You Are Not You

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Netchaplain

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A lady traveling alone on a cruise ship became very concerned about the stormy waters they were encountering on the sea. It was an older vessel and was taking quite a beating, so she hurriedly went to the Captain’s helm, found the Captain and asked him what are we going to do? He calmly said, do you see that boiler smoking full steam? She said yes. Then he said if that blows we’ll go up! Then he asked her, do you see the plank in the port side that is flapping in the wind? She said yes. Then he said, if that fails we’ll go down. But until either one may happen, “we are going through!”

We should know by now that the believing Christians are always, no matter how they are taking it, are always brought through every single trial, until the difficulty has let up, and all again is well! Some trials seem extensive but all are resolved eventually to the satisfaction of their understanding.

One great spiritual growth truth revealed and taught by Paul is that Christians are sanctified, completely separated from their “old man” (also known as “the flesh” i.e. sin nature from Adam - Rom 5:19). God no longer holds believers accountable to the curse and death of sin which extends to unbelievers.

God sees believers only in the light of His Son, and never again in the darkness of their sin, for they “are not in the flesh” (sanctified and thus no longer part of the sin nature but completely and permanently separated from it - Rom 8:9). This is one of the primary fundamentals of spiritual growth concerning our maturity in Christ’s image (Eph 4:15).

“Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.” (Rom 17, 20). What a sobering passage, which reveals to us that God continually sees us, the new “I,” which does not desire to ever sin. He never will again consider us after the old “I,” the sin nature that is still sinning! Here Paul is teaching us that we have two natures abiding within us simultaneously; and that the one ever desires to please God (He ensures this via Phl 2:13), and the other is still attempting to live its own desires.

Praised be God, that you will never again be your old man, but will ever be the “new man”; “which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him” (Col 3:10). Notice this is a nature that was “created,” and in it we do not sin, because we won’t want to sin; it being a nature “after God” (Eph 4:24). God makes our heart’s desire to ”please Him,” and this is where He wants us, only wanting to do that which pleases Him, regardless of the sin He knows we will do (the mature Christian does not sin “willfully” (Heb 10:26). The Lord Jesus said, “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also” (Mat 6:21).

In this God is magnificently glorified—sanctifying believers from the Adam-nature, while at the same time removing sins permanently and in spite of the sin from the believer. This brings us to another spiritual growth truth—we are always and continuously “forgiven” of God (1Jn 1:9) when we admit (“confess”) we are wrong when we sin; meaning there is never a time when we are not forgiven! It’s not like God has to repeatedly forgive us. In the Lord’s Prayer (which is to the Jew and not the Christian) He said if we don’t forgive sins (wrongs) against us the Father will not forgive sins against Him (Mat 6:15; 18:35). With the Christian, there will always be forgiveness to others because of the new nature, which the Spirit uses to imbibe our soul to conviction, if need be, until the forgiveness comes.

May we draw close to God so that He can draw close to us (Jas 4:8).
NC
 
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Randy Kluth

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A lady traveling alone on a cruise ship became very concerned about the stormy waters they were encountering on the sea. It was an older vessel and was taking quite a beating, so she hurriedly went to the Captain’s helm, found the Captain and asked him what are we going to do? He calmly said, do you see that boiler smoking full steam? She said yes. Then he said if that blows we’ll go up! Then he asked her, do you see the plank in the port side that is flapping in the wind? She said yes. Then he said, if that fails we’ll go down. But until either one may happen, “we are going through!”

We should know by now that the believing Christians are always, no matter how they are taking it, are always brought through every single trial, until the difficulty has let up, and all again is well! Some trials seem extensive but all are resolved eventually to the satisfaction of their understanding.

One great spiritual growth truth revealed and taught by Paul is that Christians are sanctified, completely separated from their “old man” (also known as “the flesh” i.e. sin nature from Adam - Rom 5:19). God no longer holds believers accountable to the curse and death of sin which extends to unbelievers.

God sees believers only in the light of His Son, and never again in the darkness of their sin, for they “are not in the flesh” (sanctified and thus no longer part of the sin nature but completely and permanently separated from it - Rom 8:9). This is one of the primary fundamentals of spiritual growth concerning our maturity in Christ’s image (Eph 4:15).

“Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.” (Rom 17, 20). What a sobering passage, which reveals to us that God continually sees us, the new “I,” which does not desire to ever sin. He never will again consider us after the old “I,” the sin nature that is still sinning! Here Paul is teaching us that we have two natures abiding within us simultaneously; and that the one ever desires to please God (He ensures this via Phl 2:13), and the other is still attempting to live its own desires.

Praised be God, that you will never again be your old man, but will ever be the “new man”; “which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him” (Col 3:10). Notice this is a nature that was “created,” and in it we do not sin, because we won’t want to sin; it being a nature “after God” (Eph 4:24). God makes our heart’s desire to ”please Him,” and this is where He wants us, only wanting to do that which pleases Him, regardless of the sin He knows we will do (the mature Christian does not sin “willfully” (Heb 10:26). The Lord Jesus said, “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also” (Mat 6:21).

