Why some reject Jesus and the gospel

[Duckybill]

God is not a literal fire.......God is spirit. It just means like fire it consumes and what God consumes or destroyes is evil. As far as the rest of what you say I have already delt with that.

Anyway, the object of my OP is to show why some do not believe and we should not force what we believe on them, or say they are going to burn in Hell just because they don't believe. The gospel is good news; that is the message we should bring to people. If God has not granted them repentance it is not going to help by making threats of going to Hell.

Have you never read the NT? Punishment in fire and everlasting/eternal punishment are clearly taught. This is part of the Gospel:

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

There is no hope for anyone who enters the fire, NEVER.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Have you never read the NT? Punishment in fire and everlasting/eternal punishment are clearly taught. This is part of the Gospel:

Matthew 13:49-50 (NKJV)
49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

There is no hope for anyone who enters the fire, NEVER.

I am well aware of the scriptures.......I study all the scriptures (the New and the Old Testament). The gospel means good news or good message........so teaching about Hell is not the gospel. And I never said that anyone who is cast into the lake of fire would be resurrected. I mean, if you'll are misunderstanding what I have been saying then how can you understand the Bible? Because I am not speaking in riddles enigma.

 

[Duckybill]

I am well aware of the scriptures.......I study all the scriptures (the New and the Old Testament). The gospel means good news or good message........so teaching about Hell is not the gospel. And I never said that anyone who is cast into the lake of fire would be resurrected. I mean, if you'll are misunderstanding what I have been saying then how can you understand the Bible? Because I am not speaking in riddles enigma.

Jesus and the Apostles taught about Hell several times in the NT. It is part of the Gospel of Jesus.

Gos·pel

noun
1. the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2. the story of Christ's life and teachings, especially as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/gospel

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[Buzzfruit]

Jesus and the Apostles taught about Hell several times in the NT. It is part of the Gospel of Jesus.

Show me how many scriptures where the world Hell is meantined in comparison to the gospel of the kingdom. Can you show me where the scriptures say that telling people about Hell is even part of the gospel?

Gos·pel

noun
1. the teachings of Jesus and the apostles; the Christian revelation.
2. the story of Christ's life and teachings, especially as contained in the first four books of the New Testament, namely Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

http://dictionary.re...m/browse/gospel

You are using a dictionary?How about using a concordance that provides the what the world that is translated gospel means?

Matthew 4:23 (ASV)
[sup]23 [/sup]And Jesus went about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of disease and all manner of sickness among the people.


Greek Strong's Number: 2098


Gospel
Greek Word: εὐαγγέλιον
Transliteration: euangelion
Root: from the same as <G2097>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:721,267

Vine's Words: Gospel

from the same as <G2097> (euaggelizo); a good message, i.e. the gospel :- gospel.

— Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary


Gospel
Usage Number: A-1
Part Of Speech: Noun
Strong's Number: <G2098>
Original Word: εὐαγγέλιον, euangelion

Usage Notes: originally denoted a reward for good tidings; later, the idea of reward dropped, and the word stood for "the good news" itself. The Eng. word "gospel," i.e. "good message," is the equivalent of euangelion (Eng., "evangel"). In the NT it denotes the "good tidings" of the Kingdom of God and of salvation through Christ, to be received by faith, on the basis of His expiatory death, His burial, resurrection, and ascension, e.g., Acts 15:7; Acts 20:24; 1 Pet. 4:17. Apart from those references and those in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark, and Rev. 14:6, the noun is confined to Paul's Epistles. The Apostle uses it of two associated yet distinct things, (a) of the basic facts of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, e.g., 1 Cor. 15:1-3; (b ) of the interpretation of these facts, e.g., Rom. 2:16; Gal. 1:7, 11; Gal. 2:2; in (a) the "Gospel" is viewed historically, in (b ) doctrinally, with reference to the interpretation of the facts, as is sometimes indicated by the context.

— Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words

 

[Duckybill]

Show me how many scriptures where the world Hell is meantined in comparison to the gospel of the kingdom. Can you show me where the scriptures say that telling people about Hell is even part of the gospel?

Is this a contest? Why are you so upset at the NT doctrine of punishment in the everlasting fire?

You are using a dictionary?How about using a concordance that provides the what the world that is translated gospel means?
Matthew 4:23 (ASV)
[sup]23 [/sup]And Jesus went about in all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of disease and all manner of sickness among the people.

Greek Strong's Number: 2098
Gospel

Greek Word: εὐαγγέλιον
Transliteration: euangelion
Phonetic Pronunciation:<a href="http://www.crossbooks.com/book.asp?pub=0&book=58&wave=G2098">yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on
Root: from the same as <G2097>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:721,267
Part of Speech: n n
Vine's Words: Gospel

from the same as <G2097> (euaggelizo); a good message, i.e. the gospel :- gospel.

— Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary

The "good message" is that all who surrender to Jesus won't be cast into the eternal fire. That's real good news.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Is this a contest? Why are you so upset at the NT doctrine of punishment in the everlasting fire?

Just because I ask you for proof you are saying this? Do you believe everything you hear from the pulpit just because the person is a minister? Does not the scripture says prove all things and hold fast to that which is good?

The "good message" is that all who surrender to Jesus won't be cast into the eternal fire. That's real good news.

That's not how Jesus did it......He never told the people believe the gospel so that you don't go to Hell.

So you can twist it all you want the fact still is telling people about Hell is not the gospel. There is no good news about that......that is bad news.......Jesus never told the people who crucified Him that they were going to Hell. He never told the hypocritical Pharisees who wanted Him dead that they were going to Hell. That's the example Jesus set.

 

[Duckybill]

That's not how Jesus did it......He never told the people believe the gospel so that you don't go to Hell.

So you can twist it all you want the fact still is telling people about Hell is not the gospel. There is no good news about that......that is bad news.......Jesus never told the people who crucified Him that they were going to Hell. He never told the hypocritical Pharisees who wanted Him dead that they were going to Hell. That's the example Jesus set.

Don't you believe in eternal punishment in Hell?

Matthew 23:15 (NKJV)
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

 

[Buzzfruit]

Don't you believe in eternal punishment in Hell?

What I may or may not believe about Hell is not important. What is important is that the gospel means good news and that is what we should be telling people.

A person who obeys God because they fear punishment is not free......they are in bondage because they only obey God because they fear punishment. One can always tell a fearful person because they are constantly expressing there fears. But a spiritualy mature person is free because they are not motivated by the fear of punishment. Love is there motivation.

1 John 4:18 (BBE)
[sup]18 [/sup]There is no fear in love: true love has no room for fear, because where fear is, there is pain; and he who is not free from fear is not complete in love.

Matthew 23:15 (NKJV)
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Jesus' ministry lasted for three and a half years and if all you can show me is that only proves how little Jesus spent on talking about Hell.

 

[Duckybill]

What I may or may not believe about Hell is not important. What is important is that the gospel means good news and that is what we should be telling people.

Often those who deny the clear NT teaching of eternal punishment in the fire also deny Jesus/God. JW maybe?

A person who obeys God because they fear punishment is not free......they are in bondage because they only obey God because they fear punishment. One can always tell a fearful person because they are constantly expressing there fears. But a spiritualy mature person is free because they are not motivated by the fear of punishment. Love is there motivation.

Those who do not fear God are likely to end up in Hell.

1 John 4:18 (BBE)
[sup]18 [/sup]There is no fear in love: true love has no room for fear, because where fear is, there is pain; and he who is not free from fear is not complete in love.

Luke 12:5 (NKJV)
5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Jesus' ministry lasted for three and a half years and if all you can show me is that only proves how little Jesus spent on talking about Hell.

Never said that is all. Jesus said it's better to cut off body parts than to go to Hell forever.

Mark 9:43 (NKJV)
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall NEVER be quenched--

 

[Buzzfruit]

Often those who deny the clear NT teaching of eternal punishment in the fire also deny Jesus/God.JW maybe?

Why are you trying to make the issue about me? Are you that shallow? If a JW told you something that is good for your health are you going to reject it because the person is a JW? Or if you found out that Hitler ate his vegetables are you going to stop eating vegetables? My friend do not be blinded by your disagreement of what I am saying to cause you to reject what I have been saying. Study the life of Jesus for example, and see how often He mentioned Hell in comparison to the gospel of the kingdom. See how many times the Apostles spoke about Hell in comparison to all the other things they spoke about. Why spend so much time on that when the Bible is full of others things? Don't be hooked on death and destruction.......the gospel is good news...share that. People like to hear good news. Those like yourself make God out to be an angry God, who is just itching to punish.

Those who do not fear God are likely to end up in Hell.

How quick you are to condemn. Did not Jesus warn about doing that? That the same way you judge others it will be done to you.

Luke 12:5 (NKJV)

5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Mark 9:43 (NKJV)
43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall NEVER be quenched--

Whom was Jesus addressing? Wa s He talking to converted people or not? The people that Jesus was talking to fear men; they feared what the authorities could do to them. Jesus was simply putting things into perspective.....that if one is going to fear someone, then fear God. It does not mean that we are to be afraid of God. God has our best interest at heart......I am not afraid of God.....I love God. I have nothing to fear from God because my motives are good.....only people that do evil need to fear God. Jesus did not say anyone was going to be cause into Hell forever. The forever part is added by you.

But all those scriptures that you could post if you put them togther it would not even add up to a week and Jesus' ministry lasted for over three years.

