Why do we need priests?

[Giuliano]

I think we all need the authority of the Holy Spirit to fully understand scripture, whether his is working in us directly or through the teachings of others who have received enlightenment from the same Holy Spirit. Sometimes He can show me directly what a passage means and then I have the authority to share that with others.

Viewing the results of Protestantism, I have to wonder if it would be wise for me to think I was receiving insight no one before me ever had. I figure it something is from the Holy Spirit, odds are I'll be able to find where someone else of good reputation also believed that. I would be afraid to think I can't be fooled.

 

[amadeus]

I agree, but the RCC seems to have more tenuous dogma than other denominations.

I won't say you are wrong on this, but we do need to be careful about generalizing, especially in a negative way about others. This may bring it may bring it back on us considering these verses?

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?" Matt 7:1-4

On a 'one on one' basis we may of course discuss differences with another person if both are agreed to do this. If the other person is unwilling, we need to consider simply that it may be time to remain silent. What does God say?

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1
"...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:7

How do know when to keep silence and when to speak? I would say we should be in close communication with God to receive proper direction:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

When in doubt, I find that silence is the best course. I speak here for myself. Other people must seek God's will for themselves.

 

[Enoch111]

Don't born again churches have pastors or elders that serve as Priests?

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between elder/pastors and priests (RCC/EOC).

1. Pastors are not there to offer sacrifices on altars such as the Mass.
2. Pastors are shepherds, but have no special powers.
3. Pastors are not authorized to hear confessions.
4. Pastors are not authorized to give absolution for sins.
5. Pastors are not authorized to take clerical titles (although many do).
6. All believers are priests within a Royal Priesthood.

The primary duty of Levitical priests was to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of themselves and Israel. That priesthood came to an end the day Christ died. Therefore human priests today have a BOGUS priesthood.

 

[CovenantPromise]

Viewing the results of Protestantism, I have to wonder if it would be wise for me to think I was receiving insight no one before me ever had. I figure it something is from the Holy Spirit, odds are I'll be able to find where someone else of good reputation also believed that. I would be afraid to think I can't be fooled.

With all due respect, though Protestantism has acted as badly as the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, the WOE is first upon that hierarchy which FIRST behaved badly. If not for that behavior Protestantism would be a non issue. If men could have humbled themselves and treat Luther like a brother and listen to his beef with their "paying for indulgences" nonsense, things would have turned out much better. But greed and power is intoxicating. Even though the Presbyter/ Overseer is warned to NOT be a lover of money, the hierarchy did not heed. I am saying hierarchy, the little ones have no control over them. Luther was just a little monk in comparison.

But he did act in end as bad as them, very sad.

God Bless!

 

[Giuliano]

That is right, it is by the Holy Spirit that the scriptures are understood.

It can also require another person sometimes. The eunuch could have read that prophecy all day without knowing what it meant. Likewise the people had read the Scriptures. They had someone come along with something; and then they searched the scriptures again to see if it could be so.

And yes men tend to self interpret. But the Holy Spirit is very convincing , especially to those who are Christ's . "I know mine and mine know me". Clearly TRUTH is recognized by those who TRULY LOVE Christ.

I would be afraid to think of myself that way. Perhaps I need to be more skeptical about myself and my own motives. I don't want to wind up hearing Jesus tell me to depart, that he never knew me. I need to be on guard.

And still yet , what you post of the scriptures, does not delete out what Paul and Timothy said, but simply expounds upon and upholds what they said. Scripture alone , no matter what, is what we need to uphold doctrines- is the point. You will find that properly interpreted scripture will be like a sword to those who reject truth. There is a difference that is felt when the Holy Spirit is in the driver's seat.

God Bless

My faith in is God. Abraham lived without a Bible. If we cannot, then there's something deficient with us. I don't know what many people mean by doctrines. I honestly don't. What do we need in the way of doctrines to please God? For me, a doctrine is useful only if it shows me how to love God or my fellow man more. Good doctrines bear good fruits. If our lives are a mess, bearing bad fruits, reading the Bible for correction and reproof may give us "sound doctrines" that help us in our daily lives.

