Why Is Faith Counted As Righteousness (Ro 4:5)?

[bro.tan]

No.

Read the OP before responding to it.

Proverbs 18
13If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame

Why Is Faith Counted As Righteousness (Ro 4:5)?​

Paul says in (Heb.11: (v.1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (v.17) By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that received the promises offered up his only begotten son. Now here is the father of the faithful, and how did he show God the he had faith in him? By his works!

Let's go to Romans 4: 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. This is whole chapter is pretty much about Abraham and how did the will of God with out hesitation. Because it's written in Matthew 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Now thats the righteousness, to be a doer of the word of God and not just a hearer. (James 1: 21,22)

Now here is the part when I'm so call off topic. Because these example in the Bible is to point to one direction, and that's the Kingdom of God. For faith to be counted as righteousness you have to have works. James says in 2: (v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? How can a person, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. (v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God.

So we living in the times where we have the word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, and all through the Bible the lord is saying the same thing, and that's keep the Commandments, statues and Judgement. Paul says in Romans 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This is how we must show God our righteousness in him, by walking in the spirit and his laws.
Paul says in Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Let's go back to Romans 8: 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

So if you have faith in God you will be a doer of his word, which includes his laws (Commandments), Statues, and Judges, and it will be counted as righteousness. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12: 13, 14).

​

 

[GracePeace]

Why Is Faith Counted As Righteousness (Ro 4:5)?​

Paul says in (Heb.11: (v.1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (v.17) By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that received the promises offered up his only begotten son. Now here is the father of the faithful, and how did he show God the he had faith in him? By his works!

Let's go to Romans 4: 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. This is whole chapter is pretty much about Abraham and how did the will of God with out hesitation. Because it's written in Matthew 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Now thats the righteousness, to be a doer of the word of God and not just a hearer. (James 1: 21,22)

Now here is the part when I'm so call off topic. Because these example in the Bible is to point to one direction, and that's the Kingdom of God. For faith to be counted as righteousness you have to have works. James says in 2: (v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? How can a person, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. (v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (v.23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT WAS IMPUTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS: and he was called the friend of God.

So we living in the times where we have the word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, and all through the Bible the lord is saying the same thing, and that's keep the Commandments, statues and Judgement. Paul says in Romans 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This is how we must show God our righteousness in him, by walking in the spirit and his laws.
Paul says in Colossians 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; 10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Let's go back to Romans 8: 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

So if you have faith in God you will be a doer of his word, which includes his laws (Commandments), Statues, and Judges, and it will be counted as righteousness. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (Ecclesiastes 12: 13, 14).

​

It sounds like you're trying to dispute something I never argued.

Where did I say "faith alone"? I didn't.

I merely stated what Paul stated, "faith is counted as righteousness", and explored WHY that would be.

 

[Bob Estey]

Since unrighteousness is a suppression of the truth about God (Ro 1:18,19), the flip side of the same coin would be that righteousness is a revelation of the truth about God : when God speaks about Himself, and we adhere to the Word God spoke (ie, God's Gospel about His Son), we are saying, "God is true", thus that counts as righteousness.

Romans 1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth [m]in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident [n]within them; for God made it evident to them.

John 3
33Whoever receives His testimony sets his seal to this, that "God is true".

1 John 5
10... whoever does not believe God has made Him out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given about His Son.

I would say it makes the Lord's job much easier when we trust him.

 

[bro.tan]

It sounds like you're trying to dispute something I never argued.

Where did I say "faith alone"? I didn't.

I merely stated what Paul stated, "faith is counted as righteousness", and explored WHY that would be.

What you fail to realize is, that it is more to just picking a verse out of chapter. I'm not disputing anything, but the word of God connects like a puzzle, it all fits together, and that's how you learn. It's seem like you looking for a problem then understanding. It's a great thing to have faith, but you have to works to produce righteousness. It all works to together, that's why Paul use Abraham in that chapter as an example of faith and righteousness. Although Paul was also talking about the promises God made with Abraham through his faith and righteousness, but if Jesus didn't come down and die and be raise, all that was in vain.

What I showed according to your topic, is what faith and righteousness is, using Abraham as an example of faith and works, and how to apply all that to our walk in this word of God. That's what the word of God does.

Let's take a look at 1 Peter 4: 8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. 9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[GracePeace]

What you fail to realize is, that it is more to just picking a verse out of chapter. I'm not disputing anything, but the word of God connects like a puzzle, it all fits together, and that's how you learn. It's seem like you looking for a problem then understanding. It's a great thing to have faith, but you have to works to produce righteousness. It all works to together, that's why Paul use Abraham in that chapter as an example of faith and righteousness. Although Paul was also talking about the promises God made with Abraham through his faith and righteousness, but if Jesus didn't come down and die and be raise, all that was in vain.

