Do you believe this is...

[face2face]

Satan sinned against God. He's WICKED! He certainly isn't an angel of God. Michael is and worships Jesus.

God created Satan. God / Jesus created EVERYTHING knowing the outcomes.

A very interesting subject indeed. Are you referring to the sovereignty of God? Yes, the Devil has angels too.

Okay, so getting back to the OP you don't believe those two texts?

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored, 6:10 may your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven Mt 6:9–10.

So do His Angels "always" do His Pleasure?
Is His Will "always" done in Heaven?

Basically you understanding is a contradiction of what is taught about the angels and God Will in Heaven.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Jude 1:
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Context here is really important

What assumptions are you making here?

2 Pet 2:
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Again, what assumptions are you making here?

The word Angels simply means messengers - lets assume for the moment the context is divine messengers...you have the following issues to overcome

The wages of sin is death." (Rom. 6:23).
If divine angels were sinners, then they would die.
But Jesus said angels do not die. (Luke 20:36).
Therefore, the angels which sinned were human, not divine angels.

I'll leave the rest of your post for now as these above four points need your attention.

Not only is the Psalmist wrong about Divine Angels always doing God's Pleasure, you also have a God who has no control of his realm. Further to this you have a God who is a hypocrite Who gives a decree and sentence of death to human but allows rebel angels to roam at will.

Go back and re-look at Jude & 2 Peter and study the context...come back when you have insight.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Heb 1 "ALL God's angels". Not Satan's angels. Michael is God's angel. He worships Jesus!

I also take from this you believe Satan to be a god who has his own angels? So not One God now but two?

 

[face2face]

Gibberish

The Gibberish you spoke of Stumpmaster has developed into a conundrum for many here who are unable to reconcile the Word of God. Error will always result in contradiction and none more than the erroneous belief in rebel angels.

 

[MA2444]

...a true assessment of His Angels?

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

I'm consistently hearing in this forum of fallen angels which clearly is a contraction to the above truth.

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored, 6:10 may your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven Mt 6:9–10.

Is His Will always done in Heaven?

So do His Angels "always" do His Pleasure?
Is His Will "always" done in Heaven?

Many of you reading this would say NO! God is not in control of His own House; the Divine Nature being pure, perfect and Holy can sin

Carry through the logic...you wrestle for 70 odd years in the flesh suffering with temptation and sin only to find you will sin as a divine being

Have you got the whole fallen angel doctrine entirely wrong?

99% of this forum are in this position of error!

99% of this forum do not know the God of Psalm 103:20-21 & Matthew 6:9-10

Proceed...

F2F

Forgive me Brother, but I do think that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read before.

 

[MA2444]

Proof text please

Nice try my friend! You put forth a premise without any proof texts of your own! Got anything else for your proof? Or just that you have misunderstood What you read?

 

[face2face]

Forgive me Brother, but I do think that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read before.

Your forgiven...the load of crap you infer is causing some a little grief...replies like this are often an admission of ones inability to answer.
Taken is giving it a go but struggling with evidence...Jack has arrived at a place which find his beliefs contradicting the Psalmist, Christ himself and the Apostles.

If the challenge is too great move on!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Nice try my friend! You put forth a premise without any proof texts of your own!

You didnt read the OP?

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored, 6:10 may your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven Mt 6:9–10.

Maybe you don't understand what the above text are proving?

I do

 

[Taken]

Proof text please

Proof text please

I've shown you via two text that all Angels obey God commands and do His Pleasure.
I've also shown you God's Will is always done in Heaven which is not the case on earth. A promised change is coming!

F2F

God Commands…
Angels…ManKind…CAN DO OR NOT!

God is ALL-KNOwING.
God Knows who WILL, who WILL NOT obey.

Angels / ManKIND “KNOWS” IFthey will obey or not…AT THE MOMENT they ACT to obey or ACT to defy.

God DOES NOT DECIDE angels or manKinfds “WILL”….it CHOICES….He simply KNOWS long before the angel or man himself KNOWS.

God DOES NOT PREVENT / STOP an angel or man from EXERCISING his FREEWILL CHOICE.

God has REVEALED the “consequences”…
For an angel, For a man…
Whether they CHOOSE to obey or CHOOSE to defy.

IF and WHEN “consequences” ARE “administered”, BY GOD, to an angel or man…
THE angel…THE man…WILL be “subject to” Gods WILL regarding the “consequence”…

IF the angel is SENT, CAST, DIRECTLY ORDERED…. YES, the angel SHALL,, MUST OBEY …
.Which is plainly revealed in the scriptures YOU REFERENCE

Same applies to a man who is SENT, WHOSE LAST BREATH is Leaving His body, etc….
YES, the man SHALL, MUST OBEY
** Which was plainly explained to YOU…
When a man and an angel MUST comply with Gods WILL…and WHEN a man and an angel CAN exercise their own FREEWILL.
TWO DIFFERENT scenarios.
#1 is an angel / man MAKING his freewill choice.
#2 is God FORCING the Consequence of their Choice.

