A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

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Runningman

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There is one Godhead.
If this is said of Jesus "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily..." (Col. 2:9) and this is said of Christians "that you may be filled with all the fullness of God..." (Eph. 3:19) then what's the difference in your perspective?
 

marks

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There is not one person with an ounce of a brain that will say Jesus was part of creation.
Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth

This reminds me of:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47
(45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
(46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

These kinds of references are simply all over the Bible.

Much love!
 

Berean

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I associate with Biblical Unitarians. When I tell people that they sometimes think that Biblical Unitarians are Unitarian Universalists and they aren't the same thing or even remotely close to one other. So I just wanted to say that.

The Biblical Unitarians share a lot of similar beliefs with Christadelphians aside from some nuances regarding some tertiary doctrines. So that was a good guess on your part.
Ah, I'm familiar with Biblical Unitarians. Are you then affiliated with the Church of God General Conference? BU's are a very small group. I know there was a merger of Unitarians and Universalist about 50 years ago. But since you use the term "Biblical Unitarians" I assume you trace your beliefs to the early founders in the UK.

There's a Unitarian Universalist Church around the corner from me. Oddly enough there are quite a few "unitarian" churches in and around my area, but a closer look will see that they are Universalist in nature, even though it's not in their name.

There are several CoGGC in my area as well as Christadelphians. When I lived in New Jersey, our little group shared a hall with the Christadelphians, they met in the mornings and we met the afternoons. Since I'm into Church history, especially those groups that share a history, I would chat with them and compare notes. I also use to subscribe to the Restitution Herald and corresponded with Anthony Buzzard back in the 1990s.
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth

This reminds me of:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47
(45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
(46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
(47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

These kinds of references are simply all over the Bible.

Much love!
You miss my point.

The fact is that there was no person called Jesus until he was borthed after about 4000 years from creation as was commanded in Mathew 1:21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for [w]He will save His people from their sins.”

He was known by the name Jesus for His entire life on earth.

We are told in John 1:1 that
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 [a]He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

First obvious thing is John never called this creator Jesus.

Second obvious thing is John said this Word was God. BUT ( and do not go there with Word is not a name.... why not? example...Robert Patrick Bleier former Pittsburgh Steeler was called Rocky. ) We are told of Aaron speaking FOR Moses and God approved. In fact Exodus 6:28 Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I make you as God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet. 2 You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall speak to Pharaoh that he let the sons of Israel go out of his land.

In the beginning God was God and creation came about through the Word.

Third obvious thing is that John said ALL things came into being through the Word who was God.

Yes, God made Adam to be the first "Adam " on earth... and Jesus to be the last Adam.

You cut either of them and they bled. Those who are spirits do not bleed.

God the Father is a spirit. The Spirit hovering over the waters was a spirit. The Word was a spirit.

What I fail to understand is, with all the evidence pointing to they both being God in the bible.... why are people afraid of this? Why are you?
 

Runningman

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Colossians 2:9
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

That's my Jesus!
Same thing applies to regular Christians.

Ephesians 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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I don't understand . . . what is it you think I'm afraid of?

Much love!
I had said: What I fail to understand is, with all the evidence pointing to they both being God in the bible.... why are people afraid of this? Why are you?

People bend over backwards to prove the Word had to be a something and not a someone..... or the word was simple the Father speaking..... something like a Word could not be God because a Word is not a person.

There has to be a reason why ... and it cannot be because they dont see it in the 4 corners of the bible....

I dont know what you would be afraid of.... or why. And it is not just you it is all the anti- people out there.
 

marks

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I dont know what you would be afraid of.... or why.
I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Maybe you've confused me with someone else? Do you think I'm afraid of Jesus being God?

The Word was with God, the word was God, the word became flesh, and tabernacled among us, that would be Jesus, right?

Much love!
 
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Rella ~ I am a woman

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I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Maybe you've confused me with someone else? Do you think I'm afraid of Jesus being God?

The Word was with God, the word was God, the word became flesh, and tabernacled among us, that would be Jesus, right? You are right.

Much love!
You are right.

My apologies. I am the one who got confused with who.
 
