Why are Christians leaving their churches?

[Bruce-Leiter]

Did you receive the gift of tongues, Bruce?

No, my situation in established churches didn't need that gift. When I became a pastor, God gave me the gifts of preaching and teaching, which were needed in those situations. After all, in the three places where Paul gave lists of the gifts (Rome, Ephesus, and Corinth), he listed the gift of tongues only in one of them (the last one). Thus, he must have been describing the spiritual gifts in those churches. As a result, not all Christians need to have the gift of tongues.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

That's not what Jesus said... He said we would know them by their fruits

Are you fruity?





Ah yes, ye olde reformed twisting of scripture pops up yet again

Okay, I have a family member who has all the fruits of believers, but he has never felt a connection with Jesus. He accepts Christian values but not the personal relationship with God. The teens who have wandered away from the faith may or not be saved. We can never see their hearts the way God can.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

As a result, not all Christians need to have the gift of tongues

The Lord desires for all to have this gift in operation in their private prayer life.

The thing about not all speaking in tongues is speaking of public services where an interpreter is present... not all do this in a public setting.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered in articulate speech.

Groanings - from G4726, which comes from G4726 (Strong's Greek Concordance)

to sigh, murmur, pray inaudibly: KJV -- with grief, groan, grudge, sigh.

Inarticulate speech, or speech that is not in any known language to man
(In 1 Corinthians 13:1, Paul speaks of talking in the the tongues of angels - a supernatural language)


1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:2 is speaking of our personal prayer language, which is something we do in our prayer closet and not in public.

Some have the gift of speaking a tongue in a public meeting for interpretation by another but should NOT be doing so if no interpreter is present.


1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

This is speaking of different kinds of tongues and that some have the gift of interpretation of tongues.

Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues for interpretation in a public setting like a church service... but that does not mean all don't have the gift of tongues for their private prayer life in their prayer closet between themselves and the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost

1 Corinthians 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all

Paul is indicating here that ALL should speak in tongues referring to personal prayer since not all pray in tongues in a public setting where an interpreter is present.

Isaiah 28:11,12
For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people,
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

There is a rest and knowledge that comes thru speaking in tongues
(the knowledge received has to agree with God's written Word, otherwise it's not the Holy Spirit speaking)

1 Corinthians 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[Triumph1300]

The Lord desires for all to have this gift in operation in their private prayer life.

But it's not a requirement for salvation, as some denominations think it is.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

The Lord desires for all to have this gift in operation in their private prayer life.

The thing about not all speaking in tongues is speaking of public services where an interpreter is present... not all do this in a public setting.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh NOT unto men, but unto God: for NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered in articulate speech.

Groanings - from G4726, which comes from G4726 (Strong's Greek Concordance)

to sigh, murmur, pray inaudibly: KJV -- with grief, groan, grudge, sigh.

Inarticulate speech, or speech that is not in any known language to man
(In 1 Corinthians 13:1, Paul speaks of talking in the the tongues of angels - a supernatural language)


1 Corinthians 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:2 is speaking of our personal prayer language, which is something we do in our prayer closet and not in public.

Some have the gift of speaking a tongue in a public meeting for interpretation by another but should NOT be doing so if no interpreter is present.


1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

This is speaking of different kinds of tongues and that some have the gift of interpretation of tongues.

Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues for interpretation in a public setting like a church service... but that does not mean all don't have the gift of tongues for their private prayer life in their prayer closet between themselves and the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost

1 Corinthians 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all

Paul is indicating here that ALL should speak in tongues referring to personal prayer since not all pray in tongues in a public setting where an interpreter is present.

Isaiah 28:11,12
For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people,
To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

There is a rest and knowledge that comes thru speaking in tongues
(the knowledge received has to agree with God's written Word, otherwise it's not the Holy Spirit speaking)

1 Corinthians 14:22
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

@Dan Clarkson, You wrote, "Not all have the gift of speaking in tongues for interpretation in a public setting like a church service... but that does not mean all don't have the gift of tongues for their private prayer life in their prayer closet between themselves and the Lord.

1 Corinthians 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost

1 Corinthians 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all

Paul is indicating here that ALL should speak in tongues referring to personal prayer since not all pray in tongues in a public setting where an interpreter is present."

Where specifically do you find the command that every believer should speak in tongues in their private prayers? It isn't in the three verses you cite. I speak to the Lord in my prayers all day long. Praying "in the Holy Ghost" doesn't mean tongues necessarily. Such prayers can be praise, thanks, confession, prayers for others, prayers for ourselves, tongues, and laments.

My goal is to fulfill Paul's command in 1 Thessalonians 5:17, "Pray without ceasing." Paul didn't say we are to seek praying in tongues. If you can find such a command, tell me.