Genesis 15:5-6:And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the STARS, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, SO SHALL THY SEED BE.And he believed in the LORD; and he COUNTED IT TO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.In this passage, we have spiritual seed compared to the stars of heaven. When He believed God this demonstrated the faith aspect of it like the New Covenant. Paul clearly taught that these promises antedated the Law as the means of receiving them were by faith.Genesis 17:5-8:As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of MANY NATIONS.Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and KINGS shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an EVERLASTING COVENANT, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the LAND of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.Genesis 21:12:And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in ISAAC SHALL THY SEED BE CALLED.Genesis 22:16-18:And said, BY MYSELF have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will BLESS THEE, and in multiplying I will MULTIPLY THY SEED as the stars of the heaven, and as the SAND which is upon the sea shore; and thy SEED (plural) shall POSSES THE GATE of his enemies; And in thy SEED (singular--Christ) shall all the NATIONS of the earth be BLESSED; because thou hast obeyed my voice.All these promises were passed down from father to son as the birthright. From these verses along we can indisputably conclude the following (which is the definition of the birthright):A specific land was to be givenA great nation was to come from himA great nameHe was to be blessed and a source of blessingMany physical seedMany Spiritual seedMany nationsMany kingsA son of promise by whom this would be carried outThey would posses the gates of their enemiesThere was to be one seed by whom was the source of that blessing This was understood and reiterated to be everlasting and unconditional covenants (I say plural because there were many things promised).WHO DID IT GO TO?To save time, I will just rattle it off, but your bible clearly says it: All this went to Isaac (the child of promise), Jacob, and most of it to Jacob’s son Joseph. Judah retained the scepter and law-giving functions only in Genesis 49. So Judah has the “kings” part of the promise, Joseph has the Birthright, Thus it is Judah’s Scepter, Joseph’s Birthright. These are two distinct people and which became two distinct nations of God’s people.Lastly, what was the purpose? The purpose is contained in the promises themselves: to be a blessing to the fallen world. Isaiah compares Israel to being a light to the Gentiles. They were to teach God’s Laws and Ways. Failing to keep the Law (which was a schoolmaster as Paul taught) Israel accepted grace in the wilderness and became the traditionally Christian nations of today in NW Europe, Great Britain, the myriads of Commonwealth nations, and the United States.Israel never rejected the gospel since they were not in Palestine when Christ was there. Only Judah (“His own”) were there when He came to earth. His message was then given to the “lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL or to put it another way, the “Other sheep, not of this fold” (the Jews are “this” fold)Each had separate destinies to fulfill, but one day God will put His two chosen nations back together again as Ezekiel 37 states.The Jews are merely half of the coin, but the birthright tribe of Joseph technically is not Jewish, neither were they around in the land of Israel at Christ’s first coming.This is a brief introduction to this complex topic. But any discerning eyes can see that these covenants have BOTH elements of the earthly and physical fulfillment, and also a spiritual component.

 

[tim_from_pa]

The crux of the Abrahamic covenant and the last line I mentioned in the previous post is that there are two (earthly and spiritual) types of promises and being chosen. One cannot be confused with the other but they are dependent on each other to carry out God's plan and purpose thru the ages.

 

[Follower]

(tim_from_pa;55144)
Each had separate destinies to fulfill, but one day God will put His two chosen nations back together again as Ezekiel 37 states.
Many people are so busy looking for physical fulfillment that they sometimes miss the spiritual fulfillment. Could Jesus have already joined the two nations? In Christ, there is no Jew or Gentile.People think the two nations must be Judea and Israel. Those two nations served as spiritual examples of separation. But, for a literal fulfillment, both those peoples (Jews and Israelites) have been lost.The Bible is about something bigger than a small tribe of people.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Many people are so busy looking for physical fulfillment that they sometimes miss the spiritual fulfillment.
They are intertwined. Both Israel and the church have vital functions.
The Bible is about something bigger than a small tribe of people.
Well, not exactly a small tribe. For God's Word to be true, they have to be a great population size actually. They have to be a great nation and many nations with Kings ruling. In addition, the bible is a book about Israel.

