Hi Guys ^‿^ I am a new member, and I am a Muslim. I have quoted some verses of Quran that mention Christianity, prophet Jesus, and the Trinity. You may be curious to know what Muslims read in Quran about these topics. Surah5. Al-Maa’idah [17] In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His Will were to destroy Al-Masih the son of Maryam, his mother, and all, everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." [18] (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of Allah, and His beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men, of the men He hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)." [19] O People of the Book! now hath come unto you, making (things) clear unto you, Our Messenger, after the break in (the series of) Our Messengers, lest ye should say: "There came unto us no bringer of glad tidings and no warner (from evil)"; but now hath come unto you a bringer of glad tidings and a warner (from evil). And Allah hath power over all things. Surah5. Al-Maa’idah [72] They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam." But said Al-Masih: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him the Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. [73] They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. [74] Why turn they not to Allah and seek His Forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [75] Al-Masih, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth! [76] Say: "Will ye worship, besides Allah, something which hath no power either to harm or benefit you? But Allah, He it is that heareth and knoweth all things." [77] Say: "O People of the Book! exceed not in your religion the bounds (of what is proper), trespassing beyond the truth, nor follow the vain desires of people who went wrong in times gone by, who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the even Way. [78] Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of Dawud and of 'Isa, the son of Maryam, because they disobeyed and persisted in Excesses. ------------ Surah5. Al-Maa’idah [82] Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. [83] And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses[84] "What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?" [85] And for this their prayer hath Allah rewarded them with Gardens, with rivers flowing underneath, their eternal home. Such is the recompense of those who do good. Surah5. Al-Maa’idah [110] Then will Allah say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it, and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the Unbelievers among them said: `This is nothing but evident magic.' [111] "And behold! I inspired the Disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger; they said, `We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims.'" [112] Behold! the Disciples said: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! can thy Lord send down to us a Table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said 'Isa: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith." [113] They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou has indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle." [114] Said 'Isa the son of Maryam: "O Allah our Lord! send us from heaven a Table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a Sign from Thee; and provide for our sustenance, for Thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)." [115] Allah said: "I will send it down unto you; but if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples." [116] And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. [118] "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servants: if Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise." Surah9. At-Tawbah [30] The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Al-Masih the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the Unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! [31] They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Al-Masih, the son of Maryam; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him). [32] Fain would they extinguish Allah's Light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His Light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). [33] It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it). [34] O ye who believe! There are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the Way of Allah. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the Way of Allah: announce unto them a most grievous penalty. [35] On the Day when heat will be produced out of that (wealth) in the fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their flanks, and their backs, "This is the (treasure) which ye buried for yourselves: taste ye, then, the (treasures) ye buried!"
What Quran says about Christianity.
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I read some of the Qu'ran enough to know that it is false. Islam is made by a guy name Muhammad who is a descendant of Ishmael, who is against Jocab, later named Israel. In short Islam is made by a human and not YHVH. And there is no religion created by YHVH either.And I believe this should go to the nonChristian forum section.
