Wine at the Baptist Church

[rockytopva]

After several pastor changes at my local church I have been visiting other churches trying to catch the 8AM, 10AM, and 6PM services. In the past few months I have been to three churches affiliated with the Baptist Church. As many churches as I visit these days I find them all unique. There are two main figures in a church...

1. The Senior Pastor - The leader of the church
2. The Worship Leader - The music director

The Senior Pastor being the most important. With the Baptist Churches I visit I find them all unique. Some more traditional, others more contemporary. All defined by the Senior Pastor and the Worship Leader. I can recommend no church without first getting to know the Senior Pastor. I enjoy the teachings of John Vernon McGee who was a ordained Presbyterian minister. But... If I visit the local Presbyterian church I find a woman pastor and a sign that says we are LGBT friendly. So the difference in leadership is like night and day... All within the same denomination.

I visited the 8AM service of a local church affiliated with the Baptist Church but not having "Baptist" on the shingle. The service was very much traditional, almost like it was hundreds of years ago. The preacher preached a message on his trip to California and all the vineyards. A very detailed message on the wine production there. Following the message they had communion in which the bread was a rather large wafer and the wine in a rather large cup (for communion anyway). After drinking the wine my thoughts were... My gosh! That was the best wine I have ever drunk!

I enjoyed the service and will probably go back.

 

[Randy Kluth]

After several pastor changes at my local church I have been visiting other churches trying to catch the 8AM, 10AM, and 6PM services. In the past few months I have been to three churches affiliated with the Baptist Church. As many churches as I visit these days I find them all unique. There are two main figures in a church...

1. The Senior Pastor - The leader of the church
2. The Worship Leader - The music director

The Senior Pastor being the most important. With the Baptist Churches I visit I find them all unique. Some more traditional, others more contemporary. All defined by the Senior Pastor and the Worship Leader. I can recommend no church without first getting to know the Senior Pastor. I enjoy the teachings of John Vernon McGee who was a ordained Presbyterian minister. But... If I visit the local Presbyterian church I find a woman pastor and a sign that says we are LGBT friendly. So the difference in leadership is like night and day... All within the same denomination.

I visited the 8AM service of a local church affiliated with the Baptist Church but not having "Baptist" on the shingle. The service was very much traditional, almost like it was hundreds of years ago. The preacher preached a message on his trip to California and all the vineyards. A very detailed message on the wine production there. Following the message they had communion in which the bread was a rather large wafer and the wine in a rather large cup (for communion anyway). After drinking the wine my thoughts were... My gosh! That was the best wine I have ever drunk!

I enjoyed the service and will probably go back.

Things are different here in the 21st century, as opposed to how it was in the Early Church. Over time a number of issues have evolved, as Christianity has weakened in some areas and have reformed in other areas.

When looking for a church I think it is well to figure out how you fit in. A weak church may be open to your help to improve, or it may be hardened and resistant to positive change. A strong church my be what you need spiritually or to cater to your kind of ministry.

Generally, a denomination that is going downhill is not something I care to be part of. There has to be hope for positive change, and I don't want to be associated with those who are resistant to change.

I personally wish to support churches that suffer some weakness. Why give up on those who need help the most? But I've also enjoyed big churches where the outreach by capable leaders has been unbelievable. It's fun to be part of that.

We should go where we feel useful, and not necessarily where we have the most "fun." But in our ministering we also need to be "ministered to!" So there is that...

 

[rockytopva]

Things are different here in the 21st century, as opposed to how it was in the Early Church. Over time a number of issues have evolved, as Christianity has weakened in some areas and have reformed in other areas.

When looking for a church I think it is well to figure out how you fit in. A weak church may be open to your help to improve, or it may be hardened and resistant to positive change. A strong church my be what you need spiritually or to cater to your kind of ministry.

Generally, a denomination that is going downhill is not something I care to be part of. There has to be hope for positive change, and I don't want to be associated with those who are resistant to change.

I personally wish to support churches that suffer some weakness. Why give up on those who need help the most? But I've also enjoyed big churches where the outreach by capable leaders has been unbelievable. It's fun to be part of that.

We should go where we feel useful, and not necessarily where we have the most "fun." But in our ministering we also need to be "ministered to!" So there is that...

Now, behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt, on which if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt unto all that trust on him. - 2 Kings 18:21

Right now I have been just visiting. It is a bad feeling to feel that putting trust in a church these days is like leaning on a bruised reed, on which if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it.

Post Covid I find it hard to find a church I can put confidence in these days.

 

[ScottA]

We just changed churches about 6 months ago, and like the Pastor's approach and teaching. Yet their affiliation while being a bit liberal asks people to sign into membership agreeing with things that I know not to be biblically sound. We had that discussion with the Pastor and are continuing to go, but not join or sign their agreement.

Our change all came as a result of the last church we attended for a couple of years, where the Senior Pastor announced something from the pulpit that I called him on. The whole thing blew up and became a standoff of their seminary training and my biblical knowledge, after which they laid down the law in a way of telling us to leave.