 

[Alpha and Omega]

I heard some people state that once the Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled then we have 7 years before the return of Jesus. The fulfilling of the covenant would be the Jews and Muslims building a temple on the temple mount and then the 7 final years would comence.Does this have any biblical backing?

 

[Follower]

(Alpha and Omega;60589)
I heard some people state that once the Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled then we have 7 years before the return of Jesus.
The Abrahamic covenant was fullfilled almost 2000 years ago. Hebrews 8:6-13

 

[Alpha and Omega]

(Follower;60590)
The Abrahamic covenant was fullfilled almost 2000 years ago. Hebrews 8:6-13
I must be thinking of something else then.What about building the temple on the temple mount and starting sacrificing animals again?

 

[Follower]

(Alpha and Omega;60614)
What about building the temple on the temple mount and starting sacrificing animals again?
You may be thinking of one view of Daniel's prophecy of 70 Weeks. This is the prophesy that predicted Christ's ministry and sacrifice to the year. In the middle of the final week (7 years), sacrifices are ended. So, if you think this is still yet to come, the Temple needs to be rebuilt, sacrifices resumed, and then sacrifices cut off in the middle of the 7 years. And, after the 7 years ends, so ends the prophesy.

 

[tim_from_pa]

(Follower;60590)
The Abrahamic covenant was fullfilled almost 2000 years ago. Hebrews 8:6-13
Then explain to us please how Genesis 35:11 was fulfilled 2000 years ago.The Hebrews passage is dealing with the New Covenant now being written on their hearts and has to do with personal salvation and elect of grace, and ultimately the salvation of many in the millennial Kingdom. The Abrahamic Covenant also has a national and royal component to it, and indeed is the physical manifestation of God's Kingdom thru Israel by whom (both in Christ and Israel) comes the means of grace.

 

[Follower]

(tim_from_pa;60633)
Then explain to us please how Genesis 35:11 was fulfilled 2000 years ago.
In Genesis 25:11, God extends the promise he made to Abraham to Jacob. Abraham was still living by faith when he died. He did not receive the things promised; he only saw and welcomed them from a distance. He said he was a stranger on Earth. A man who would say that is not looking for land here, but is looking for a better country - a heavenly one. Abraham was promised that he would be heir of the world. The promise does not come through the law, but by faith. Nearly 2000 years ago, Jesus laid down his life so that those who believe will be made heirs to the promise given to Abraham and Jacob. Through the blood of Jesus Christ we have been brought near to receiving what Abraham saw from only a distance. We were once excluded from citizenship in Israel, now we have a better country to go to when we leave this land.

 

[Jordan]

(Follower;60636)
(tim_from_pa;60633)
Then explain to us please how Genesis 35:11 was fulfilled 2000 years ago.
In Genesis 25:11, God extends the promise he made to Abraham to Jacob.Abraham was still living by faith when he died. He did not receive the things promised; he only saw and welcomed them from a distance. He said he was a stranger on Earth. A man who would say that is not looking for land here, but is looking for a better country - a heavenly one.Abraham was promised that he would be heir of the world. The promise does not come through the law, but by faith.Nearly 2000 years ago, Jesus laid down his life so that those who believe will be made heirs to the promise given to Abraham and Jacob. Through the blood of Jesus Christ we have been brought near to receiving what Abraham saw from only a distance. We were once excluded from citizenship in Israel, now we have a better country to go to when we leave this land.You know, Tim and Follower (since I quoted both of you) You know I tend to agree with Tim as I'm seeing that not all sons of Abraham will accept Christ as Saviour. So a person from the elect of race can still be spiritually blind and hate God. Is not Ishmael a son of Abraham? Is not Esau a son of Abraham? Is Jacob, a son of Abraham? Ishmael is the father of the Arabs which has Muslim countries, Esau is Russia, Jocab is Israel, so you see here... Abraham is indeed the father of many nations, whether that nation is good or bad.Here is a verse

Prove? Well one of the verse indicate that a person may be in a elect of race can still be spiritually blind and hate God.John 8:37 - I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

 

[logabe]