Hi Jordan ^‿^Actually, the Quran can't be written by Prophet Muhammad! Why would Prophet Muhammad ask people to believe in all Prophets though? Why Muslims would be obliged to believe in all the Prophets who came before Prophet Muhammad, and all the Holy Books before Quran.There are many incidents in the life of Prophet Muhammad that proves that he did not write the Quran. First of all that Prophet Muhammad was illiterate and he could not read and write. Actually, this is one of the miracles that Prophet Muhammad was illiterate but he taught the humanity!One incident that happened during the life of Prophet Muhammad is that the Jews wanted to test him by asking him about the seven sleepers in the cave (I think this story is known to you as well). The Jews asked Prophet Muhammad two specific questions which are 1- How many boys were in the cave? 2- How long did they stay in the cave?Prophet Muhammad had no answers to the questions so he said that he will give them the answer tomorrow. But the Angel Gabriel did not come to Prophet Muhammad until about one month. And Prophet Muhammad did not reply to the Jews all this time because he did not know the answer.So after a month the answers came from Quran.1- How many boys were in the cave?18. Al-Kahf (The Cave)[22] (Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth, doubtfully guessing at the unknown; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say thou: "My Lord knoweth best their number; it is but few that know their (real case)." Enter not, therefore, into controversies concerning them, except on a matter that is clear, nor consult any of them about (the affair of) the Sleepers. The answer for question one was not specified in Quran because the Jews themselves were not sure of the answer. Hence, if Quran says they were seven for example, some Jews would say no they were three or five and so on.After that God said to Prophet Muhammad18. Al-Kahf (The Cave)[23] Nor say of anything, "I shall be sure to do so and so tomorrow", [24] Without adding, "So please Allah!" and call thy Lord to mind when thou forgettest, and say, "I hope that my Lord will guide me ever closer (even) than this to the right road." So we learn from this that we should not say that I will do this or that tomorrow, but we have to say "God willing" I will do it.2- How long did they stay in the cave?18. Al-Kahf (The Cave)[25] So they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, and (some) add nine (more).Now if Prophet Muhammad did write the Quran, why would he wait for the Angel Gabriel to give him the answer from God?Actually, there are more incidents that prove with no doubt that the Quran is the words of God and not any human being.
Is there a modern English version of the Talmud? Maybe even a paraphrase? I don't know of any Christians who think the Trinity is three gods. How about equal time for the Talmud? What does it say about Jesus, Christians, and Christianity?
tomwebster
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Ready for Change?I could care less what Quran says about Christianity. The Quran has no bearing on anything. This is not a web site to teach your muslim beliefs.
(Ready for Change?;59956)
I think you better ask the Jews about the talmud!I am a Muslim ^‿^
Sorry, I assumed that you were a Christian because you were posting here. That is why I thought about equal time to the teachings of the Jewish holy book in regards to Christianity. I respect Islam and I do not judge your relationship with the one true God. But, I tell you, you are wrong in the details, even if you have a real fear of God. Mohammad is not a prophet of God. And, your submission to the perfect God can never be sufficient.
I think you better ask the Jews about the talmud!I am a Muslim ^‿^
Sorry, I assumed that you were a Christian because you were posting here. That is why I thought about equal time to the teachings of the Jewish holy book in regards to Christianity. I respect Islam and I do not judge your relationship with the one true God. But, I tell you, you are wrong in the details, even if you have a real fear of God. Mohammad is not a prophet of God. And, your submission to the perfect God can never be sufficient.
(Alpha and Omega;59963)
You say Mohammed was a prophet. Which prophecies did he say that came to pass?
A prophet is just someone who speaks for God, not necessarily someone who predicts the future.
You say Mohammed was a prophet. Which prophecies did he say that came to pass?
A prophet is just someone who speaks for God, not necessarily someone who predicts the future.
(Follower;59964)
A prophet is just someone who speaks for God, not necessarily someone who predicts the future.
OK then, are there any prophecies in the Quran that have come true?
A prophet is just someone who speaks for God, not necessarily someone who predicts the future.
OK then, are there any prophecies in the Quran that have come true?
(Alpha and Omega;59982)
OK then, are there any prophecies in the Quran that have come true?
Well, there are a lot of miracles and scientific evidences in Quran that prove that the Quran is the words of God, and not Prophet Muhammad.I hope you will spend sometime watching these videos about the miracles of Quran.Actually, there are 16 videos, and almost all of them are short videos from 1 to 6 minutes.Part 1 "Introduction"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sHiAGHFnzMU&feature=relatedpart 2 "The Creation of the Universe"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3iOy4rOeqQo&feature=relatedpart 3 "The Expansion of the Universe"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wGcD6v0WuTA&feature=relatedpart 4 "Orbits"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_f5Lp6eA48&feature=relatedpart 5 "The Protected Roof"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_BdbtDwcudA&feature=relatedpart 6 "The Returning Sky"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XgB0vng941U&feature=relatedpart 7 "The Layers of the Atmosphere"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=z1dzvfs0bqw&feature=relatedpart 8 "The Function of Mountians"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gpVXTonU87U&feature=relatedpart 9 "The Mystery of Iron"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_9xiIgOStvs&feature=relatedpart 10 "The Proportion of Rain"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sPzPyBx-TOc&feature=relatedpart 11 "The Seas Not Mingling with One Another"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zwyCfT02CZk&feature=relatedpart 12 "The Sex of a Baby"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yWY1in3Y70U&feature=relatedpart 13 "Fingerprints"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rs1V6_EZ-g&feature=relatedpart 14 "The Wrapping of Muscles Over the Bones"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zEthK2MHXSY&feature=relatedpart 15 "Three Stages of the Baby in the Womb"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e8mbkDDIHAI&feature=relatedpart 16 "Word Repetitions" + "Conclusion"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XG-g2Z0f0Sg&feature=related
OK then, are there any prophecies in the Quran that have come true?
