1.You became an atheist when you were 10 years old, based on ideas of G-d that you learned in Sunday School. Your ideas about G-d haven't changed since. 2.You think that the primary aim of an omnibenevolent G-d is for people to have FUN. 3.You believe that extra drippy ice-cream is a logical proof against the existence of G-d, because an omniscient G-d would know how to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, an omnipotent G-d would have the ability to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, and by golly, an omnibenevolent G-d wouldn't want your ice-cream to be extra drippy. 4.Although you've memorized a half a dozen proofs that He doesn't exist, you still think you're G-d's gift to the ignorant Christian masses. 5.You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves G-d, as if G-d needed a tiny universe in order to exist. 6.You think questions like, "Can G-d create a rock so big that He cannot lift it?" and, "Can G-d will Himself out of existence?" are perfect examples of how to disprove G-d's omnipotence and ultimately how to disprove G-d. When someone proves to you the false logic behind the questions (i.e. pitting G-d's omnipotence against itself), you desperately try to defend the questions, but then give up and go to a different Christian site to ask them. 7.Related to the above, you spend a great deal of your spare time writing to Christian websites asking them these very questions. 8.You declare on a public forum that you are "furious at G-d for not existing." 9.You spend hours arguing that a-theism actually means "without a belief in G-d " and not just " belief that there is no god" as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life. 10.You consistently deny the existence of G-d because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced G-d as a reality in their lives. 11.You can make the existence of pink unicorns the center-piece of a philosophical critique. 12.You insist that "the burden of proof is on he that alleges/accuses", and "it's impossible to prove a negative", then state "That's what Christians do. They lie. Their most common lie is that they were once atheists." When reminded about the burden of proof bit, you reply with, "Well, prove Christians don't lie!" 13.You adamantly believe that the "G-d of the gaps" idea is an essential tenet of orthodox Christian faith espoused by all the great Christian thinkers throughout history. 14.When you were a child, someone came down with a deadly disease and prayed and prayed for G-d to take it away. G-d did not remove the disease and your friend died. You ask other Christians why they had to die when they were such a nice person and never harmed anyone. Dissatisfied with their answers, you suddenly decide that there is no G-d and that all Christians are nothing but lying, conniving con artists and hypocrites....all that is except for your friend who died. 15.You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense". 16.You're a spoiled fourteen year old boy who lives in the suburbs and you go into a chat room to declare that, "I know there is no G-d because no loving G-d would allow anyone to suffer as much as I...hold on. My cell phone's ringing." 17.You attack your fellow atheists, who hold the "belief that there is no god", calling them "liars," and state that, "I do not deny the existence of any god. I just don't believe in any." Then you tell someone that their G-d is "made up." When someone calls you on this, you state, "I never made such a claim." 18.Going with the definition of "without a belief in G-d", you insist that all people are born atheists, and that dogs, cats, rocks, and trees are as well. You make statements like, "My dog is an atheist. Ask him about his lack of belief." 19.You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded". 20.You say that there is no G-d and that those who believe in G-d do so in blind faith, yet your claim that there is no G-d also rests on blind faith. 21.While you don't believe in G-d, you feel justified on bashing G-d or attacking those who believe in something that you KNOW doesn't exist, fighting against or even discussing about a non-existent being are the symptoms of mental illness! 22.You complain when Christians appeal to their emotions when justifying their belief in G-d yet you feel justified on appealing to your emotions for lack of belief in G-d. 23.You blame God for the starvation, sickness, pain and suffering in the world...when, indeed, it is MAN's greed, politics, selfishness and apathy that not only causes, but also ignores the sick and the starving masses. We aren't our brothers' keepers....but we should be.
You may be a fundy atheist if...
