Why did Jesus Christ speak ini parables? Is it only the wise that will make it His kingdom?
Why Did Jesus Christ Speak Ini Parables?
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Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
YES! Why? I know there are very wise people here that have studied so much - please
tell us what you have found out from the scholars you've read! Or from personal insights.
Thank you so much.
Miss HepburnI will also ask a very smart friend and see what he writes back...what great question Judd, thank you.
Jesus spoke in parables for He knew that only those that had ears to hear would understand. The religiouys couldnt hear because they where worldly and not spiritaul and couldnt understand the things of God, as like the desciples in the begging, they where being led out f a religios sytem soon to become spiritual as Jesus was So in the begginig when they walked in the flesh they could not understand, even after Jesus death they where fighting took a while for them to get sorted out. You want to understand the things of God then you have to be willing to be emptied of ones self and all that religios stuff thats being shoved in to your head for so long. just like a hardrive format and oprtaing sytem reinstall. Gof needs to fill us witth Himself, and He cant do that if we are filled with our opinions.
In His Love
In His Love
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Jesus spoke in parables in order to jolt people our of their dualistic mindset (a primitive tool we use to determine right and wrong - a result of the Fall). The pharisees were a perfect example of rigid, dualistic, externally religious minded people. When they asked questions of people there was only one right answer; Jesus was different. His parables are not looking for one answer - instead they ask the listener / reader to practice perspective taking skills - all of the characters in his stories apply to the human experience and we are asked to place ourselves in all of their shoes.
The result of His teachings invited a personal, internalized response for all who heard it, rather than a dogmatic, religious response. Jesus was teaching His followers to develop empathy for their neighbors, which eventually leads to love and service. They also communicated God's love for humanity and encourage us to love because we are loved by Him.
Peace
The result of His teachings invited a personal, internalized response for all who heard it, rather than a dogmatic, religious response. Jesus was teaching His followers to develop empathy for their neighbors, which eventually leads to love and service. They also communicated God's love for humanity and encourage us to love because we are loved by Him.
Peace
(Mat 13:10) And the disciples said to Him, Why do You speak to them in parables?
(Mat 13:11) He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them.
(Mat 13:12) For whoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance. But whoever does not have, from him shall be taken away even that which he has.
(Mat 13:13) Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not; nor do they understand.
(Mat 13:14) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which said, "By hearing you shall hear and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see and shall not perceive;
(Mat 13:15) for this people's heart has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes, lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
(Mat 13:16) But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear.
(Mat 13:17) For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them; and to hear what you hear, and have not heard them.
(Mat 13:34) Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable,
(Mat 13:35) so that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, "I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(Mat 21:45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that He spoke of them.
(Mar 3:22) And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, He has Beelzebub, and He casts out demons by the ruler of the demons.
(Mar 3:23) And He called them and said to them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
(Mar 3:24) And if a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
(Mar 3:25) And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
(Mar 3:26) And if Satan rises up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end.
(Mar 3:27) No one can enter into a strong one's house and plunder his goods, except he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.
(Mar 3:28) Truly I say to you, All sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and blasphemies with which they shall blaspheme.
(Mar 3:29) But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never shall have forgiveness, but is liable to eternal condemnation.
(Mar 3:30) Because they said, He has an unclean spirit.
(This one He explained to them. Unique. And it states why He did that this time.)
(Mar 4:11) And He said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God. But to those outside, all these things are given in parables
(Mar 4:12) so that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
(Mar 4:13) And He said to them, Do you not know this parable? And how then will you know all parables?
(Mar 4:33) And with many such parables He spoke the Word to them, as they were able to hear it.
(Mar 4:34) But he did not speak to them without a parable. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
(And the word previously stated that they were not able to understand it.)
(Luk 8:9) And His disciples asked Him, saying, What might this parable be?
(Luk 8:10) And He said, To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God. But to others I speak in parables, so that seeing they might not see and hearing they might not understand.
(Luk 8:11) And the parable is this: The seed is the Word of God.
(Joh 16:20) Truly, truly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. And you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
(Joh 16:21) The woman has grief when she bears, because her hour has come. But when she brings forth the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, because of the joy that a man is born into the world.
(Joh 16:22) And therefore you now have sorrow. But I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you.
