What is the meaning of Grace, according to the Bible?

[David1701]

Animal sacrifices was works the priesthood had to do, because of sin. Paul said in (Gal. 6) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? You must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

Jesus said in (Matt. 16:24-27) (v.24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. That was the Lord’s burden, to die on the cross for the sins of man. Now as we read earlier every man must bear his own burden, and what is your burden? (v.25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. You must give up your life in this world; you must not get caught up in the cares of this world. You must bring forth-good fruits of faith by keeping God’s commandments, statues, and judgments. (v.26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

You must work to get salvation.

Eph. 2:8-10 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Randy Kluth]

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

We agree on this brother but does nothing to answer the questions I asked you. Again, I was speaking of what *justifies* us--not what is important as resulting from our Justification. After all, if we are not Justified, then there is no use obeying God's laws at all, because it will never suffice to reconnect us to God.

 

[bro.tan]

We agree on this brother but does nothing to answer the questions I asked you. Again, I was speaking of what *justifies* us--not what is important as resulting from our Justification. After all, if we are not Justified, then there is no use obeying God's laws at all, because it will never suffice to reconnect us to God.

Paul says in (Heb. 10:35-39) (v.35) Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. (v.36) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. You must have patience when dealing with the word of God. And you must do the will of God, which is the keeping of his law, if you expect to receive the promise, which is eternal life in the kingdom of God, which will be established on this earth. (v.37) FOR YET A LITTLE WHILE, AND HE THAT SHALL COME WILL COME, AND WILL NOT TARRY. (v.38) NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. What does Paul mean by if any man draw back? You mean that you can draw back. According to the apostle Paul you can. Just as you choose by your own free will to start serving the lord, you can by that same free will stop serving the lord or as Paul put it draw back. (v.39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. That’s what you must do, you must have faith (believe) unto the saving of the soul. And your soul is not saved as soon as you start to believe on Jesus, salvation is works in progress, not a one step solution.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

 

[bro.tan]

Eph. 2:8-10 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You can't go around picking verses out the Bible that lines up with your doctrine. Rightly dividing the truth starts from Genesis to Revelation.

Two different types of works you don't understand. Let's quote the one you post....

Eph. 2:8-10 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Paul says in (Heb. 10:35-39) (v.35) Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompense of reward. (v.36) For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. You must have patience when dealing with the word of God. And you must do the will of God, which is the keeping of his law, if you expect to receive the promise, which is eternal life in the kingdom of God, which will be established on this earth. (v.37) FOR YET A LITTLE WHILE, AND HE THAT SHALL COME WILL COME, AND WILL NOT TARRY. (v.38) NOW THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: BUT IF ANY MAN DRAW BACK, MY SOUL SHALL HAVE NO PLEASURE IN HIM. What does Paul mean by if any man draw back? You mean that you can draw back. According to the apostle Paul you can. Just as you choose by your own free will to start serving the lord, you can by that same free will stop serving the lord or as Paul put it draw back. (v.39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. That’s what you must do, you must have faith (believe) unto the saving of the soul. And your soul is not saved as soon as you start to believe on Jesus, salvation is works in progress, not a one step solution.

Nevertheless, in judgment each one of us will give account for our own salvation. Therefore, we must not let anyone lead us down the wrong path, but should verify all of our teaching with the holy bible. YOUR SALVATION IS AT STAKE! "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12).

Unbelievable! I ask you questions about Justification and you simply go on to claim that we must obey God's commandments! As I've told you, obeying God is not the issue when we speak of Justification. It is clear from Scriptures that our obedience does *not* Justify us. Instead, our obedience reveals a spotty record, and just a single sin can keep us out of heaven, just as one sin kept Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden. A single sin disqualifies us from remaining in God's presence. And so, obedience *cannot* Justify us!

But you completely ignore this and prefer to just drone on about obedience--something we would all agree on, ignoring the most important matter of Justification. It is important because without Justification obedience continues to keep us out of God's presence, not just now but forever. We must live by Grace, and not by the record of our performance. We must perform yes, but that is *not* the basis of our Justification.

