Why did Jesus give the parable of Rich Man and Lazarus?

[Webers_Home]

~

But you believe man is immortal then? Even though John 3:16 says that those who believe have
eternal life. Immortality is a gift, looks like.

Eternal life is often mistaken for Immortality. The two are not the same.

Immortality is a physical kind of life and typically pertains to perpetual
youth.

Eternal life, on the other hand, is a spirit kind of life and typically pertains to
deity because it always was, it always is, and it always shall be.

Now the gift of eternal life doesn't transform people into gods, but it does
enable them to eventually be as naturally pleasing to God as His son Jesus
always is.

"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness
through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness.
Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that
through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption that's in the world." (2Pet 1:3-4)

I should think it goes without saying that the divine nature would be a whole
lots more successful at producing an acceptable level of piety than the
human nature could ever hope for because even at its best the human
nature is corrupt; which is translated from a Greek word basically pertaining
to damaged goods, i.e. broken.
_

 

[MA2444]

Nope
Does not fit the structure of a parable.
Your error is your starting place.
That, and trying to mentally understand the story.
Definitely was not a parable.

An error is trying to understand the story?

Hmm, we dont want to do that now do we? Geez, to understand something!

Understanding it is the easy part lol. The hard question about it seems to be if it was literal or a parable?

 

[Webers_Home]

~
Hades is sometimes assumed to be "the grave".

Well; how were Abraham and the rich man communicating with each other
grave to grave?

The two men are deceased. Are dead bodies sentient and capable of speech?

Lazarus is depicted hugging Abraham. Was Lazarus buried alongside
Abraham in the same grave? (Paupers back then weren't given burials,
they were incinerated)

Abraham is said to be one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8) Well; the story quotes
him. Would Jesus do that? Would he quote one of God's buddies saying
something he didn't really say? If Jesus would falsely quote an important
patriarch like Abraham, what's to stop him from falsely quoting one of us?
_

 

[Jack]

Luke 16 is not a parable. Parables don't use literal Biblical people!

 

[Cassandra]

Nope
Does not fit the structure of a parable.
Your error is your starting place.
That, and trying to mentally understand the story.
Definitely was not a parable.

I thought only God was Omniscient and omnipresent. Are you saying that those in hell can look at those in Heaven and vice versa?

~


Eternal life is often mistaken for Immortality. The two are not the same.

Immortality is a physical kind of life and typically pertains to perpetual
youth.

Eternal life, on the other hand, is a spirit kind of life and typically pertains to
deity because it always was, it always is, and it always shall be.

Now the gift of eternal life doesn't transform people into gods, but it does
enable them to eventually be as naturally pleasing to God as His son Jesus
always is.

"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness
through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness.
Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that
through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption that's in the world." (2Pet 1:3-4)

I should think it goes without saying that the divine nature would be a whole
lots more successful at producing an acceptable level of piety than the
human nature could ever hope for because even at its best the human
nature is corrupt; which is translated from a Greek word basically pertaining
to damaged goods, i.e. broken.
_

Of course itt doesn't turn people into gods. It is a gift. Those who do not believe on Jesus will not have it. There is no eternal hell. There is a second death, which is death, not a perpetual dying.

 

[Webers_Home]

~

Those who do not believe on Jesus will not have [eternal life].

Note the grammatical tense of the passages below: they're present tense
rather than future, indicating that Jesus' followers have eternal life right
now-- no delay and no waiting period.

"I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe in God who sent
me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they
have already passed from death into life." (John 5:24)

"I write this to you who believe in the Son of God, so that you may know
you have eternal life." (1John 5:13)

In addition, folks who correctly dine upon Jesus' flesh and blood are also in
possession of eternal life in the here and now

"He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life." (John 6:54)

In point of fact, according to God's testimony-- as an expert witness -
people in this day and age lacking eternal life are not yet unified with His
son; they are indeed quite christless.

