By Love Serve One Another

[Lizbeth]

I think we all know our positions and how they differ. There will always be a spectrum when it comes to understanding the bible., There are different depths to understanding....or not understanding. As for me...I'm amazed that anyone can't see what is so obvious. For example.

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partakes of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bears not the root, but the root thee. You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not you." Rom 11

Here is another example of we Gentiles being no different than the Israelites and Jews before us. We are all human after all. I think it is arrogant in the extreme to think we are better than the people who went before us. We have the very same challenge that the bible testimony can help us with...if we are humble and teachable.

And most will skim over the "fear" admonitions without giving it a second thought...a real disaster. Few obey the scriptures or align their thinking with the gospel...and the truth.

So then what do others here think??? Let's hear from others....

What I think is that this is just more false assumptions and accusations to deflect from truths and scriptures that people are bringing that don't line up with your false gospel which you are unable to answer and address.

And since you ask, I also think that you might need to examine whether your need to defend the Jews from imagined slights is born of God or of self-righteousness. Ironic, because all those parables and warnings that Jesus made were to the unbelieving Jews. (first) The narrow path that few will find.....Jesus is that narrow path that few out of all Israel who Jesus was walking among would find. He, the sheepgate that they could enter the fold no other way. Parable of the the ten virgins also....warning and speaking to the Jews of that day....the door closed on that generation and their destruction came in 70 AD. His words till speak to and admonish the Jews today, so why don't you stop being preferential and go and accuse them?

And since you are so keen to change the subject and talk about Israel/Jews now, and who is "preferred", you better familiarize yourself with this passage, lest you be too sentimental regarding them:

Rom 9:6

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) ;
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Now before you go looking for more excuses to accuse falsely, if we have the Spirit of God we understand that love and hate here are not in a literal sense. And it is for God to judge the Jews, not we mere mortals who are ourselves subject to His judgment. They are certainly loved for the sake of the faithful patriarchs, being their progeny. But also, don't forget that they are enemies for the gospel's sake, this is also very true...they persecuted the early believers horribly and believers in Israel today are often mistreated to the point of losing livelihoods and to the point of the police ignoring injustices against them. Don't be surprised if severe persecution arises again towards the end. But....love your enemies and do good to them, amen.

 

[Lizbeth]

What you are really saying is that there is a difference between a Jew or an ancient Israelite ...and modern Western believers...that somehow we are superior or that God favours us more.

He certainly does favour His children more than those who are not His. But that is in the way of blessing, not in a human way of favouring and being preferential. We who know the Lord are blessed with blessings and promises that those who are not His just aren't. Doesn't mean anyone is "superior"....we WANT and seek that others would be blessed as we are......and also on the contrary God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the strong. Most of us don't amount to much in this world, from man's point of view....we have nothing to boast in......the devil was targeting most of us before we were even born again as well as afterward. But it all helped to prepare our hearts to receive the gospel....what the devil meant for evil, God meant for good.

 

[APAK]

What I think is that this is just more false assumptions and accusations to deflect from truths and scriptures that people are bringing that don't line up with your false gospel which you are unable to answer and address.

And since you ask, I also think that you might need to examine whether your need to defend the Jews from imagined slights is born of God or of self-righteousness. Ironic, because all those parables and warnings that Jesus made were to the unbelieving Jews. (first) The narrow path that few will find.....Jesus is that narrow path that few out of all Israel who Jesus was walking among would find. He, the sheepgate that they could enter the fold no other way. Parable of the the ten virgins also....warning and speaking to the Jews of that day....the door closed on that generation and their destruction came in 70 AD. His words till speak to and admonish the Jews today, so why don't you stop being preferential and go and accuse them?

And since you are so keen to change the subject and talk about Israel/Jews now, and who is "preferred", you better familiarize yourself with this passage, lest you be too sentimental regarding them:

Rom 9:6

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) ;
It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Now before you go looking for more excuses to accuse falsely, if we have the Spirit of God we understand that love and hate here are not in a literal sense. And it is for God to judge the Jews, not we mere mortals who are ourselves subject to His judgment. They are certainly loved for the sake of the faithful patriarchs, being their progeny. But also, don't forget that they are enemies for the gospel's sake, this is also very true...they persecuted the early believers horribly and believers in Israel today are often mistreated to the point of losing livelihoods and to the point of the police ignoring injustices against them. Don't be surprised if severe persecution arises again towards the end. But....love your enemies and do good to them, amen.