(Joh 16:23) And in that day you shall ask Me nothing. Truly, truly, I say to you, Whatever you shall ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
(Joh 16:24) Before now you have asked nothing in My name; ask and you shall receive, that your joy may be full.
(Joh 16:25) I have spoken these things to you in parables, but the time is coming when I shall no more speak to you in parables, but I will show you plainly of the Father.
(Joh 16:26) At that day you will ask in My name; and I do not say to you that I will pray to the Father for you,
(Joh 16:27) for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came out from God.
(Joh 16:28) I came forth from the Father, and have come into the world. Again I leave the world and go to the Father.
(Joh 16:29) The disciples said to Him, Lo, now You speak plainly and speak no parable.
(Joh 16:30) Now we know that You know all things and do not need that anyone should ask You. By this we believe that You have come forth from God.
(Joh 16:31) Jesus answered them, Do you now believe?
That's why He spoke in parables. Scripture always has the correct answer, it would seem. And many of the parables, almost every single one of them, came from the OT. That's how the Pharisees knew that He spoke of them in certain parables, for they were based upon the OT parables that the OT people ignored and history showed the Pharisees what the result of that was, revealing the state of their heart to be just like their forefathers. The Pharisees didn't understand God or His ways, having no spiritual insight into such, being blind and hard hearted, but they sure understood when Christ spoke to them in parables about themselves. That begs the question as to how that could be, for they didn't understand the other parables, being blind spiritually. They studied the scriptures, but without God, and thus they knew the content (such as the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem), but not the spiritual insights. Thus, when Christ's parables in regard to them specifically were given as the OT parables about them were given, they recognized the content. That's how they knew that He was speaking of them. That fits Christ's statement on this fact that they wanted to kill Him for it, but were blind to the parables that gave spiritual insight about God.
And it would seem that the common belief of Christendom doesn't fit the scriptural answer for why He spoke in parables. Ever wonder why? Who's right: God or the "Christian" that tries to tell you their own take on it? So if God "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance", (2 Peter 3:9), then why would Christ speak in parables so that they people wouldn't understand and turn to God and repent and be saved?!!!!! This is NOT a contradiction in the word of God. So when we have people state contrary to these truths expressly stated in the word of God, or they ignore one statement and espouse the other only, they know not what they speak of, as it states elsewhere in the scriptures. And those scriptures have some very, very blunt and damning statements for such.
It would behoove us to seek the Lord, know His word, and not listen to those who speak that which is contrary to the very clear word of God, for such speak lies in hypocrisy, the Word says. Such statements are not the truth from God, so their only other option is that they are doctrines of demons, as the Word says.
It is fully imperative that we believe these statements with alacrity and no reservations whatsoever, as that is child-like faith. All else is a spiritual charade.
(Mat 13:11) He answered and said to them, Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of Heaven, but it is not given to them.
(Mat 13:12) For whoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance. But whoever does not have, from him shall be taken away even that which he has.
(Mat 13:13) Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not; nor do they understand.
(Mat 13:14) And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which said, "By hearing you shall hear and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see and shall not perceive;
(Mat 13:15) for this people's heart has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and they have closed their eyes, lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
(Mat 13:16) But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear.
(Mat 13:17) For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them; and to hear what you hear, and have not heard them.
(Mat 13:34) Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable,
(Mat 13:35) so that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, "I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(Mat 21:45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that He spoke of them.
(Mar 3:22) And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, He has Beelzebub, and He casts out demons by the ruler of the demons.
(Mar 3:23) And He called them and said to them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
(Mar 3:24) And if a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
(Mar 3:25) And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
(Mar 3:26) And if Satan rises up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end.
(Mar 3:27) No one can enter into a strong one's house and plunder his goods, except he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house.
(Mar 3:28) Truly I say to you, All sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and blasphemies with which they shall blaspheme.
(Mar 3:29) But he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never shall have forgiveness, but is liable to eternal condemnation.
(Mar 3:30) Because they said, He has an unclean spirit.
(This one He explained to them. Unique. And it states why He did that this time.)
(Mar 4:11) And He said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God. But to those outside, all these things are given in parables
(Mar 4:12) so that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
(Mar 4:13) And He said to them, Do you not know this parable? And how then will you know all parables?