From the beginning, the earth has been man's inheritance under God. God owns the earth by right of creation, but He was the Creator, not the inheritor. To be an inheritor, one must receive it from another who has died. Since God had no predecessor, it cannot strictly be said that the earth is His inheritance. The earth is man's inheritance. The lawful process of giving us the inheritance began when Jesus died on the cross. Hebrews 9:15-17 says, 15 And for this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, in order that since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a covenant [testament] is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. When a man dies, his “last will and testament” is read to the inheritors. A testament is not in force (activated) until the testator dies. Only then will the trustees read it to them and begin to dispense it's provisions. The first testament's trustees were the Aaronic priests. But they failed as Executors of the will in their assigned task of dispersing the first will properly, God replaced them with a new Order of priesthood, the Melchizedek Order. These are now the Executors of His will. Their job is the same as what God gave to Abraham in Gen. 12:3, 3 And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. Abraham's seed was to dispense the blessings of God to “all the families of the earth.” Each family had its own inheritance, though not all families would have the same inheritance. Each nation, each family, and each individual has his own particular calling, and so the will provides each person with the means to fulfill his calling. But the Executors of the will have a special calling to dispense the inheritance of God's Estate to the beneficiaries. Logabe

 

[Follower]

(Jordan;60641)
You know, Tim and Follower (since I quoted both of you) You know I tend to agree with Tim as I'm seeing that not all sons of Abraham will accept Christ as Saviour. So a person from the elect of race can still be spiritually blind and hate God. Is not Ishmael a son of Abraham? Is not Esau a son of Abraham? Is Jacob, a son of Abraham? Ishmael is the father of the Arabs which has Muslim countries, Esau is Russia, Jacob is Israel, so you see here... Abraham is indeed the father of many nations, whether that nation is good or bad.
If there were an elect race, Arabs, Russians, and others would belong to it. I think Adam was one of the elect, so that makes the whole human race the elect. There are some people who believe in universal salvation, and some that believe in universal salvation of Jews. But, I do no believe in universal salvation. God chose Isaac, not Ishmael, because there is no elected race.
Here is a verse

Prove? Well one of the verse indicate that a person may be in a elect of race can still be spiritually blind and hate God.John 8:37 - I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
The elect of God may be wrong in the details, but they do not hate God. Jesus explains that those Jews who hate God may have genealogical record to show that Abraham is their ancestor, but Jesus explains that they are not children of Abraham according to the promise. It is by faith that we are children of Abraham. There is no Jew or gentile in the promise.

 

[Christina]

TimGreat Topic it is the lack to understand this covenant that is one of biggest failures to understanding Gods plan and scripture. The more I study the more I have seen this shown to us over and over it is vitial one come to understand this covenant or one will never understand Gods plan.

 

[Jordan]

(Follower;60653)
(Jordan;60641)
You know, Tim and Follower (since I quoted both of you) You know I tend to agree with Tim as I'm seeing that not all sons of Abraham will accept Christ as Saviour. So a person from the elect of race can still be spiritually blind and hate God. Is not Ishmael a son of Abraham? Is not Esau a son of Abraham? Is Jacob, a son of Abraham? Ishmael is the father of the Arabs which has Muslim countries, Esau is Russia, Jacob is Israel, so you see here... Abraham is indeed the father of many nations, whether that nation is good or bad.
If there were an elect race, Arabs, Russians, and others would belong to it. I think Adam was one of the elect, so that makes the whole human race the elect. There are some people who believe in universal salvation, and some that believe in universal salvation of Jews. But, I do no believe in universal salvation. God chose Isaac, not Ishmael, because there is no elected race.Adam is just the starter for Christ to come through. And no, no, and NO, Adam is not the first person ever lived on Earth, the whole human race was not all by him. And of course God chose Issac. No one is disagreeing with that. But Ishmael and Esau are still both sons of Abraham...regardless. So Abraham is indeed the father of many nations as scripture told us.(Follower;60653)
(Jordan;60641)
Here is a verse

Prove? Well one of the verse indicate that a person may be in a elect of race can still be spiritually blind and hate God.John 8:37 - I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
The elect of God may be wrong in the details, but they do not hate God. Jesus explains that those Jews who hate God may have genealogical record to show that Abraham is their ancestor, but Jesus explains that they are not children of Abraham according to the promise. It is by faith that we are children of Abraham. There is no Jew or gentile in the promise.Do you know why they are not working by the works of their "father" Abraham? Because their true father is Satan and Cain.