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24.You believe that planes, computers, calculators, compasses, etc, were "all obviously designed," yet the human body, being intricately more complex was "obviously a product of biological evolution." It seems the more complex the apparatus, the more obvious the "fact" that it was not designed. 25.You claim that evolution and the big bang are two entirely separate theories that explain different aspects of the universe, yet, in what school of learning can you find any real separation or distinction between the two? 26.As a member of the Skeptic's Society you pride yourself on being skeptical of extraordinary claims. You also pride yourself on silencing everyone who is skeptical of the extraordinary claims of evolution. 27.Isaac Newton does not count as an example of a great scientist who believed in the Bible since he died before the Origin of Species was published. 28.When you watch a punt returner run a 93 yard touchdown, you marvel at what evolution has done for the human race. But when someone gets cancer, you blame G-d for it. 29.When you're discussing the origin of the world, the phrase "uncaused cause(G-d)" is a stupid, meaningless thing to say. You will, however, settle for "uncaused effect(the world without G-d)". 30.You descended from apes.(Think about it.) 31.You think that humans are products of chance but when it comes to human reason we can believe in logic! (Think about it !) 32.You think you arrived at your position because you are a free-thinker who rationally weighed the evidence, and then freely chose atheism over theism. YET, you also believe that your thinking and actions are nothing more than the FIXED reactions of the atoms in your brain that are governed by the Laws of Chemistry and Physics. 33.You love to castigate Christians for being "anti-science" if they deny evolution from goo to you via the zoo, and to preach that they should adapt their thinking to the "science" of our day. But you also castigate the Church of 400 years ago for being anti-science, when it DID adapt its thinking to the science of ITS day, i.e. Ptolemaic cosmology, then joined with the Aristotelian scientists of the universities in rejecting Galileo! 34.You think that some guy named "Dr Dino" with no scientific credentials represents mainstream Evangelical thinking and scholarship about evolution and creation, and thus by spending inordinate amounts of time attacking him you are somehow dismantling the arguments of scholarly dissenters from evolution, creationists with earned Ph. D.s in science, and of advocates of intelligent design. 35.You claim poker-faced that "social Darwinism" and its spawn of eugenics have absolutely no connection to the biological theories propounded by Charles Darwin in "On The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or The Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life" 36.You have recently stuck a Darwin fish on your car in the hopes the people with the Jesus fish on theirs will be offended. 37.You also claim that not only is there no connection between Darwin's theories and the doctrines of social Darwinism and eugenics (despite the fact that the term eugenics was coined and advocated by Darwin's cousin Francis Galton, who acknowledged his debt to Origin), but that none of these philosophical positions have any connection to the modern fields of sociobiology and evolutionary psychology. 38.You can claim with as straight face on sites like Talk Origins that "Evolution does not have moral consequences" despite the fact that prominent evolutionary advocates like Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett vehemently assert that evolution does transcend biology in a way that has a profound effects upon ethics. 39.When the Pope says that G-d may have used evolution, he is an enlightened religious leader whom Christians should listen to. When the Pope preaches on the sanctity of human life from conception, and thus denounces abortion, he's just a senile religious bigot who should keep his opinions to himself. 40.Concerning the origins of life, you feel that though the chances of life forming without an intelligent creator are small it DID indeed happen that way. And yet you don't believe me when a rock, coming from my direction, hits you in the back of the head and I tell you, "I didn't throw it. There was a sudden shift in the earth's gravitational pull and the rock levitated into your head...Sure the chances are small but it DID happen that way." 41.When you're shown that your view of origins is silly, you can only respond, "Well...at least it's better than believing in some invisible SKY DADDY!" 42.When a Christian points out the impossibility of a biological system (or feature) forming by pure chance you accuse them of invoking a "G-d of the gaps". YET, when you are asked how a particular feature could come about solely by chance you invoke "Evolution of the gaps" (i.e., we don't know HOW but we do know that Evolution MUST have done it!) 43.You claim antibiotic-resistant bacteria is proof protozoa evolved into a person. 44.You insist that science is completely partial to all ideas, is not dogmatic and researches all possibilities -- except creationism and/or intelligent design. 45.You claim Creationists don't research on evolution websites before debating against it. Luckily you caught this useful weapon against Christians at the evolution site you learned all about creation doctrine from. 46.You think that every scientist who believes in Creationism and doesn't mindlessly accept evolution as a fact is a "kook," but you believe that Francis Crick (Nobel Prize winning co-discoverer of DNA), who reached into his nether regions and pulled out the "theory" of Directed Panspermia (which states with absolutely no support that aliens seeded the earth with life - see the movie "Mission to Mars"), is a great evolutionist scientist. 47.When a creationist points out problems with the evolutionist model you claim that the whole point of science is to answer problems like these. But if you can point out even one problem in the creationist model it should instantly be abandoned as absurd. 48.You are a person who absolutely believes that life came from nonlife, yet absolutely deny the possibility of anyone rising from the dead. 49.You won't bet $10 on the football game because a 50/50 chance isn't good enough, but you have no problem gambling with your life on the nearly impossible odds of a cell randomly generating from nothing. 50.Engaging the "slippery slope" fallacy, you think you can invalidate the whole bible by discrediting Genesis, since 'the whole bible either stands together or falls apart'. However, when a Creationist tries to invalidate the whole doctrine of naturalistic evolution by exposing the sheer improbability and lack of evidence of abiogenesis, you note this point as 'irrelevant'. 51.You think the movie "Inherit the Wind" best describes the eternal struggle of how an evolutionist is being treated by creationists in this religious society. And you can personally relate your life to the Scopes Monkey Trial. 52.You ignore "Time Magazine's" poll, which states that only 28% of Americans believe in evolution. But of course, "Time Magazine" must been run by creationists. 53.You teach a belief only held by 28% of a nation, as truth beyond any shadow of a doubt because only educated people believe in evolution. Yet of course, you ignore that fully educated scientists in most other nations have proven against Darwinian theory. Like the Chinese paleontologist who reportedly says: "In China we can criticize Darwin but not the government. In America you can criticize the government but not Darwin." 54.You think man evolved from monkeys but get mad when somebody calls you one. 55.You think that if schools teach the Intelligent Design theory of creation,they should also teach the "stork theory" of where babies come from. 56.You demand that Christians study advanced evolutionary biology before making claims about natural selection. You then claim that their theological ideas, which you have never examined before, are pure nonsense. 57.On the other hand, you demand that Christians who have NOT studied evolutionary biology ought to go ahead and publicly commit to arguments about it, because you want to trap or embarrass them with your own knowledge of the subject, which is limited to quoting Gould and Futuyama. 58.You claim that the 'G-d' mentioned by Albert Einstein and Steven Hawkings is nature and that they were atheists, then claim that you have no religion, which is defined by the dictionary as "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe."