(Mar 4:33) And with many such parables He spoke the Word to them, as they were able to hear it.
(Mar 4:34) But he did not speak to them without a parable. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
(And the word previously stated that they were not able to understand it.)
(Luk 8:9) And His disciples asked Him, saying, What might this parable be?
(Luk 8:10) And He said, To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God. But to others I speak in parables, so that seeing they might not see and hearing they might not understand.
(Luk 8:11) And the parable is this: The seed is the Word of God.
(Joh 16:20) Truly, truly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice. And you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
(Joh 16:21) The woman has grief when she bears, because her hour has come. But when she brings forth the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, because of the joy that a man is born into the world.
(Joh 16:22) And therefore you now have sorrow. But I will see you again, and your heart will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you.
(Joh 16:23) And in that day you shall ask Me nothing. Truly, truly, I say to you, Whatever you shall ask the Father in My name, He will give you.
(Joh 16:24) Before now you have asked nothing in My name; ask and you shall receive, that your joy may be full.
(Joh 16:25) I have spoken these things to you in parables, but the time is coming when I shall no more speak to you in parables, but I will show you plainly of the Father.
(Joh 16:26) At that day you will ask in My name; and I do not say to you that I will pray to the Father for you,
(Joh 16:27) for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came out from God.
(Joh 16:28) I came forth from the Father, and have come into the world. Again I leave the world and go to the Father.
(Joh 16:29) The disciples said to Him, Lo, now You speak plainly and speak no parable.
(Joh 16:30) Now we know that You know all things and do not need that anyone should ask You. By this we believe that You have come forth from God.
(Joh 16:31) Jesus answered them, Do you now believe?
That's why He spoke in parables. Scripture always has the correct answer, it would seem. And many of the parables, almost every single one of them, came from the OT. That's how the Pharisees knew that He spoke of them in certain parables, for they were based upon the OT parables that the OT people ignored and history showed the Pharisees what the result of that was, revealing the state of their heart to be just like their forefathers. The Pharisees didn't understand God or His ways, having no spiritual insight into such, being blind and hard hearted, but they sure understood when Christ spoke to them in parables about themselves. That begs the question as to how that could be, for they didn't understand the other parables, being blind spiritually. They studied the scriptures, but without God, and thus they knew the content (such as the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem), but not the spiritual insights. Thus, when Christ's parables in regard to them specifically were given as the OT parables about them were given, they recognized the content. That's how they knew that He was speaking of them. That fits Christ's statement on this fact that they wanted to kill Him for it, but were blind to the parables that gave spiritual insight about God.
And it would seem that the common belief of Christendom doesn't fit the scriptural answer for why He spoke in parables. Ever wonder why? Who's right: God or the "Christian" that tries to tell you their own take on it? So if God "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance", (2 Peter 3:9), then why would Christ speak in parables so that they people wouldn't understand and turn to God and repent and be saved?!!!!! This is NOT a contradiction in the word of God. So when we have people state contrary to these truths expressly stated in the word of God, or they ignore one statement and espouse the other only, they know not what they speak of, as it states elsewhere in the scriptures. And those scriptures have some very, very blunt and damning statements for such.
It would behoove us to seek the Lord, know His word, and not listen to those who speak that which is contrary to the very clear word of God, for such speak lies in hypocrisy, the Word says. Such statements are not the truth from God, so their only other option is that they are doctrines of demons, as the Word says.
It is fully imperative that we believe these statements with alacrity and no reservations whatsoever, as that is child-like faith. All else is a spiritual charade.
According to Mat 13:11 which says
Jesus Christ replied, " the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
Does this mean that God selects those who will have the knowledge of the secrets of heaven?
I will be happy to learn more on this.
Jesus Christ replied, " the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
Does this mean that God selects those who will have the knowledge of the secrets of heaven?
I will be happy to learn more on this.
Yes.
But that doesn't fit the beliefs of many. So how do we come to the only correct understanding regarding your question? Scripture alone.
Now that can be interesting, as people will quote scripture against pretrib and for pretrib, for example. They can't both be right, though!
And this topic is also disputed by so many, arguing back and forth until well after the cows have come home, to no profit of the hearers.