Well, there are a lot of miracles and scientific evidences in Quran that prove that the Quran is the words of God, and not Prophet Muhammad.I hope you will spend sometime watching these videos about the miracles of Quran.Actually, there are 16 videos, and almost all of them are short videos from 1 to 6 minutes.Part 1 "Introduction"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sHiAGHFnzMU&feature=relatedpart 2 "The Creation of the Universe"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3iOy4rOeqQo&feature=relatedpart 3 "The Expansion of the Universe"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wGcD6v0WuTA&feature=relatedpart 4 "Orbits"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_f5Lp6eA48&feature=relatedpart 5 "The Protected Roof"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_BdbtDwcudA&feature=relatedpart 6 "The Returning Sky"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XgB0vng941U&feature=relatedpart 7 "The Layers of the Atmosphere"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=z1dzvfs0bqw&feature=relatedpart 8 "The Function of Mountians"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gpVXTonU87U&feature=relatedpart 9 "The Mystery of Iron"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_9xiIgOStvs&feature=relatedpart 10 "The Proportion of Rain"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sPzPyBx-TOc&feature=relatedpart 11 "The Seas Not Mingling with One Another"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zwyCfT02CZk&feature=relatedpart 12 "The Sex of a Baby"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yWY1in3Y70U&feature=relatedpart 13 "Fingerprints"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rs1V6_EZ-g&feature=relatedpart 14 "The Wrapping of Muscles Over the Bones"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zEthK2MHXSY&feature=relatedpart 15 "Three Stages of the Baby in the Womb"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e8mbkDDIHAI&feature=relatedpart 16 "Word Repetitions" + "Conclusion"http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XG-g2Z0f0Sg&feature=related
I watched most of those videos. Some of that knowledge could have come from the Old Testament, which Mohammad was familiar with. One of the videos shows the Koran saying God created the Heavens and the Earth (Does that sound familiar? The universe isn't eternal, as many pagans once thought). Some of the "scientific" claims that do not come from the Bible sound just plain wrong. For example, video 4 says the sun and moon orbit. The moon orbits. The sun doesn't. The video claims this reflects knowledge that the planets orbit (orbit what?). And, the video claims that this reflects knowledge that the sun has an orbit in the galaxy. But, every mention of the sun in the Koran makes it appear that the author thinks of the sun as something like the moon. Their movements are often spoken of together (as it is here). And, there are specific references to the sun moving relative to the Earth, such as "Allah brings the sun up from the east" or "He who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon: each moves swiftly in an orbit of its own."Mohammad thought the sun orbited the Earth. Even if Mohammad did have supernatural knowledge here, there's no way that anyone could know that because what he says fits so well with the geocentric view of the day.The Bible has been accused of teaching geocentrism. But, the verse cited only says that by a miracle of God, the sun stood still in the sky. That says nothing abort orbits, only that within the frame of the sky, the sun did not move.Islam is based on the Old Testament. Because of that, it does lack a lot of the beliefs about the universe of such absurdity that no one believes them any more, but that were common among atheist faiths before modern science. Now, of course, atheists have a bunch of new absurd beliefs.
(Follower;60050)
The Bible has been accused of teaching geocentrism. But, the verse cited only says that by a miracle of God, the sun stood still in the sky. That says nothing abort orbits, only that within the frame of the sky, the sun did not move.
