WHY DO CHRISTIANS SHOOT THE WOUNDED?

[marksman]

I am not sure where this will end up, but I thought that it would do no harm to raise the subject as it happens all the time in the church.

Essentially, the church is a haven for the wounded. If we are all born in sin and for many, sin is dominant in their lives, although born again, we are going to become a member of the body of Christ…wounded.

I say this whilst acknowledging that we are a new creature in Christ when we are born again and old things pass away and all things become new.

I have read widely about this, and not withstanding what the scriptures say, the church is full of wounded people that don’t need shooting, they need healing.

It would take a very long post to canvas all the issues so I am not going to do that. I will concentrate on a few pertinent ideas which I have seen happen.

I believe that one of the reasons we shoot the wounded is that perfection according to denomination dictates is a requirement to be part of a church. You have to dress a certain way, speak a certain way, act a certain way, believe all the right things and always do what you are told.
If anyone does not match up to these requirements, they are disciplined or made to feel a second class Christian. In some cases, they are encouraged to find other pastures.

Another one is a church where I read that the minister believes that Christians don’t have problems. All you have to do is pray and God will deal with it or help you keep a stiff upper lip and a permanent smile.

As a result, even amongst the leadership, people are struggling with depression, sin, chaos in their marriage and general dysfunction. To admit to anything wrong is as bad as blasphemy.

Christian therapists have counselled many of these people because they got to breaking point and could not get any help from the church because they don’t accept reality.

A short story to conclude. A man visited a church and discovered all the men wore black suits, white shirts and black ties. He was dressed in a Stetson, check shirt, jeans and boots.

After the meeting one of the elders took him aside and welcomed him and said it was normal to dress in black suits if he was coming again. He did come again next Sunday and wore the same. Again he was taken aside and lectured. He said he would ask the Lord about it.

When he was praying, he asked the Lord what the score was about this dress code. He had to admit that he couldn’t be of much help as he had been trying for a long time to visit the church and so far he was not welcome.

 

[Rex]

That pretty much sums up what churches have become. That's why I very rarely go
Its all about imitating the leaderships mind set, not imitating Christ

I like the last part, I firmly believe many today would reject Jesus If He simply walked in and did as He always does.
Speak the truth.


The reality is just as you said, the man in the stetson, check shirt, jeans and boots.
is in the church, and the black suits are outside


Just thinking your title is wrong
It has nothing to do with Christians shooting Christians, isn't it the false flag Christians doing the shooting.

 

[teamventure]

well i believe in these last days that much of your typical church goers may not even be saved. just a handfull in each church perhaps.

 

[biggandyy]

Most of those are Prosperity Gospel Churches (and the mega-sized Churches). Where if you aren't healthy, wealthy, and successful then something is wrong with YOU, spiritually.

NOTHING can be further from the truth. God does NOT have a wonderful plan for your life. He has a wonderful plan, but it may involve some rather uncomfortable situations for you. It may even cost you your LIFE.

True joy comes from closeness to the Lord, not counting the amount of material blessing He has allowed you to accumulate or has bestowed upon you.

So when we observe the wounded being eaten, it is most often the dead eating the dead. True life is in the Son, even when our hearts ache, our limbs wear out, and our breath leaves us.

We can find solace and encouragement from a congregation and a church body, but let's not pretend that is where our Joy is supposed to come from (as many here will contend and fault the church for falling short). The church is an encouragement for us, nothing more. That is what it's purpose is, scripturally. Joy, peace, and fulfillment come from Christ and Him alone.

When one or both are lacking or out of their scriptural limits is when we get bitter and blame God or the church for the failings. It's not up to God to keep the lines open between Him and us, or the church and us (as individuals). That is OUR responsibility. His lines are ALWAYS open and if a church strays and you notice it, STEP IN AND TRY TO FIX IT. If it won't be fixed, shake the dust off your sandals and move on to another congregation.

If all the churches in your area are lacking then it's a strong possibility it's YOU that is out of touch in one way or another, not the individual church bodies.

 

[Rach1370]

Most of those are Prosperity Gospel Churches (and the mega-sized Churches). Where if you aren't healthy, wealthy, and successful then something is wrong with YOU, spiritually.