 

[Giuliano]

With all due respect, though Protestantism has acted as badly as the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, the WOE is first upon that hierarchy which FIRST behaved badly. If not for that behavior Protestantism would be a non issue. If men could have humbled themselves and treat Luther like a brother and listen to his beef with their "paying for indulgences" nonsense, things would have turned out much better. But greed and power is intoxicating. Even though the Presbyter/ Overseer is warned to NOT be a lover of money, the hierarchy did not heed. I am saying hierarchy, the little ones have no control over them. Luther was just a little monk in comparison.

But he did act in end as bad as them, very sad.

God Bless!

There is nothing new under the sun. . . . How long did it take for Israel to fall into error after the death of Moses and Joshua? Things began to fall apart even as the New Testament was being written.

 

[CovenantPromise]

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between elder/pastors and priests (RCC/EOC).

1. Pastors are not there to offer sacrifices on altars such as the Mass.
2. Pastors are shepherds, but have no special powers.
3. Pastors are not authorized to hear confessions.
4. Pastors are not authorized to give absolution for sins.
5. Pastors are not authorized to take clerical titles (although many do).
6. All believers are priests within a Royal Priesthood.

The primary duty of Levitical priests was to offer sacrifices to God on behalf of themselves and Israel. That priesthood came to an end the day Christ died. Therefore human priests today have a BOGUS priesthood.

Are the apostles considered to be of a holy priesthood? The Levitical priesthood came to an end to make way for the Order of Melchizedek .And again as a wise man pointed out presbyter means the same thing as priest.

Hebrew 9:

The Earthly Holy Place
9 Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. 2 For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table(Altar) and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, 4 having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron's staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant. 5 Above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail.

6 These preparations having thus been made, the priests go regularly into the first section, performing their ritual duties, 7 but into the second only the high priest goes, and he but once a year, and not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the unintentional sins of the people. 8 By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first section is still standing 9 (which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper, 10 but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.( That does not mean the protestant movement)

Redemption Through the Blood of Christ
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” 21 And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. 22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

23 Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

The book of Joel has prophesy concerning what is to befall the faithful and the ministers/ priest of the altar who offer up the bread and libations established by Melchizedek when he ministered to Abraham with bread and wine after he returned from the battle of the kings. Say what you want the scriptures do not lie there is a royal priest established by Christ / Melchizedek that is a royal priesthood.

1Peter 2:9

9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

YES WE ARE PART OF A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, but for sure there are presbyters MEN who are called to serve in a capacity to govern a community of believers. But sure for that man can not reject the tenets of the faith and think he is still in that royal priesthood.

God Bless!

 

[amadeus]

Not true. As a matter of fact, even though there are two trains of thought within the RCC- Traditional and Ecumenicalism , it holds a lot of gold and precious gems.(Not denying that there are some falsehoods). The Truths- they were introduced by the little ones of that assembly in the Tradition handed down to them over the many centuries. What ones are in question for you?

By the grace of God, I have been given insight to His written word. And the Catholics can rejoice in what they have been given as well as the Orthodox and believe it or not- (you Catholics and Orthodox), Protestants hold some silver doctrine in knowledge , that too is very useful in bringing about solidarity of faith. What is held by all can bring about that one mindedness that is paramount for the body.

I agree with much of what you have said and of course with the scripture you posted, although likely our understanding of the scriptures would not be precisely the same. One question on your words above: How did you decide that the Protestants hold "silver" while the RCC holds "a lot of gold and precious gems"?

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." I Cor 3:11-15

The important thing, of course, for all of us, without regard to our adherence to one group or another, is that the foundation needs to be Jesus Christ. I would certainly hesitate with what I know to make a distinction between the three elements underlined above as you have done. They will each be purified by the fire, which God is [Heb 12:29], but the gold is considered in places to be superior to the silver in scripture as for example:

"And all king Solomon's drinking vessels were of gold, and all the vessels of the house of the forest of Lebanon were of pure gold; none were of silver: it was nothing accounted of in the days of Solomon." I Kings 10:21

Compared to gold, silver today also has a lower value. You must have had a definite reason to make this distinction. Would you care to share it with us?

Clearly the lack of unity amongst us all is not sown by Christ, but by men who did not lean upon the Beloved to make their doctrines. And those weed doctrines are peppered amongst all denominations. Some have more than others , but no doubt all have weeds.