Pathetic.
2.You think that the primary aim of an omnibenevolent G-d is for people to have FUN.
An omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent god would know how to teach his creations lessons without hurting them.
3.You believe that extra drippy ice-cream is a logical proof against the existence of G-d, because an omniscient G-d would know how to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, an omnipotent G-d would have the ability to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, and by golly, an omnibenevolent G-d wouldn't want your ice-cream to be extra drippy.
You're retarded.
5.You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves G-d, as if G-d needed a tiny universe in order to exist.
Good job. You've shown complete ignorance of the point of the anthropic principle. It does not prove god does not exist. It proves that he is unnecessary.
9.You spend hours arguing that a-theism actually means "without a belief in G-d " and not just " belief that there is no god" as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.
It may not be a meaningful distinction in real life, but it is a meaningful distinction for the purposes of an argument.
10.You consistently deny the existence of G-d because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced G-d as a reality in their lives.
Just as you likely reject the claims of people who say they have been abducted and experimented on by aliens or people who claim to hear voices telling them to kill people.
12.You insist that "the burden of proof is on he that alleges/accuses", and "it's impossible to prove a negative", then state "That's what Christians do. They lie. Their most common lie is that they were once atheists." When reminded about the burden of proof bit, you reply with, "Well, prove Christians don't lie!"
The burden of proof does lie with theists. I've never heard the latter half of that point used, though.
15.You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense".
Ahh..the appeal to majority fallacy.
19.You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded".
Wrong. We hold that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, we have no evidence for its existence and so it would be silly to assume that it does. We are aware that this does not prove it does not exist.
23.You blame God for the starvation, sickness, pain and suffering in the world...when, indeed, it is MAN's greed, politics, selfishness and apathy that not only causes, but also ignores the sick and the starving masses. We aren't our brothers' keepers....but we should be.
My argument on the other thread proves that starvation, sickness, pain and suffering occur because god wanted them to.
2.You think that the primary aim of an omnibenevolent G-d is for people to have FUN.
An omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent god would know how to teach his creations lessons without hurting them.
3.You believe that extra drippy ice-cream is a logical proof against the existence of G-d, because an omniscient G-d would know how to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, an omnipotent G-d would have the ability to stop the ice-cream from being extra drippy, and by golly, an omnibenevolent G-d wouldn't want your ice-cream to be extra drippy.
You're retarded.
5.You believe the astronomical size of the universe somehow disproves G-d, as if G-d needed a tiny universe in order to exist.
Good job. You've shown complete ignorance of the point of the anthropic principle. It does not prove god does not exist. It proves that he is unnecessary.
9.You spend hours arguing that a-theism actually means "without a belief in G-d " and not just " belief that there is no god" as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.
It may not be a meaningful distinction in real life, but it is a meaningful distinction for the purposes of an argument.
10.You consistently deny the existence of G-d because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced G-d as a reality in their lives.
Just as you likely reject the claims of people who say they have been abducted and experimented on by aliens or people who claim to hear voices telling them to kill people.
12.You insist that "the burden of proof is on he that alleges/accuses", and "it's impossible to prove a negative", then state "That's what Christians do. They lie. Their most common lie is that they were once atheists." When reminded about the burden of proof bit, you reply with, "Well, prove Christians don't lie!"
The burden of proof does lie with theists. I've never heard the latter half of that point used, though.
15.You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense".
Ahh..the appeal to majority fallacy.
19.You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded".
Wrong. We hold that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, we have no evidence for its existence and so it would be silly to assume that it does. We are aware that this does not prove it does not exist.
23.You blame God for the starvation, sickness, pain and suffering in the world...when, indeed, it is MAN's greed, politics, selfishness and apathy that not only causes, but also ignores the sick and the starving masses. We aren't our brothers' keepers....but we should be.
My argument on the other thread proves that starvation, sickness, pain and suffering occur because god wanted them to.
