What's up with Mathew and Lukes genealogies of Jesus? Why are they so different?

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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Starting this thread because of Wick Stick's posts in Has the church got Genesis all wrong?

And his reply #77 in which he said
I'm not Rella, but... they aren't the same, and they both claim to trace Jesus' lineage through Joseph.

Additionally, Matthew uses a series of names that look very suspicious... he basically re-iterates the names of the patriarchs in the generations just before Jesus. Matthew's genealogy seems to put emphasis on counting the number of generations, which ties into some of the intertestamental prophecies.

Now... perhaps this will help confuse things even more.


You need to see the entire link above to read the entire article of explanation.

It is far too long and would require multiple posts to get it here.

Basic Highlights are
~~~~~~~~~
Traditional Christian scholars (starting with Africanus and Eusebius[3]) take both lineages to be true, offering various explanations for their divergence.[4] For instance, one (usually Matthew's) may be taken to be the lineage of Joseph and the other (usually Luke's) of Mary, or one may be Jesus' customary legal lineage and the other his biological blood lineage. These versions can also fit the gospels' simultaneous account of Jesus' virgin birth of Mary alone, with Joseph being merely his legal adoptive father; both Joseph and Mary are taken to be David's descendants.

Matthew 1:117 begins the Gospel with "A record of the origin of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham: Abraham begot Isaac, ..." and continues on until "... Jacob begot Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ."

See chart in link where you will see The total of 42 generations is achieved only by omitting several names, so the choice of three sets of fourteen seems deliberate.

Luke's genealogy[edit]​

In the Gospel of Luke, the genealogy appears at the beginning of the public life of Jesus. This version is in ascending order from Joseph to Adam.[15] After telling of the baptism of Jesus, Luke 3:23–38 states, "Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli, ..." (3:23) and continues on until "Adam, which was [the son] of God." (3:38) The Greek text of Luke's Gospel does not use the word "son" in the genealogy after "son of Joseph". Robertson notes that, in the Greek, "Luke has the article tou repeating uiou (Son) except before Joseph".[16]

This genealogy descends from the Davidic line through Nathan, who is an otherwise little-known son of David, mentioned briefly in the Old Testament.[17]

In the ancestry of David, Luke agrees completely with the Old Testament. Cainan is included between Arphaxad and Shelah, following the Septuagint text (though not included in the Masoretic Text followed by most modern Bibles).

Augustine[18] notes that the count of generations in the Book of Luke is 77, a number symbolizing the forgiveness of all sins.[19] This count also agrees with the seventy generations from Enoch[20] set forth in the Book of Enoch, which Luke probably knew.[21] Though Luke never counts the generations as Matthew does, it appears he also followed hebdomadic principle of working in sevens. However, Irenaeus counts only 72 generations from Adam.[22]

The reading "son of Aminadab, son of Aram", from the Old Testament is well attested. The Nestle-Aland critical edition, considered the best authority by most modern scholars, accepts the variant "son of Aminadab, son of Admin, son of Arni",[23] counting the 76 generations from Adam rather than God.[24]

Luke's qualification "as was supposed" (ἐνομίζετο) avoids stating that Jesus was actually a son of Joseph, since his virgin birth is affirmed in the same gospel. Some view that "as was supposed of Joseph" regards Luke as calling Jesus a son of Eli—meaning that Heli (Ἠλί, Heli) was the maternal grandfather of Jesus, with Luke tracing the ancestry of Jesus through Mary, his nearest blood relative, while listing Heli’s son-in-law Joseph rather than Mary in order to maintain the patriarchal structure of the genealogy.[25] D. A. Carson calls this reading "painfully artificial" and would not likely be deduced by readers.[26] Likewise R. P. Nettelhorst calls this reading "unnatural and forced.[27] There are other interpretations of how this qualification relates to the rest of the genealogy. Some see the remainder as the true genealogy of Joseph, despite the different genealogy given in Matthew.[28]

The Church Fathers held that both accounts are true. Eusebius of Cesarea, in his Church history, dedicates the 7th chapter of the first book to that issue, arguing that the divergences are based on whether one is considered as being father by nature or by law. Similarly, in his book An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, John Damascene argues that Heli of the tribe of Nathan died childless, and Jacob of the tribe of Solomon took his wife and raised up seed to his brother and begat Joseph, in accordance with scripture, namely, yibbum (the mitzvah that a man must marry his brother's childless widow); Joseph, therefore, is by nature the son of Jacob, of the line of Solomon, but by law he is the son of Heli of the line of Nathan.[29]

(see the link for further divergence comments)

You further will see

Maternal ancestry in Luke​


Maternal ancestry in Matthew​


Lukan version of Levirate marriage theory​


Panther​

Legal inheritance​


And more.
 

Wick Stick

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Paul says in two places that genealogies aren't important (1Timothy 1:4, Titus 3:9). One of Jesus' major doctrinal points was that a man's heredity is proven by his actions (John 8), and the true children of Abraham are the ones who act like Abraham.