Stick with scripture. Make a list: in the first column, right down all the verse that speak of God selecting or prophibiting certain ones from having knowlege/salvation. Next, right down all the verses that would seem to speak of God saving "all", or giving insight to all. Next, write down all the verses that seem to speak to this topic, but can be taken either way, or seem to be somewhat ambiguous on it.
That's just the start. And that takes a lot of time and work. As usual, one cannot just do a word search or use the concordance, and find all of the passages that speak to this topic, just as in any topic in the word of God. So, start with word search and concordances, and go from there, but DO NOT LIMIT YOURSELF TO THESE PASSAGES ONLY. You must go through the scriptures (read/listen), and you wil come across many that speak to this topic directly, but don't use the words that come to mind for word searches and concordances. When you've done this, then study them out, comparing them, seeking the Lord. And the only correct answer fits all the scriptures together without any hitch whatsoever.
Until you've done this, you really have not studied it out as you ought to. And until you've done this, to hold to a certain belief on it, either the one way or the other, is foolish indeed. Just try doing 1% research for sending a man to the moon, and see what kind of accuracy and success you'd have! Complete failure is guaranteed that way. Using a word search/concordance basically is no better than 1%. Literally. Just look at the size of the bible, and compare that to a pitiful word search/concordance listing of words that you can come up with. The very fact that you need to search it out, demands the conclusion that you don't know the content, and thus the multitude of words used in the bible when it speaks on a topic, no matter the topic. We are all in this state, until through much use, we become adept and strong in the word of God, as it says in one of the epistles.
And using commentaries, etc., is not studying the word of God, by any stretch of the imagination.
There are no short cuts to wisdom and spiritual insight/understandings. None.
Few indeed are those who are actually willing to study this way. Fewer still have done this on a number of topics in the word of God. Yet most will speak and teach as if they are in-the-know.
Whatever. The scirptures speak of them, too.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Thank you for your response.
"That's why He spoke in parables."
Yes. As I said before, Jesus spoke in parable to teach us about empathy, which leads to love - the Good News.
"Scripture always has the correct answer, it would seem."
Jesus wasn't looking for the right answer, which is why he spoke in open ended parables - the Pharisees were looking for the 'right' answers, at the expensive of people.
"And many of the parables, almost every single one of them, came from the OT. That's how the Pharisees knew that He spoke of them in certain parables, for they were based upon the OT parables that the OT people ignored and history showed the Pharisees what the result of that was, revealing the state of their heart to be just like their forefathers. The Pharisees didn't understand God or His ways, having no spiritual insight into such, being blind and hard hearted, but they sure understood when Christ spoke to them in parables about themselves."
I am sure you have some OT verses to back this claim up. I agree, the Pharisee's hearts were certainly hard - they valued their doctrines over people.
"That begs the question as to how that could be, for they didn't understand the other parables, being blind spiritually. They studied the scriptures, but without God, and thus they knew the content (such as the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem), but not the spiritual insights."
The only spiritual insight they needed to know is love - unfortunately, God is the only one who can reveal this to us. The Pharisee's didn't know God so they missed Him right before their eyes.
"Thus, when Christ's parables in regard to them specifically were given as the OT parables about them were given, they recognized the content. That's how they knew that He was speaking of them. That fits Christ's statement on this fact that they wanted to kill Him for it, but were blind to the parables that gave spiritual insight about God."
The Pharisee's over identified with their doctrine and dogma - when Jesus was trying to teach about the trappings of forsaking love for empty doctrine, they were condemned because they were their doctrine.
"And it would seem that the common belief of Christendom doesn't fit the scriptural answer for why He spoke in parables."
What is the 'common belief of Christendom'?
"Ever wonder why? Who's right: God or the "Christian" that tries to tell you their own take on it?"
Every verse you posted from the gospels points to 'my own take on it' - they all point to Jesus' central teaching - you are loved by God through Christ, therefore love your neighbors. Again, it is the message the pharisees never got from the parables.
"So if God "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance", (2 Peter 3:9), then why would Christ speak in parables so that they people wouldn't understand and turn to God and repent and be saved?!!!!!"