For me, I have a great Love for my Saviour. But most importantly He has loved me . I have been studying for many years in order to understand all this division. I stopped and decided to think others greater than myself. I thought " I am going to listen to what everyone is saying and not just brush them off, on behalf of a denominational line". Our loyalty after all is toward Truth, not self-righteousness and empty pride that wants to dismiss another.
Philippians 2:3-
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Your Philippians reference is a very good one. If only all of us would strive to always really esteem everyone as better than themselves...? That is the road that Jesus took, but who else has always done the same?

I have chosen to sit down and study from all and then pray asking the Holy Spirit to guide me in my learning. I get it (LOVE) it helps us to find the answers needed to unite us all.

God Bless and Peace in Christ Jesus,
DNM.

What will it take to unite us all? Certainly not compromise as Jesus spoke strongly against it here:

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:66-67

Jesus' words meant that even if everyone were to leave Him, he would walk on alone. Peter's response gives us the answer as to how we are all to unite in Him. Uniting in compromise should also never be an option for any of us... if we believe we walking in and with Him.

"Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." John 6:68-69

 

[CovenantPromise]

It can also require another person sometimes. The eunuch could have read that prophecy all day without knowing what it meant. Likewise the people had read the Scriptures. They had someone come along with something; and then they searched the scriptures again to see if it could be so.

I would be afraid to think of myself that way. Perhaps I need to be more skeptical about myself and my own motives. I don't want to wind up hearing Jesus tell me to depart, that he never knew me. I need to be on guard.

My faith in is God. Abraham lived without a Bible. If we cannot, then there's something deficient with us. I don't know what many people mean by doctrines. I honestly don't. What do we need in the way of doctrines to please God? For me, a doctrine is useful only if it shows me how to love God or my fellow man more. Good doctrines bear good fruits. If our lives are a mess, bearing bad fruits, reading the Bible for correction and reproof may give us "sound doctrines" that help us in our daily lives.

No kidding Abraham lived without a bible he was living the bible to come. You are not the first predestined, Elect of God. You have a bible because you are NOT that. The apple tree ISRAEL is. That tree in which we have been awaken under the influence of has been presented to you. It is the Standard and Rod in which to conduct and measure our lives. You are not responsible for that. Nor is any gentile nation. Therefore , your assembly is simply a grafted in people, not of Jewish descent but of gentile in calling. So your point?
Hebrews 8:10-12
The New Covenant
…10For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. 11No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”…

This is the end game . After the sixth seal all who are to be of the fullness of the Covenant will not teach his neighbor . This is what Christ intended from the beginning. My point is, some still need guidance from priest. And a priesthood is to equalize and make brothers, not keep people underfoot. But men will still perform the altar duties , it is to glorify God.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Would you agree that the authority of God supersedes that of the Catholic church?

Yes, but I don't equate God's authority with Sola Scritpura.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Then it would seem that Timothy and Paul's words are useless according to what you say.

It is just this simple, if a Catholic is trying to convince a protestant of something concerning the Catholic Church he/she better be able to show with scripture that their doctrine is founded upon TRUTH. If God did not give us this measure (ROD) then anything can be passed off as God's Word, divinely inspired- Revelation, personal and/or promoted by an assembly. ALL doctrine must be supported by the foundation, that according to Timothy and Paul, not me. I did not lay the foundation, I simply believe all that is written in it. Doctrines are the sum of the language of the equation (scripture). Like the doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
Revelation/apparitions must be tested and we are told to do so in the written word.
1John 4:1-2
Testing the Spirits
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,…

An apparition which makes a pronouncement of something (if true) ....for instance like "I am the Immaculate Conception" it may be the SUM of something. And the answer is upheld by the foundation . We are being challenged to seek out the written word to find the equation of that sum. We must always lean upon the Beloved to know whether an apparition is heavenly or not. When men, take it upon themselves to create a doctrine and call it a Dogma (an authoritative truth) he must be sure that the Authority is Christ and not self. Otherwise he creates division and conflict amongst the faithful.

In conclusion , I will also argue that Protestants......when you PROVE a Dogma/doctrine of the Catholic Church to be true, with scripture alone, they deny their own anthem and reject that truth. It would seem they conveniently forgo scripture alone if what you show does not support their narrative. They then fall among the group of those who: Matthew 15:7-9
Tradition and Worship
…7You hypocrites! Isaiah prophesied correctly about you: 8‘These people honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. 9They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’”…
And when you prove something false within the Catholic Church and even Orthodoxy you get the most vile hatred spewed at the written word. As I said I did not lay the foundation I only uphold it, it is the STANDARD.

