How do you explain Jesus' words?It has never changed!! It has always been the elect chosen by the Father, from eternity past before the foundation of the world. Who will be drawn to Christ.
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How do you explain Jesus' words?It has never changed!! It has always been the elect chosen by the Father, from eternity past before the foundation of the world. Who will be drawn to Christ.
Nothing will disagree or conflict if correctly understood, so a correct understanding - given by the Holy Spirit, make no mistake, I'm not saying anything different - a correct understanding will not require to you revisit another passage with the notion that, though it says THIS, it actually means THAT, as required by this other passage. That shows a misunderstanding.Therefore, according to you, we don't really need the Holy Sprit to guide us into truths because we're smart enough to discern Bible doctrines and its' interpretations, right? WOW!!
Easy! The Bible gives us an example.How do you explain Jesus' words?
No misunderstanding!! Most Christians do not understand Bible doctrines and its' interpretations!!!Nothing will disagree or conflict if correctly understood, so a correct understanding - given by the Holy Spirit, make no mistake, I'm not saying anything different - a correct understanding will not require to you revisit another passage with the notion that, though it says THIS, it actually means THAT, as required by this other passage. That shows a misunderstanding.
I agree.We need to be able to accept all the words of Scripture in their own rights. You cannot, at least so it seems to me, claim a spiritual understanding of Scripture, that overturns what the Bible actually says.
Hopefully the above will clarify what the Bible is saying here.Hopefully that will clarify what I am saying here.
OK, so you explain them by denying the full meaning. Because you see another passage that to you can't mean what it says, or that you think it's context modifies the meaning of the word "all". So then you go to this different passage and say, That doesn't actually mean "all" either.Easy! The Bible gives us an example.
Luke 2:1 reads:
"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed."
In those days I believe China already existed as a nation amongst the nations of the world. Were they also subject to taxation?? Of course NOT!! The idea here is only those nations that Rome has conquered at that time are to be taxed.
Same idea as John 12:32. There the word "men" is italicized, meaning it's not in the original manuscripts in the KJV Bible.
Plus the word "all" are those whom the Father elected / chosen in eternity past, before the foundation of the world.
To God Be The Glory
People will believe anything if they don't know what is the subject matter that are being discussed.To then go on to deny Jesus' words, I will draw all men to myself? Why do you imagine He said this? He'd already said, only those the Father drew would come. Why make a different statement? Why give a time references? Why speak as though it's true? But more to the point, why not believe it? I do.
"draw all to myself" is not equal to "cause all to be born again."Let's say you are correct about John 12:32 that the term "I will draw all men to myself" means "each and every men" how then will you account that the Bible stipulates hell will heavily be populated, that is there will be many people in hell.
I certainly do not see why you read Him saying "this", but think He meant "that". Except that it makes more sense to you that way. It makes perfectly good sense to me to read it exactly like Jesus said it.Now can you see that Jesus could not have meant "all men" but rather "all those" that the Father elected and given to Jesus before the foundation of the world!!
According to Romans 8:1-13, the context reveals depends on the choices one makes.Secondly, if a person become "born again" he will still sin because his salvation is two parts. (see, Romans 7:14-25).
When a person becomes born again he cannot lose his salvation and, he cannot sin, because he is born from above!!According to Romans 8:1-13, the context reveals depends on the choices one makes.
Whether, once again become carnal minded, whilst go after the things of the flesh, cum sin and face second death.
Or, being Spirit minded, whilst go after the things of the Spirit and mortify the deeds of the flesh, hence live and inherit eternal life.
Why not? Because it doesn't say so, and that's not what the words themselves mean.Why not?? Both terms are equal to salvation?? I mean what is the Lord Jesus going to do after He draws them but to make them born again, so they can enter to the Kingdom of God??
You don't know me but just to let you know, I take everything in the Bible by faith. Even to those I don't understand."draw all to myself" is not equal to "cause all to be born again."
I certainly do not see why you read Him saying "this", but think He meant "that". Except that it makes more sense to you that way. It makes perfectly good sense to me to read it exactly like Jesus said it.
I believe the very words He spoke, it seems you do not, because it doesn't make sense to you.
True, as Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven, sin no more, or something worst may happen to you." And, "Be ye perfect as your FATHER in Heaven is perfect."When a person becomes born again he cannot lose his salvation and, he cannot sin, because he is born from above!!
I disagree. If you want to learn why born again believers still sin, read Romans 7:14-25. These verses are self explanatory and they show us that our salvation come in two parts!!Born again believers sin, because they fall short of being a 'doer' and 'abider' to the teaching of Lord Jesus Christ in the New Testament.
Ultimately all manner of sins are willful and are forgivable, except the unforgivable sin!!!It depends on wether or it was willful or in a heat of the moment situation done in ignorance without premeditation.
This is explicitly laid out throughout the whole of the Holy Bible in its many and various examples written throughout…
You can disagree because you're stuck with by relating yourself in sin according to Romans ch. 7, as ii thought the same being a fresh born again believer. And, you have not since perceived forwarding to ch. 8, the freedom context to salvation, as i in further discipleship have moved pass it. As a result of those who've not, one is still in 'bondage' after the flesh by the Law of sin and death as in ch. 7, the first part. Therefore, apparently one is saved but not yet freed forwarding to the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus according to ch. 8, the second part.I disagree. If you want to learn why born again believers still sin, read Romans 7:14-25. These verses are self explanatory and they show us that our salvation come in two parts!!
To God Be The Glory
Early scripture did not have chapter and verses, so you stop at verse 25 as the context. Therefore, you testify your salvation is in this context, as it is ok in the flesh you serve sin and in the spirit serve GOD.@Fred J
The end result of your post #75 comes down to these scripture verses:
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Have I not said that man's salvation comes in two parts? One part is in his spirit essence where he cannot sin, and the other is in his body, which has not been born again/saved until Jesus resurrects his body on the last day. But he will continue to sin while in his body on this earth!
One do not go to be with the Lord in heaven, but rather one is 'asleep' on the earthly realm. When only at the trumpet sound, the dead shall rise with the living, and at the blink of an eye they will all be changed. Then they will ascend to meet the Lord in the cloud, who will not step foot on earth.When a believer dies, in his spirit essence he goes to be with Christ in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8), while his body returns to the dust until it is resurrected on the last day!
To God Be The Glory
Ultimately all manner of sins are willful
Hard to envision this needs to be reiterated when Jesus was so clear in teaching it first.An unbeliever is a sinner.
A born again Christian, is something ELSE.
A.) ""As JESUS IS.....so are the born again..... in THIS world"...
Having become..."THE Righteousness of God, in Christ'...
= "BEHOLD, all things are become NEW, and OLD THINGS are passed away"..
= "The old man of SIN, is crucified with Christ", and the BORN AGAIN.... IS resurrected in "newness of LIFE.
Who is that one???
That is the "New Creation, in Christ" and that one is not a ""sinner."""
How so??? Care to elaborate???You are incorrect.