59.Any scholar who believes in a historical Jesus must be a theist. If they are an atheist, then they must secretly want to be a theist. 60.You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", then claim that Jesus never existed. 61.You contend that no war in history has ever been created by non-belief. Yet, when you are told that 176 million people lost their lives in wars during the last century, created by non-believers like Stalin, Lenin, Mao and Hitler, to name only a few, you reply that those wars fought were fought in the name of ideology and not 'atheism' as atheists "…don't fly planes into buildings or start wars." 62.You accept (and quote back to Christians) any number of works that say Jesus wasn't the Son of G-d and call them "honest", "thought-provoking" and 'scholarly" proof, even when they completely contradict each other and come to completely different conclusions. 63.You think it's entirely possible for documents dated to the 10th century to have been forged in the 14th. (Used of Tacitus once.) 64.You believe that when our forefathers are framing the Constitution, they're staunch deists, but when they're beating their slaves, they're Bible-believing Christians. 65.You think that the Declaration of Independence is unconstitutional because it mentions "the creator". 66.On, that basis, You think that the Declaration is therefore void and the United States should return to British rule. 67.When it is returned to British rule, you plan to go straight to London and tell those Brits that having the Anglican church as a state church violates the constitutional separation of church and state. 68.When you use a historical point to prove Christianity is false (i.e., pagan parallel to Christianity), history is objective truth. When a Christian uses real historical scholarship to prove you false, history was written by subjective men and therefore cannot be trusted. 69.You reject what Cornelius Tacitus wrote about Jesus, dismissing it as "too late", but you readily accept what he wrote about Tiberius and Augustus. 100+ year old scholarship is good enough for you. 70.You think Bolshevik Revolution leader Leon Trotsky was a far better person than Mother Theresa. 71.You apparently think the first century AD was in the Stone Age, since you refer to Christianity as "Stone Age beliefs". 72.When Christians tell you that The Bible is inerrant you go on and list a bunch of "contradictions"; when the Christian shows to you that those are not contradictions but the result of taking things out of context you list more "contradictions" when the Christian does the same with those you complain that he/she is just making stuff up and/or that the answer the Christian gives you are not "satisfactory" and proceed of course to list more "contradictions". 73.You like to complain about the wars and killings found in the Bible and like to claim that this is some sort of proof to conclude that it is not The Word of G-d. When the Christian points out that the Bible is about reality and that it exposes humanity and all what comes with it, you complain that it is nonsense and that no good G-d would allow for that to happen. You would then just claim that it is too perfect and not true. 74.You like to list contradictions to Christians like if you some how pretend that Christians are not aware of them or that they are igorant about their own religion. 75.You evidently think that slaughtering 6,000,000 Jews is no different from using sugar in your porridge,since whenever someone points out that Hitler's actions show him to VERY UN-Christian,you exclaim "No true Scotsman uses sugar in his porridge!" 76.You think historians Michael Grant and Robin Lane Fox are "religious nutcases" for believing Jesus existed. 77.You refuse to use the word "excruciating" because of its origins in describing the agonies of crucifixion. (ex crucis - "from the cross") 78.When a Christian tells you that in order to fully understand The Word of G-d you need to open up your heart and allow The Bible to speak to you and to read The Bible by placing confidence in G-d, you say that the Bible is just a book and that why you don't have to do the same with Harry Potter. 79.You always refer to C.S. Lewis as "that traitor." 80.You desperately wish that Stalin and Mao hadn't been atheists. 81.You absolutely insist a Christian recognize your nonscholar as an expert (G. A. Wells) but refuse to recognize his legitimate scholar as expert (Colin Hemer). 82.You not only spell "G-d" with a lower case "g," but you also add an "E" to "B.C.," and replace the word "Christ" with an "x." Yet, when asked to name the planets you have no problem with spouting out the appropriate list of Roman Gods. Heck, you'll even spell them with capital letters! Not only that, you can even spell and pronounce the name of the 800-mile-diameter Trans-Neptunian Object 'Quaoar', and are delighted that it comes from the creation mythology of the Tongva people (aka the San Gabrielino Native Americans). 83.In addition, you say that terms like "AD", "BC" and "christmas" (as opposed to "winter holiday season"
) are medieval, outdated, bigoted poison and must be eliminated at all costs from the world, yet the fact that our months and days are largely named after Roman, viking etc. figures (eg. Janus - January, Thor - Thursday) is a glowing testimony to the diverse and wonderful nature of human history 84.You think that religious wars have killed more people than any other kind of war, even though the largest wars of the last 200 years (World War I and II, Civil War, etc.) had no discernable religious causes. 85.You think that the Spanish Inquisition killed millions (or at least hundreds of thousands), even though the population of all of Spain at the time of the Inquisition was only about five million, and the actual total killed numbers about 2000. When informed of this, you accuse the informer of belittling or being insensitive to the deaths of 2000 individuals. 86.You bring up the alleged 'horrors' of the Spanish Inquisition to show how evil the church is. When shown that the SI was not the horror that it was painted to be, you switch gears and ask if the believer notes this because they think people are justified to feel moral revulsion with the Spanish Inquisition as it is commonly understood. 87.In a coffee table conversation you hear religion represented in a positive light. You immediately start preaching about the Inquisition and the Crusades to put things back on track. After all, "we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door". 88.You believe that Christians burned down the Great Library of Alexandria. When you learn that this was impossible, you assert that it is obvious that Christians did burn a lot of ancient books. When you are shown that this too is false, you wait a while, then make the same claim again, hoping that the person who corrected you with the facts won't notice. 89.You desperately confer with other skeptics to try and refute the evidence that Hitler's Holocaust was evolution-inspired, because, darn it, you just GOTTA prove that Hitler was a Christian. 90.You're convinced, despite evidence to the contrary, that Christianity was responsible for the Jewish holocaust because, dang it, that just SEEMS like something Christians would do. 91.You believe that Hitler claiming to be a Christian is undeniable proof that he was a Christian, while George Washington only claimed to be a Christian in order to win the people's favor. 