Yes, knowing the proper perspective and the real local and extended contextual environment, along with the right audience is all important in the learning of scripture for real meaning. And not just for someone's newly formed pet religious doctrine that cannot stand up to the scrutiny and fire of the word of God.

 

[Lizbeth]

What gift are you speaking of...a gift for reading the bible? A gift for accepting a human scheme that makes beliefs to be the same as faith? There is way too much assuming and presuming going on. The unspeakable gift is to walk in the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead...resurrection life...eternal life...that NO ONE deserves. It is an unspeakable gift. But to think that means that God prefers some people over others based on accepting a religious ideology? Preposterous.



I seek to dispel human beliefs...religious posturing in order to discover a true faith...that God accepts. We are so busy accepting Jesus for our own use that most have never considered that we need to be accepted by God. Our faith is accepted as we are "translated into His dear Son". That's how we experience justification and salvation. Anything less than that is just a religious conjecture. One has to take God more seriously to dispel the human myths and fables. But all the warnings and prophecies of this tendency are found in the bible...with the help of the Spirit that directs those warnings to a person....personally. Otherwise we tend to justify ourselves.


Speculate away I was never indoctrinated into a religious ideology...I started out by a New Covenant walk in the Spirit.

I'm not doing that. I'm trying to stop religious egos from doing that very thing. My contention is that we are all THE SAME. As usual you get things exactly backward. Did you not also consider yourself to have a superior faith to the Israelites who witnessed God's real miracles. Delusions abound. They believed in God...just not that He would do the impossible. They didn't trust God with their lives since those lives were constantly at risk. AND they hated God's hard training. They thought God had it in for them...and He did ...as long as they hung onto their carnal outer man with his murmurings and unbelief.

We tend to get things backwards in regards to God. I say "we" as in all of humanity. We hate the hard training and hard standard that holiness imposes on us. But we all like to be molly-coddled and accepted.

The disciple of Christ learns to love being abased in the outer man...embraces the cross and its power to destroy human hubris...and puts NO confidence in the carnal ways that those who look for good for themselves use. The result is acceptance with God.

Who are the "we" you are constantly referring to and making presumptuous assumptions about?

Only those without the Spirit and His faith would call the wonderful truths of the gospel that are known and received by faith "religious ideology".

 

[amigo de christo]

No, I'm not condemning folks...where did you get that idea? And of course we need to seek God for His grace, amen.....we don't tend to do that until we start to realize we need it.

But I know this is you as usual, tarring with your broad brush everyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you.

Reminding all about the dire need to believe on JESUS the CHRIST is not preaching condemnation .
Its those who preach another gospel , an idea of another hope , that preach condemnation .
IT was JESUS himself who said what would happen to those who believe and what would occur
unto those who believed not .
It was JESUS who told the desciples to preach to the world the true gospel .
It was JESUS who told them if any did not recieve it , shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them .
It was the apostels WHO DID what HE had said and even did shake the dust off their feet against those who believed not on CHRIST JESUS .
Its epi and todays inclusivity that tries to sell this new hybrid gospel .
And it wont bode well for any who did such a thing on the DAY of the LORD .
Look at how clear even the apostel john was in the letter he wrote to the church concerning
those who were trying to seduce the church .
Look at his clear message . a mesage epi calls CONDEMNATION .
For john wrote , WHO IS A LIAR , but he that denies JESUS IS THE CHRIST HE is anti christ .
For john wrote HE who believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON calleth GOD A LIAR .
but epi writes , oh dont condemn , if they have this other level of this so called gospel he preaches , they are fine .
BUT THAT IS NOT what JESUS Nor any apostels ever wrote or said .
EPI is doing the working of that social incluisive gospel
which has come into all denominations and even the false religoins . ITS MEANT only
to merge them as one under what they THINK is GOD and LOVE . It cometh not OF GOD
but of the dragon .
IT cometh not of CHRIST but of that which is of anti christ . ITS PUMPING OUT A FALSE HOPE , aka , A LIE
that will not save . Any who preaches contrary to the original gospel , DOES NOT THE WORK OF GOD
but the work of another who has come in his own name to be honored and glorified as though he be GOD . satan is slick sister .
but the lambs shall resist the lie through faith in CHRIST . YE have overcome them
for greater is HE that is in you than he that is in the world . DONT BUDGE one bit from THAT FOUNDATION , that GOSPEL sister .
HOLD IT FIRM TO THE END .

