"Why I'm Not Pre-Mil"

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WPM

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Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

A plain reading of the passage before us reveals that Christ is coming back with wrath to execute judgment and destroy all those left behind. He is not going to reward men for their rebellion by leading them unto the glorified new earth. Neither is Christ coming to engage in some ill-fated war against evil for a thousand years – that is not remotely in the text. The King of kings and Lord of lords will not have to fight for victory. He already won that decisively at the cross.

Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: Heis coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

Revelation 19:17-18 continues, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

Please see that the wicked are destroyed by the sword of His voice. This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

The feasting part of the marriage supper of the Lamb is a symbolism depicted the destruction of the wicked. Why can this not be a symbolic depiction of the return of Christ and the events that accompany it (including the destruction of the wicked)?

The first part of the narrative outlines a detailed account of the assignment given to “the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven” by the heavenly messenger. The “fowls” are instructed to “come and gather” themselves “together unto the supper of the great God” in order that they would “eat”:

1. The flesh of kings,
2. The flesh of captains,
3. The flesh of mighty men,
4. The flesh of horses, them that sit on them,
5. The flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

This passage powerfully and solemnly reveals the full extent of the devastation that is to be focused upon the wicked on the day of God’s wrath. In perfect keeping with the rest of Scripture, this narrative graphically shows us that the destruction that occurs will be immediate, absolute and total and that, at this stage – after “the marriage of the Lamb” (Rev 19:7) – everyone left behind will be completely consumed; the birds of heaven filling themselves with “the flesh of all men.” Significantly, the suffix “both free and bond, both small and great” is added in order to fully impress the enormity and all-inclusive nature of this feast.

The whole thrust of this reading surrounds a climactic end to the world. Like the rest of Scripture, it records the complete rescue of the saints in the “marriage of the lamb” and the complete destruction of the wicked when the fowls consume the entire wicked left behind. The passage makes no allowance for goats-survivors in this great destruction passage or mortals squeezing into a supposed future millennium. This reading seems to fit in with the scriptural pattern of an all-consummating Coming - all the wicked being consumed.
 

David Boyer

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Revelation 19:11-16, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

A plain reading of the passage before us reveals that Christ is coming back with wrath to execute judgment and destroy all those left behind. He is not going to reward men for their rebellion by leading them unto the glorified new earth. Neither is Christ coming to engage in some ill-fated war against evil for a thousand years – that is not remotely in the text. The King of kings and Lord of lords will not have to fight for victory. He already won that decisively at the cross.

Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: Heis coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

Revelation 19:17-18 continues, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

Please see that the wicked are destroyed by the sword of His voice. This is complete wholesale total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

The feasting part of the marriage supper of the Lamb is a symbolism depicted the destruction of the wicked. Why can this not be a symbolic depiction of the return of Christ and the events that accompany it (including the destruction of the wicked)?

The first part of the narrative outlines a detailed account of the assignment given to “the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven” by the heavenly messenger. The “fowls” are instructed to “come and gather” themselves “together unto the supper of the great God” in order that they would “eat”:

1. The flesh of kings,
2. The flesh of captains,
3. The flesh of mighty men,
4. The flesh of horses, them that sit on them,
5. The flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

This passage powerfully and solemnly reveals the full extent of the devastation that is to be focused upon the wicked on the day of God’s wrath. In perfect keeping with the rest of Scripture, this narrative graphically shows us that the destruction that occurs will be immediate, absolute and total and that, at this stage – after “the marriage of the Lamb” (Rev 19:7) – everyone left behind will be completely consumed; the birds of heaven filling themselves with “the flesh of all men.” Significantly, the suffix “both free and bond, both small and great” is added in order to fully impress the enormity and all-inclusive nature of this feast.

The whole thrust of this reading surrounds a climactic end to the world. Like the rest of Scripture, it records the complete rescue of the saints in the “marriage of the lamb” and the complete destruction of the wicked when the fowls consume the entire wicked left behind. The passage makes no allowance for goats-survivors in this great destruction passage or mortals squeezing into a supposed future millennium. This reading seems to fit in with the scriptural pattern of an all-consummating Coming - all the wicked being consumed.