92.You adamantly refuse to recognise the historical fact that "scientific atheism" was both a foundational philosophical position and an actual policy of the Soviet Union from the time of Lenin on, responsible for untold persecution, torture, suffering, humiliation and death far in excess of the numbers of the "victims" of Christianity. 93.On the other hand you further show your ignorance of history by constantly repeating "whoppers" about the numbers of victims of Christian Inquisitions, crusades and witchhunts dredged up from various unscholarly hate sites and passed off as historical fact. For example...you can claim with a poker face that 9 MILLION women were put to death as witches by Christian fanatics in pre-Enlightenment Europe. You assert that the 300 Protestants put to death under the reign of "Bloody Mary" in 16th century England stand as absolute proof of the inherent evil of Christianity but the tens upon tens of millions killed by Marxist regimes under Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot in the 20th century have absolutely NOTHING to do with the profound atheism inherent in these regimes. 94.You really believe that the Enlightenment made people more enlightened. 95.You think that Robert Green Ingersoll and Joseph McCabe are two of the greatest philosophers of religion ever to have lived - certainly far superior to nobodies like Thomas Aquinas or Blaise Pascal. 96.Indeed you believe that McCabe is "One of the giants of not only English Atheism, but world Atheism". [which could be construed as a slight on the intellectual quality of atheism]. 97.You adhere to a false and fictionalised version of history gained from watching Hollywood movies such as Inherit the Wind so that you can (for example) conclude: "the controversy over creation and evolution was settled way back in 1925, when Clarence Darrow eviscerated William Jennings Bryan in a country courtroom in Dayton, Tennessee." 98.You think that Pope Leo X may have really called Christ a fable, because it's "the type of thing he would say," but you deny that G-d could have said what the Bible attributes to Him because it is recorded by "anonymous" witnesses. 99.You've never understood why merely uttering the phrase "Christian America" is not considered to be a declaration of treason against the "TRUE" United States of America. 100.You think there's more evidence for the existence of Wonder Woman than for Jesus. 101.You complain about desecrating the Koran while holding a burning Bible. 102.You think religion is "the original war crime". 103.You think the Ku Klux Klan and the Christian Identity movement are representative of "mainstream" Christianity. 104.You think serial killer Dennis "BTK" Rader is a "model Christian" and Olympic Park/abortion clinic bomber Eric Rudolph is a "good Christian boy". Anyone who argues otherwise is committing the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. 105.You believe that "if it weren't for the U.S. Constitution, Christian leaders would be burning women at the stake." 106.You continually argue that Hitler was a "real Christian" even when he and his fellow Nazis were slaughtering millions of people (and you "conveniently" ignore the very obvious distinction between someone claiming to be a Christian and someone actually living as a Christian, and the fact that the Nuremberg prosecutors denounced Nazism as fanatically ANTI-Christian!), but you deny that the scientists who rejected Galileo's work were real scientists. 107.You insist that the historical data is too sparse to know anything about the ancient world, but you then proceed to tell us what 'actually happened' anyway.
Ok, I will address a few of these. Most of these are simply not true of me, but I will cover the ones that contain a bit of truth.
9.You spend hours arguing that a-theism actually means "without a belief in G-d " and not just " belief that there is no god" as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.
The differences in the two definitions are indeed subtle, and generally not important. However the difference is important when an athesis is told that his belief is a "faith" since he can not prove there is no god.
10.You consistently deny the existence of G-d because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced G-d as a reality in their lives.
Of course I do. We all value our own personal experence as being more truthworthy then the stories we are told of other's experences. For example, if you and I were to walk out of a room and I recall the room being painted red and you recall it being painted blue, you would likely assume that your memory is correct and mine is not.
14.When you were a child, someone came down with a deadly disease and prayed and prayed for G-d to take it away. G-d did not remove the disease and your friend died. You ask other Christians why they had to die when they were such a nice person and never harmed anyone. Dissatisfied with their answers, you suddenly decide that there is no G-d and that all Christians are nothing but lying, conniving con artists and hypocrites....all that is except for your friend who died.
I don't blieve that Christans are liers, con artists, or hypocrites. They are not bad people, they are simply wrong.
15.You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense".
And how many people are Christans? I have read that only 33% of people are Christans. And this number includes groups with vary different beliefs, Catholics, Mormons, ect, as well at the people who have not opened a Bible or attended church in many years, but come from a family with Christan tradition so they call themselves Christan. The number of people who share a similar set of beliefs as you are indeed much smaller.
20.You say that there is no G-d and that those who believe in G-d do so in blind faith, yet your claim that there is no G-d also rests on blind faith.
See response #9Well, I will cover more later.
9.You spend hours arguing that a-theism actually means "without a belief in G-d " and not just " belief that there is no god" as if this is a meaningful distinction in real life.
The differences in the two definitions are indeed subtle, and generally not important. However the difference is important when an athesis is told that his belief is a "faith" since he can not prove there is no god.
10.You consistently deny the existence of G-d because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced G-d as a reality in their lives.
Of course I do. We all value our own personal experence as being more truthworthy then the stories we are told of other's experences. For example, if you and I were to walk out of a room and I recall the room being painted red and you recall it being painted blue, you would likely assume that your memory is correct and mine is not.
14.When you were a child, someone came down with a deadly disease and prayed and prayed for G-d to take it away. G-d did not remove the disease and your friend died. You ask other Christians why they had to die when they were such a nice person and never harmed anyone. Dissatisfied with their answers, you suddenly decide that there is no G-d and that all Christians are nothing but lying, conniving con artists and hypocrites....all that is except for your friend who died.