 

[tim_from_pa]

If there were an elect race, Arabs, Russians, and others would belong to it. I think Adam was one of the elect, so that makes the whole human race the elect.
Show me scripture to support that and I'll show you mine. There is an elect race of Israel. Paul made that abundantly clear in Romans 9.
The elect of God may be wrong in the details, but they do not hate God. Jesus explains that those Jews who hate God may have genealogical record to show that Abraham is their ancestor, but Jesus explains that they are not children of Abraham according to the promise. It is by faith that we are children of Abraham. There is no Jew or gentile in the promise.
Your concept of election is so cork-screwed up that I don't even know where to begin with such a statement.Again, the passage you quote has to do with elect of grace open to all. It is possible to be elected by God, given the promises and yet perish. If the genealogical record shows that they are children of Abraham, then they are indeed inheritors of the promises. But these are worldly promises I'm trying to convey here.Apparently you see the coin with heads face up and then assume there is no other side just because you can't see it. I'm pointing out the side facing down.Your confusion comparing election with salvation is what I perceive is the root of the problem here.

 

[Christina]

There seems to be lack to hear what Tim is trying to show you here Lets understand a couple of points God chose out a people they called themselves Hebrews, however they were the same line that had been set aside in the Garden they were the descendants of Adam,Noah,Isaac,Abraham,Jacob (the same line Messiah would come through) These people would be promised/given a land and a promise (covenant) These people God choose would come to be known as the 12 twelve tribes (12 sons of Jacob who was renamed Israel) collectively come to be called Jews. However they would not stay a group. Just because they would be separated does not mean God broke his promise. Ten of the tribes were scattered lost as we say today lost means they forgot their history they were lost in Jewish history, Does anyone think for a moment God lost them? That God could not keep track of a part of his chosen people? God knows exactly who they are where they are. Now God has said he has foretold us all things and he has including who these people are and what he will use them for. God gave all 12 tribes a promise and he will keep his promise what most fail to understand is the promise was split as the tribes were split. The tribes were split 10 and 2 ... The promise was split in two parts The Birthright..and the ScepterUnderstanding this splitting of the tribes and the promise is the key to understanding Gods plan. We are told the spilt 12 tribes (divided 10 and 2) were each given a different fate each half is called a stick ..two sticks are of the one branch God has broken the branch into two sticks we call the two sticks Christian and Jew Both are of the chosen people both have a part of the promise. Both will be reunited at the coming of the Lord. The Ten scattered tribes (one stick) would come to be Christians and Christian Nations called Israel in prophecyThe Two (second stick) would come to be called Judah in prophecy and are who we call Jews today Both are Gods chosen people both have apart of the promise both will be Joined togetherEze. 37:15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all. This is the rejoining of the 12 Tribes the Wole House of Israel, made up of Christian and Jew the chosen people joined together under Christ to become the true Church, The Bride. 23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. This last verse clearly talking of after Christ returns not some past event.PSThe Birthright..and the Scepter... it might help in understanding this to see that one stick ..called Judah(Jews) that holds the Scepter was to keep the the Old Testament (the Law) the birthright was the other stick (called in prophecy Emphraim w/Mannash) was to preach the New Testament around the World. Untill a time when both will be brought together.PSSReuben lost his rights as firstborn by defiling Jacob’s bed (Genesis 35:22; 49:3-4). In Reuben and Joseph's place, Joseph’s two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, became tribes of Israel (Genesis 48:5-6). As a result, the twelve tribes became Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Ephraim and Manasseh. (In some other lists of the twelve tribes of Israel, Levi is not mentioned, presumably because the Levites were assigned to serve at the temple and therefore were not apportioned land of their own in Israel (Joshua 14:3).It is the details of this plan of God Tim is trying to show you

 

[logabe]