NOTHING can be further from the truth. God does NOT have a wonderful plan for your life. He has a wonderful plan, but it may involve some rather uncomfortable situations for you. It may even cost you your LIFE.

True joy comes from closeness to the Lord, not counting the amount of material blessing He has allowed you to accumulate or has bestowed upon you.

So when we observe the wounded being eaten, it is most often the dead eating the dead. True life is in the Son, even when our hearts ache, our limbs wear out, and our breath leaves us.

We can find solace and encouragement from a congregation and a church body, but let's not pretend that is where our Joy is supposed to come from (as many hear will content and fault the church for falling short). The church is an encouragement for us, nothing more. That is what it's purpose is, scripturally. Joy, peace, and fulfillment come from Christ and Him alone.

When one or both are lacking or out of their scriptural limits is when we get bitter and blame God or the church for the failings. It's not up to God to keep the lines open between Him and us, or the church and us (as individuals). That is OUR responsibility. His lines are ALWAYS open and if a church strays and you notice it, STEP IN AND TRY TO FIX IT. If it won't be fixed, shake the dust off your sandals and move on to another congregation.

If all the churches in your area are lacking then it's a strong possibility it's YOU that is out of touch in one way or another, not the individual church bodies.

Amen Andy, all well said and true.

I think also it needs to be pointed out that not all 'disciplines' are just based around what the majority of the Church members are doing. It has to do with fruit. Our behaviours show our fruit...the real state of our hearts...and sometimes biblical leaders need to step in and do something about that...lest the 'leaven of a few ruins the whole batch'. Consider: if a woman shows up wearing something that is inches to short on the hem, both top and bottom...should that be let go, even as the younger girls view it, and the mens reaction to it? Should a man who often mouths off, curses and gets angry at others over small things be let to continue with that behaviour?
It may be very well true that such behaviours reveal an underlying issue...they may be wounded indeed...but there are ways of helping these people without encouraging sinful things at the same time.

 

[MTPockets]

Hi! "Marksman'
Quite simply stated:
Christians unwittingly shoot their wounded because they themselves are wounded.

The religious prejudices of some church-goers are not like a bullet which has lodged in the body and can be cut out with a surgeon's knife. No, their injured inner man is more vulnerable than the body and not so easily healed.

A few weeks ago, I was invited to attend two churches (same denomination) which were located about 100 miles distant from one another. After agreeing to attend, I asked the first church members about the dress code and was told that, while a suit n' tie would be most suitable; it wasn't mandatory..The following Sunday, I was to attend the other church and again asked the leaders there about the dress code. They said that very casual dress (jeans) was the norm'; but if I felt like wearing a suit 'er sumthin' like that, that was Ok too.
Not surprisingly, the first church's regimental dress code was reflected in the sermon and their singing choices too.
The second church's more relaxed dress code was also very much evident with their sermon and singing choices.
I also had been invited to the homes of both pastors to share a meal and discussion together. One group solemnly paused to say 'Grace' while the other did not. I asked the Pastor why 'Grace' was unsaid and he gave me this rather humorous question: "Is my wife's cooking so bad that you need to say 'Grace' before eating it?".He then added, "We're not into pious traditions and habits. But if you would feel better saying 'Grace', it's not a problem for any of us.",
The wonderful thing that I observed was that those who no longer felt compelled to follow religious customs and traditions had a much more open and confident Christian disposition about themselves.

 

[Foreigner]

You people really need to make a distinction.

That should have started with the title of this thread. The word "SOME" should have been included.

I know many churches that are absolutely NOTHING like what you are talking about.

The church I attend now provides marraige counseling (both for those getting married and those who are married but are having issues), alcohol and drug addiction assistance, mental health conseling (with licensed counselors), re-integration assistance for former prisoners, and even an extensive program for handling your finances.

These are courses that are used by current members of our church. I know several other churches like this.

We have outreach to the gay community and there are several homosexuals that attend regularly. They are not required to become members and are allowed to participate in all programs. Their only restriction is that they are not allowed into leadership positions. Many accept Christ and seek assistance. Many just come for awhile, leave, and come and go periodically.