So - did the pharisees repent and get saved, like they were supposed to? See that doesn't happen in real life - people cannot be argued into the Kingdom of Heaven. The fact is, Jesus spoke in parables to teach us perspective taking skills (we can relate to every character in His parables), which leads to empathy (since we can walk in the character's shoes we can gain new understanding about ourselves in relation to God, ourselves, and each other), which leads to love (reaching out and serving one another and God). In fact, we can all be Pharisees, at times, ourselves - valuing being right, over love and forgiveness.
"This is NOT a contradiction in the word of God. So when we have people state contrary to these truths expressly stated in the word of God, or they ignore one statement and espouse the other only, they know not what they speak of, as it states elsewhere in the scriptures. And those scriptures have some very, very blunt and damning statements for such."
Nothing damning about it! It is the Good News - Jesus did not tell His disciples to go out and condemn - He told them to go spread the good news. The Good News is that we are loved and now we no longer need to live under condemnation from God - we are once again called to be fully human (as we were created to be in the Garden) because Christ has reconciled us with the Father - all you have to do is believe it and go out and live it!
"It would behoove us to seek the Lord, know His word, and not listen to those who speak that which is contrary to the very clear word of God, for such speak lies in hypocrisy, the Word says. Such statements are not the truth from God, so their only other option is that they are doctrines of demons, as the Word says."
Ok, I will beware!
"It is fully imperative that we believe these statements with alacrity and no reservations whatsoever, as that is child-like faith."
Child-like faith is not blind adherence to any statement. It is loving, trusting, and forgiving like a child.
"All else is a spiritual charade."
ugh
Peace
"That's why He spoke in parables."
Yes. As I said before, Jesus spoke in parable to teach us about empathy, which leads to love - the Good News.
"Scripture always has the correct answer, it would seem."
Jesus wasn't looking for the right answer, which is why he spoke in open ended parables - the Pharisees were looking for the 'right' answers, at the expensive of people.
"And many of the parables, almost every single one of them, came from the OT. That's how the Pharisees knew that He spoke of them in certain parables, for they were based upon the OT parables that the OT people ignored and history showed the Pharisees what the result of that was, revealing the state of their heart to be just like their forefathers. The Pharisees didn't understand God or His ways, having no spiritual insight into such, being blind and hard hearted, but they sure understood when Christ spoke to them in parables about themselves."
I am sure you have some OT verses to back this claim up. I agree, the Pharisee's hearts were certainly hard - they valued their doctrines over people.
"That begs the question as to how that could be, for they didn't understand the other parables, being blind spiritually. They studied the scriptures, but without God, and thus they knew the content (such as the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem), but not the spiritual insights."
The only spiritual insight they needed to know is love - unfortunately, God is the only one who can reveal this to us. The Pharisee's didn't know God so they missed Him right before their eyes.
"Thus, when Christ's parables in regard to them specifically were given as the OT parables about them were given, they recognized the content. That's how they knew that He was speaking of them. That fits Christ's statement on this fact that they wanted to kill Him for it, but were blind to the parables that gave spiritual insight about God."
The Pharisee's over identified with their doctrine and dogma - when Jesus was trying to teach about the trappings of forsaking love for empty doctrine, they were condemned because they were their doctrine.
"And it would seem that the common belief of Christendom doesn't fit the scriptural answer for why He spoke in parables."
What is the 'common belief of Christendom'?
"Ever wonder why? Who's right: God or the "Christian" that tries to tell you their own take on it?"
Every verse you posted from the gospels points to 'my own take on it' - they all point to Jesus' central teaching - you are loved by God through Christ, therefore love your neighbors. Again, it is the message the pharisees never got from the parables.
"So if God "is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance", (2 Peter 3:9), then why would Christ speak in parables so that they people wouldn't understand and turn to God and repent and be saved?!!!!!"
So - did the pharisees repent and get saved, like they were supposed to? See that doesn't happen in real life - people cannot be argued into the Kingdom of Heaven. The fact is, Jesus spoke in parables to teach us perspective taking skills (we can relate to every character in His parables), which leads to empathy (since we can walk in the character's shoes we can gain new understanding about ourselves in relation to God, ourselves, and each other), which leads to love (reaching out and serving one another and God). In fact, we can all be Pharisees, at times, ourselves - valuing being right, over love and forgiveness.