I don't blieve that Christans are liers, con artists, or hypocrites. They are not bad people, they are simply wrong.
15.You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense".
And how many people are Christans? I have read that only 33% of people are Christans. And this number includes groups with vary different beliefs, Catholics, Mormons, ect, as well at the people who have not opened a Bible or attended church in many years, but come from a family with Christan tradition so they call themselves Christan. The number of people who share a similar set of beliefs as you are indeed much smaller.
20.You say that there is no G-d and that those who believe in G-d do so in blind faith, yet your claim that there is no G-d also rests on blind faith.
See response #9Well, I will cover more later.
24.You believe that planes, computers, calculators, compasses, etc, were "all obviously designed," yet the human body, being intricately more complex was "obviously a product of biological evolution." It seems the more complex the apparatus, the more obvious the "fact" that it was not designed.
I don't see any reason to believe this. If this were true wouldn't mean that a god (the most complex thing possible) would also had been "designed"?
30.You descended from apes.(Think about it.)
Yes I did, well ape-like animals that is.
32.You think you arrived at your position because you are a free-thinker who rationally weighed the evidence, and then freely chose atheism over theism. YET, you also believe that your thinking and actions are nothing more than the FIXED reactions of the atoms in your brain that are governed by the Laws of Chemistry and Physics.
You put this one in bold, so I assume you believe it's important. You are basically summing up the debate on freewill. And yes there does seem to be elements of truth in both statements. A paradox to which I can't give you an answer.
33.You love to castigate Christians for being "anti-science" if they deny evolution from goo to you via the zoo, and to preach that they should adapt their thinking to the "science" of our day. But you also castigate the Church of 400 years ago for being anti-science, when it DID adapt its thinking to the science of ITS day, i.e. Ptolemaic cosmology, then joined with the Aristotelian scientists of the universities in rejecting Galileo!
Actually Christan scientists have adapted their their thinking to the "science" of our day. Go to the biology department any Christan collage and you will see this is true.
43.You claim antibiotic-resistant bacteria is proof protozoa evolved into a person.
Not proof, evidence.
44.You insist that science is completely partial to all ideas, is not dogmatic and researches all possibilities -- except creationism and/or intelligent design.
Scientists are human and as such science is not totally free of dogma, however I do believe that it is far more open to all possibilities then other processes, like politics for example. It's not that scientists advoid ID, it that there is nothing to test. What exactly would be an example of a ID research project?
I don't see any reason to believe this. If this were true wouldn't mean that a god (the most complex thing possible) would also had been "designed"?
30.You descended from apes.(Think about it.)
Yes I did, well ape-like animals that is.
32.You think you arrived at your position because you are a free-thinker who rationally weighed the evidence, and then freely chose atheism over theism. YET, you also believe that your thinking and actions are nothing more than the FIXED reactions of the atoms in your brain that are governed by the Laws of Chemistry and Physics.
You put this one in bold, so I assume you believe it's important. You are basically summing up the debate on freewill. And yes there does seem to be elements of truth in both statements. A paradox to which I can't give you an answer.
33.You love to castigate Christians for being "anti-science" if they deny evolution from goo to you via the zoo, and to preach that they should adapt their thinking to the "science" of our day. But you also castigate the Church of 400 years ago for being anti-science, when it DID adapt its thinking to the science of ITS day, i.e. Ptolemaic cosmology, then joined with the Aristotelian scientists of the universities in rejecting Galileo!
Actually Christan scientists have adapted their their thinking to the "science" of our day. Go to the biology department any Christan collage and you will see this is true.
43.You claim antibiotic-resistant bacteria is proof protozoa evolved into a person.
Not proof, evidence.
44.You insist that science is completely partial to all ideas, is not dogmatic and researches all possibilities -- except creationism and/or intelligent design.
Scientists are human and as such science is not totally free of dogma, however I do believe that it is far more open to all possibilities then other processes, like politics for example. It's not that scientists advoid ID, it that there is nothing to test. What exactly would be an example of a ID research project?
"Since atheism cannot be proven and since disproving evidences for God does not prove there is no God, atheists have a position that is intellectually indefensible. "unknown
(n2thelight;7599)
"Since atheism cannot be proven and since disproving evidences for God does not prove there is no God, atheists have a position that is intellectually indefensible."
Again see response #9. Atheism is not a belief that needs to be proved, rather it the absence of any belief. Do you understand the difference?
"Since atheism cannot be proven and since disproving evidences for God does not prove there is no God, atheists have a position that is intellectually indefensible."
Again see response #9. Atheism is not a belief that needs to be proved, rather it the absence of any belief. Do you understand the difference?
(n2thelight;7617)
Every choice has a consequence
Care to elaborate? I don't know what you are getting at, or how it applies to anything in this thread.
Every choice has a consequence
Care to elaborate? I don't know what you are getting at, or how it applies to anything in this thread.