In this God is magnificently glorified—sanctifying believers from the Adam-nature, while at the same time removing sins permanently and in spite of the sin from the believer. This brings us to another spiritual growth truth—we are always and continuously “forgiven” of God (1Jn 1:9) when we admit (“confess”) we are wrong when we sin; meaning there is never a time when we are not forgiven! It’s not like God has to repeatedly forgive us. In the Lord’s Prayer (which is to the Jew and not the Christian) He said if we don’t forgive sins (wrongs) against us the Father will not forgive sins against Him (Mat 6:15; 18:35). With the Christian, there will always be forgiveness to others because of the new nature, which the Spirit uses to imbibe our soul to conviction, if need be, until the forgiveness comes.

May we draw close to God so that He can draw close to us (Jas 4:8).
NC
Theologically, this is true with respect to our inheritance of Eternal Life. However, with respect to the Here and Now, it is not true. God is not blind to our wrong-doing, and treats us according to our need. That includes disciplining us when some things in our fallen nature lead us astray.

God certainly forgives us, but He certainly does continue to see our fallen nature, and works to assure us that our need is to overcome the fallen nature, to obey the righteousness of Christ. We can be assured that we have Eternal Life right now. We can be assured that we will be forgiven for every sin, assuming we've truly chosen Christ as our Savior. However, this does not obliviate God's need to see the things He needs to do with us in order to encourage our holiness.

Forgiveness may be real, and still we can reap what we sow. Paying a price for our sins has nothing to do with Eternal Redemption if we are only dealing with our Sin Nature and not with matters of faith in Christ for Eternal Life. We may have Eternal Life, and we may have forgiveness for anything now, past and future. But we still need to apologize for ongoing sins, because God truly does see them, people truly are hurt by them, and we truly need to deal with them each time they appear.
 

Netchaplain

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Theologically, this is true with respect to our inheritance of Eternal Life. However, with respect to the Here and Now, it is not true. God is not blind to our wrong-doing, and treats us according to our need. That includes disciplining us when some things in our fallen nature lead us astray.

God certainly forgives us, but He certainly does continue to see our fallen nature, and works to assure us that our need is to overcome the fallen nature
Hi, and always appreciate your replies! Though God sees our sin nature and our sins, and knows the future sins which He already takes into account, He doesn't think on them, nor regards them anymore, because He keeps us in His forgiveness. He already knows all the wrongs we will do, but has already forgiven us of them; He ensures we will continue to work to please Him (Phl 2:13).

This "work" of God in us is sure and permanent, thus those who discontinue to live for God have yet to be worked in by God; because they are yet to be saved. Can hope their name is in the Book of Life!
 

Randy Kluth

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Hi, and always appreciate your replies! Though God sees our sin nature and our sins, and knows the future sins which He already takes into account, He doesn't think on them, nor regards them anymore, because He keeps us in His forgiveness. He already knows all the wrongs we will do, but has already forgiven us of them; He ensures we will continue to work to please Him (Phl 2:13).

This "work" of God in us is sure and permanent, thus those who discontinue to live for God have yet to be worked in by God; because they are yet to be saved. Can hope their name is in the Book of Life!
I agree with you that the work of God is sure and permanent. I was only disagreeing with you on your apparent belief that God can "no longer see our sins." You obviously do not believe that. So I can only assume that you mean that *with respect to Salvation* God no longer recognizes our sins as an impediment to our future salvation?

My point is that we cannot be saved and then sin, claiming God no longer sees our sins. That is only true with respect to our Salvation. For the present, God disciplines us so that we may share in His holiness. I feel confident you will agree?

I respect you too, brother. Please remember that in any of my comments. You're one of the more respected brothers here because of your emphasis on discipleship. Some let the focus on Jesus himself get lost in their debates over theology, right? ;)
 

Netchaplain

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I agree with you that the work of God is sure and permanent. I was only disagreeing with you on your apparent belief that God can "no longer see our sins." You obviously do not believe that. So I can only assume that you mean that *with respect to Salvation* God no longer recognizes our sins as an impediment to our future salvation?
Correct my Brother!
My point is that we cannot be saved and then sin, claiming God no longer sees our sins.
One who is truly saved will not desire to sin because of Phl 2:13.
That is only true with respect to our Salvation. For the present, God disciplines us so that we may share in His holiness. I feel confident you will agree?
"For whom the Lord loveth he chastens" (Hebrews 12:6). We are never in trouble with God, nor do we displease Him. He knows many are immature and takes the time to mature them.

I respect you too, brother. Please remember that in any of my comments. You're one of the more respected brothers here because of your emphasis on discipleship. Some let the focus on Jesus himself get lost in their debates over theology, right? ;)
Same here, we've been sharing for quite a while now and I have yet to see anything from you disrespectful. Thanks for the encouraging comment.
 

Randy Kluth

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Correct my Brother!

One who is truly saved will not desire to sin because of Phl 2:13.

"For whom the Lord loveth he chastens" (Hebrews 12:6). We are never in trouble with God, nor do we displease Him. He knows many are immature and takes the time to mature them.


Same here, we've been sharing for quite a while now and I have yet to see anything from you disrespectful. Thanks for the encouraging comment.
I do have my days, brother! ;) I want to encourage brothers like you because you are a model for others. It's more than doctrine--it's how you live. And you do it well! Take care...
 

Netchaplain

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I do have my days, brother! ;) I want to encourage brothers like you because you are a model for others. It's more than doctrine--it's how you live. And you do it well! Take care...
Yes, how we live is the main theme, because it's how well we will be used to draw the lost!