"This is NOT a contradiction in the word of God. So when we have people state contrary to these truths expressly stated in the word of God, or they ignore one statement and espouse the other only, they know not what they speak of, as it states elsewhere in the scriptures. And those scriptures have some very, very blunt and damning statements for such."
Nothing damning about it! It is the Good News - Jesus did not tell His disciples to go out and condemn - He told them to go spread the good news. The Good News is that we are loved and now we no longer need to live under condemnation from God - we are once again called to be fully human (as we were created to be in the Garden) because Christ has reconciled us with the Father - all you have to do is believe it and go out and live it!
"It would behoove us to seek the Lord, know His word, and not listen to those who speak that which is contrary to the very clear word of God, for such speak lies in hypocrisy, the Word says. Such statements are not the truth from God, so their only other option is that they are doctrines of demons, as the Word says."
Ok, I will beware!
"It is fully imperative that we believe these statements with alacrity and no reservations whatsoever, as that is child-like faith."
Child-like faith is not blind adherence to any statement. It is loving, trusting, and forgiving like a child.
"All else is a spiritual charade."
ugh
Peace
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
According to Mat 13:11 which says Jesus Christ replied, " the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Does this mean that God selects those who will have the knowledge of the secrets of heaven?
God knows everything. It does not mean that God selects people to understand the secrets of Heaven; nor does He create people for Heaven and others for Hell. If He did, He would no longer be Good. It is not ethical to create people for eternal torture.
We were created to love God and our neighbors - after the Fall, we forgot how to do it. Our love became self-centered and we focused on self-seeking behaviors like comparing ourselves to our neighbors and exalting ourselves over them. Jesus taught us a different way - an ancient way - He taught us how to love again - without serving ourselves, but serving Him - the secret of heaven.
God wants us all to accept His love and forgiveness so that we can experience Heaven and share the message of God's love with others. Not everyone will be able to let their guards down / be vulnerable / humble in order to receive this love, but Christ died for everyone and He wants all of us. I am not sure how it is all going to turn out, all I can do is love and forgive and encourage and share the Good News and trust God that justice will prevail.
Peace
God knows everything. It does not mean that God selects people to understand the secrets of Heaven; nor does He create people for Heaven and others for Hell. If He did, He would no longer be Good. It is not ethical to create people for eternal torture.
We were created to love God and our neighbors - after the Fall, we forgot how to do it. Our love became self-centered and we focused on self-seeking behaviors like comparing ourselves to our neighbors and exalting ourselves over them. Jesus taught us a different way - an ancient way - He taught us how to love again - without serving ourselves, but serving Him - the secret of heaven.
God wants us all to accept His love and forgiveness so that we can experience Heaven and share the message of God's love with others. Not everyone will be able to let their guards down / be vulnerable / humble in order to receive this love, but Christ died for everyone and He wants all of us. I am not sure how it is all going to turn out, all I can do is love and forgive and encourage and share the Good News and trust God that justice will prevail.
Peace
God knows everything?
No dobt about that. So He knew man would fall before He created man? What's love in there?
God knows everything?
No dobt about that. So He knew man would fall before He created man? What's love in there?
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
God,am I lucky and blessed ---and I don't know why.
Why not this guy or that guy?
Wow...thank you, Lord.
Why not this guy or that guy?
Wow...thank you, Lord.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Yep. No surprise in that - we even know that our children are going to mess up before we decide to have them, but it doesn't stop us from having kids or loving them. The biggest problem in the garden was that humans never repented - God would have forgiven us on the spot if we had. The consequence of freewill is that people will go outside of the boundaries from time to time - God knew it - unfortunately, when Adam and Eve did misuse their freewill, they blamed each other and never repented. Humanity is like a strong-willed child.
Peace
Apostle Paul explained part of this in Romans... quoting from Isaiah 29.
Rom 11:7-12
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
(KJV)
That "spirit of slumber" God brought upon His people that were rebellious. He didn't just do it arbitrarily. As a result, His Salvation went to us Gentiles that would 'hear'. But not ALL Israel was blinded, as Paul shows in that Rom.11:7 verse., for there still today is an elect remnant of Israel according to the election of grace.
