Sorry @Holy999 for derailing your thread... It's Truman's fault... LOL
you need to go 100% Holy.... or otherwise wont work...
- Thread starter Holy999
- Start date
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HAHAHAHAHA.... oh my goodness .... I have no idea why this is all SO funny today... but I am actually crying from laughing so hard.
Thanks for the reprieve from strife.... Poor Holy... who wanted to debate and his thread got kidnapped... at least we are not demanding ransom.
Ok... really ... I am out....
Thanks for the reprieve from strife.... Poor Holy... who wanted to debate and his thread got kidnapped... at least we are not demanding ransom.
Ok... really ... I am out....
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Only God is Holy.
No one is sinless.
The Bible calls Christians saints. That still does not mean we are sinless or there was ever an expectation of sinless Christians. Christ is not a moron.
The Jews came from one Covenant that was governed by the Mosaic Laws. A set of Laws that the Apostle Paul referred to as a ministry of death engraved in stone. He was right. The law was a burden that no man could bear, and therefore could not provide salvation with God or a true relationship with Him...ergo the vail in the temple that separated God from Man. Yahweh has zero tolerance for sin and sin separated God from Man. OT sacrifices could not forgive sins, only appease the wrath of God.
Christ's mission was two fold. Forgive those sins and take us out of Yahweh's tally of sin and wrath and place those sins under His responsibility so that Yahweh would never see them and under His Grace, He presents us before God the Father, as blameless and perfect. That is the reason that the veil was torn into when He passed from the cross. Mankind for the first time could have a relationship with Yahweh. Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. The world was no longer under that system of sin and tally. But still there was a tally of past sins that had to be forgiven and that occurs when we accept salvation from Yeshua.
Now, when we sin it is between us and Yeshua. Forgiveness is between us and Yeshua. But under a very different context...we are family. As Christians we live our lives, a walk with Christ. When we sin on occasion He is our friend and forgiver. Salvation and heaven are very secure. More or less a life of forgiveness and love.
And it does apply to lifestyle sins as long as we eventually see the light and repent for and ask forgiveness. It is basically the story of the prodigal son and there is rejoicing in heaven. But for Christians, the danger is the unrepeated life of sin, that will be judged on that final day. The Bible makes it very clear that there are certain lifestyles that will prevent some from inheriting the kingdom of God... heaven. The scriptures give no if's and's or but's when they list these sins that will deny heaven to evildoers....otherwise heaven would be full of evil of every kind. Heaven is not a reward for evildoers.
That is why the OSAS doctrines are very dangerous. It is a double edge sword. Those that believe in this doctrine may love Yeshua and sin very little...But for new Christians that have lived a life of sin...and have embraced these sinful lifestyles, they may find the doctrine of OSAS very accommodating and see no reason to repent of their sins and continue with their sinful lifestyles. This could very well lead them to hell. How many millions go to hell because some one preached that all is forgiven no matter what? That is one side of the blade.
The other side of the blade is for those that have preached this doctrine of abusing Grace. How many souls will go to hell because of what they said or preached. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. If your standing before Christ on Judgment Day and He tallies up a couple hundred or more souls that are burning in hell because of what you preached...what do you think is going to happen to you? Reward you while they are screaming in hell?....Probably not.
That is why I say to new Christians, workout your salvation with fear and trembling and do not bring the same sins over and over again before Christ to forgive. Repent and flee from sinful lifestyles! Otherwise be confident in your inheritance in heaven and the love of Christ. But do not believe the liars and those that would tick your ears with false doctrines of tolerance of sin. Instead do the best you can from day to day as you walk with Christ. Live your life like Christ is with you always and sees what you do.
No one is sinless.
The Bible calls Christians saints. That still does not mean we are sinless or there was ever an expectation of sinless Christians. Christ is not a moron.
The Jews came from one Covenant that was governed by the Mosaic Laws. A set of Laws that the Apostle Paul referred to as a ministry of death engraved in stone. He was right. The law was a burden that no man could bear, and therefore could not provide salvation with God or a true relationship with Him...ergo the vail in the temple that separated God from Man. Yahweh has zero tolerance for sin and sin separated God from Man. OT sacrifices could not forgive sins, only appease the wrath of God.
Christ's mission was two fold. Forgive those sins and take us out of Yahweh's tally of sin and wrath and place those sins under His responsibility so that Yahweh would never see them and under His Grace, He presents us before God the Father, as blameless and perfect. That is the reason that the veil was torn into when He passed from the cross. Mankind for the first time could have a relationship with Yahweh. Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. The world was no longer under that system of sin and tally. But still there was a tally of past sins that had to be forgiven and that occurs when we accept salvation from Yeshua.
Now, when we sin it is between us and Yeshua. Forgiveness is between us and Yeshua. But under a very different context...we are family. As Christians we live our lives, a walk with Christ. When we sin on occasion He is our friend and forgiver. Salvation and heaven are very secure. More or less a life of forgiveness and love.
And it does apply to lifestyle sins as long as we eventually see the light and repent for and ask forgiveness. It is basically the story of the prodigal son and there is rejoicing in heaven. But for Christians, the danger is the unrepeated life of sin, that will be judged on that final day. The Bible makes it very clear that there are certain lifestyles that will prevent some from inheriting the kingdom of God... heaven. The scriptures give no if's and's or but's when they list these sins that will deny heaven to evildoers....otherwise heaven would be full of evil of every kind. Heaven is not a reward for evildoers.
That is why the OSAS doctrines are very dangerous. It is a double edge sword. Those that believe in this doctrine may love Yeshua and sin very little...But for new Christians that have lived a life of sin...and have embraced these sinful lifestyles, they may find the doctrine of OSAS very accommodating and see no reason to repent of their sins and continue with their sinful lifestyles. This could very well lead them to hell. How many millions go to hell because some one preached that all is forgiven no matter what? That is one side of the blade.
The other side of the blade is for those that have preached this doctrine of abusing Grace. How many souls will go to hell because of what they said or preached. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. If your standing before Christ on Judgment Day and He tallies up a couple hundred or more souls that are burning in hell because of what you preached...what do you think is going to happen to you? Reward you while they are screaming in hell?....Probably not.
That is why I say to new Christians, workout your salvation with fear and trembling and do not bring the same sins over and over again before Christ to forgive. Repent and flee from sinful lifestyles! Otherwise be confident in your inheritance in heaven and the love of Christ. But do not believe the liars and those that would tick your ears with false doctrines of tolerance of sin. Instead do the best you can from day to day as you walk with Christ. Live your life like Christ is with you always and sees what you do.
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DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 10:8-10
First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I will go to the absurd to prove your point:
A person believes in Christ and receives the Holy Ghost and becomes an active Christian. This person moves to Asia and learns a knew religion and is recruited into an Asian gang, where they murder and rape and commit unspeakable atrosities. This person on one occasion is trapped by the police and kills himself rather than go to prison.
I say that God will not allow that person into heaven. Saved once or not saved before.