God Bless.
Yours truly,
DNM.

We are talking about such different things here, with different purposes.

 

[CovenantPromise]

I agree with much of what you have said and of course with the scripture you posted, although likely our understanding of the scriptures would not be precisely the same. One question on your words above: How did you decide that the Protestants hold "silver" while the RCC holds "a lot of gold and precious gems"?

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." I Cor 3:11-15

The important thing, of course, for all of us, without regard to our adherence to one group or another, is that the foundation needs to be Jesus Christ. I would certainly hesitate with what I know to make a distinction between the three elements underlined above as you have done. They will each be purified by the fire, which God is [Heb 12:29], but the gold is considered in places to be superior to the silver in scripture as for example:

"And all king Solomon's drinking vessels were of gold, and all the vessels of the house of the forest of Lebanon were of pure gold; none were of silver: it was nothing accounted of in the days of Solomon." I Kings 10:21

Compared to gold, silver today also has a lower value. You must have had a definite reason to make this distinction. Would you care to share it with us?

Your Philippians reference is a very good one. If only all of us would strive to always really esteem everyone as better than themselves...? That is the road that Jesus took, but who else has always done the same?


What will it take to unite us all? Certainly not compromise as Jesus spoke strongly against it here:

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:66-67

Jesus' words meant that even if everyone were to leave Him, he would walk on alone. Peter's response gives us the answer as to how we are all to unite in Him. Uniting in compromise should also never be an option for any of us... if we believe we walking in and with Him.

"Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." John 6:68-69

Addressing the silver doctrine thing. Joseph and Mary were married according to the Law. "And he knew her not until she brought forth her first born son" For me I do not care either way, that is not the main tenet of her service to God. And is not a measure in which to determine the meaning of perpetual virginity . Scripture is clear, and I know the meaning of her perpetual virginity. Scripture reveals it for those who are actually interested in finding it. But sometimes pride blinds men. And men devise their OWN doctrines that are not supported by the foundation- is my point.

Silver doctrine- I say because , many Protestants reject certain truths , like they believe in baptism but most only accept immersion when scripture is clear that pouring and sprinkling are acceptable too. Most Protestant preachers are of the fire and brimstone type but do not present the body and blood of Christ. That is fine as long as they simply glorify Christ and not bash people for believing in the fact that Christ is truly present in His ordained supper.
I say silver - because they do not choose to honor Mother Mary, that is their choice and that is fine as long as they do not bash those who do because there is no sin in doing so. So profess Christ without condemning those who choose to uphold all He says.

That is what I mean by silver doctrine. How can that , which is not a standard of higher quality be called something it is not? Concubines are to remain in praise of Christ not in bashing first fruits. They do not produce first fruits= those of the first resurrection. They are only responsible for spreading Christ's fame -name. But when they start attacking the HEART of the Law they have stepped out of bounds. Mother Mary is especially off limits if she is not considered with the upmost consideration.

 

[CovenantPromise]

We are talking about such different things here, with different purposes.

1 Corinthians 11:19
19And indeed, there must be differences among you to show which of you are approved.

 

[Enoch111]

Mother Mary is especially off limits if she is not considered with the utmost consideration.

Genuine Christians DO NOT disrespect Mary, the mother of Christ. By the same token they do not accept her designation as Queen of Heaven, or Mother of God, or Mediatrix, or any of the other titles given to her by the RCC and EOC, since that is NOT Bible doctrine.

The Catholics and Orthodox have invented another Mary, and made her equal to God and Christ. That is a very serious violation of Bible truth. Indeed erecting images of Mary and giving her priority over Christ is IDOLATRY.

 

[amadeus]

Viewing the results of Protestantism, I have to wonder if it would be wise for me to think I was receiving insight no one before me ever had. I figure it something is from the Holy Spirit, odds are I'll be able to find where someone else of good reputation also believed that. I would be afraid to think I can't be fooled.