 

[APAK]

Who are the "we" you are constantly referring to and making presumptuous assumptions about?

Only those without the Spirit and His faith would call the wonderful truths of the gospel that are known and received by faith "religious ideology".

Liz, Epi uses a form of psychological warfare that he may or may not realize he is doing. When a person writes or speaks from a position of weakness they need all the help that they can muster to try and prove their worth and credibility.. And one way is to label others and himself it would seem to the casual observer, as the 'we.' or 'us' in conversation.

Unfortunately I believe he is not being truthful with himself and to others. He really does not intent to include himself in the 'we' or the' us' larger grouping, as he sees them as the Western extended common, probationary believer class, the 'lower' walkers, who have lost their way.

He is not really including himself in this deliberate projective group that he most probably thinks needs condemnation and chastising for not having his unique experienced of the so-called higher' walk experience in the Zen state, that he recently accused me of saying, for something I never hinted at or said myself.

I'm glad you have caught on to his deceptive use of the words such as 'we' and 'us.' in his empty rants ....

This emperor still does not know he lacks clothing.

 

[Lizbeth]

It would be obvious that this expression of note is an idiom to any scholar of the word. If and when you decide to give up your usual rattle of a typical condescending tune and nature, you might learn something of value in your walk.

And further, I have not changed the spirit and intent of Paul's words at all.

You did know that Paul used the same exact expression in 2 Cor 7:15. A description of Titus and his positive impression when he met with the Corinthians. They received him with phobos kai tromos or in fear and trembling Epi.

It is not an expression used for literal fear for their lives, of their souls or of a stressful situation as I already pointed out to you; . and that this expression only applies to God. It does not! I think you need to reexamine and readjust your 'expert' rating in understanding scripture back down to a novice level, and admit you still are in need of much learning, It take some courage and humility to do that of course.

Paul again used the very same expression in Eph 6:5 Epi, and this points to exactly what I initially said it describes in my first note on this subject. It is the sincerity of the heart, the truthfulness of the heart to others as a form of obedience...I could go on as you might know....

So, you must decide whether to stop with your childish religious gibberish that lacks for all intensive purposes, any meaningful substance that anyone can learn or appreciate from.

Humble yourself for a change and admit you do not understand scripture as you think you might Epi.

My words here do convey eternal truth as the Spirit guides me every step in my walk when I write here in a state of phobos kai tromos!

Amen.

I think of the fear of the Lord as being on a spiritual level, not the flesh.....to give Him His due reverence as our King.....like wives reverencing their husbands, as we are the Bride of Christ. Knowing WHO He is and the power and authority He wields and what He is capable of in judgment .....and what He is WORTHY of as being so utterly holy, pure and righteous.....and we NEED Him as our saviour, protector, provider, healer, comforter and guide through this life......He is not just anyone that we should take Him lightly. He doesn't have good things to say of those who regard Him lightly, with lightness. We are to be perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord....His fear is our best friend when we particularly need it, as we run the race endeavouring to apprehend that for which we were apprehended by Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

It would be obvious that this expression of note is an idiom to any scholar of the word. If and when you decide to give up your usual rattle of a typical condescending tune and nature, you might learn something of value in your walk.

Man-made wisdom doesn't grasp spiritual truth. There is no eternal value in scholarly philosophy. The kingdom of God is not of this world. You would learn things of infinitely more value if you put your trust in the right place.

And further, I have not changed the spirit and intent of Paul's words at all.

You have not understood Paul or his testimony of the high calling in Christ.

You did know that Paul used the same exact expression in 2 Cor 7:15. A description of Titus and his positive impression when he met with the Corinthians. They received him with phobos kai tromos or in fear and trembling Epi.