 

[Duckybill]

Why are you trying to make the issue about me? Are you that shallow? If a JW told you something that is good for your health are you going to reject it because the person is a JW? Or if you found out that Hitler ate his vegetables are you going to stop eating vegetables? My friend do not be blinded by your disagreement of what I am saying to cause you to reject what I have been saying. Study the life of Jesus for example, and see how often He mentioned Hell in comparison to the gospel of the kingdom. See how many times the Apostles spoke about Hell in comparison to all the other things they spoke about. Why spend so much time on that when the Bible is full of others things? Don't be hooked on death and destruction.......the gospel is good news...share that. People like to hear good news. Those like yourself make God out to be an angry God, who is just itching to punish.

There is NOTHING more important than escaping eternity in Hell. Absolutely NOTHING!

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

What could be worse? Nothing.

How quick you are to condemn. Did not Jesus warn about doing that? That the same way you judge others it will be done to you.

The Bible condemns them, not me. They lack understanding/wisdom.

Job 28:28 (NKJV)
28 And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, And to depart from evil is understanding.' "

Whom was Jesus addressing? Wa s He talking to converted people or not? The people that Jesus was talking to fear men; they feared what the authorities could do to them. Jesus was simply putting things into perspective.....that if one is going to fear someone, then fear God. It does not mean that we are to be afraid of God. God has our best interest at heart......I am not afraid of God.....I love God. I have nothing to fear from God because my motives are good.....only people that do evil need to fear God. Jesus did not say anyone was going to be cause into Hell forever. The forever part is added by you.

Jesus was talking to ALL of us. Never means forever in this instance and is consistent with the NT teaching of eternal punishment in the fire.

Jude 1:5-7 (NKJV)
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

But all those scriptures that you could post if you put them togther it would not even add up to a week and Jesus' ministry lasted for over three years.

Anyone care to translate?

 

[jiggyfly]

[/size]





How quick you are to condemn. Did not Jesus warn about doing that? That the same way you judge others it will be done to you.



But all those scriptures that you could post if you put them togther it would not even add up to a week and Jesus' ministry lasted for over three years.

BuzzFruit don't take it personally, there are some very religious folk here.

Enjoying your posts, please continue, disregard the graceless posts,and use your ignore button

 

[Buzzfruit]

[/color]
There is NOTHING more important than escaping eternity in Hell. Absolutely NOTHING!

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

What could be worse? Nothing.

The Bible condemns them, not me. They lack understanding/wisdom.

Job 28:28 (NKJV)
28 And to man He said, 'Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, And to depart from evil is understanding.' "

Jesus was talking to ALL of us. Never means forever in this instance and is consistent with the NT teaching of eternal punishment in the fire.

Jude 1:5-7 (NKJV)
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Anyone care to translate?

Then you are blind.....you have no understanding of the gospel....to you it just about excaping Hell. Your mind is filled with fear and there is no room to the perfect love that cast out fear. You don't love God.....you are afraid of Him, like the little kid down the block that befriends the bully in his class just so that he won't pick on him.

BuzzFruit don't take it personally, there are some very religious folk here.

Enjoying your posts, please continue, disregard the graceless posts,and use your ignore button

No, I don't take it personaly......I just feel sorry for Duckybill. If he only knew how good it is to be free of fear.

 

[Duckybill]

Then you are blind.....you have no understanding of the gospel....to you it just about excaping Hell. Your mind is filled with fear and there is no room to the perfect love that cast out fear. You don't love God.....you are afraid of Him, like the little kid down the block that befriends the bully in his class just so that he won't pick on him.

Jesus was speaking to the 12 when He said:

Matthew 10:28 (NKJV)
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Was He trying to deceive them?

No, I don't take it personaly......I just feel sorry for Duckybill. If he only knew how good it is to be free of fear.

Everyone will soon learn the fear of God. For MANY it will be too late. Yes indeed, escaping Hell is the most important thing for me. And that means warning others like Jesus and the writers of the Bible did. We can't say we weren't warned.

 

[Duckybill]

The fear of God is one of the main doctrines in the Bible.

 

[Buzzfruit]

The fear of God is one of the main doctrines in the Bible.

Guess what? I am going to stop here.....I think I have said enough.

 

[jiggyfly]

The fear of God is one of the main doctrines in the Bible.

And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we live like Jesus here in this world. Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. 1John 4:17&18

 

[Duckybill]

Revelation 14:7 (NKJV)
7 saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."

 

[jiggyfly]

Revelation 14:7 (NKJV)
7 saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."

Just who is angel speaking to? You may not realize but context is very important.
If a born again believer fears God's judgement, John said it is because God's love hasn't been perfected or completed in them. When a believer fears God's judgement, it is indicative of a lack of trust in the redemptive works of Jesus.

 

[Duckybill]

Just who is angel speaking to? You may not realize but context is very important.
If a born again believer fears God's judgement, John said it is because God's love hasn't been perfected or completed in them. When a believer fears God's judgement, it is indicative of a lack of trust in the redemptive works of Jesus.

To the saints:

Ephesians 5:21 (NKJV)
21 submitting to one another in the fear of God.