So, if genealogies are unimportant and heredity is best determined by looking at a person's deeds...

Is there a different purpose for the genealogies? I think so.

Matthew and Luke both go to some lengths to show how Jesus fulfilled prophecy, and I think this is the real purpose for both genealogies.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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Paul says in two places that genealogies aren't important (1Timothy 1:4, Titus 3:9). One of Jesus' major doctrinal points was that a man's heredity is proven by his actions (John 8), and the true children of Abraham are the ones who act like Abraham.

So, if genealogies are unimportant and heredity is best determined by looking at a person's deeds...

Is there a different purpose for the genealogies? I think so.

Matthew and Luke both go to some lengths to show how Jesus fulfilled prophecy, and I think this is the real purpose for both genealogies.
Yes, Jarrod.

I agree 100%.

No matter who says what... and I dont have time at the moment to post what was said but Jesus had to have his blood line go back to David... and what I always read was it did on both Mary's and his adopted dad. Joseph's
side based on 2 different sons from.... (Sorry... senior moment forgetting)

But then I read that Wiki mess and I am beginning to confirm my own suspicions that we definitely are meant to be confused.... At least I am.
 

Taken

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What's up with Mathew and Lukes genealogies of Jesus? Why are they so different?

Some points…
* Jesus was biologically related to no one.
* Jesus’ relationship to king David, ie the House of David, was per mans law;
* being Jesus the legal son of Joseph and Mary.
* Joseph and Mary were “betrothed”, which meant “promised”, “engaged”, to become wedded.
* Divorce in Mosaic Law, was “breaking off of a “promise” a “betrothal” to wed.
* Mary received in her virgin womb, “The Word of God, in the fashion as an “earthly, human” man; a body God Prepared”.
BEFORE Joseph and Mary were Wed (Married).
* The “babe” in her Womb, HAD TO BE,
…** legally born. OF THE HOUSE of David, to Legally BE considered, TO (at some point), sit in King David’s Throne.
* (God established King David’s Throne, AS AN Everlasting Throne. (2 Sam 7:16)

Doesn’t matter, IF King David’s Throne (physically does not exist) or the position has been Vacant, it still exists. And shall be one day Occupied by Christ the Lord Jesus…(ie 1,000 year reign).

.
I would lean toward the seemingly Different Genealogies are….
* showing each: Joseph’s direct genealogical Line and Mary’s direct genealogical Line to the House of David.

I would suppose the importance would be to RULE OUT, any question of ENTITLEMENT for Jesus to Occupy King David’s Throne.
ESPECIALLY, because Mary WAS pregnant, BEFORE they were Wed, (Married).

If they HAD been Married, Joseph and Mary, would have (in the usual marriage contract), consummated their Marriage with “knowing each other”…”becoming one”…ie having sex.
As ONE, Joseph’s direct genealogical line to the House of David would have legally satisfied inclusion of Mary, and would have been legally sufficient for “THEIR” Legal offspring to be entitled to sit on King David’s Throne.

* It is well know, they Wed, she lived with Joseph, she was his wife. They traveled together to register (per Roman law requirement) of the same household, as man and wife, they lodged in a stable together, on the night the babe was born.

* It is also well known, they COULD NOT consummate their Marriage, (according to Gods direction and the law and their agreement) UNTIL AFTER the birth of the babe, already known it would be a “son”.

* Gods requirement was to wait until AFTER the birth of the son.
* Mosaic/Jewish Law, requirement was to wait a particular number of days after the birth of ( a son) / also a daughter….
BEFORE the husband and wife would “KNOW” one another.

* Fact is it would have been close to 10 or more months that Joseph and Mary would consummate their Marriage.

* Why (some people) believe, Joseph and Mary NEVER consummated their Marriage….IS weird, and completely Against what God taught regarding husbands and wives to “multiply”… and the LAW, for wives to submit to their husbands.

* I believe Scripture reveals the direct genealogical lines of both Joseph’s and Mary’s tie to the House of David (Because they Were NOT Married at the time Mary was discovered pregnant)… to appease ALL doubt whether or not, their offspring JESUS, is Lawfully Entitled to sit in King David’s Throne.

* He is and He SHALL sit in King David’s Throne as KING over all kings in the world..
(Ie 1,000 year reign, while mortals still exist upon the face of the Earth. After Mortals are extinct….He shall reign Forever.)


Glory to God,
Taken
 

Mark51

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Starting this thread because of Wick Stick's posts in Has the church got Genesis all wrong?

And his reply #77 in which he said


Now... perhaps this will help confuse things even more.


You need to see the entire link above to read the entire article of explanation.

It is far too long and would require multiple posts to get it here.

Basic Highlights are
~~~~~~~~~
Traditional Christian scholars (starting with Africanus and Eusebius[3]) take both lineages to be true, offering various explanations for their divergence.[4] For instance, one (usually Matthew's) may be taken to be the lineage of Joseph and the other (usually Luke's) of Mary, or one may be Jesus' customary legal lineage and the other his biological blood lineage. These versions can also fit the gospels' simultaneous account of Jesus' virgin birth of Mary alone, with Joseph being merely his legal adoptive father; both Joseph and Mary are taken to be David's descendants.