It is not an expression used for literal fear for their lives, of their souls or of a stressful situation as I already pointed out to you; . and that this expression only applies to God. It does not! I think you need to reexamine and readjust your 'expert' rating in understanding scripture back down to a novice level, and admit you still are in need of much learning, It take some courage and humility to do that of course.

The bible attest to walking in the fear of the Lord AND the comfort of the Holy Spirit. The fear part is on the ego..the outer man...the part that gets along in this world. The comfort of the Spirit is for the inner man...the part of us that is created in God's image.

We are both..a mixture if we are born again. The wilderness walk is to purge this carnal side of us away from us...in order to liberate the inner man into fellowship with God.

Paul again used the very same expression in Eph 6:5 Epi, and this points to exactly what I initially said it describes in my first note on this subject. It is the sincerity of the heart, the truthfulness of the heart to others as a form of obedience...I could go on as you might know....

Fear is fear...when God killed Ananias and Sapphirra, people became afraid....why? Because the same thing could happen to them.

"And great fear (phobos) came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things." Acts 5:11

Image a holy God in our midst...whereby sin against His holiness causing instant death! Can you understand how that would bring the fear of the Lord? Even non-believers will fear when their lives are at risk. How much more we who know the "terror of the Lord".

Our lives are in the balance. Many of us will be rejected into an eternity of outer darkness...many will be rejected. There is no idiom here to write off the truth...instead we allow the truth to sweep over us in order to forsake what condemns us.

So, you must decide whether to stop with your childish religious gibberish that lacks for all intensive purposes, any meaningful substance that anyone can learn or appreciate from.

Humble yourself for a change and admit you do not understand scripture as you think you might Epi.

My words here do convey eternal truth as the Spirit guides me every step in my walk when I write here in a state of phobos kai tromos!

Deep confusion here.

 

[Episkopos]

People hate faith because risk is involved...a lot of "if's" as conditions to the promises of God. What people prefer is the certainty of religious beliefs. Offer people a choice and most will go for the religious certainty. But a wiser person will figure out that believing a delusion doesn't help in the outcome...it only masks the problem. My goal is to show an alternative to masking sin...to show how God's ways work on more than one level...on the righteousness level AND the holiness level. We can have sin actually dealt with (taken away) by abiding in Christ...putting on Christ..into the higher walk in the kingdom life (Zoe)...which is the eternal life. Of course the power of the cross of Christ is involved...losing our own life (soul life or psuche) in the process. By losing our soul life...we gain Zoe life.

Now most will NOT believe that such a grace provision exists...that takes real faith. Instead most will opt for a clever re-configuring of certain verses that offer an easy salvation based on accepting a certain ideological position. Then even dynamite will not be able to separate the soul from that kind of delusion. The word of God can do it...but only when the power of the Spirit brings conviction to the inner man.

 

[APAK]

Man-made wisdom doesn't grasp spiritual truth. There is no eternal value in scholarly philosophy. The kingdom of God is not of this world. You would learn things of infinitely more value if you put your trust in the right place.


You have not understood Paul or his testimony of the high calling in Christ.


The bible attest to walking in the fear of the Lord AND the comfort of the Holy Spirit. The fear part is on the ego..the outer man...the part that gets along in this world. The comfort of the Spirit is for the inner man...the part of us that is created in God's image.

We are both..a mixture if we are born again. The wilderness walk is to purge this carnal side of us away from us...in order to liberate the inner man into fellowship with God.




Fear is fear...when God killed Ananias and Sapphirra, people became afraid....why? Because the same thing could happen to them.

"And great fear (phobos) came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things." Acts 5:11

Image a holy God in our midst...whereby sin against His holiness causing instant death! Can you understand how that would bring the fear of the Lord? Even non-believers will fear when their lives are at risk. How much more we who know the "terror of the Lord".

Our lives are in the balance. Many of us will be rejected into an eternity of outer darkness...many will be rejected. There is no idiom here to write off the truth...instead we allow the truth to sweep over us in order to forsake what condemns us.

Deep confusion here.

You know you have left that idiom Paul used that I addressed already, right? Answer that 'fear' first and stop moving on to a different subject, as a moving target as you are. I can address your other 'fear' right now if you wish.

I see you dislike what I have said of your previous fear(s), and predictively and instinctively you now begin a new rant to squelch the truth of the word you have demonstrated time and time again, you cannot understand.