We run a food pantry that is used by both the community and member in need within our own church body.

This is hardly a matter of Christians "shooting their wounded."

I know several other churches that have similary programs and activities designed to address the needs of a body that is made up of flawed, imperfect individuals.

Yes, there are multiple churches that are exactly as you have described them. But they are by no means the norm.

Blanket accusations serve no one.

 

[Rex]

Nice story MTPockets
And Foreigner makes a point about proper tolerance and understanding that I'm trying to make myself.

To add I find that I as I draw near to God the baggage falls off, the old man the sinful nature, the struggle with the flesh.

So when your stuck on a step, you can't make the climb don't wrestle with your pack, simply look up toward your destination and say, Lord what am I missing.
But don't be deceived and think your tent the flesh will not be brought into submission as well, to reflect the Holiness within you, there is a time and place for everything in each of us, what I'm saying is don't wrestle until the Lord calls you to. Many spend there whole christian walk at war with the flesh, they in their own strength have over come a requirement necessary to ascend the upper parts of the path, but IMO they have spent their whole life on the first few steps in self preparation instead of climbing, following. Let me fist go and bury my mother and father Matthew 8:19-22

For example pot comes to mind, a thread not long ago, now when you came to know Christ you may well be smoking pot or any other number of things, most churches will tell you the first step is stop smoking cigarettes or pot, give up the gay lifestyle first, quite drinking then you can climb, I disagree, Along the way you learn and the Lord provides the tools and necessary understanding, it begins to fall off, I hope I've made myself clear. It may be first for you, it may be several years. God knows you and understands exactly the results of the path He has laid before you. To equip you, to ensure you complete it, being made into his likeness. He didn't tell you to first meet a list of prerequisites as many practice, when He has placed His spirit upon you, He has every intention of seeing you complete the journey completing each step in the sequence He has determined. I'm not saying their are many paths to God simply there are many different people all walking in the same saving grace of Christ. Churches have a tendency to reject anyone that hasn't conformed to the same sequence of events, I believe different religions are based on such previous experiences and sequential events of the leadership.

All in all that's my description of a real walking in grace relationship.

 

[veteran]

It all depends on what a Church teaches that makes it a house of God or not. For the houses of worship in Old Testament times that failed to teach God's Word, God called those Beth-Avins, which mean 'house of vanity'. Just because a Church building has a sign outside on the front lawn saying it's a Church does not make it so. It's what is taught there that makes it a house of God.

 

[teamventure]

great insight veteran.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

It is important to be armed with knowledge of Scripture so that when you are treated like a second-class Christian, you can respond with what Scripture teaches. For example, the Pharisees were always concerned with superficial things. They did not live in spirit, and so their religion was worthless to them. When you walk into a church and people are judgemental about such things, they are going against the very basic, fundamental workings of Christianity.

Jesus did not turn away people by how they looked or how much money they had. In fact, he favored those who didn't look upon such things. In all reality, the ones who judge are the second-class Christians. They intend to separate Christian against Christian.

 

[veteran]

Hi! "Marksman'
Quite simply stated:
Christians unwittingly shoot their wounded because they themselves are wounded.

The religious prejudices of some church-goers are not like a bullet which has lodged in the body and can be cut out with a surgeon's knife. No, their injured inner man is more vulnerable than the body and not so easily healed.

A few weeks ago, I was invited to attend two churches (same denomination) which were located about 100 miles distant from one another. After agreeing to attend, I asked the first church members about the dress code and was told that, while a suit n' tie would be most suitable; it wasn't mandatory..The following Sunday, I was to attend the other church and again asked the leaders there about the dress code. They said that very casual dress (jeans) was the norm'; but if I felt like wearing a suit 'er sumthin' like that, that was Ok too.
Not surprisingly, the first church's regimental dress code was reflected in the sermon and their singing choices too.
The second church's more relaxed dress code was also very much evident with their sermon and singing choices.
I also had been invited to the homes of both pastors to share a meal and discussion together. One group solemnly paused to say 'Grace' while the other did not. I asked the Pastor why 'Grace' was unsaid and he gave me this rather humorous question: "Is my wife's cooking so bad that you need to say 'Grace' before eating it?".He then added, "We're not into pious traditions and habits. But if you would feel better saying 'Grace', it's not a problem for any of us.",
The wonderful thing that I observed was that those who no longer felt compelled to follow religious customs and traditions had a much more open and confident Christian disposition about themselves.