The covenant with Abraham was to establish THROUGH WHOM the Kingdom of God would spread throughout the earth. With Abraham, God began a new method of operation in the earth. He “elected” and began to form His own nation, designated as the means by which “all the families of the earth” would be blessed (Gen. 12:3).God’s idea of election was never meant to be an exclusive salvation for the benefit of just a few. Election, as clearly portrayed by God’s dealing with Abraham, shows it to be more on the line of political election. In other words, it is a part of God’s government, a hierarchy of authority levels on the earth. God elects men to fill those positions of authority in order to serve mankind. Election and calling determines one’s ability to serve mankind, for God equips His servants to do the job He calls them to do. Hence, the highest callings are upon those who are servants of all.All authority comes with an equal measure of responsibility. This is because authority is not a privilege to be enjoyed in and of itself. It has a purpose. It is given in order to empower men to bless others with salvation (in its broadest sense). And so God’s election cannot be viewed as most people have in the past. God does NOT elect a few to be saved, and elect others to be tormented or annihilated eternally. Rather, He elects a few to bring the blessings and the word of reconciliation to the greater mass of people.And so God elected one man, Abraham, and his descendants after him as a beginning point. God’s plan was to employ them first to bring His Word and His Spirit to the rest of the world, to “all the families of the earth.” Of course, over the years many of them came to view themselves as slave owners, rather than as servants of God called to serve humanity. This is unfortunate, and such people will find themselves unemployed in the coming age of Tabernacles. God is not looking for rulers; He is looking for servants.Four hundred years after Abraham’s call, God made another covenant under Moses in order to establish accountability in the restoration process. In other words, it was not in God’s plan to save all of mankind by putting away the law and ignoring their disobedience. God established the law covenant in order that we might know that He will bring all men into accountability. He will certainly restore all of mankind, but not apart from the judgments of the law. The purpose of the law is to teach and train mankind by means of discipline, so that men may grow up into the full maturity of the stature of Christ.This is surely a wise and marvelous plan, lest men be rewarded for rebellion and disobedience.Logabe

 

[Follower]

(tim_from_pa;60659)
Show me scripture to support that and I'll show you mine. There is an elect race of Israel. Paul made that abundantly clear in Romans 9.
You have Romans 9 backwards. Paul is sad because his race is not the elect. He explains that Israel (the race) doesn't equal Israel (the elect), v39. Paul then points out what I have pointed out, if God's elect were a race, God would not have chosen Isaac over Ishmael. I don't know how much more point blank Paul could get than to say, "Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children."Read what the Lord Jesus has to say in John 8 and 9. Jordon has already quoted, "John 8:37 - I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you." Then what does Jesus say? Jesus says those descendants of Abraham are not Abraham's children. The Promise made to Abraham was not to his children in the flesh but to his children through Jesus Christ. Christians are the elect! (The core doctrine of Christianity.)
It is possible to be elected by God, given the promises and yet perish.
Then being elected is meaningless.
If the genealogical record shows that they are children of Abraham, then they are indeed inheritors of the promises.
Chapter and verse? You proved just the opposite with Romans 9.

 

[Follower]

(logabe;60702)
The covenant with Abraham was to establish THROUGH WHOM the Kingdom of God would spread throughout the earth. With Abraham, God began a new method of operation in the earth. He “elected” and began to form His own nation, designated as the means by which “all the families of the earth” would be blessed (Gen. 12:3).
It is a mundane form of election that Mary was chosen to be the mother of Jesus. In the same way, Abraham was chosen to be the (great... grand) father of Jesus. The Catholics err when they nearly deify Mary. Many Evangelicals make the same err with the Jews. In fact, the Evangelical err is much greater because Mary really was the elect of God, but God has elected no race.
God does NOT elect a few to be saved, and elect others to be tormented or annihilated eternally. Rather, He elects a few to bring the blessings and the word of reconciliation to the greater mass of people.
Then to whom belongs the promises? Is it the elect few or the greater number of people? Even in the mundane way, Abraham's race was not selected to bring greater blessings to the world. Remember, God chose Isaac over Abraham's son Ishmael. God chose the righteous, from within a family, from Abraham to Jesus. 99% of the Jewish population was not used as prophets, leaders, nor to bring Jesus in the flesh. I don't disagree with what you've said. Our differences might just be a matter of the definition of Elect. The elect are those to whom the promises belong, to me. To you, the elect are those God has chosen for leadership. So, is it your opinion that the bishops in the church are the elect but not the deacons?