Isa 29:10-14
10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath He covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near Me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear toward Me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
(KJV)
In the previous Isaiah 28 chapter, God mocks the learned leaders of Israel using their own words, because of how they said His Word was line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little. Because His Word is like that, it would cause them to fall backward, be taken (in deception), and snared.
Isa 28:12-15
12 To whom He said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, "We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:"
(KJV)
Now the really, really IMPORTANT lesson from this...
The Jewish priests during the Babylon captivity of the house of Judah became tainted with pagan ideas while in Babylon. That's when the Jewish Babylonian Talmud was written by the priests and scribes. It is a book only loosely based on the OT Bible, and includes many philosophical and mystical ideas of Jewish sage philosophy which produced TRADITIONS of men responsible for what Paul called "the Jew's religion". It is what our Lord Jesus called the "leaven" doctrine, traditions devised by men who sought to lord it over God's people for gain. In that way, they literally stopped listening to God in His Word, and instead created their 'own' traditions that supplanted God's Truth, forming their own religious systems. That's why God mocks them in the Isaiah 28 prophecy, because by creating their own traditions and religion outside God's Word, they make lies their refuge and hide under falsehoods, which is to make a covenant with death.
That working does not only apply to Israel though. It also applies to the leaders over Christianity that do that very same thing with creating leaven traditions upon God's people, all the way up to Christ's second coming. Simply because many brethren do not study all of God's Word line upon line like God showed in Isaiah 28, that's how the many doctrines of men and leaven traditions get started. The Protestant reformation happenned as a result of the Roman Church instituting a religious system of leaven traditions, and today in countries like Russia and Red China, many Christians have turned away from the 'state' operated Church system and instead have met in house Churches, just as the early Christians did in hiding from the Pharisee Jews. Many Christians in the West are leaving system Churches today for the same reasons, as a lot of today's Churches are accepting pagan doctrines contrary to God's Word, and are aligning with a socialist one world agenda.
Thus we are not to put our trust or faith in a church organizational system, nor in a church building, nor in any group of men, but stay on Christ Jesus in His Word. ANY system or organization formed by men in this world will become a target for Christ's enemies, and they will creep into it to destroy. It is impossible to keep the "tares" out during this present world time, which is why a lot of good organizations started by Christian brethren eventually start having problems of corruption because of false brethren. The closer we come to the end of this world, the worse it's going to get within today's Church organizations. We're to understand this is simply a problem with being in this world, because we are not 'of' this world.
Rom 11:7-12
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear
unto this day.9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
(KJV)
That "spirit of slumber" God brought upon His people that were rebellious. He didn't just do it arbitrarily. As a result, His Salvation went to us Gentiles that would 'hear'. But not ALL Israel was blinded, as Paul shows in that Rom.11:7 verse., for there still today is an elect remnant of Israel according to the election of grace.
Isa 29:10-14
10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath He covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near Me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour Me, but have removed their heart far from Me, and their fear toward Me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
(KJV)
In the previous Isaiah 28 chapter, God mocks the learned leaders of Israel using their own words, because of how they said His Word was line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, and there a little. Because His Word is like that, it would cause them to fall backward, be taken (in deception), and snared.
Isa 28:12-15
12 To whom He said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, "We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:"
(KJV)
Now the really, really IMPORTANT lesson from this...
The Jewish priests during the Babylon captivity of the house of Judah became tainted with pagan ideas while in Babylon. That's when the Jewish Babylonian Talmud was written by the priests and scribes. It is a book only loosely based on the OT Bible, and includes many philosophical and mystical ideas of Jewish sage philosophy which produced TRADITIONS of men responsible for what Paul called "the Jew's religion". It is what our Lord Jesus called the "leaven" doctrine, traditions devised by men who sought to lord it over God's people for gain. In that way, they literally stopped listening to God in His Word, and instead created their 'own' traditions that supplanted God's Truth, forming their own religious systems. That's why God mocks them in the Isaiah 28 prophecy, because by creating their own traditions and religion outside God's Word, they make lies their refuge and hide under falsehoods, which is to make a covenant with death.
