Why did God have a "chosen people," if he was just going to extend salvation to everyone later anyways? What did the Jews do to deserve to be his "chosen people?" Why did only they receive the Abrahamic covenant and the law? Doesn't it seem strange that God would be so infatuated with one nation in particular?And why did Israel, in spite of supposedly being God's chosen people, get the short end of the stick so frequently and was conquered repeatedly by foreign empires? Sure, maybe they weren't upholding the law well enough, but their conquerors weren't even trying to uphold the law. Why was it supposed to be a good thing that they needed to uphold such a strict law in order to prosper (so strict that they were never able to do it to God's satisfaction), whereas other nations had long and prosperous reigns even though they worshipped other gods?
Why the fixation with Israel?
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verzanumi24
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(Lunar;54423)
Why did God have a "chosen people," if he was just going to extend salvation to everyone later anyways? What did the Jews do to deserve to be his "chosen people?" Why did only they receive the Abrahamic covenant and the law? Doesn't it seem strange that God would be so infatuated with one nation in particular?
God did not choose Israel because of Israel, He chose Israel because their forefathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who were obedient to Him. The Israelites were a shadow of the Church, who would be the true people of God.(Lunar;54423)
And why did Israel, in spite of supposedly being God's chosen people, get the short end of the stick so frequently and was conquered repeatedly by foreign empires? Sure, maybe they weren't upholding the law well enough, but their conquerors weren't even trying to uphold the law. Why was it supposed to be a good thing that they needed to uphold such a strict law in order to prosper (so strict that they were never able to do it to God's satisfaction), whereas other nations had long and prosperous reigns even though they worshipped other gods?
God told them that if they obeyed Him they would be blessed, but if they did not they would be cursed. It does not matter if other people were not obeying God; God did not make any covenant with the other nations, He made it with the Children of Israel and they agreed to that covenant. But it was not just about physical prosperity; it was also about being a light to the other nations about the true God...other nations worshiped false gods, so if the Israelites obeyed God, they would be more blessed than they were, and the nations would see that and would want the Israelite’s God to be their God.The nations in those days did not think in the same way as nations nations do today. unlike today, nations in those days attributed their blessings to the gods that they serve, rather than on their own inteligence and abilities. They had the right attitude but it was misguided.Besides for the above, God was also about to prove without a shadow of a doubt that no nations or individual can ever live up to God's standard on their own. God knew Israel would fail, because He said so....God knew they would fail even before they became a nation.
Why did God have a "chosen people," if he was just going to extend salvation to everyone later anyways? What did the Jews do to deserve to be his "chosen people?" Why did only they receive the Abrahamic covenant and the law? Doesn't it seem strange that God would be so infatuated with one nation in particular?
God did not choose Israel because of Israel, He chose Israel because their forefathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who were obedient to Him. The Israelites were a shadow of the Church, who would be the true people of God.(Lunar;54423)
And why did Israel, in spite of supposedly being God's chosen people, get the short end of the stick so frequently and was conquered repeatedly by foreign empires? Sure, maybe they weren't upholding the law well enough, but their conquerors weren't even trying to uphold the law. Why was it supposed to be a good thing that they needed to uphold such a strict law in order to prosper (so strict that they were never able to do it to God's satisfaction), whereas other nations had long and prosperous reigns even though they worshipped other gods?
God told them that if they obeyed Him they would be blessed, but if they did not they would be cursed. It does not matter if other people were not obeying God; God did not make any covenant with the other nations, He made it with the Children of Israel and they agreed to that covenant. But it was not just about physical prosperity; it was also about being a light to the other nations about the true God...other nations worshiped false gods, so if the Israelites obeyed God, they would be more blessed than they were, and the nations would see that and would want the Israelite’s God to be their God.The nations in those days did not think in the same way as nations nations do today. unlike today, nations in those days attributed their blessings to the gods that they serve, rather than on their own inteligence and abilities. They had the right attitude but it was misguided.Besides for the above, God was also about to prove without a shadow of a doubt that no nations or individual can ever live up to God's standard on their own. God knew Israel would fail, because He said so....God knew they would fail even before they became a nation.
tim_from_pa
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(Lunar;54423)
Why did God have a "chosen people," if he was just going to extend salvation to everyone later anyways? What did the Jews do to deserve to be his "chosen people?" Why did only they receive the Abrahamic covenant and the law? Doesn't it seem strange that God would be so infatuated with one nation in particular?And why did Israel, in spite of supposedly being God's chosen people, get the short end of the stick so frequently and was conquered repeatedly by foreign empires? Sure, maybe they weren't upholding the law well enough, but their conquerors weren't even trying to uphold the law. Why was it supposed to be a good thing that they needed to uphold such a strict law in order to prosper (so strict that they were never able to do it to God's satisfaction), whereas other nations had long and prosperous reigns even though they worshipped other gods?