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rebuilder 454

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Colossians 1 says Jesus is the image of the invisible God and is himself created. That means he isn't the invisible God and came later after God. Revelation also says Jesus was created. Your premise doesn't follow to a sound Biblical conclusion. Do not begin with a theology about what you believe and then find verses to decorate it with, but rather begin with verses that inform you of the truth and build from there. This is called exegesis.

Colossians 1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Revelation 3
14“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.
The deity of Jesus is expressed in John 1 and Hebrew's 1.
Vivid and a fact.
Firstborn is Him becoming a man.
The God man.
You are taking a spiritual book and torturing it to fit your mind.
 
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rebuilder 454

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The Greek scholars who translated the NT through history with a god at John 1:1 knows much more than her about the Greek language.
In the Greek Lexicons at John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4= the only 2 spots where the true God is called Ton Theon, and the other two are called Theon-Why? There can only be 1 reason-God( Ton Theon) and god (Theon)--trinity translations have small g god for Theon at 2 Cor 4:4, translating is the same at John 1:1. When in the same paragraph that 2 are called God or god, the true God is called Ton Theon.
Theos is used for God The Father over 100 times in the bible

Therefore there is no real God since theos in watchtower bable means "A god."
Watchtower was threatened a law suit back in the 60s for attaching A.T. ROBINSONS NAME in the footnotes as agreeing with watchtower heresy of Jesus being "a god".
Ever wonder why all old watchtower bibles were destroyed?

Watchtower cult reframed Bibles.
 

rebuilder 454

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Yea, that’s inaccurate. The Bible describes Jesus as a container where the Spirit of God dwells. Jesus emptied himself of who not what. In other words, Jesus emptied himself of God dwelling in him.

The attributes of God is what God has but makes up who he is. What Jesus emptied himself of was God dwelling in him not a possession of God that may be borrowed like a belt. And this is further proof against the commonly held doctrine.
Pure lies.
Easily refuted into the trash can where it belongs.
 

rebuilder 454

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You do realize this makes no sense.... But if true ...View attachment 44928... yippee.... Proof.... God does have 2 arms, 2 legs, and a head, just like we do.

The Peshitta.....
read it carefully. I had to cut it due to size... read the rest at Colossians 1 Peshitta Holy Bible Translated

Colossians 1
Peshitta Holy Bible TranslatedPar ▾
1Paul, an Apostle of Yeshua The Messiah by the will of God, and brother Timotheus,

2To those who are in Colossus, holy brethren and believers in Yeshua The Messiah: Peace with you and grace from God Our Father.

3We always thank God, The Father of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah, and we pray for you,

4Behold, from the time we heard of your faith in Yeshua The Messiah and your love for all The Holy Ones,

5Because of the hope which is kept for you in Heaven, that which from the first you had heard in the word of the truth of The Gospel,

6That which was preached to you, as also to the whole world, and grows and yields fruit, just as also in you from the day when you heard and were taught the grace of God in the truth,

7According to what you learned from Epaphra our beloved companion, who is a trustworthy Minister for you of The Messiah.

8And he has made known to us your love, which is in The Spirit.

9Due to this also, we, from the day when we heard, do not cease to pray for you and to request that you be filled with the knowledge of the pleasure of God in all wisdom and in all spiritual understanding,

10That you would walk according to what is right, and that you may please God in all good works and yield fruit, and increase in the knowledge of God,

11And that you would be empowered with all strength according to the majesty of his glory with all patience, endurance and joy.

12I thank God The Father, who made us worthy for a part of the inheritance of the Saints in the light;

13And he has saved us from the power of darkness and brought us into The Kingdom of his Beloved Son;

14He in whom we have salvation and the forgiveness of sins;

15He who is the image of The Unseen God and is The Firstborn of all creation.

16By him was everything created which is in Heaven and in The Earth: everything that is seen and everything that is unseen, whether Thrones or Dominions or Principalities or Rulers; everything has been created by his hand and in him.

(NOTE: That is not talking about the Father.... Read 15 and 16 again)

17And he is The One who is before all, and all things exist by him.