Why do you cut/copy/paste.
I ain't reading all that... but if you want to pick a single point to make I will listen.
But you are just regurgitating old manna here and I only deal with the fresh stuff.
Make a single clear point with references and I will listen.
Speeches I will not listen to.
Make a single point. Reference it... then follow up.
There are too many things to correct in such a large diatribe.
 

Truth7t7

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We Agree!

The Doctrine Of A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth Is A Big "Non-Response"

You Proved The Point And Claim, Yet You Will Cling To Its Teaching Without Question, Sad!
 

David Boyer

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We Agree!

The Doctrine Of A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth Is A Big "Non-Response"

You Proved The Point And Claim, Yet You Will Cling To Its Teaching Without Question, Sad!

You are very confused. You asked "waiting?" and I responded "yerp" and you took that as validation of your position? I was waiting for you to make a valid point.
And your other two statements don't even make sense. If you care to explain I will listen... but you gotta explain.
"I proved the point and claim..." What does that refer to?
"yet I cling to its teaching" What is the it? What even is the teaching I cling to?
You haven't asked me any questions... so you have no flipping idea what I believe.
 

Truth7t7

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Why do you cut/copy/paste.
I ain't reading all that... but if you want to pick a single point to make I will listen.
But you are just regurgitating old manna here and I only deal with the fresh stuff.
Make a single clear point with references and I will listen.
Speeches I will not listen to.
Make a single point. Reference it... then follow up.
There are too many things to correct in such a large diatribe.
Dave you can't find your Kingdom on Earth for 1,000 years, or Mortal Humans present below in Revelation 20:1-6 and you know it!

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Timtofly

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(The Souls) and (The Dead) in Revelation 20:4-6 are physically living upon this earth?

The very reason why I refrain from conversation with you, unreal, fictional
No one says souls and dead are on the earth.

That is a smoke screen argument.

Those in death remain in death and are not resurrected. How is that hard to grasp. They have been there since the first descendant of Adam died who was not redeemed. Are you declaring that is not a fact because that is too spiritual?

Those souls are given life:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Those sitting on the thrones judged them and gave them life, this is the first resurrection. To whom does that first resurrection pertain if not these judged souls? Do you expect them to be bodies without heads standing there, and then given life? John was being symbolic, not spiritual. Certainly one would not reign with Christ 1,000 years and not have a head attached to their body. Do you reject a resurrection because you prefer headless bodies instead? Those souls lost Adam's body when it was decapitated. Don't you plan on having a different body? If these souls experienced the first resurrection, then they were given permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They reigned on earth in that camp of the saints. Since they reign with Christ, then Christ as King reigned in that beloved city. Why would you have souls only, when a resurrection is mentioned, judgment is mentioned, and it is stated they lived, not remained souls without bodies? Why is the camp of the saints not these same souls?

Are you stuck in OT Judaism where souls inhabit Abraham's bosom? They never roamed around on earth. That changed at the Cross, no more bodiless souls. Matthew 27:52 declares they had bodies and left their graves permanently. So "soul" is not some ethereal state. It is just symbolism for exchanging one body for a more permanent body. The soul remains even if the beheaded body is left behind. But these souls are judged and given a permanent incorruptible physical body. These are not glorified, so cannot be with the church in Paradise, they would be out of place.
 
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Timtofly

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What happens at the end of the millennium mirrors what other Scripture tells us happens at the end of our age. There is an intense persecution at the end. Christ comes to judge as it concludes. There is much Scripture that teaches an end-time falling away and tribulation before Christ comes.
"Mirrors" is about as right as you can get. But Revelation 20:3's little season is after the 1,000 years, after the Second Coming.

Satan is given 42 months after the Second Coming and final harvest.

Satan is given a short season. A season is about 3 months. There are 14 seasons in 42 months.

So, no, Revelation 13 is not the same time as Revelation 20:7-10.
 

David Boyer

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Dave you can't find your Kingdom on Earth for 1,000 years, or Mortal Humans present below in Revelation 20:1-6 and you know it!

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I've already debunked this and it is the third time you have posted this.
Also it appears to be addressed to Dave. Who that is I do not know for I am David.
 