 

[APAK]

People hate faith because risk is involved...a lot of "if's" as conditions to the promises of God. What people prefer is the certainty of religious beliefs. Offer people a choice and most will go for the religious certainty. But a wiser person will figure out that believing a delusion doesn't help in the outcome...it only masks the problem. My goal is to show an alternative to masking sin...to show how God's ways work on more than one level...on the righteousness level AND the holiness level. We can have sin actually dealt with (taken away) by abiding in Christ...putting on Christ..into the higher walk in the kingdom life (Zoe)...which is the eternal life. Of course the power of the cross of Christ is involved...losing our own life (soul life in the process).

Now most will NOT believe that such a grace provision exists...that takes real faith. Instead most will opt for a clever re-configuring of certain verses that offer an easy salvation based on accepting a certain ideological position. Then even dynamite will not be able to separate the soul from that kind of delusion. The word of God can do it...but only when the power of the Spirit brings conviction to the inner man.

A commentary of Epi's latest 'higher' level chamber speech..

Another condescending holier than thou rant to the commoners of the West...I wonder if I was from India, would I be then excused?

Let's see what Epi is up to now....another incredible and predicable self generated straw-man for mass consumption.

His truth: faith requires risk and people go for religious certainty that he implies does not require risk to have real faith...I wonder what this truly means? I see no scripture support as usual.

So he says if you are wise (like me) you would know that opting for a no-risk religious certainty is a delusion...and it masks a problem? What problem? No scripture again...

His goal then is to show us the way to unmask his strawman....of 'our' delusional minds and state of religious entrapment.

He says God's way again, works on more than one level (no scripture support or ref.), and now revised to include, both the righteous and holiness on the higher level. Before he said only the holiness level is the higher walk. I wish he would make up his mind.

He speaks again of his truly unscriptural version of his own words of abiding in Christ, that means to him having put on Christ in the Kingdom and being in eternal life, where scripture already says that all reborn, always abide in Christ, only if and who have his spirit permanently placed within them....

And then he called all this a grace provision, as some kind of added bonus grace( no scripture support again) that apparently only a few are successful in acquiring.

And this his punchline, ready for it....our completely own carnal generated faith of works can cause God to give us this bonus, extra bonus grace. It is the same story, same tune, with a different beat and melody.

And so Epi explains that those who truly know scripture somehow manipulates his doctrine that makes its false and makes him look bad.
As he must know they do not manipulate it as he does, to support his own false doctrine of salvation and sainthood.

And he says that we must be convicted of it by the Spirit of God to do what work then, he does not say and neither does scripture...I wonder what is the spirit of his god he listens to for this conviction?

So I wonder again for the nth time, that after his god convicts him of what I do not know, then how does he get this real faith that most cannot have because they are in a constant state of delusion as his strawman suggests?

Gibberish and more gibberish I'm afraid.

I also do not take his not so innocent rants lightly as he is attempting to lead others away from Christ and the gospel of salvation, of those with already real hope and with the real faith for eternal life...

 

[amadeus]

Most people will NOT believe that such a grace provision exists...that takes real faith. Instead most will opt for a clever re-configuring of certain verses that offer an easy salvation based on accepting a certain ideological position. Then even dynamite will not be able to separate the soul from that kind of delusion. The word of God can do it...but only when the power of the Spirit brings conviction to the inner man.

What is the lie that brings delusion?

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The lie is that a person believes, or wants to believe, that he has already received all of the Truth when he met Jesus. That is only the beginning. The Truth we are to love includes that which we do not yet know, that which we as yet unable to see clearly...

If we have seen a shadow or a mirror image of the Real thing, have we seen all that God will ever allow us to see? The shadow or mirror image can look awfully good when compared to us as we were when completely blind to the things of God.

Are we not to love all of the truth rather than only that portion, which we definitely already understand and have been able to see?

When are we able, if we ever are, to move from seeing through a glass darkly to seeing Jesus truly face to face?

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

 

[amigo de christo]

What is the lie that brings delusion?

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The lie is that a person believes, or wants to believe, that he has already received all of the Truth when he met Jesus. That is only the beginning. The Truth we are to love includes that which we do not yet know, that which we as yet unable to see clearly...