(NOTE: That also is not talking about the Father.... Read 17 again)

18And he is The Head of the body which is the church, for he is The Head and The Firstborn from among the dead, that he would be Preeminent in everything,

(NOTE: That also is not talking about the Father, it is about Jesus, the first born from among the dead.... Read 18again)

19For in him All Fullness is pleased to dwell,

20And to reconcile all things by him to Itself, and by him It made peace by the blood of his crucifixion, whether of things that are in Earth or that are in Heaven.

21Even you from the first were aliens and enemies in your minds because of your evil works, and now he has given you peace,

22By the body of his flesh and in his death, to establish you before him as Holy Ones without blemish and without an indictment,



NOW... once again John 1 from the Peshitta WHICH I HAVE CUT BECAUSE OF SIZE BUT YOU CAN READ IT YOURSELF IN FULL AT John 1 Peshitta Holy Bible Translated OR John 1 - Peshitta Aramaic New Testament NT John Etheridge 1849 James Murdock 1852 Online Parallel Bible Study

Especially see vs 18. This was the other well known language that Jesus spoke.
John 1

Peshitta Holy Bible TranslatedPar ▾
1In the origin The Word had been existing and That Word had been existing with God and That Word was himself God.

2This One himself was at the origin with God.

3Everything was in his hand, and without him not even one thing existed of the things that existed.4In him was The Life and The Life i

10He was in the world, and the world existed by his hand, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But those that received him, to them he gave authority to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his Name,

13Those who had not been born of blood, nor of the desire of the flesh, nor of the desire of a man, but of God.

14And The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of The Only Begotten of The Father, full of grace and truth.

15Yohannan bore witness of him and cried, saying, “This was he of whom I spoke: 'He that comes after me is preferred in honor before me, for he had priority over me.'

16And of his fulness we have all received, and grace for grace.

17For The Law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Yeshua The Messiah.

18No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”










Yes.
Vivid and clear to us.
Watchtower has a little thingy that processes the bible and spits it out as "purified".
It then becomes the lie they play in.
The lie becomes fact.
The lie is their way of life.
Facts simply get in their way
They, like all cults stumble clumsily over the deity of Jesus.
A babe in Christ with a bible can easily refute their lies.
 

Wrangler

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Pure lies.
Easily refuted into the trash can where it belongs.
Nope. From todays devotional reading,

2 Corinthians 5:19

Contemporary English Version

19 What we mean is that God was in Christ, offering peace and forgiveness to the people of this world. And he has given us the work of sharing his message about peace.

We are like a container with God, our contents. How else do you read “in” us and Christ?
 

rebuilder 454

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God made everything and is not served by human hands. Jesus had human hands. Do the math.

Acts 17
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands. 25Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.


Saying "Let US make man in OUR image" isn't the creation event. That's a statement about what is planned. The actual creation even was performed by YHWH, the Father. I think where you are taking a blind leap of faith is assigning specific persons to the "US" where none are stated. There is no mention of a pre-existent being known as the Word or Son of God or God the Son, Immanuel, etc in the Old Testament.

Genesis 2
4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made them.

Isaiah 44
24Thus says the LORD,
your Redeemer who formed you from the womb:
“I am the LORD,
who has made all things,
who alone stretched out the heavens,
who by Myself spread out the earth,
nope.
Gen 1 let "US MAKE."
"OUR IMAGE"
JOHN 1
JESUS created all things.

We accept it
You do not.
Just say you disagree with the bible.
Stop all the scripture dance and torturing it to fit your error.
 
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rebuilder 454

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Nope. From todays devotional reading,

2 Corinthians 5:19​

Contemporary English Version​

19 What we mean is that God was in Christ, offering peace and forgiveness to the people of this world. And he has given us the work of sharing his message about peace.

We are like a container with God, our contents. How else do you read “in” us and Christ?
your error has a created being with God Creating all things.
You can not refute it.
Your error is in complete disarray and exposed.
 
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rebuilder 454

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7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”


Eeek..run in terror.
God called his Son GOD.
 

Ritajanice

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7 And of the angels He says:

“Who makes His angels spirits
And His ministers a flame of fire.”
8 But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A [f]scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”


Eeek..run in terror.
God called his Son GOD.
Gods written word has already said he came in the flesh...The word was made flesh...well,the Living word is God..so,why do they try and refute His Living word, which is backed up by his written word?
 
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