That working does not only apply to Israel though. It also applies to the leaders over Christianity that do that very same thing with creating leaven traditions upon God's people, all the way up to Christ's second coming. Simply because many brethren do not study all of God's Word line upon line like God showed in Isaiah 28, that's how the many doctrines of men and leaven traditions get started. The Protestant reformation happenned as a result of the Roman Church instituting a religious system of leaven traditions, and today in countries like Russia and Red China, many Christians have turned away from the 'state' operated Church system and instead have met in house Churches, just as the early Christians did in hiding from the Pharisee Jews. Many Christians in the West are leaving system Churches today for the same reasons, as a lot of today's Churches are accepting pagan doctrines contrary to God's Word, and are aligning with a socialist one world agenda.
Thus we are not to put our trust or faith in a church organizational system, nor in a church building, nor in any group of men, but stay on Christ Jesus in His Word. ANY system or organization formed by men in this world will become a target for Christ's enemies, and they will creep into it to destroy. It is impossible to keep the "tares" out during this present world time, which is why a lot of good organizations started by Christian brethren eventually start having problems of corruption because of false brethren. The closer we come to the end of this world, the worse it's going to get within today's Church organizations. We're to understand this is simply a problem with being in this world, because we are not 'of' this world.
Jesus taught the people through parables so that people could easily understand what he is teaching them. Moreover, he uses parables to confound the prudent who are eager to deceive Him. Only who's heart is clean will receive the fullness of His message.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I think Jesus used parables because the common person can relate to them, but people who were out of touch with humanity could not. It reminds me of when George H Bush was asked if he knew how much a gallon of milk cost - he was so out of touch, he had no idea.
I also think parables are a good way to present open ended questions - the answers are not black and white.
Is not the Bible, itself, in a sense a parable? Who can understand it, but God alone? So we have the message given in an unknown tongue [the entire written Bible] and then by the Holy Ghost in a man the interpretation is given!
"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:26-28
Without the interpretation from God via the Holy Ghost, we have nothing but one more book! But... with the interpretation, we have the Word of God!
The scripture says to "keep silent in the church"! So where is the church if not wherever believers are gathered together for are they not the church? The silence is what should occur when there is no Holy Ghost in any man to tell us what "Thus saith the Lord"!
"And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him." Acts 8:30-31
It was not just a man who sat down to guide the eunuch, but a man filled with the Holy Ghost so that he was able to interpret what to the eunuch was an incomprehensible parable. Give God all of the glory always!
"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:26-28
Without the interpretation from God via the Holy Ghost, we have nothing but one more book! But... with the interpretation, we have the Word of God!
The scripture says to "keep silent in the church"! So where is the church if not wherever believers are gathered together for are they not the church? The silence is what should occur when there is no Holy Ghost in any man to tell us what "Thus saith the Lord"!
"And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him." Acts 8:30-31
It was not just a man who sat down to guide the eunuch, but a man filled with the Holy Ghost so that he was able to interpret what to the eunuch was an incomprehensible parable. Give God all of the glory always!
Yah's Word is ALIVE - when He spoke creation into existence, we didnt just have the earth and heavens and seas as they were at that moment in time forever, did we ?
Precepts and principles of truth in Yah's word GROW through the years --- do not take this to mean that whole mess people are trying to teach now about how Scripture means something for each new age that looks at it ....
Daniel said we see as through a glass darkly - as more and more prophecy actually unfolds, then the light Yah shines on Scripture unveils more and more dusty corners noone has been able to ever see.
Just because a prophecy has a clear and observable outcome does not mean that word of Yah send down to His prophet is finished growing.
The parables are likely the most extremely dense / rich with meaning prophecies ever spoken - they unwind forwards and backwards, future past and present all at once ... and He will reveal the full meaning at His return.
Precepts and principles of truth in Yah's word GROW through the years --- do not take this to mean that whole mess people are trying to teach now about how Scripture means something for each new age that looks at it ....
Daniel said we see as through a glass darkly - as more and more prophecy actually unfolds, then the light Yah shines on Scripture unveils more and more dusty corners noone has been able to ever see.
Just because a prophecy has a clear and observable outcome does not mean that word of Yah send down to His prophet is finished growing.
The parables are likely the most extremely dense / rich with meaning prophecies ever spoken - they unwind forwards and backwards, future past and present all at once ... and He will reveal the full meaning at His return.
shineyourlight_x
New Member
- Dec 4, 2010
- 15
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aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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