Ecclesiastes 1:5"The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, And hastens to the place where it arose."1 Chronicles 16:30"Tremble before Him, all the earth. The world also is firmly established, It shall not be moved."To name a couple. The Bible seems to be clear enough on this point that there are people who still believe in geocentrism. Of course, we understand it to be a metaphor, but if you are to take that tactic, then you can't accuse the Qur'an of it either. I say this not to defend Islam, but merely to point out that both the Bible and Qur'an are sewn from bits of the same cloth.(Follower;60050)
Islam is based on the Old Testament. Because of that, it does lack a lot of the beliefs about the universe of such absurdity that no one believes them any more, but that were common among atheist faiths before modern science. Now, of course, atheists have a bunch of new absurd beliefs.
Atheists back in those days were few and far between - or at least, declared atheists were. I challenge you to name one "atheist faith" that held to a geocentric view of the earth. Or, for that matter, name one "atheist faith" that existed in the ancient world...
The Bible has been accused of teaching geocentrism. But, the verse cited only says that by a miracle of God, the sun stood still in the sky. That says nothing abort orbits, only that within the frame of the sky, the sun did not move.
Ecclesiastes 1:5"The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, And hastens to the place where it arose."1 Chronicles 16:30"Tremble before Him, all the earth. The world also is firmly established, It shall not be moved."To name a couple. The Bible seems to be clear enough on this point that there are people who still believe in geocentrism. Of course, we understand it to be a metaphor, but if you are to take that tactic, then you can't accuse the Qur'an of it either. I say this not to defend Islam, but merely to point out that both the Bible and Qur'an are sewn from bits of the same cloth.(Follower;60050)
Islam is based on the Old Testament. Because of that, it does lack a lot of the beliefs about the universe of such absurdity that no one believes them any more, but that were common among atheist faiths before modern science. Now, of course, atheists have a bunch of new absurd beliefs.
Atheists back in those days were few and far between - or at least, declared atheists were. I challenge you to name one "atheist faith" that held to a geocentric view of the earth. Or, for that matter, name one "atheist faith" that existed in the ancient world...
I will take a look at the videos in a while....however I would like to comment on the geocentric comments.I really do not know anymore what to think about it anymore...however just a curious thought I had. If the earth is spinning at a rapid pace 40 000 m/sec??? When a plane takes off from Toronto and is headed to Miami why does it land in Miami and not in Madrid? I mean if the earth is spinning why are all these planes landing in their destinations? Shouldn't that all be out of whack?Also the heliocentric model has the sun having a large orbit around the galaxy.
(Alpha and Omega;60066)
I really do not know anymore what to think about it anymore...however just a curious thought I had. If the earth is spinning at a rapid pace 40 000 m/sec??? When a plane takes off from Toronto and is headed to Miami why does it land in Miami and not in Madrid? I mean if the earth is spinning why are all these planes landing in their destinations? Shouldn't that all be out of whack?
Because the planes are spinning along with the earth - before they take off, while in the air, and after they land. It's the same reason why when you toss up a tennis ball while you're in a moving car, it doesn't fly way to the back of the car. Since you, your hand, and the ball were all moving along with the car, the ball can safely come straight up and straight down. Hope that helps
I really do not know anymore what to think about it anymore...however just a curious thought I had. If the earth is spinning at a rapid pace 40 000 m/sec??? When a plane takes off from Toronto and is headed to Miami why does it land in Miami and not in Madrid? I mean if the earth is spinning why are all these planes landing in their destinations? Shouldn't that all be out of whack?
Because the planes are spinning along with the earth - before they take off, while in the air, and after they land. It's the same reason why when you toss up a tennis ball while you're in a moving car, it doesn't fly way to the back of the car. Since you, your hand, and the ball were all moving along with the car, the ball can safely come straight up and straight down. Hope that helps
(jeffhughes;60073)
Because the planes are spinning along with the earth - before they take off, while in the air, and after they land. It's the same reason why when you toss up a tennis ball while you're in a moving car, it doesn't fly way to the back of the car. Since you, your hand, and the ball were all moving along with the car, the ball can safely come straight up and straight down. Hope that helps
The obvious problem here is that the wind does not effect the tennis ball. If the windows are closed. However if they are open then the tennis ball will move (If it is in the pathway of the wind). However, there is wind effecting the planes all the time.....its two different systems you are talking about here. The car is completely enclosed to the environment however the plane is not.