If we have seen a shadow or a mirror image of the Real thing, have we seen all that God will ever allow us to see? The shadow or mirror image can look awfully good when compared to us as we were when completely blind to the things of God.

Are we not to love all of the truth rather than only that portion, which we definitely already understand and have been able to see?

When are we able, if we ever are, to move from seeing through a glass darkly to seeing Jesus truly face to face?

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

While its true we dont understand all when we first are drawn to Christ .
While it is very true, my friend , that we have not recieved all knowledge of Truth when first drawn .
THE LIE is this . THE LIE is this . i wrote it twice for a reason .
THE LIE IS , its not necessary to have FIRST BELIEVED ON JESUS CHRIST , or to even have beleived On HIM .
THE TRUTH IS , that true faith , true belief in JESUS IS WHAT SAVES .
THE TRUTH IS that most within christendom have fallen prey to the lie which implies its not necessary to FIRST have beleived on JESUS
to be saved .
You see most within christendom have come to another jesus . another gospel .
Because most came to another jesus . The one reason why ANYONE who breathes air , will not come
is BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT THEIR SIN exposed .
THEY rather want a jesus that offers salvation but accepts their beleifs and sins .
What is the lie . who is the liar . Who is calling GOD a liar . WHO is anti christ .
THE apostels knew that answer . and if we read the bible so do we .
WHO IS A LIAR , but he who DENIES THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST
WHAT is the TRUTH , the LOVE OF THE TRUTH that saves , ITS THE REAL GOSPEL . that says YE MUST BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST
WHO calleth GOD a LIAR , HE who dont believe the TESTIMONY that GOD gave of HIS SON .
THE LIE is simply that other religoins , that those who dont even believe on JESUS are on the path we are
that its not necessary so long as one lovey do . AND THAT LIE IS ALL OVER THE ENTIRE realm of CHRISTENDOM and it
grows darker and larger by the hour .

 

[Episkopos]

What is the lie that brings delusion?

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The lie is that a person believes, or wants to believe, that he has already received all of the Truth when he met Jesus. That is only the beginning. The Truth we are to love includes that which we do not yet know, that which we as yet unable to see clearly...

Amen. The first step in a race is not the finish line. Yet religious certainty pretends to give a guaranteed outcome for a race that is not run. I liken this to the race between the tortoise and the hare. The hare was so certain of winning, that he lost.

If we have seen a shadow or a mirror image of the Real thing, have we seen all that God will ever allow us to see? The shadow or mirror image can look awfully good when compared to us as we were when completely blind to the things of God.

Are we not to love all of the truth rather than only that portion, which we definitely already understand and have been able to see?

When are we able, if we ever are, to move from seeing through a glass darkly to seeing Jesus truly face to face?

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Amen again...a proper stance for a seeker is to avoid smugness, religious certainties, and emotional hubris...and remain humble and teachable before the Lord. For this advice I am accused by some of destroying people's faith.

 

[Lizbeth]

2Co 1:17-22

When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness? or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay?

But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.

For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.



All the promises are yes and amen to the children of God. This is like when the children of Israel were SAVED by the blood of the Lamb from the wrath of God and angel of death as they were about to come out of Egypt and begin the wilderness trek - and the Lord told them that He had already given them the land of promise……before it came to be….it was already yes and amen. It’s called the Promised Land for the very reason that He promised it to them beforehand. Thus it was imputed to them before they actually acquired and conquered it. Maybe Epi would kindly consider that for a bit, since it is an allegory of the beginning of our salvation and journey in the Lord. One can hope.

 

[Episkopos]

2Co 1:17-22

When I therefore was thus minded, did I use lightness? or the things that I purpose, do I purpose according to the flesh, that with me there should be yea yea, and nay nay?

But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay.

For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.



All the promises are yes and amen to the children of God. This is like when the children of Israel were SAVED by the blood of the Lamb from the wrath of God and angel of death as they were about to come out of Egypt and begin the wilderness trek - and the Lord told them that He had already given them the land of promise……before it came to be….it was already yes and amen. It’s called the Promised Land for the very reason that He promised it to them beforehand. Thus it was imputed to them before they actually acquired and conquered it. Maybe Epi would kindly consider that for a bit, since it is an allegory of the beginning of our salvation and journey in the Lord. One can hope.