I will comment for N2.... you will eventually have consequences to your beliefs or lack of them. It will not effect me, N2 or any other of the people who have tried to persuade you of the truth of the Word of God...Have you ever read Ps. 22 written almost a 100 years prior to the deat of Christ on the cross? If you did yo would see the confimation of the Truth of the Word. Have you ever read the predictions of the prophets 2700 years ago who told us the things that are in our headlines today? I challenge you once again to look a the very thing you scoff at...People who know the Word of God have a reason for their belief, beyond faith. The confirmation of Gods Word is real...and you my friend are one day going to pay for the unbelief you profess.
Being an atheist was never a choice for me. I no more chose to be an atheist then you chose to believe that these words are underlined. It's simply that, the conclusion my brain has made, based on all available evidence, is that there is no reason to believe in the existence of any god. I could not "choose" to believe in god if I wanted to. It would be like choosing to believe that 2=3.Threats and scare tactics are not going to force me to believe otherwise.
tomwebster
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(radiofreethinking;7842)
Being an atheist was never a choice for me. I no more chose to be an atheist then you chose to believe that these words are underlined. It's simply that, the conclusion my brain has made, based on all available evidence, is that there is no reason to believe in the existence of any god. I could not "choose" to believe in god if I wanted to. It would be like choosing to believe that 2=3.Threats and scare tactics are not going to force me to believe otherwise.
Radio,it's a free country. We all have the ability to make choices. Good luck with yours.
Being an atheist was never a choice for me. I no more chose to be an atheist then you chose to believe that these words are underlined. It's simply that, the conclusion my brain has made, based on all available evidence, is that there is no reason to believe in the existence of any god. I could not "choose" to believe in god if I wanted to. It would be like choosing to believe that 2=3.Threats and scare tactics are not going to force me to believe otherwise.
Radio,it's a free country. We all have the ability to make choices. Good luck with yours.
What is the point of an atheist coming to a Christian forum and arguing against God? You know that a few paragraphs about why you should believe in God is not going to change your mind, and I know that a few paragraphs about why I should have no belief is not going to change mine. Do you just like to argue? Seems pretty pointless to me...
For LifeWithout us Atheist would not excist so they need to lurk among our sites to prove they have a reason to be what they are.Which actullay proves the oppisite we don't have to hang around antiGod sites to prove we are Gods children.
(tomwebster;7848)
Radio,it's a free country. We all have the ability to make choices. Good luck with yours.
I don't think you understood the point I was makeing, or perhapse you just chose to ignore it.
Radio,it's a free country. We all have the ability to make choices. Good luck with yours.
I don't think you understood the point I was makeing, or perhapse you just chose to ignore it.
(For Life;7853)
What is the point of an atheist coming to a Christian forum and arguing against God? You know that a few paragraphs about why you should believe in God is not going to change your mind, and I know that a few paragraphs about why I should have no belief is not going to change mine. Do you just like to argue? Seems pretty pointless to me...
Why am I here? Yes, I like to debate. I think it good to be exposed to ideals that are different then your own. Doing so will eaither reinforce your beliefs or will cause you to change them. One thing that is very different between atheists and theists is that theists tend to avoid anything that might change their beliefs, while atheists tend to seek out challenges to their belief.I can think of two reasons for this, one, I think atheists tend to be more confident of their beliefs then theists. Secondly, and more importantly, is that many atheists, includeing myself have no underlying motivation to remain an atheist. I don't desire to remain an atheist or to become a "better atheist". I am not an atheist because I desire to live a non-christan lifestyle. If I was presented with evidence of the existance of God, I would gladly change my beliefs. This is in contrast to Christans who have the threat of punishment motivating them to their beliefs.
What is the point of an atheist coming to a Christian forum and arguing against God? You know that a few paragraphs about why you should believe in God is not going to change your mind, and I know that a few paragraphs about why I should have no belief is not going to change mine. Do you just like to argue? Seems pretty pointless to me...
Why am I here? Yes, I like to debate. I think it good to be exposed to ideals that are different then your own. Doing so will eaither reinforce your beliefs or will cause you to change them. One thing that is very different between atheists and theists is that theists tend to avoid anything that might change their beliefs, while atheists tend to seek out challenges to their belief.I can think of two reasons for this, one, I think atheists tend to be more confident of their beliefs then theists. Secondly, and more importantly, is that many atheists, includeing myself have no underlying motivation to remain an atheist. I don't desire to remain an atheist or to become a "better atheist". I am not an atheist because I desire to live a non-christan lifestyle. If I was presented with evidence of the existance of God, I would gladly change my beliefs. This is in contrast to Christans who have the threat of punishment motivating them to their beliefs.
Radiofree....you are a liar.... You will not read the Bible and will not see the points we have shown you in it that prove the omniciency of the God who inspired it and when we give you those point YOU INGNOR them. You know where the phrase liar liar pants on fire come from?.... well, you will ... I don't say these thing to scare you... I too enjoy debate from the platform of truth... unlike you who come from the platform of a poorly functioning brain.
(radiofreethinking;7870)
Why am I here? Yes, I like to debate. I think it good to be exposed to ideals that are different then your own. Doing so will eaither reinforce your beliefs or will cause you to change them. One thing that is very different between atheists and theists is that theists tend to avoid anything that might change their beliefs, while atheists tend to seek out challenges to their belief.If I was presented with evidence of the existance of God, I would gladly change my beliefs. This is in contrast to Christans who have the threat of punishment motivating them to their beliefs.
