Why Did Jesus Have To Leave Before The Comforter Could Come ?
- Thread starter Hollyrock
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Hello HollyRock, :)
The answer is most clearly laid out in the epistle to the Hebrews, chapters 8 - 10. Please read them for a detailed explanation. The Tabernacle (first) and later the Temple, were shadows of the true tabernacle pitched in the heavens, but even that tabernacle needed to be cleansed through the shed of blood of our Lord Jesus.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you:
but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
In short form: if Jesus had not ascended to the Father, that His sacrifice be accepted by Him, Father could not have sent the Holy Spirit.
The answer is most clearly laid out in the epistle to the Hebrews, chapters 8 - 10. Please read them for a detailed explanation. The Tabernacle (first) and later the Temple, were shadows of the true tabernacle pitched in the heavens, but even that tabernacle needed to be cleansed through the shed of blood of our Lord Jesus.
Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Acts 1:4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, [saith he], ye have heard of me.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you:
but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
In short form: if Jesus had not ascended to the Father, that His sacrifice be accepted by Him, Father could not have sent the Holy Spirit.
Thank you dragonfly for pointing me to Hebrews 8-10 ( such rich chapters )...Is this also the reason why Jesus told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended to the Father ?
Hi again,
I'll be honest, I'm not sure. It makes no sense in the context of Him telling Thomas to touch Him. John 20:27.
I have wondered if it is a later addition, but there's no way to know for sure.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure. It makes no sense in the context of Him telling Thomas to touch Him. John 20:27.
I have wondered if it is a later addition, but there's no way to know for sure.
Hey, someone wants to talk about Thomas.
But first, it seems that Jesus and the Holy Spirit were both present at the same time (John 20:22).
Thomas doubted what they were saying about Jesus ...
because he missed the first boat ... he missed getting saved when the others did (John 20:24).
Stay thirsty, my friends, and read carefully too.
But first, it seems that Jesus and the Holy Spirit were both present at the same time (John 20:22).
Thomas doubted what they were saying about Jesus ...
because he missed the first boat ... he missed getting saved when the others did (John 20:24).
Stay thirsty, my friends, and read carefully too.
I suppose that some scripture appear to contradict each other, but since we know that it does not, it is we who do not yet have the full understanding of how scripture bears out scripture on certain issues.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
According to John 14:16-17, the Comforter was already associating with the
disciples, but apparently not yet "in" them.
It seems to me one of the purposes of the Comforter being "in" the disciples
was to assure them they had a daddy.
†. John 14:18 . . I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
†. Gal 4:6-7 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of
His son into your hearts, crying out: Abba! Father!
Abba is an Aramaic word that means daddy as a vocative. In other words:
when my son and his mother are out in the kitchen talking about me,
"daddy" is my filial identity. However, when my son calls out to me to get
my attention; then "daddy" becomes a vocative.
What that tells me is that Christians comfortable calling out to the Lord's
mother do not have the Comforter in them or otherwise they'd be compelled
to call out to his father instead.
It is a very grave matter to lack the Comforter in one's self.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.
Cliff
/
disciples, but apparently not yet "in" them.
It seems to me one of the purposes of the Comforter being "in" the disciples
was to assure them they had a daddy.
†. John 14:18 . . I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
†. Gal 4:6-7 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of
His son into your hearts, crying out: Abba! Father!
Abba is an Aramaic word that means daddy as a vocative. In other words:
when my son and his mother are out in the kitchen talking about me,
"daddy" is my filial identity. However, when my son calls out to me to get
my attention; then "daddy" becomes a vocative.
What that tells me is that Christians comfortable calling out to the Lord's
mother do not have the Comforter in them or otherwise they'd be compelled
to call out to his father instead.
It is a very grave matter to lack the Comforter in one's self.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.
Cliff
/
Cliff, I don't see any associating at all ...
that whole theme in John 14,15,16 re: the Comforter ...
was just a promise for the future for when Jesus had left.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
Maybe you don't see the Comforter associating with the Lord's men; but I do.
†. John 14:16-18 . . And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another
Counselor to be with you forever-- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot
accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him,
for he lives with you and will be in you.
Don't the words "you know him, for he lives with you" indicate an association?
Well; maybe not to you but that's what they indicate to me.
Cliff
/
there is really more than one answer. This is one of them. It is not possible for man to see more than one member of the God head at one time. It is man's fault that he thinks there is more than one God. It has to be that when we see the one we think of the Lord as one. If most would see 2 standing there they would think plural or more than one. each member of the God head is not a person but all 3 are personalities of the one God. We cannot say each is a person. When Jesus left to go to the father his work in his own personality was done. The Holy Spirit who is the personality in which the continuing work of building his church would be accomplished remains in the earth until he is removed and anti christ and judgements of the tribulation period begin. After that Jesus shall return again to build his 1,000 year earthly kingdom. Most important is to know the offices of each member of the God head.
Father has his, Jesus has his, Holy Spirit his. Jesus has 3. Prophet, Priest, and king. Yet he is still God.
You will notice that when Jesus was here, he could be seen but not the Holy Spirit. Only once he was seen in the form of a dove. That way people could see that he came upon Jesus. The worker is---the Holy Spirit. he works through the people to reveal the power and wonder of God living in them.
Father has his, Jesus has his, Holy Spirit his. Jesus has 3. Prophet, Priest, and king. Yet he is still God.
You will notice that when Jesus was here, he could be seen but not the Holy Spirit. Only once he was seen in the form of a dove. That way people could see that he came upon Jesus. The worker is---the Holy Spirit. he works through the people to reveal the power and wonder of God living in them.
brodav9, Holy Spirit appeared twice, once as in the form of a Dove to Christ's apostles , for the forgiveness of sins, [ John 20:23 ] but also in the form of "Tongues of Fire" at Pentecost 1st century.[ Acts 2:42-47 ]
Jesus was our Advocate when He was on earth. He says to them earlier on;
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
It would seem that God only requires we have ONE Advocate at a time.
Webbers,
I've wondered about this as well.
We see the interaction when the twelve were sent out. They were given power to heal the sick, raise the dead and even leave their peace on a place that was worthy of it. This was before His death and resurrection.
Matthew 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
I've wondered and I'm praying about this. Do you think that it has something to do with the Spirit being given by measure? For example, in the construction of the wilderness Tabernacle, God gave different gifts, artisans, craftsmen etc..for the building of the physical tabernacle.
In the early church there were also different gifts for the edifying and building up of the people, (built without hands.)
The only reference to the spirit being given without measure, is this regarding Jesus.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Just some things I've been considering. Glad to see this topic and the responses.
