Where is the dividing line?

[prism]

What's wrong with these two?

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Christian church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
*******************or something like this?******************
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

I would also make a divide between those who don't hold to Scripture as fully God breathed and those who do.

 

[aspen]

What's wrong with these two?

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Christian church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
*******************or something like this?******************
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.
And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

I would also make a divide between those who don't hold to Scripture as fully God breathed and those who do.

I believe all three.

 

[lawrance]

Scripture is just that, Christ is more than just only scripture.
When one comes to a true understanding of what the trinity is really all about, then you will be enlighten with the gravity of it. i would agree with prism before i came to understand it all, so i understand where prism is coming from.
I find it's better not to listen to what other's say about bagging the trinity as an authority helps, because they have no understanding at all. and i know this for a fact because i did not know my self once. but it's about with you your self seeking and you will then find. Don't be to belligerent about it and you will come to understanding.
I see the understanding of the Trinity was a gift from God to me, and it's was a great gift.

 

[Episkopos]

Here is a worthwhile creed that can unite everyone...

I believe in one Earth and one Sun and tthe Earth travels around the Sun. I believe in other planets that also travel around the Sun.

So does this creed change the world??? Does someone who disagrees with the creed above not belong to the Earth?

 

[tomwebster]

Here is a worthwhile creed that can unite everyone...

I believe in one Earth and one Sun and tthe Earth travels around the Sun. I believe in other planets that also travel around the Sun.

So does this creed change the world??? Does someone who disagrees with the creed above not belong to the Earth?

So you do not believe there are planets travelling around other stars?

 

[aspen]

Here is a worthwhile creed that can unite everyone...

I believe in one Earth and one Sun and tthe Earth travels around the Sun. I believe in other planets that also travel around the Sun.

So does this creed change the world??? Does someone who disagrees with the creed above not belong to the Earth?

Well, if you were living during the Enlightenment, it would have.

 

[jiggyfly]

I would also make a divide between those who don't hold to Scripture as fully God breathed and those who do.

Scripture yes, translation no.

 

[IanLC]

Belief in the Father "YHWH"
Belief in God's existance, power, works, & word
Belief in Yeshua Jesus the Christ-Son of God, Saviour of Mankind, Redeemer, High Priest, King of Kings, Messiah
Belief in Jesus' life, existance, power, birth, ministry, word, death, resurrection, ascension, second comming
Belief in the Holy Spirit
Belief in the Holy Spirit's existance, power, ministry, word
Living a holy and sanctified life unto God

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The trinity is not polytheism at all.
If anyone thinks it is, they have no idea what they are on about , they are totally lost on the subject.
Any church group etc that rejects the trinity is being lead by foolish ignorant noobs.
It's a disgraceful worldly position to bag the trinity as it shows one's contempt for who Christ is and who we are.

This comment is nonsensical to me. The doctrine that God is three distinct persons has always seemed extraordinarily bizarre to me. I just don't believe it; and it really has nothing to do with salvation. We are all made in the image of God; and we all have a spirit, soul, and body. Is each one of us three persons? God the son (body) is the visible form of the invisible father God (soul), and the spirit makes them one (perhaps that's not the right way to say it, but that is the general idea). To say this shows contempt for Christ is, like I said, nonsensical.

 

[aspen]

To our modern minds it is much more offensive to conceive of a God that does not make sense than it is to simply believe that God has three personalities or that there are three Gods. Think about how arrogant this approach is....if God who is beyond our understanding does not make sense to our small minds then, instead of accepting it, we reject the paradox.

To the early church, one filled with monotheists, it was unheard of to suggest that Jesus was another God. It was just as repugnant to claim that God changed into Jesus who changed into the Holy Spirt or modalism, because God never changes.

The only correct way to recognize the divinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit without rejecting the truth of monotheism was to conceive of God as a complex mystery or the Trinity. In this orthodox construct, all personages revealed to us are both One and Divine.

It is true that the Trinity is paradoxical, but it is not nonsensical except to people who want to reject it. Anyone with a shred of imagination can conceived of God in three (mind, heart, and soul, perhaps?) - all God, but all individual personages (God is so real that any divided part is whole). All personages of the same God are in perfect relationship with each other - same purpose, mind, heart, will and love for each other - in fact, all three reflect each other perfectly.

I am not saying that the Trinity is anything like a worm, but think about this for a minute - if a simple worm can divide and produce a perfect genetic copy of itself and a whole separate being - it cannot be too difficult to image God as a Trinity.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is true that the Trinity is paradoxical, but it is not nonsensical except to people who want to reject it. Anyone with a shred of imagination can conceived of God in three (mind, heart, and soul, perhaps?) - all God, but all individual personages (God is so real that any divided part is whole). All personages of the same God are in perfect relationship with each other - same purpose, mind, heart, will and love for each other - in fact, all three reflect each other perfectly.

The first sentence is your opinion. I reject the idea of separate persons because it is nonsensical, not to my mind, but to my spirit. My carnal mind can conceive the idea of multiple Gods. "Anyone with a shred of imagination can conceive" of multiple Gods. That is the essence of ancient pagan religions.

 

[aspen]

The first sentence is your opinion. I reject the idea of separate persons because it is nonsensical, not to my mind, but to my spirit. My carnal mind can conceive the idea of multiple Gods. "Anyone with a shred of imagination can conceive" of multiple Gods. That is the essence of ancient pagan religions.