Saying Grace is important to me. I believe it's important to our Heavenly Father also, because doing it is our recognizing His care over us. It doesn't have to become a long drawn out prayer of thanks, it just needs to come from our heart to Him, which has nothing to do with an idea that you're only following tradition.

 

[Graceismine]

In reply to the OP I would say that some of the "wounded" want to remain wounded. My experience has been that church leaders and counsellors do all that they can to help those who have been hurt in life. Turning to Jesus, becoming born again is not a quick fix and we still reap the consequences of previous actions.

If we are shooting our wounded the shots come from a lack of teaching on true repentance and a general lack of taking the time to disciple new believers.

While I recognise that some people have mental disorders, generally speaking our healing comes through a genuine heart turning to the Lord and at times His discipline is hard to follow.

We have to recognize as well that each individual church has its' own ways and I would have to agree with one poster who says that we cannot generalize, The Bible does teach though that the church would become apostate in the last days and so it could be generally lacking in love

It is a good topic because there are many unchurched Christians not attending for many different reasons and being hurt by someone is just one of them..

 

[marksman]

I am glad I posted this subject as the replies have been interesting and informative and several relevant comments have been made. The church is many faceted and has many expressions so we cannot make a blanket coverage of the topic.

I think I did say some Christians as I did not say all Christians It was an open question which left itself to many different responses, which is what I wanted.

The basic premise was that some wounded are shot by Christians so why does this happen. Different views as to why have been canvassed, which is good as we don't know there is a problem unless we are made aware of it and admit to it.

If we look at the church as a family, which is one of the words used in scripture to describe it, can we draw conclusions from it?

Do we as a family, insist that we all dress the same?

Do we as a family, insist that we all behave the same?

Do we as a family, insist that we all talk the same?

Do we as a family, insist that children act like adults?

Do we as a family, insist that no mistakes are made?

Do we as a family, insist that we have to earn the right to be a member of that family?

Do we as a family reject a family member because they are not perfect?

Do we as a family major on forgiveness to enable a person to grow?

Do we as a family deal with the fruit or the root?

Do we as a family operate on unconditional love?

Whatever the answer to these questions are I guess determines to some extent how the church operates as we produce after our own kind.

I had to get a revelation supernaturally as to who God was because I never had a father to show me by example. Those who have the blessing of a mum and dad that loves them are blessed indeed and will colour their understanding of God and the church In all probability shooting the wounded is not on their agenda.

One caution. it is easy to say if you have had problems with several churches the problem is probably you. If that is the case, why hasn't someone in the church picked up what the need it?

I know that autistic people have this problem as they do things because they have a limited way of expressing themselves but some people treat them as though they are going out of their way to be difficult.

The change has to come from the church in understanding the issues and acting accordingly. Behind their sometimes cold exterior are warm-hearted and generous people.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Christians shoot the healthy too.

 

[Foreigner]

Christians shoot the healthy too.

SOME Christians shoot the healthy. And many who do aren't truly living Christian lives in the first place.

Blanket accusations do not serve anyone, do not help in understanding the actual issues, and reflect poorly on the person making them.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

SOME Christians shoot the healthy. And many who do aren't truly living Christian lives in the first place.

Blanket accusations do not serve anyone, do not help in understanding the actual issues, and reflect poorly on the person making them.

.

see .... you just shot me ..... but i will be OK .... it was just a glancing blow.

 

[biggandyy]

Ha!!!

 

[Foreigner]

.

see .... you just shot me ..... but i will be OK .... it was just a glancing blow.

So THAT'S how it works.
1. You make an unsupported blanket accusation against ALL Christians.
2, Someone points that out to you.
3.You play the victim card.

You truly ARE that which you whine about. Congratulations ;)

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Maybe I can clarify a bit for you.

There are many fine upstanding Christians who are not wounded

And there is always a group of sniveling negative Christians shooting venom at them