You speak of "the results of Protestantism", but I would speak rather of the results of men and their very common and very general problems with understanding who, what and why Jesus was and is, as they [prior to Luther who was simply the straw breaking the camel's back] were heading fast into the same place, as I see it, as all of those who would drown rather than follow God into the Ark with Noah... But it was not over, was it?

After Noah came those men in Gen 11 building their tower of confusion, this time supposedly heading toward "heaven", but they missed God's Way. So God confused their languages. That did not solve the problems, but caused people to redirect, or be redirected, so that some of them might find a better way, God's Way. If we keeping reading through the OT, we see that this has been a continuing problem for men.

Finally God sent His Son, but while that provided a real solution for men who really wanted to become One with God, carnal men, some perhaps calling themselves holy men, did the same thing again. What we call the Reformation was really, as I see it, another Tower of Babel, where God used Luther and others to allow people to redirect, or be redirected, so that some them might find, or re-find, or restore that better Way, God's Way.

Today looking around us we see again the mess that existed just before they entered Noah's ark, and just before God confused the languages and Babylon, and just before the Reformation. In each case there were a few, were there not, who really did look to God? It has been the constantly repeating story of carnal men:

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." Ecc 1:9-11

In other words, men do not learn by the mistakes of all of those who came before... unless they are led by God Himself. For this reason really God allowed a Way, the only Way to Him for each person who was willing to undertake what He required of them:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

Don't believe any man alone or his church group! Believe God!

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them." Luke 17:20-23

 

[CovenantPromise]

Jane maybe your end game is to get more people into your denomination? Mine is simply to bring all in denominations to ONE understanding in Truth. I do not tell people to reject the other, but fellowship as deeply as you can given their standard and LOVE ALL. I obviously can not receive the Eucharist at most Protestant Churches , but may be moved to profess Christ as one on fire. I can not have the joy of the Ark of the New Covenant being presented there as I do say in the Catholic Church by those who uphold a traditional mass, or hear the chants of the Theotokos which is of Orthodox . So I fellowship as best I can with all. But if in that church they reject Mother Mary, for sure I am gone.

God Bless!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Jane maybe your end game is to get more people into your denomination?
Mine is simply to bring all in denominations to ONE understanding in Truth. I do not tell people to reject the other, but fellowship as deeply as you can given their standard and LOVE ALL. I obviously can not receive the Eucharist at most Protestant Churches , but may be moved to profess Christ as one on fire. I can not have the joy of the Ark of the New Covenant being presented there as I do say in the Catholic Church by those who uphold a traditional mass, or hear the chants of the Theotokos which is of Orthodox . So I fellowship as best I can with all. But if in that church they reject Mother Mary, for sure I am gone.

God Bless

Nope.

I actually really despise forum proselytizing: finding it incredibly counter-productive and destructive. I just like chatting with other people whom love Christ, of whichever stripe they may be (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Restorationist, whatever). My goal is explaining the different sources of authority (two example of which are Catholicism and Sola Scriptura) was to better foster that understanding.

 

[Giuliano]

No kidding Abraham lived without a bible he was living the bible to come. You are not the first predestined, Elect of God. You have a bible because you are NOT that. The apple tree ISRAEL is. That tree in which we have been awaken under the influence of has been presented to you. It is the Standard and Rod in which to conduct and measure our lives. You are not responsible for that. Nor is any gentile nation. Therefore , your assembly is simply a grafted in people, not of Jewish descent but of gentile in calling. So your point?

I remind you that the Law was given to Israel not me. So were the Prophets and Writings. Your statement is lacking in logic, even fallacious. Gentiles can keep the things in the Spiritual Law without reading the laws of Moses.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )

Hebrews 8:10-12
The New Covenant
…10For this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord. I will put My laws in their minds, and inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they will be My people. 11No longer will each one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”…

That was what the original covenant was meant to be. Most Jews know and accept this. Is there a need for a "new" covenant with Gentiles?

This is the end game . After the sixth seal all who are to be of the fullness of the Covenant will not teach his neighbor . This is what Christ intended from the beginning. My point is, some still need guidance from priest. And a priesthood is to equalize and make brothers, not keep people underfoot. But men will still perform the altar duties , it is to glorify God.

I'm not sure why you're introducing the Sixth Seal into the question; what are those ruling with Jesus for a thousand years doing? I think you may need to revise your views. There is a need for priests even during the Thousand Year Reign.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I also ask what of this?