You are an atheist because you lack understanding we are not Christians because of threat of punishment you are as much a victim of organised religion (made by man for man )as those who can't see past the ministers standing at the pulpits, to the truth of Gods word.We are not Christians because of fearWe are Christians because of the promise of the rewards. Everyone has faith whether you admit it or not.When your parents told you things would be O.k. or you say that to those you care about, that's faith you cant prove it will be O.K. Christianity is a way of life not a religion (religion is a belief,in a certain way to worship )Christianity is a way of life to be a christian you never have to step in a church or read a Bible for that matter. If you are a good person live the 10 commandments(Law) believe in God AND Christ you are a Christian the end. Many people are Christians and don't even fully realize it.You labor under so many misconceptions most all of us, did at one time think different, what you say about exposing us to other points of view is really ridiculous and arrogant thinking. Most of us came from those different ideas to where we are (thankfully). It is you who are lost. Whether you ever cop to it or not is really why you are here. We have something that a part of you desires yet you can not rationalize it, so you want to question it. To believe if you say it isn't so, its not, no matter how much you say it, you want prove it isn't so. Thats you're real desire to be able to prove God doesn't exist, but you can't, so you want us to prove he does that takes the pressure off you. Science can not prove a lot of things that doesnt mean they don't exist just means they haven't proved it yet. It is the same with God we may not yet be able to prove it to your satisfaction, But when Christ is standing on the Mt. it will be proof to all you who doubted.The only difference is in the rewards you and I will receive because I believed he loved and comforted me and told me it would be all right before I physically saw him....that's faithWe are 100% sure you will be proven wrong ,Don't you wish you had that degree of sureity you were right ?
Why am I here? Yes, I like to debate. I think it good to be exposed to ideals that are different then your own. Doing so will eaither reinforce your beliefs or will cause you to change them. One thing that is very different between atheists and theists is that theists tend to avoid anything that might change their beliefs, while atheists tend to seek out challenges to their belief.If I was presented with evidence of the existance of God, I would gladly change my beliefs. This is in contrast to Christans who have the threat of punishment motivating them to their beliefs.
You are an atheist because you lack understanding we are not Christians because of threat of punishment you are as much a victim of organised religion (made by man for man )as those who can't see past the ministers standing at the pulpits, to the truth of Gods word.We are not Christians because of fearWe are Christians because of the promise of the rewards. Everyone has faith whether you admit it or not.When your parents told you things would be O.k. or you say that to those you care about, that's faith you cant prove it will be O.K. Christianity is a way of life not a religion (religion is a belief,in a certain way to worship )Christianity is a way of life to be a christian you never have to step in a church or read a Bible for that matter. If you are a good person live the 10 commandments(Law) believe in God AND Christ you are a Christian the end. Many people are Christians and don't even fully realize it.You labor under so many misconceptions most all of us, did at one time think different, what you say about exposing us to other points of view is really ridiculous and arrogant thinking. Most of us came from those different ideas to where we are (thankfully). It is you who are lost. Whether you ever cop to it or not is really why you are here. We have something that a part of you desires yet you can not rationalize it, so you want to question it. To believe if you say it isn't so, its not, no matter how much you say it, you want prove it isn't so. Thats you're real desire to be able to prove God doesn't exist, but you can't, so you want us to prove he does that takes the pressure off you. Science can not prove a lot of things that doesnt mean they don't exist just means they haven't proved it yet. It is the same with God we may not yet be able to prove it to your satisfaction, But when Christ is standing on the Mt. it will be proof to all you who doubted.The only difference is in the rewards you and I will receive because I believed he loved and comforted me and told me it would be all right before I physically saw him....that's faithWe are 100% sure you will be proven wrong ,Don't you wish you had that degree of sureity you were right ?
(betchevy;7872)
Radiofree....you are a liar.... You will not read the Bible and will not see the points we have shown you in it that prove the omniciency of the God who inspired it and when we give you those point YOU INGNOR them. You know where the phrase liar liar pants on fire come from?.... well, you will ... I don't say these thing to scare you... I too enjoy debate from the platform of truth... unlike you who come from the platform of a poorly functioning brain.
betchevy, I am sure that in person, you are a nice person. The internet has a way of bringing out the worst in people, you probably would not resort to personal attacks if we were talking face to face. That said, I have only ever been compleatly honest with you guys. If you believe that I am being deceitful somehow, it would probably be best if you just ignore my posts since there is nothing more I can do to convince you of my sincerity.
Radiofree....you are a liar.... You will not read the Bible and will not see the points we have shown you in it that prove the omniciency of the God who inspired it and when we give you those point YOU INGNOR them. You know where the phrase liar liar pants on fire come from?.... well, you will ... I don't say these thing to scare you... I too enjoy debate from the platform of truth... unlike you who come from the platform of a poorly functioning brain.
betchevy, I am sure that in person, you are a nice person. The internet has a way of bringing out the worst in people, you probably would not resort to personal attacks if we were talking face to face. That said, I have only ever been compleatly honest with you guys. If you believe that I am being deceitful somehow, it would probably be best if you just ignore my posts since there is nothing more I can do to convince you of my sincerity.
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