Matthew 1:117 begins the Gospel with "A record of the origin of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham: Abraham begot Isaac, ..." and continues on until "... Jacob begot Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ."

See chart in link where you will see The total of 42 generations is achieved only by omitting several names, so the choice of three sets of fourteen seems deliberate.

Luke's genealogy[edit]​

In the Gospel of Luke, the genealogy appears at the beginning of the public life of Jesus. This version is in ascending order from Joseph to Adam.[15] After telling of the baptism of Jesus, Luke 3:23–38 states, "Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was [the son] of Heli, ..." (3:23) and continues on until "Adam, which was [the son] of God." (3:38) The Greek text of Luke's Gospel does not use the word "son" in the genealogy after "son of Joseph". Robertson notes that, in the Greek, "Luke has the article tou repeating uiou (Son) except before Joseph".[16]

This genealogy descends from the Davidic line through Nathan, who is an otherwise little-known son of David, mentioned briefly in the Old Testament.[17]

In the ancestry of David, Luke agrees completely with the Old Testament. Cainan is included between Arphaxad and Shelah, following the Septuagint text (though not included in the Masoretic Text followed by most modern Bibles).

Augustine[18] notes that the count of generations in the Book of Luke is 77, a number symbolizing the forgiveness of all sins.[19] This count also agrees with the seventy generations from Enoch[20] set forth in the Book of Enoch, which Luke probably knew.[21] Though Luke never counts the generations as Matthew does, it appears he also followed hebdomadic principle of working in sevens. However, Irenaeus counts only 72 generations from Adam.[22]

The reading "son of Aminadab, son of Aram", from the Old Testament is well attested. The Nestle-Aland critical edition, considered the best authority by most modern scholars, accepts the variant "son of Aminadab, son of Admin, son of Arni",[23] counting the 76 generations from Adam rather than God.[24]

Luke's qualification "as was supposed" (ἐνομίζετο) avoids stating that Jesus was actually a son of Joseph, since his virgin birth is affirmed in the same gospel. Some view that "as was supposed of Joseph" regards Luke as calling Jesus a son of Eli—meaning that Heli (Ἠλί, Heli) was the maternal grandfather of Jesus, with Luke tracing the ancestry of Jesus through Mary, his nearest blood relative, while listing Heli’s son-in-law Joseph rather than Mary in order to maintain the patriarchal structure of the genealogy.[25] D. A. Carson calls this reading "painfully artificial" and would not likely be deduced by readers.[26] Likewise R. P. Nettelhorst calls this reading "unnatural and forced.[27] There are other interpretations of how this qualification relates to the rest of the genealogy. Some see the remainder as the true genealogy of Joseph, despite the different genealogy given in Matthew.[28]

The Church Fathers held that both accounts are true. Eusebius of Cesarea, in his Church history, dedicates the 7th chapter of the first book to that issue, arguing that the divergences are based on whether one is considered as being father by nature or by law. Similarly, in his book An Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, John Damascene argues that Heli of the tribe of Nathan died childless, and Jacob of the tribe of Solomon took his wife and raised up seed to his brother and begat Joseph, in accordance with scripture, namely, yibbum (the mitzvah that a man must marry his brother's childless widow); Joseph, therefore, is by nature the son of Jacob, of the line of Solomon, but by law he is the son of Heli of the line of Nathan.[29]

(see the link for further divergence comments)

You further will see

Maternal ancestry in Luke​


Maternal ancestry in Matthew​


Lukan version of Levirate marriage theory​


Panther​

Legal inheritance​


And more.
v
Joseph’s linage is from David, Matthew’s account is not a true “blood line” because Jesus did not have a biological father. However, his step-father was also from the linage of David. In Luke’s account, Joseph is identified as the son of Heli-although being Mary’s father. According to Jewish custom, daughters were not identified in genealogical records. Joseph is identified because of his marriage to Mary. This was important for inheritance rights under Jewish customs.

Most important, Luke identified Nathan (David’s son) in Mary’s linage-1 Chronicles 3:5. In other words, the “blood line” was through Mary.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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v
Joseph’s linage is from David, Matthew’s account is not a true “blood line” because Jesus did not have a biological father. However, his step-father was also from the linage of David. In Luke’s account, Joseph is identified as the son of Heli-although being Mary’s father. According to Jewish custom, daughters were not identified in genealogical records. Joseph is identified because of his marriage to Mary. This was important for inheritance rights under Jewish customs.

Most important, Luke identified Nathan (David’s son) in Mary’s linage-1 Chronicles 3:5. In other words, the “blood line” was through Mary.
Correct. Jesus was covered .