Because the planes are spinning along with the earth - before they take off, while in the air, and after they land. It's the same reason why when you toss up a tennis ball while you're in a moving car, it doesn't fly way to the back of the car. Since you, your hand, and the ball were all moving along with the car, the ball can safely come straight up and straight down. Hope that helps
The obvious problem here is that the wind does not effect the tennis ball. If the windows are closed. However if they are open then the tennis ball will move (If it is in the pathway of the wind). However, there is wind effecting the planes all the time.....its two different systems you are talking about here. The car is completely enclosed to the environment however the plane is not.
(jeffhughes;60054)
Ecclesiastes 1:5"The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, And hastens to the place where it arose."1 Chronicles 16:30"Tremble before Him, all the earth. The world also is firmly established, It shall not be moved."
The Koran makes both of those claims, as well. The difference is, the Koran mixes the idea of the sun rising with the sun orbiting. Nothing in the Bible indicates that Bible is speaking of anything other than perspective. Neither the Bible's or the Koran's statements on the firmness of the Earth imply anything about the Earth's position in space. The Bible's statement seems to be on the issue of man vs. Earth, not Earth vs. space.Even if you wish to disagree, Islam teaches that both those Bible verses are from God. You could claim they're corrupted, but there's no evidence of that.
To name a couple. The Bible seems to be clear enough on this point that there are people who still believe in geocentrism.
Popularity doesn't carry much weight with me, and even if it did, the geocentrists are a very small number.
Atheists back in those days were few and far between - or at least, declared atheists were.
Atheist, anyone who doesn't believe in the one true God. Witches, polytheists, etc. are atheists. The polytheists assigned events of nature to the gods, not in giving-credit-to-the-creator way "God causes the rain" but that there's someone with a big watering can. Even the people who tried to avoid supernatural explanations had all sorts of wrong natural beliefs, like the theories of spontaneous generation and aether. Geocentrism was probably nearly universal more than a few hundred years ago.
Ecclesiastes 1:5"The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, And hastens to the place where it arose."1 Chronicles 16:30"Tremble before Him, all the earth. The world also is firmly established, It shall not be moved."
The Koran makes both of those claims, as well. The difference is, the Koran mixes the idea of the sun rising with the sun orbiting. Nothing in the Bible indicates that Bible is speaking of anything other than perspective. Neither the Bible's or the Koran's statements on the firmness of the Earth imply anything about the Earth's position in space. The Bible's statement seems to be on the issue of man vs. Earth, not Earth vs. space.Even if you wish to disagree, Islam teaches that both those Bible verses are from God. You could claim they're corrupted, but there's no evidence of that.
To name a couple. The Bible seems to be clear enough on this point that there are people who still believe in geocentrism.
Popularity doesn't carry much weight with me, and even if it did, the geocentrists are a very small number.
Atheists back in those days were few and far between - or at least, declared atheists were.
Atheist, anyone who doesn't believe in the one true God. Witches, polytheists, etc. are atheists. The polytheists assigned events of nature to the gods, not in giving-credit-to-the-creator way "God causes the rain" but that there's someone with a big watering can. Even the people who tried to avoid supernatural explanations had all sorts of wrong natural beliefs, like the theories of spontaneous generation and aether. Geocentrism was probably nearly universal more than a few hundred years ago.
Ecclesiastes 1:5"The sun also rises, and the sun goes down,And hastens to the place where it arose."
I am aware that this says the sun orbits, however this was according to the observation of the time. However, lets also remember that not everything in the Bible is Revelation, for example in the book of Job a lengthy discourse is recorded and God only intervenes at the end. The same with the Ecclesiastes, its not a book of revelation, but the thougths of a very hearth broken individual about life and his experience who once was the a man of God but turned his way from the path of Yahweh.It is probably most correct to say that Ecclesiastes is inspired in its conclusion, rather than in every individual saying.