Timtofly

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The Premillennialist MO is to ignore the Scripture passages presented that forbid their teaching and counter it with their own opinions. That sums up your doctrine. You cannot deal with the sacred text.
And this is just another opinionated post with no Scripture. Just saying. Having thoughts on eschatology sums up every post in this forum. Amil cannot deal with the text that declares a first resurrection in Revelation 20:4-6.
 

WPM

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Why do you cut/copy/paste.
I ain't reading all that... but if you want to pick a single point to make I will listen.
But you are just regurgitating old manna here and I only deal with the fresh stuff.
Make a single clear point with references and I will listen.
Speeches I will not listen to.
Make a single point. Reference it... then follow up.
There are too many things to correct in such a large diatribe.

You have no answer. That is why you avoid. This passage shows the utter destruction of all the wicked. It forbids Premil.
 

The Light

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"Why I'm Not Pre-Mil"

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


I have reviewed your reasons on why you are not pre-mil. They are certainly excellent and fully acceptable reasons. However, to be fully correct they need to be prefaced by the number one reason that you are not pre-mil. Your reasoning to be fully acceptable should look like this.

1.) I don't understand the Word!
2.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
3.) Physical Earthly Throne?
4.) Physical Mortal Humans?
 

Truth7t7

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I've already debunked this and it is the third time you have posted this.
Also it appears to be addressed to Dave. Who that is I do not know for I am David.
You have debunked "Nothing"

Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% The Lord's Spiritual Realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

Your Claimed Kingdom On Earth, With Mortal Humans Running Around Is A Sci-Fi Fairy Tale
 

Truth7t7

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I have reviewed your reasons on why you are not pre-mil. They are certainly excellent and fully acceptable reasons. However, to be fully correct they need to be prefaced by the number one reason that you are not pre-mil. Your reasoning to be fully acceptable should look like this.

1.) I don't understand the Word!
2.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
3.) Physical Earthly Throne?
4.) Physical Mortal Humans?
Keep Looking For Your Millennial Kingdom On Earth With Mortal Humans Running Around, It Doesn't Exist In Scripture

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived


Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

No Pre-TB

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So, are you saying that there are going to be wicked upon the earth for the whole of eternity in the new heavens and the earth?
No sir. But from the time the bride comes till Satan is freed and then destroyed, I don’t see things as perfect. Only afterwards do I see all adversaries and rebels fully removed.
 

WPM

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No sir. But from the time the bride comes till Satan is freed and then destroyed, I don’t see things as perfect. Only afterwards do I see all adversaries and rebels fully removed.

But you were presenting Rev 22:14-15 as support for a future millennium, yet it is clearly after the millennium.
 

Timtofly

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But you were presenting Rev 22:14-15 as support for a future millennium, yet it is clearly after the millennium.
Or it is the current state of affairs:

"And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand."

The vision is over. John is back on Patmos, terra firma.

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

This is still true today.

"For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Those who are outside of Christ are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Obviously we are, ourselves outside of Paradise, that city where the church currently hangs out day and night seving in God's temple. Revelation 7:15

"Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."

Both these verses have been true since 30AD.

The earth has billions still outside of Christ, and many continually enter Paradise daily since the thief entered the very day Jesus declared, "It is finished".

When you pass from this body of death into life, are you not expecting to enter the gates of Paradise that city mentioned?

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

This is not some future event. This has been an ongoing phenomenon since the thief on the cross. Paradise is that city with gates flung open wide just as the veil was physically rent in two, to give full access to the Holy of Holies. The thief was the first to enter those gates and serve God day and night in His temple, that day.

Revelation 20 is not about experiencing heaven and Paradise. Revelation 20 is a kingdom on earth, the camp of the saints, that beloved city. The place where people on earth marched against a city on earth. That is not forcing my opinion onto the text. That is God's Word informing us of things to come.
 

No Pre-TB

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But you were presenting Rev 22:14-15 as support for a future millennium, yet it is clearly after the millennium.
I take those verses within the reign of Christ. Not after his reign is complete when all things are given up to God. I suppose that’s where we differ.
 

farouk

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Jan 21, 2009
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I take those verses within the reign of Christ. Not after his reign is complete when all things are given up to God. I suppose that’s where we differ.
Seems to me that the Lord's coming in 1 Cor. 11.26 (Lord's Supper institution) is specifically linked with the church.