In answer to your questions:1. Somebody has to do the job. The family of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are God's type of family and Kingdom as opposed to Satan's. From day one, the bible teaches the battle between Satan's Kingdom and God's Kingdom.2. As for the short end of the stick, they didn't. You make the same assumption that many apologetic Christians do: that the persecuted Jews are "God's chosen people". The Jews are mainly from the tribe of Judah.I'm British-Israel in my belief and unless you want to say that Britain, the Commonwealth, the United States and NW European countries gotten "the short end of the stick", then God indeed has kept His promises to Israel. In the end days the Israelites and the Jews will be rejoined to be one nation instead of two chosen people of God.Remember me next time you try to lump me in with all the other Christians because to think of us all the same is like claiming there is only one species of life. I find that skeptics pride themselves in being open-minded only to make this blanket type judgment and base their points in misinformation.
Why did God have a "chosen people," if he was just going to extend salvation to everyone later anyways? What did the Jews do to deserve to be his "chosen people?" Why did only they receive the Abrahamic covenant and the law? Doesn't it seem strange that God would be so infatuated with one nation in particular?And why did Israel, in spite of supposedly being God's chosen people, get the short end of the stick so frequently and was conquered repeatedly by foreign empires? Sure, maybe they weren't upholding the law well enough, but their conquerors weren't even trying to uphold the law. Why was it supposed to be a good thing that they needed to uphold such a strict law in order to prosper (so strict that they were never able to do it to God's satisfaction), whereas other nations had long and prosperous reigns even though they worshipped other gods?
In answer to your questions:1. Somebody has to do the job. The family of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are God's type of family and Kingdom as opposed to Satan's. From day one, the bible teaches the battle between Satan's Kingdom and God's Kingdom.2. As for the short end of the stick, they didn't. You make the same assumption that many apologetic Christians do: that the persecuted Jews are "God's chosen people". The Jews are mainly from the tribe of Judah.I'm British-Israel in my belief and unless you want to say that Britain, the Commonwealth, the United States and NW European countries gotten "the short end of the stick", then God indeed has kept His promises to Israel. In the end days the Israelites and the Jews will be rejoined to be one nation instead of two chosen people of God.Remember me next time you try to lump me in with all the other Christians because to think of us all the same is like claiming there is only one species of life. I find that skeptics pride themselves in being open-minded only to make this blanket type judgment and base their points in misinformation.
(tim_from_pa;55538)
1. Somebody has to do the job.
Do the job of what? Preaching the way of God? It's not like the Jews were at all successful in this nor were they even interested in it; he just sent down Christ to settle the matter several hundred years later.(tim_from_pa)
2. As for the short end of the stick, they didn't. You make the same assumption that many apologetic Christians do: that the persecuted Jews are "God's chosen people". The Jews are mainly from the tribe of Judah.
You can debate who the chosen people were, but clearly God saw fit to make a pact with Abraham and not with other peoples. It is this sort of special treatment that I am asking for an explanation for.(tim_from_pa)
I'm British-Israel in my belief and unless you want to say that Britain, the Commonwealth, the United States and NW European countries gotten "the short end of the stick", then God indeed has kept His promises to Israel. In the end days the Israelites and the Jews will be rejoined to be one nation instead of two chosen people of God.
I'm confused, you think that Britain, the US, and northwestern Europe are actually the Israel referred to by the bible, but that the country of Israel itself isn't?Well, the vast majority of the people in those countries aren't from Israel nor did they descend from Israel. Do you refer to them as Israelites simply because they are predominantly Christian countries? If so, how can you account for the poor quality of life in other countries that are predominantly Christian, like Mexico? And why is it that northwestern European countries seem to prosper even though they frequently violate the Bible's teachings, but the Jews were condemned to centuries of foreign domination over the most pedantic violations of the Jewish law?(tim_from_pa)
Remember me next time you try to lump me in with all the other Christians because to think of us all the same is like claiming there is only one species of life. I find that skeptics pride themselves in being open-minded only to make this blanket type judgment and base their points in misinformation.