What I showed according to your topic, is what faith and righteousness is, using Abraham as an example of faith and works, and how to apply all that to our walk in this word of God. That's what the word of God does.

Let's take a look at 1 Peter 4: 8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. 9 Use hospitality one to another without grudging. 10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

You're off topic.

 

[bro.tan]

You're off topic.

I'm not! In the scriptures it's written in Proverbs 4: 7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: And with all thy getting get understanding.

 

[GracePeace]

I'm not! In the scriptures it's written in Proverbs 4: 7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: And with all thy getting get understanding.

You're off topic.

 

[bro.tan]

You're off topic.

I'm spot on topic. There is no faith with righteousness, without works and I prove it. A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
(Proverb 1: 5)

 

[GracePeace]

I'm spot on topic. There is no faith with righteousness, without works and I prove it. A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
(Proverb 1: 5)

Read the OP before responding to the OP.

Proverbs 18
13He who answers a matter before he hears it—this is folly and disgrace to him.

If you disagree with the things said in the OP, then quote sections of the OP and explain why it is you think that the things said in the OP are wrong.

Thank you.

 

[GracePeace]

There is no faith with righteousness, without works and I prove it.

1. "Faith is counted as righteousness" is a direct quote from Scripture, so there is no overturning it.
2. When I quote that verse, I am not denying that walking in faith is also mandatory--so you're arguing against an argument I never made--just look at all of my other threads, where I am arguing that Christians must walk in faith :

Filthy Rags versus Fine Linen Bright and Clean​

Justified by Works​

No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?​

Matthew 18 - Is Jesus Lying Or Are You Lying?​

No Condemnation For Those In Christ (Romans 8:1)​

 

[bro.tan]

1. "Faith is counted as righteousness" is a direct quote from Scripture, so there is no overturning it.
2. When I quote that verse, I am not denying that walking in faith is also mandatory--so you're arguing against an argument I never made--just look at all of my other threads, where I am arguing that Christians must walk in faith :

I agree with that we must walk in faith as christians, but the Bible teaches that you have to have works with that faith, and you must have works with righteousness. Why is that hard to understand. Roman Christianity teaches that you have faith without works, but that's not biblical. Paul said in (Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. (Habakkuk 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22).

I'm not arguing with you, but you can't teach faith and righteousness without works. When you do that, you leave people naked, and they are not being steer in the right direction toward God. All your teaching should lead people in the kingdom of God, which consist of Keeping his Commandments, Statues and Judgements. If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

Filthy Rags versus Fine Linen Bright and Clean​

Justified by Works​

No Condemnation For Those In Christ, But... Sinning Believers Are Condemned Ro 14:23?​

Matthew 18 - Is Jesus Lying Or Are You Lying?​

No Condemnation For Those In Christ (Romans 8:1)​

 

[GracePeace]

I agree with that we must walk in faith as christians, but the Bible teaches that you have to have works with that faith, and you must have works with righteousness. Why is that hard to understand. Roman Christianity teaches that you have faith without works, but that's not biblical. Paul said in (Gal. 3:11) But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. This didn’t start in the New Testament, Paul was only quoting scripture, and the just has always lived by their faith. (Habakkuk 2:4) Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. The just shall live by his belief (faith), and how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your obedience to his word. The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22).

I'm not arguing with you, but you can't teach faith and righteousness without works. When you do that, you leave people naked, and they are not being steer in the right direction toward God. All your teaching should lead people in the kingdom of God, which consist of Keeping his Commandments, Statues and Judgements. If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

You're arguing against arguments I never made.
"Why is that hard to understand?"

 

[bro.tan]

You're arguing against arguments I never made.
"Why is that hard to understand?"

What I said is to be understood, not to continue to respond back and forth.

 

[GracePeace]

What I said is to be understood, not to continue to respond back and forth.

"Just obey me" : That's an "interesting" way to have a discussion.

No, actually, you aren't responding to the OP, and you are contradicting Scripture, and I have something to say about your mishandling of my words as well as those of Scripture.

 

[GracePeace]

I'm not arguing with you, but you can't teach faith and righteousness without works.

Yeah, you're not on topic--you're not "arguing with me", you're not addressing the OP.

Stop treating my threads like a dump--leaving your unrelated thoughts.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Righteousness - “diakosune” is a legal term, It literally means “right standing”

A person who is charged with a crime and found innocent, is found righteous, or another term is justified.

If they are found guilty. They are found not righteous, and a debt is incurred that the person has to pay to make up for his crime.