"We accept human testimony, but God's testimony carries more weight
because it is the testimony of God, which He has given about His son. . . .
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His
son. Whoever has the Son has the life; whoever who does not have the life,
does not have God's son." (1John 5:9-13)

There are well-meaning Christians out and about insisting that no one
obtains eternal life until they cross over to the other side. Beware making
that mistake because those folks are insinuating that God is a person of
marginal integrity who cannot be trusted to tell the truth about Jesus.

"Anyone who does not believe God has made Him out to be a liar, because
he has not believed the testimony God has given about His son." (1John
5:10)
_

 

[Webers_Home]

~

There is no eternal hell. There is a second death, which is death, not a perpetual dying.

There are folks at large-- e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses, et al --who insist
human life is entirely organic and does not survive the termination
of one's material body. If it turns out those folks are resting upon a false
premise, their disappointment will be very grievous.

● Eccl 12:7 . . For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will
return to God who gave it.

The million dollar question is: What does God do with people's spirit once He
gets it back?

And another: Is it possible peoples' spirits are transferable to a different form
of existence than the one they have now: maybe even an existence that can
withstand incineration?

Those are very, very disturbing questions; especially for Jehovah's
Witnesses because they believe the angel Michael's life force was transferred
to Mary's womb so he could exist as a human being; and then when his
human existence passed away on the cross, Michael's life force was
transferred back so he could pick up where he left off as an angel. Were I
a JW, the Watchtower Society's beliefs about Michael's life force would make
me very nervous.
_

 

[Jack]

I thought only God was Omniscient and omnipresent. Are you saying that those in hell can look at those in Heaven and vice versa?

Of course itt doesn't turn people into gods. It is a gift. Those who do not believe on Jesus will not have it. There is no eternal hell. There is a second death, which is death, not a perpetual dying.

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people there is no 'eternal hell'! He wants our company 'forever and ever'!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I thought only God was Omniscient and omnipresent. Are you saying that those in hell can look at those in Heaven and vice versa?

Of course itt doesn't turn people into gods. It is a gift. Those who do not believe on Jesus will not have it. There is no eternal hell. There is a second death, which is death, not a perpetual dying.

Heaven is up. Paradise is where Jesus DECENDED.

 

[Cassandra]

Heaven is up. Paradise is where Jesus DECENDED.

Where is paradise

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where is paradise

Was beneath.
Now emptied.
You can safely say paradise is now in heaven.

 

[Hobie]

~


Eternal life is often mistaken for Immortality. The two are not the same.

Immortality is a physical kind of life and typically pertains to perpetual
youth.

Eternal life, on the other hand, is a spirit kind of life and typically pertains to
deity because it always was, it always is, and it always shall be.

Now the gift of eternal life doesn't transform people into gods, but it does
enable them to eventually be as naturally pleasing to God as His son Jesus
always is.

"His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness
through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness.
Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that
through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption that's in the world." (2Pet 1:3-4)

I should think it goes without saying that the divine nature would be a whole
lots more successful at producing an acceptable level of piety than the
human nature could ever hope for because even at its best the human
nature is corrupt; which is translated from a Greek word basically pertaining
to damaged goods, i.e. broken.
_

How would you read these text then...

Matthew 19:16
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

John 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

And we could go on to many more, but these will suffice..

 

[Webers_Home]

~

How would you read these text then

I am unable to figure out how the information you seek relates to the post you quoted.
_

 

[Mark51]

Jesus Christ was speaking to his disciples in the present of the Pharisees and scribes prior to the account at Luke 16:19-31; and, often taught a lesson by telling a story through the means of parables or illustrations.

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple/fine linen, very self-righteous; and, were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar, Lazarus, depicts the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy. Being neglected, they were hungering and thirsting for righteousness (spiritually ill); and, who appreciated their need of Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. This should be no surprise to us because the Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6. A death, or change from former conditions, happened when Jesus fed the Lazarus class spiritually; and, they thus came into the favor of the greater Abraham: God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers after Pentecost forcefully exposed their evil works. (Acts 7:51-57) So this illustration is not literal and does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.

Furthermore, it is not reasonable or Scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not Scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not spiritually feed the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things, things that clearly would merit his going to heaven.