So, the issue is not obedience, which we all agree is important to show our faith. And I wouldn't at all say that faith is cheap and excludes obedience. Rather, obedience is the means of showing our faith. So, faith justifies us by showing our obedience as well as by showing that we are trusting in Christ's work as the basis of our Justification.

But when we place our obedience in the Law of Moses we are determining that we are relying on a system designed to show our flaws, as opposed to relying on Christ who bases our relationship with God on His mercy. If we place our obedience in a Law that utilizes outdated means of temporary justification, then we nullify our dependence on Christ himself, who alone can provide permenant Justification.

So, what is it--reliance on the Law of Moses, with its exclusion of dependence on Christ, or obedience that shows our reliance on Christ? This is what you obscure in your constant droning on about the need to obey. You avoid the issue of Justification altogether by making faith something less than it really is, as if it excludes obedience to God.

It does not. Obedience to God's word is what upholds and supports our faith. And it is faith in Christ alone that Justifies. Obedience without Christ cannot possibly Justify anybody.

When you make something under the Law of Moses, such as Sabbath Law, the basis of our Justification, you are excluding Christ and his obedience as the basis of our Salvation. We cannot earn, by Sabbath obedience, Eternal Life. Rather, Christ obtained for us Eternal Life by virtue of His own personal holiness and willingness to grant to us God's mercy and grace. You don't seem to understand this?

Obedience is indeed important, but only to show our reliance upon Christ. It is Christ who Justifies, and not our record of obedience.

 

[bro.tan]

Unbelievable! I ask you questions about Justification and you simply go on to claim that we must obey God's commandments! As I've told you, obeying God is not the issue when we speak of Justification. It is clear from Scriptures that our obedience does *not* Justify us. Instead, our obedience reveals a spotty record, and just a single sin can keep us out of heaven, just as one sin kept Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden. A single sin disqualifies us from remaining in God's presence. And so, obedience *cannot* Justify us!

A single sin you say. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

But you completely ignore this and prefer to just drone on about obedience--something we would all agree on, ignoring the most important matter of Justification. It is important because without Justification obedience continues to keep us out of God's presence, not just now but forever. We must live by Grace, and not by the record of our performance. We must perform yes, but that is *not* the basis of our Justification.

Paul says in Romans 6: 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

So, the issue is not obedience, which we all agree is important to show our faith. And I wouldn't at all say that faith is cheap and excludes obedience. Rather, obedience is the means of showing our faith. So, faith justifies us by showing our obedience as well as by showing that we are trusting in Christ's work as the basis of our Justification.

But when we place our obedience in the Law of Moses we are determining that we are relying on a system designed to show our flaws, as opposed to relying on Christ who bases our relationship with God on His mercy. If we place our obedience in a Law that utilizes outdated means of temporary justification, then we nullify our dependence on Christ himself, who alone can provide permenant Justification.

So, what is it--reliance on the Law of Moses, with its exclusion of dependence on Christ, or obedience that shows our reliance on Christ? This is what you obscure in your constant droning on about the need to obey. You avoid the issue of Justification altogether by making faith something less than it really is, as if it excludes obedience to God.

It does not. Obedience to God's word is what upholds and supports our faith. And it is faith in Christ alone that Justifies. Obedience without Christ cannot possibly Justify anybody.

When you make something under the Law of Moses, such as Sabbath Law, the basis of our Justification, you are excluding Christ and his obedience as the basis of our Salvation. We cannot earn, by Sabbath obedience, Eternal Life. Rather, Christ obtained for us Eternal Life by virtue of His own personal holiness and willingness to grant to us God's mercy and grace. You don't seem to understand this?

Obedience is indeed important, but only to show our reliance upon Christ. It is Christ who Justifies, and not our record of obedience.

Let’s go to Proverbs 16: 2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; But the LORD weigheth the spirits. 3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, And thy thoughts shall be established. 5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: Though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished. 6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: And by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.

Let’s go into Ecclesiastes 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Paul said in (Gal. 6) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.