Every word on this board is opinion. Our spirits are not cognitive - your statement is nonsensical - you may as well be saying 'I reject the idea of separate persons because it is nonsensical to my emotions.'

It is easy to reject any orthodox teaching, but you do not offer an alternative that explains three divinities and one God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Our spirits are not cognitive - your statement is nonsensical - you may as well be saying 'I reject the idea of separate persons because it is nonsensical to my emotions.'

It is easy to reject any orthodox teaching, but you do not offer an alternative that explains three divinities and one God.

If you think spirit and emotions are equivalent, or that the spirit is not cognitive, you are not even on first base yet.

As regarding your second comment, you apparently must not have very good reading comprehension.

btw, before this conversation devolves into a thread hijacking, if you want to continue this discussion please start a trinity post.

 

[aspen]

If you think spirit and emotions are equivalent, or that the spirit is not cognitive, you are not even on first base yet.

As regarding your second comment, you apparently must not have very good reading comprehension.

When did I say our spirits and emotions are equivalent? Perhaps you need to check your reading comprehension.

I rejected your convoluted spirit, soul, and body construct because it is not Christian. Spirit + body = soul is the correct, Christian understanding. Mixing the soul with the spirit is mixing Hellenism (Plato) with Christianity.

We were created in God's imagine in our ability to love one another.

 

[lawrance]

This comment is nonsensical to me. The doctrine that God is three distinct persons has always seemed extraordinarily bizarre to me. I just don't believe it; and it really has nothing to do with salvation. We are all made in the image of God; and we all have a spirit, soul, and body. Is each one of us three persons? God the son (body) is the visible form of the invisible father God (soul), and the spirit makes them one (perhaps that's not the right way to say it, but that is the general idea). To say this shows contempt for Christ is, like I said, nonsensical.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit imply a Divine unity inseparable equality of one and the same substance and that consequently there are not three gods, but one God, although since the Father 'begot', the Son is not therefore the one who is Father.
Similarly, since it is the Son who is 'begotten', the Father is not the one who is Son, nor is the Holy Spirit ether Father or Son but only the Spirit of Father and Son, though he is co-equal with the Father and Son and belong to the same Unity of the Trinity.

Do you comprehend that ? if you do then one should see that calling the Son the Father is not corrrect.

 

[aspen]

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit imply a Divine unity inseparable equality of one and the same substance and that consequently there are not three gods, but one God, although since the Father 'begot', the Son is not therefore the one who is Father.
Similarly, since it is the Son who is 'begotten', the Father is not the one who is Son, nor is the Holy Spirit ether Father or Son but only the Spirit of Father and Son, though he is co-equal with the Father and Son and belong to the same Unity of the Trinity.

Do you comprehend that ? if you do then one should see that calling the Son the Father is not corrrect.

Nicely stated!

Also, we are called to go out and make disciples in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit imply a Divine unity inseparable equality of one and the same substance and that consequently there are not three gods, but one God, although since the Father 'begot', the Son is not therefore the one who is Father.
Similarly, since it is the Son who is 'begotten', the Father is not the one who is Son, nor is the Holy Spirit ether Father or Son but only the Spirit of Father and Son, though he is co-equal with the Father and Son and belong to the same Unity of the Trinity.

Do you comprehend that ? if you do then one should see that calling the Son the Father is not corrrect.

I comprehend what you're saying, but don't agree with it; which makes me realize even more that the trinity should not be included in a divisional creed because (1) it has nothing to do with salvation, and (2) from what I've read, I consider you a godly person.

The son is the father's first and only born (begotten) man. All other men are born of Adam. I am not calling the son the father, but they are both God; just as I don't call your body your soul, even though they are both you. I'm not sure if equality is an edifying term to describe the relationship between the components of God's threefold nature. Regarding the father and son: the holy spirit only speaks of the father and the son only speaks what the spirit says. Regarding the son: the holy spirit only speaks of the son and the sons of God only speak what the spirit says. So even though they all are one there is not a hierarchical equality between the father, spirit and son, just as there is not a hierarchical equality between your soul, spirit and body even though they are all one. Holiness reigns when this authority hierarchy is observed; and sin reigns when it isn't.

 

[aspen]

I comprehend what you're saying, but don't agree with it; which makes me realize even more that the trinity should not be included in a divisional creed because (1) it has nothing to do with salvation, and (2) from what I've read, I consider you a godly person.

The son is the father's first and only born (begotten) man. All other men are born of Adam. I am not calling the son the father, but they are both God; just as I don't call your body your soul, even though they are both you. I'm not sure if equality is an edifying term to describe the relationship between the components of God's threefold nature. Regarding the father and son: the holy spirit only speaks of the father and the son only speaks what the spirit says. Regarding the son: the holy spirit only speaks of the son and the sons of God only speak what the spirit says. So even though they all are one there is not a hierarchical equality between the father, spirit and son, just as there is not a hierarchical equality between your soul, spirit and body even though they are all one. Holiness reigns when this authority hierarchy is observed; and sin reigns when it isn't.

Your post sounds a bit convoluted; nonsensical, perhaps?

Jesus is God and He prayed to His Father. They were both God and yet separate. And Jesus told His followers that He was going to send the Holy Spirit to encourage and lead them on; the same Holy Spirit that descended upon the separate Jesus during His Baptism to the separate Father in Heaven.

Hmm....how do we explain three separate divinities who interact with each other in a perfect relationship so close that they still fit the definition of One. Wait! I've got it! They are a Trinity! One God that fits the definition of monotheism and recognizes 3 distinct personages.