I have no idea what you are talking about.You are a Christian living in the present day. My original post was about Jews living in ancient Israel. I wasn't "lumping you in" with anything, because I wasn't even talking about you.
1. Somebody has to do the job.
Do the job of what? Preaching the way of God? It's not like the Jews were at all successful in this nor were they even interested in it; he just sent down Christ to settle the matter several hundred years later.(tim_from_pa)
2. As for the short end of the stick, they didn't. You make the same assumption that many apologetic Christians do: that the persecuted Jews are "God's chosen people". The Jews are mainly from the tribe of Judah.
You can debate who the chosen people were, but clearly God saw fit to make a pact with Abraham and not with other peoples. It is this sort of special treatment that I am asking for an explanation for.(tim_from_pa)
I'm British-Israel in my belief and unless you want to say that Britain, the Commonwealth, the United States and NW European countries gotten "the short end of the stick", then God indeed has kept His promises to Israel. In the end days the Israelites and the Jews will be rejoined to be one nation instead of two chosen people of God.
I'm confused, you think that Britain, the US, and northwestern Europe are actually the Israel referred to by the bible, but that the country of Israel itself isn't?Well, the vast majority of the people in those countries aren't from Israel nor did they descend from Israel. Do you refer to them as Israelites simply because they are predominantly Christian countries? If so, how can you account for the poor quality of life in other countries that are predominantly Christian, like Mexico? And why is it that northwestern European countries seem to prosper even though they frequently violate the Bible's teachings, but the Jews were condemned to centuries of foreign domination over the most pedantic violations of the Jewish law?(tim_from_pa)
Remember me next time you try to lump me in with all the other Christians because to think of us all the same is like claiming there is only one species of life. I find that skeptics pride themselves in being open-minded only to make this blanket type judgment and base their points in misinformation.
I have no idea what you are talking about.You are a Christian living in the present day. My original post was about Jews living in ancient Israel. I wasn't "lumping you in" with anything, because I wasn't even talking about you.
tim_from_pa
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- Jul 11, 2007
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I'm confused, you think that Britain, the US, and northwestern Europe are actually the Israel referred to by the bible, but that the country of Israel itself isn't?Well, the vast majority of the people in those countries aren't from Israel nor did they descend from Israel. Do you refer to them as Israelites simply because they are predominantly Christian countries? If so, how can you account for the poor quality of life in other countries that are predominantly Christian, like Mexico? And why is it that northwestern European countries seem to prosper even though they frequently violate the Bible's teachings, but the Jews were condemned to centuries of foreign domination over the most pedantic violations of the Jewish law?
Yes, I am saying they are Israelites and if one could do a genealogy long enough they could trace back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jews are predominately only the Judaic branch of Jacob's family.The marvelous promises you talk about were not meant to be fulfilled in the Jew, but to the Israelites, namely the tribe of Joseph which was the predominant tribe of the ten tribes to the North and bore the name "Israel". However, they never returned to the land after the Babylonian captivity as the Jew did. They settled and migrated elsewhere to which the bible prophesied these people would be known as "not my people" and adopt another name---- and religion for that matter. So yes, these same flesh and blood people did indeed become predominately the Christian nations in MW Europe and the US.Not all Christian nations like Mexico are from Israel, and indeed much of what is called Christianity is also based in Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy. Britain on the other hand got the gospel straight from the apostles; it was later we hear about the saints of the Catholic church sending missionaries to an already Christian nation. This is why historically they tended to separate from Rome.
Yes, I am saying they are Israelites and if one could do a genealogy long enough they could trace back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jews are predominately only the Judaic branch of Jacob's family.The marvelous promises you talk about were not meant to be fulfilled in the Jew, but to the Israelites, namely the tribe of Joseph which was the predominant tribe of the ten tribes to the North and bore the name "Israel". However, they never returned to the land after the Babylonian captivity as the Jew did. They settled and migrated elsewhere to which the bible prophesied these people would be known as "not my people" and adopt another name---- and religion for that matter. So yes, these same flesh and blood people did indeed become predominately the Christian nations in MW Europe and the US.Not all Christian nations like Mexico are from Israel, and indeed much of what is called Christianity is also based in Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy. Britain on the other hand got the gospel straight from the apostles; it was later we hear about the saints of the Catholic church sending missionaries to an already Christian nation. This is why historically they tended to separate from Rome.
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