The bible says there are none righteous, no not one. We have all sinned (literally “missed the mark”) and fall short of the glory of God.

it means in the legal sense, we are all guilty. Ie, we are all unrighteousness (we have fallen out of right standing with God

Since we are all guilty, we all have a debt to pay to the judge (God) God has declared that wage or penalty is death (for the wage of sin is death)

every man woman an child who ever lived has fallen unto this death because of their sin. Hence Jesus telling nicodemus, if we want to enter the kingdom of God. We must be born again (made alive)

since no one is righteous, and since the wage of sin is death, and we are unable to pay that wage to get ourselves out of our own demise. God had to send someone to pay that debt in our place (Jesus)

1. jesus did not break the law. Like adam, he was born with no sin, and he lived his life and never sinned even once.
2. Since he was perfect (unblemished) he could satisfy the wrath of God or the judge, by offering himself up as a ransom for those who are guilty (unrighteous)
3. Since he is God. He could offer himself up for everyone. Not just one other person.

SInce Jesus paid the ransom, He is now able to offer than ransom to his creation (those he died for) so they could be redeemed, This is called redemption. He purchased our freedom from he penalty which was contrary and against us, having nailed it to the cross.

So when we come to God in faith. Like abraham did all those years ago. God “imputes” that righteousness (right standing) to the person who recieved him in faith, This of course is offered as a grace gift (For it is by Grace we have been saved through faith)

hence, we who were dead in tresspasses and sin, are made alive in Christ. Because we have been declaired righteous (justified) by Having the righteousness of Christ imputed on our behalf.

This is called salvation, Eternal life, New birth, The adoption as sons and daughters.

we see this in the law on the day of atonement

We have the ark of the covenant, in the ark are the ten commands, Arrons rod that bided and the manna. When the cherub look in the lark. They see everything God has, which proves that mankind is guilty (everything charged against them)

An unblemished animal is slaughters, and his blood is sprinkled on the ark. Now when the cherub looks. He does not see the charges which makes man guilty, He sees the blood, which literally “covers” the guilt. And art ones for the sin of the people.

 

[bro.tan]

Yeah, you're not on topic--you're not "arguing with me", you're not addressing the OP.

Stop treating my threads like a dump--leaving your unrelated thoughts.

Paul says in (2Tim. 2:15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, (not man) a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You must rightfully divide the word of God, you must find out where every thing fits because fit it does.

 

[bro.tan]

"Just obey me" : That's an "interesting" way to have a discussion.

No, actually, you aren't responding to the OP, and you are contradicting Scripture, and I have something to say about your mishandling of my words as well as those of Scripture.

I notice your heart and I see how you use words. You lying on me saying I'm off topic when I'm not. It's something else you don't like, but off topic I'm not. Did you show me how I'm off topic, no! But you continue pushing that off topic and that proverb scripture and I'm not doing this or that. But you suppose to be a christian, and this is how you function. Now, maybe you using faith and righteousness to make a point that you see, and maybe I see another point using faith and righteousness. I'm not talking about being born again, I'm not talking about going to heaven, I'm not talking about new Jerusalem, etc. I didn't get on this thread saying you wrong, about anything, I just post my knowledge and understanding on the topic, kinda like Paul did in the whole Roman 4ch. People need to see other way of looking at truth, that why Matthew, Mark, and luke can say the same things in a different way. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (James 3:18). But you don't want peace, because you continue conducting yourself with no understanding and not showing the love of the word of God. I cause no harm, and you trying make it seems that I am. Allow me to do the Lord's work in peace.


Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door. (James 5:9)

 

[GracePeace]

Paul says in (2Tim. 2:15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, (not man) a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. You must rightfully divide the word of God, you must find out where every thing fits because fit it does.

Yeah, and?

 

[GracePeace]

Now, maybe you using faith and righteousness to make a point that you see, and maybe I see another point using faith and righteousness. I'm not talking about being born again, I'm not talking about going to heaven, I'm not talking about new Jerusalem, etc. I didn't get on this thread saying you wrong, about anything, I just post my knowledge and understanding on the topic,

You just admitted you're not on topic--you're not disagreeing, and you're definitely not agreeing, you're just posting another point.

Do not share your unrelated thoughts here. To do that, go publish your own thread. When you reply to a thread, you engage with topic which was raised by the OP, or else you're off topic.

But you don't want peace, because you continue conducting yourself with no understanding and not showing the love of the word of God. I cause no harm, and you trying make it seems that I am. Allow me to do the Lord's work in peace.

You are off topic, and you are spreading misunderstanding, so, no, I won't be quiet.

I advise you to make your own threads where you can share your perspectives, not dump your own thoughts on others' threads when they're not on topic.