Since starting to go to church back in 1996 (after my salvation and then reading the Bible over and over from cover to cover in private self-study for 10 years), I have found most to be fulfilling the believing of a "lie" spoken of by Paul, and according to the prophecy of Peter that "false teachers" would enter into the church with "destructive doctrines." I have continued to go (mostly for my wife), but with the idea that truth from God would prevail.

It hasn't changed yet. But...as it is written--it is coming, for this too has been foretold.

 

[rockytopva]

While I have been going to many church services... I have not the confidence to join as a member of any church.

 

[O'Darby]

I attended my wife's Baptist church in Minsk, Belarus, where being a Baptist is no safe or easy thing. I felt like I was in a real church for the first time. The formality (in dress, music and service), the dignity, the solemnity, the seriousness and the deep sense of genuine worship were unlike anything I'd ever experienced.

Before she came to America, my wife's pastor (who had been here) discouraged her and warned her she was in for a rude awakening. After our first visit to the local Southern Baptist church, she was in a state of shock. (I remember her very first words when we sat down: "What on earth is an American flag doing next to the pastor?" Hmmm - what the heck was it doing there?)

We tried a few more Southern Baptist and Baptist churches, then ended the experiment. Now we go for a Sunday hike at a nearly deserted state park - way more spiritual.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Now, behold, thou trustest upon the staff of this bruised reed, even upon Egypt, on which if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it: so is Pharaoh king of Egypt unto all that trust on him. - 2 Kings 18:21

Right now I have been just visiting. It is a bad feeling to feel that putting trust in a church these days is like leaning on a bruised reed, on which if a man lean, it will go into his hand, and pierce it.

Post Covid I find it hard to find a church I can put confidence in these days.

I agree, but Jesus holds on wherever there's a glimmer of hope. That may not be for you, but only for some...

Matt 12.20 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he has brought justice through to victory.

Heb 12.7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.

Rev 3.8 See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.... 11 ...Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

On the other hand we don't want to be one of those "good works" Christians who want to take on a "project," glorying in the fact we "accept" gay people and drug addicts, as well as criminals, who have no desire whatsoever to repent. And yet they will take full advantage of gullible Christians who want to look compassionate and unconditionally loving.

It is an insult to God to cover up the deeds of evil people by pouring our love and affection on them, showing the world how stupid we are and how indifferent we are to justice being done. Indeed, let us *not* put our confidence in the wisdom of the world!

(sorry, rocky, I hadn't finished editing! You "liked" before I finished, but I hope you still "like it!")

 

[rockytopva]

So many "fly by night" churches these days. We have what I would call a charismatic Baptist church that turned an abandoned school into a huge church. They draw probably a thousand people. I have been visiting. The senior pastor though is from South Carolina. He has a wonderful personality and I believe he church will do good while he is senior pastor. If he ever gets homesick though, and leaves the leadership to the younger guys, I would worry about the future of the church.

 

[rockytopva]

As far as communion I understand....

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. - 1 Corinthians 11

And if someone were to criticize me for enjoying the wine I would have to agree... But... The wine was really good! Tasting like the best California had to offer!

 

[Behold]

"What on earth is an American flag doing next to the pastor?" Hmmm - what the heck was it doing there?)

In my Messianic Church Home... in Netanya, Israel

The Service is like this..

We do a lot of praise and worship.
We dont use backing tracks, we only use live instruments and voices.

We have announcements and there is a "prayer for the sick" time, also that also occurs at the beginning of the service.

We do have some Israeli Flags in the sanctuary, , numerous Shofar's, .....2 or 3 Golden Ark of the Covenant's,.... at least one full size Ephod, and a Huge Golden Torah that is rolled out and read..., as well as various versions of the English NT and Hebrew NT that are in the pews, Pulpit, and on the stage, etc.

Also, people who can't speak Hebrew but want to go to the "Main" Hebrew morning service, (usually these are Christian Tourists).. wear available wi-fi headphones that are located on all the pews... and they hear a translator translating the service.
And, during the Main service...we have more than one give a pastoral message to the congregation, vs, just the usual 1.

Services are about 2+ hrs and about half way in, we all take a break and some stay in the sanctuary and some go into the fellowship hall and are offered some milk or coffee or both.... and you are offered some apples and honey also. The Apples and honey are also offered to anyone in the sanctuary, at this time.
The apples are all cut into small squares or halves and you get what you want. (We dont make you peel them...).
The warm golden honey is in small clear container(s) that pour it out.

Once The fellowship time ends ... the congregation all go back to the Main sanctuary to hear more preaching, or maybe some worship, or maybe just some Bible reading.
Sometimes its all of this, or it can be that its all just praise and worship right until the end of the service.

We try to keep the Lord's time with His Saints very FREE, so that you can feel at Home, as that's what it is, actually.
It a place where God's redeemed can come together, relax, worship, learn, ... and it feels like home, and we can all enjoy the Lord as a family., together as one.

Here is my Shofar
-