Finally, “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.” (John 3:13) The resurrection of the dead did not start at that time.

 

[Taken]

There is much question and debate over whether the words of Jesus in Luke 16:19-31 were intended to be understood literally or as a parable. Some people feel that Jesus was offering a glimpse of what existence in the afterlife is like.

Hi Hobie…
Fact:
Jesus IS the TRUTH, He can NOT Lie.

Fact:
Jesus’ teaching was in the MANNER called a Parable, expressly to accomplish TWO things.

#1….Fulfill Scripture that He would SPEAK / TEACH in PARABLES.

#2….Reveal KNOWLEDGE that had been Kept Secret.

Fact:
INTENT…
* Jesus could and did give His teaching to mixed crowds…Jews and Gentiles.
* One teaching to ALL.
* How each individual in the crowd would RECEIVE His teaching IS the CLUE to the “supposed” mystery.

* Would an individual Receive His Teaching, as a MADE UP STORY (ie the common MINDFUL understanding) of a PARABLE?
* Would an individual Receive His Teaching, in the MANNER of a PARABLE…yet EVERY WORD of His TEACHING was TRUTH and WOULD an individual TRUST His TEACHING was From purely TRUE SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE?

Two Birds…one stone?
Or
One Speech…two beliefs? <—->YES!

TWO Beliefs….
1) Jesus could NOT LIE.
Jesus’ Parables Factually, Literally TRUE?

2) Jesus could LIE.
Jesus could LIE, IF His teaching/speech was CALLED a Parable?

My view is JESUS could NOT Lie, regardless of the MANNER, style of His teaching or what MINDS perceives a Parable to commonly be known as.

Jesus was NOT common.
Jesus was not created OUT of the dust of the Earth.
Jesus WAS sent forth OUT of Gods MOUTH, (and WHY He IS Called the Word of God.)
Jesus WAS given a BODY, that God Himself Prepared …FOR WHEN He would come DOWN from Heaven and Be REVEALED to manKIND (whose body’s ARE but dust of the Earth.)

His PURPOSE….
** Accomplish. ALL God SENT Him TO DO, in the MANNER God SENT Him TO accomplish a SERVICE unto God. **

#1 Fulfill the Laws God had Given Moses.
#2 Reveal knowledge that HAD BEEN Kept Secret for 4,000 years.
#3 SHOW human men, BY Word AND Example….HOW to BECOME MADE IN “Gods LIKENESS.”
#4 REVEAL to manKIND an OFFERING, “IF” a man was WILLING, the WAY to BECOME “MADE” by the Power of God, (ie CHRIST), WITH the Lord God…..FOR EVER.
#5 TEACH manKIND…
….The Consequences FOR ACCEPTING His OFFERING.
…The Consequences FOR REJECTING His OFFERING.

Jesus could not, did not LIE….
Period.
Every Word Jesus spoke was and is TRUE…
Period.

Man’s freewill option is to BELIEVE THAT or NOT.
Period.

No debate necessary whether or not Jesus” Parables are Literal or Not.
Because it is the SPEAKER that is the DEFINING answer. (Not “A” Parable).


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Hobie]

Jesus Christ was speaking to his disciples in the present of the Pharisees and scribes prior to the account at Luke 16:19-31; and, often taught a lesson by telling a story through the means of parables or illustrations.

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple/fine linen, very self-righteous; and, were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar, Lazarus, depicts the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy. Being neglected, they were hungering and thirsting for righteousness (spiritually ill); and, who appreciated their need of Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. This should be no surprise to us because the Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6. A death, or change from former conditions, happened when Jesus fed the Lazarus class spiritually; and, they thus came into the favor of the greater Abraham: God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers after Pentecost forcefully exposed their evil works. (Acts 7:51-57) So this illustration is not literal and does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.

Furthermore, it is not reasonable or Scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not Scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not spiritually feed the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things, things that clearly would merit his going to heaven.

Finally, “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.” (John 3:13) The resurrection of the dead did not start at that time.

It clearly was to illustrate a point, and the Pharisees saw it was directed at their unbelief.