1 Chronicles 16:30"Tremble before Him, all the earth.The world also is firmly established,It shall not be moved."
That the earth is established does not necessarily indicate a flat earth or a earth ground in the bottom of space. It simply states in the ancient mindset that God is in control. Also we need to be careful not to mix between the actual earth, the land, which are on the waters, and the world as to the universe.
I am aware that this says the sun orbits, however this was according to the observation of the time. However, lets also remember that not everything in the Bible is Revelation, for example in the book of Job a lengthy discourse is recorded and God only intervenes at the end. The same with the Ecclesiastes, its not a book of revelation, but the thougths of a very hearth broken individual about life and his experience who once was the a man of God but turned his way from the path of Yahweh.It is probably most correct to say that Ecclesiastes is inspired in its conclusion, rather than in every individual saying.
1 Chronicles 16:30"Tremble before Him, all the earth.The world also is firmly established,It shall not be moved."
That the earth is established does not necessarily indicate a flat earth or a earth ground in the bottom of space. It simply states in the ancient mindset that God is in control. Also we need to be careful not to mix between the actual earth, the land, which are on the waters, and the world as to the universe.
Atheists back in those days were few and far between - or at least, declared atheists were. I challenge you to name one "atheist faith" that held to a geocentric view of the earth. Or, for that matter, name one "atheist faith" that existed in the ancient world...
I suggest that you read Lucretius from 50 BC, his book the Nature of the Universe, he was atheist and believed that the sun orbited the earth, from above and below it; fascinating reading
I suggest that you read Lucretius from 50 BC, his book the Nature of the Universe, he was atheist and believed that the sun orbited the earth, from above and below it; fascinating reading
(Follower;60081)
The Koran makes both of those claims, as well. The difference is, the Koran mixes the idea of the sun rising with the sun orbiting. Nothing in the Bible indicates that Bible is speaking of anything other than perspective.
Is there a place in the Bible that would lead you to believe that the writers of its books did not believe in the prevailing celestial theories of their day and age? You say later that geocentrism was "nearly universal". Would not the Israelites share this view?(Follower;60081)
Neither the Bible's or the Koran's statements on the firmness of the Earth imply anything about the Earth's position in space. The Bible's statement seems to be on the issue of man vs. Earth, not Earth vs. space.
Again, is there any place that would lead you to believe that they thought the earth to be hurtling through space?(Follower;60081)
Even if you wish to disagree, Islam teaches that both those Bible verses are from God. You could claim they're corrupted, but there's no evidence of that.
I'm not a Muslim, nor a Christian. I'm trying to say that they're both a load of bunk. I'm just trying to get you to see that when you condemn the Qur'an, you generally condemn the Bible right along with it.(Follower;60081)
Popularity doesn't carry much weight with me, and even if it did, the geocentrists are a very small number.
Oh I know, I was just letting you know that there are other Christians who would disagree with you and take a more literal stance on this issue.(Follower;60081)
Atheist, anyone who doesn't believe in the one true God. Witches, polytheists, etc. are atheists. The polytheists assigned events of nature to the gods, not in giving-credit-to-the-creator way "God causes the rain" but that there's someone with a big watering can. Even the people who tried to avoid supernatural explanations had all sorts of wrong natural beliefs, like the theories of spontaneous generation and aether. Geocentrism was probably nearly universal more than a few hundred years ago.
Ahh, okay. You are using a non-standard use of the term "atheist". Why not try a better one, like "pagan"? It's still not perfect, but using "atheist" to identify those who do not believe in the Abrahamic God is a little misleading. They still certainly believed in gods. (Elisha Kai;60084)
I am aware that this says the sun orbits, however this was according to the observation of the time. However, lets also remember that not everything in the Bible is Revelation, for example in the book of Job a lengthy discourse is recorded and God only intervenes at the end.
No I know, it's merely their observation. I was merely countering the claim that the Bible does not teach geocentrism. Perhaps it does not come out explicitly and say "This is how things are," but it's pretty obvious that the people who wrote the Bible didn't have miraculous knowledge from God about the astrophysical state of our universe. Just like those in the Qur'an did not either.(Elisha Kai;60084)
That the earth is established does not necessarily indicate a flat earth or a earth ground in the bottom of space. It simply states in the ancient mindset that God is in control.