Zechariah 8:22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

 

[Giuliano]

You speak of "the results of Protestantism", but I would speak rather of the results of men and their very common and very general problems with understanding who, what and why Jesus was and is, as they [prior to Luther who was simply the straw breaking the camel's back] were heading fast into the same place, as I see it, as all of those who would drown rather than follow God into the Ark with Noah... But it was not over, was it?

After Noah came those men in Gen 11 building their tower of confusion, this time supposedly heading toward "heaven", but they missed God's Way. So God confused their languages. That did not solve the problems, but caused people to redirect, or be redirected, so that some of them might find a better way, God's Way. If we keeping reading through the OT, we see that this has been a continuing problem for men.

Finally God sent His Son, but while that provided a real solution for men who really wanted to become One with God, carnal men, some perhaps calling themselves holy men, did the same thing again. What we call the Reformation was really, as I see it, another Tower of Babel, where God used Luther and others to allow people to redirect, or be redirected, so that some them might find, or re-find, or restore that better Way, God's Way.

Today looking around us we see again the mess that existed just before they entered Noah's ark, and just before God confused the languages and Babylon, and just before the Reformation. In each case there were a few, were there not, who really did look to God? It has been the constantly repeating story of carnal men:

"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after." Ecc 1:9-11

In other words, men do not learn by the mistakes of all of those who came before... unless they are led by God Himself. For this reason really God allowed a Way, the only Way to Him for each person who was willing to undertake what He required of them:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matt 7:13-14

Don't believe any man alone or his church group! Believe God!

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them." Luke 17:20-23

I think people can err by going to the left and to the right. Some are too independent, being wise in their own eyes, while others slavishly follow the teachings of others without ever coming to see anything for themselves, never progressing.

 

[CovenantPromise]

Genuine Christians DO NOT disrespect Mary, the mother of Christ. By the same token they do not accept her designation as Queen of Heaven, or Mother of God, or Mediatrix, or any of the other titles given to her by the RCC and EOC, since that is NOT Bible doctrine.

The Catholics and Orthodox have invented another Mary, and made her equal to God and Christ. That is a very serious violation of Bible truth. Indeed erecting images of Mary and giving her priority over Christ is IDOLATRY.

Well then you do not know the scriptures if do not know that she is. What you tend to do is, pick and choose what you want when clearly scripture shows her to be a queen simply because Christ is the King of kings and Lord of Lords. And all the foreshadowing of the OC is a precursor to what would be in man and the house of the Lord. Of which she is blessed among women (THAT MEANS ALL) and being least due to her designation as a woman, she is even greater than the greatest man born of women (natural conception) John the Baptist.
Matthew 11:10-11
Jesus Testifies about John
…10This is the one about whom it is written: ‘Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You, who will prepare Your way before You.’ 11Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Christ is not saying that the least of men is greater than he after He just got done saying that John is the greatest man born of women. No, that would be a contradiction. He is saying that the least, in this case woman- a woman for that matter is greater than even him. And that therefore, would be she who BLESSED among women. Obviously that statement that sister Elizabeth made means exactly that- BLESSED AMONG WOMEN. So she who least -a woman is greater than John. And she right now is in the Temple of God in heaven, as the Ark of the New and everlasting covenant. Is she a queen? , you better believe it. And while you are simply saying she in not, why not prove with the scripture she is as you say she is. I will guarantee you will not be able to. But I knowing the scriptures and all the house of God in love, will be able to prove she is the queen of heaven as sure as Christ is king.That she is a mediator between Christ and men to bring men to her Son.
Mediator:a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between.
synonyms:arbitrator, arbiter, negotiator, conciliator, go-between, middleman, intermediary, moderator, intervenor, interceder, intercessor, reconciler, broker, honest broker, liaison officer, peacemaker, umpire, referee, adjudicator, judge

If you are not a mediator between men and Christ then who are you mediating on behalf of, Christ or yourself? as for Mother of God , is Christ God?

Isaiah 9:6
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government will be upon his shoulder,
and his name will be called
“Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Is Christ God Yes or No?

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Didn't John say the Word was God then said the Word became flesh and dwelt with us? So is the Word God and did God dwell with men, as a man?
God Bless!
DNM.