A remnant indeed possesses the land. But there is no guarantee that we personally will see it. The fear of the Lord keeps a person in good standing with the Lord...who HATES pride and religious hubris... and thus gives us a chance to remain on the good side of God.

God's will will be done. If one generation fails...there is another generation that follows that is given the same access.

The problem arises when the individual takes all the promises without the fear....without the reality...without any humility. Such were the kind of people who fell in the wilderness. Many will fail...and that has to be factored into the equation...that...and those who fail will be very surprised that they have failed...that's why there will be weeping and anger. My ministry to to minimize the damage. God does not like condemning people...but His righteousness cannot be compromised. So I warn people.

 

[Lizbeth]

What is the lie that brings delusion?

2th 2:10	And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2th 2:11	And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

The lie is that a person believes, or wants to believe, that he has already received all of the Truth when he met Jesus. That is only the beginning. The Truth we are to love includes that which we do not yet know, that which we as yet unable to see clearly...

If we have seen a shadow or a mirror image of the Real thing, have we seen all that God will ever allow us to see? The shadow or mirror image can look awfully good when compared to us as we were when completely blind to the things of God.

Are we not to love all of the truth rather than only that portion, which we definitely already understand and have been able to see?

When are we able, if we ever are, to move from seeing through a glass darkly to seeing Jesus truly face to face?

1co 13:12

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Mr 8:23	And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
Mr 8:24	And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
Mr 8:25	After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Yes perhaps, but unfortunately Epi denies the foundation of the faith, saying those precious things like imputation of righteousness don't apply to the born again believer unless/until they are perfected in this life. If he didn't do that, we might be able to start looking into the rest....but until then there is no proceeding further. Need to get the foundation right first. I know I sure can't trust anything that undermines and discards the foundation of the gospel.

"All things HAVE been put under the feet of Jesus but we do not yet necessarily SEE all things put under." The 'yes but not necessarily yet' of faith. Walking by FAITH not by sight.

 

[Lizbeth]

A remnant indeed possesses the land. But there is no guarantee that we personally will see it. The fear of the Lord keeps a person in good standing with the Lord...who HATES pride and religious hubris... and thus gives us a chance to remain on the good side of God.

God's will will be done. If one generation fails...there is another generation that follows that is given the same access.

The problem arises when the individual takes all the promises without the fear....without the reality...without any humility. Such were the kind of people who fell in the wilderness. Many will fail...and that has to be factored into the equation...that...and those who fail will be very surprised that they have failed...that's why there will be weeping and anger. My ministry to to minimize the damage. God does not like condemning people...but His righteousness cannot be compromised. So I warn people.

You seem to be missing the point there.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes perhaps, but unfortunately Epi denies the foundation of the faith, saying those precious things like imputation of righteousness don't apply to the born again believer unless/until they are perfected in this life.

The ways of God don't work that way. We can have righteousness imputed to us as we repent...like the Publican. But that is NOT the righteousness of Christ...which NEVER can be imputed to anyone. The righteousness is His, the holiness is His, the love is His..

I have said this so many times but a religious conditioning makes it impossible to understand such things,

If he didn't do that, we might be able to start looking into the rest....but until then there is no proceeding further. Need to get the foundation right first. I know I sure can't trust anything that undermines and discards the foundation of the gospel.

The rest of God is to be where He is...in Zion. We can feel good of ourselves...and we can be happy with our portion in life. But the rest of God is something specific. It is to cease from all our own strivings because we are in another realm...the kingdom realm. His burden is light.

"All things HAVE been put under the feet of Jesus but we do not yet necessarily SEE all things put under." The 'yes but not necessarily yet' of faith. Walking by FAITH not by sight.

That is by hope...not faith. But many who consider themselves to be tight with God will be rejected...not being careful to avoid assuming and presuming. Anything that skirts around humility and the fear of the Lord is delusional. God only gives grace to the humble. The religious certainties belong to the Pharisee class.

 

[Lizbeth]

Amen again...a proper stance for a seeker is to avoid smugness, religious certainties, and emotional hubris...and remain humble and teachable before the Lord. For this advice I am accused by some of destroying people's faith.

Um, no, it isn't for that reason...at all.