Perhaps. But I think that if you had told those people that the earth was hurtling through space at thousands of miles per hour, they might be a little shaken as to whether God was really in control after all...(Elisha Kai;60085)
I suggest that you read Lucretius from 50 BC, his book the Nature of the Universe, he was atheist and believed that the sun orbited the earth, from above and below it; fascinating reading
Yes, I'm aware that there were a few Greek philosophers who were atheists. Greece was really the rise of the skeptic mindset, where philosophers questioned the nature of the gods and even their very existence. However, it was still somewhat of a dangerous topic at that time - especially since the common people believed very, well, religiously in their gods. But at any rate, atheism as a modern system of beliefs or whatever you want to call it didn't really come about until much later.
The Koran makes both of those claims, as well. The difference is, the Koran mixes the idea of the sun rising with the sun orbiting. Nothing in the Bible indicates that Bible is speaking of anything other than perspective.
Is there a place in the Bible that would lead you to believe that the writers of its books did not believe in the prevailing celestial theories of their day and age? You say later that geocentrism was "nearly universal". Would not the Israelites share this view?(Follower;60081)
Neither the Bible's or the Koran's statements on the firmness of the Earth imply anything about the Earth's position in space. The Bible's statement seems to be on the issue of man vs. Earth, not Earth vs. space.
Again, is there any place that would lead you to believe that they thought the earth to be hurtling through space?(Follower;60081)
Even if you wish to disagree, Islam teaches that both those Bible verses are from God. You could claim they're corrupted, but there's no evidence of that.
I'm not a Muslim, nor a Christian. I'm trying to say that they're both a load of bunk. I'm just trying to get you to see that when you condemn the Qur'an, you generally condemn the Bible right along with it.(Follower;60081)
Popularity doesn't carry much weight with me, and even if it did, the geocentrists are a very small number.
Oh I know, I was just letting you know that there are other Christians who would disagree with you and take a more literal stance on this issue.(Follower;60081)
Atheist, anyone who doesn't believe in the one true God. Witches, polytheists, etc. are atheists. The polytheists assigned events of nature to the gods, not in giving-credit-to-the-creator way "God causes the rain" but that there's someone with a big watering can. Even the people who tried to avoid supernatural explanations had all sorts of wrong natural beliefs, like the theories of spontaneous generation and aether. Geocentrism was probably nearly universal more than a few hundred years ago.
Ahh, okay. You are using a non-standard use of the term "atheist". Why not try a better one, like "pagan"? It's still not perfect, but using "atheist" to identify those who do not believe in the Abrahamic God is a little misleading. They still certainly believed in gods. (Elisha Kai;60084)
I am aware that this says the sun orbits, however this was according to the observation of the time. However, lets also remember that not everything in the Bible is Revelation, for example in the book of Job a lengthy discourse is recorded and God only intervenes at the end.
No I know, it's merely their observation. I was merely countering the claim that the Bible does not teach geocentrism. Perhaps it does not come out explicitly and say "This is how things are," but it's pretty obvious that the people who wrote the Bible didn't have miraculous knowledge from God about the astrophysical state of our universe. Just like those in the Qur'an did not either.(Elisha Kai;60084)
That the earth is established does not necessarily indicate a flat earth or a earth ground in the bottom of space. It simply states in the ancient mindset that God is in control.
Perhaps. But I think that if you had told those people that the earth was hurtling through space at thousands of miles per hour, they might be a little shaken as to whether God was really in control after all...(Elisha Kai;60085)
I suggest that you read Lucretius from 50 BC, his book the Nature of the Universe, he was atheist and believed that the sun orbited the earth, from above and below it; fascinating reading
Yes, I'm aware that there were a few Greek philosophers who were atheists. Greece was really the rise of the skeptic mindset, where philosophers questioned the nature of the gods and even their very existence. However, it was still somewhat of a dangerous topic at that time - especially since the common people believed very, well, religiously in their gods. But at any rate, atheism as a modern system of beliefs or whatever you want to call it didn't really come about until much later.
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