Satan had a conversation with Jesus…Satan “offered” all land visible to Jesus, ‘IF” Jesus would meet Satan’s request….to worship “Satan”.
(Uh per Jesus’ WISDOM, full well knowing, Satan’s trickery…(ie the land Satan was offering Jesus…duh…did not belong to Satan, to use as a bartering, bargaining chip…and via Jesus’ WISDOM and Authority, ignored Satan’s evil trickery….and simply said…ONLY God is to be Worshiped…and GET THEE BEHIND ME…(Jesus).

When Satan was “CAST/ Sent to Earth”…he had NO OPTION to remain IN Heaven…Gods WILL WAS EFFECTED….FOR Satan’s “Consequence” of THINKING IN HIS HEART, he could RISE ABOVE God”…which was and is a LIE. A LIE, which “spiritually KILLED Gods truth,” (And WHY Satan IS CALLED a MURDERER).

Angels exercised their FREEWILL…did as THEY CHOSE…mated with human females…
God DIDN’t STOP THEM.
God FORCED “HIS WILL” / “HIS CONSEQUENCE” UPON THEM, and cast them from the face of the. Earth, DOWN to the depths IN the Earth, and PREVENTS THEM from RETURNING to the face of the Earth…

FREEWILL of angels and manKIND is not circumvented….UNTIL GOD exacts their Consequence….according to GODS WORD.
(Which is plainly REVEALED beforehand for every angel and every man to hear, learn, know….BEFORE they exercise their FREEWILL.)

Can’t understand for you, the context of which scriptures applies.

God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MA2444]

Your forgiven...the load of crap you infer is causing some a little grief...replies like this are often an admission of ones inability to answer.

Or we could say I just dont think like you do! You must consider one thing very much so, ok? A lot of us Christians here on this board (most of us in fact) seem to agree very much of the tme on a wide array of doctrinal issues.
I knw, so waht? What does that mean?
I'll tell you. It is an indication that the Holy Spirit of God is alive and well and teaching all His children...all the same things. I wonder why Holy Spirit does that? There is one truth little Brother. If there were any truth to what you put forth in your op...I would heard even a hint of it already! I have not.

So how is it that as you imply, that the Holy Spirit is teaching you more truth than anyone else? You trying to be some sort of prophet or teacher to us?

I believe that your peoblem is...correct me where I'm wrong, you may be one of those who are...as they say, have eyes but can not see.

It should be immediately obvious to you that you may not have all of your ducks in a row due to the amount of criticism your premise is bringing you? So I would suggest that you pray about these things and ask for the Holy Spirit to show you the truth.

We're all on the same path to the Lord Brother. Deoending on when you began to walk on the path depends where you are others are surely ahead of you on the path, others are behind you. So will you be taking consideration of that with your own Brothers & Sisters here as the thread progresses? Or wil you get frustrated and begin speaking disparagingly to your audience? Please be cool about it even if we disagree.

I'm guessing that you are young. Young in the faith, young on the earth. I remember the age when I knew everything! I'm almost 62 now, and let me tell you, you find out different later on! Do you read your bible prayerfully? Do you ask, Lord what does that mean? Or do you try to put it together with your intellect?

 

[MA2444]

You didnt read the OP?

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored, 6:10 may your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven Mt 6:9–10.

Maybe you don't understand what the above text are proving?

I do

I sure did read the OP.

Maybe you should explain to me how those passages from scripture support your premise?

Because, you're right. I dont see the nexus, lol! So I must not understand it like you do!
By all means Brother, Explain!

 

[MA2444]

So do His Angels "always" do His Pleasure?
Is His Will "always" done in Heaven?

Many of you reading this would say NO! God is not in control of His own House; the Divine Nature being pure, perfect and Holy can sin

Carry through the logic...you wrestle for 70 odd years in the flesh suffering with temptation and sin only to find you will sin as a divine being

Have you got the whole fallen angel doctrine entirely wrong?

99% of this forum are in this position of error!

99% of this forum do not know the God of Psalm 103:20-21 & Matthew 6:9-10

Proceed...

Here's your OP.

Now maybe you can explain to my poor intellect (sic) how the passages in Psalms that you posted and Matthew are talking about fallen angels. That's preposterous!

It's talking about God's Angels. Fallen Angels are not God's Angels any more. They work for someone else now because they rebelled against God.

So I'm going to sin as a transformed divine being?! Sorry bro but that's very laughable. Maybe if I walked in there with your brain. Lol.

You said 99% of the people have no clue. 99% of the forum have no clue.

And you do? (How old are you?)

But, go on, explain yourself to us bunch of hillbillies then! Edumacate us bub.

 

[face2face]

God Commands…
Angels…ManKind…CAN DO OR NOT!

No Scripture is telling!

God is ALL-KNOwING.
God Knows who WILL, who WILL NOT obey.

Angels / ManKIND “KNOWS” IFthey will obey or not…AT THE MOMENT they ACT to obey or ACT to defy.

God DOES NOT DECIDE angels or manKinfds “WILL”….it CHOICES….He simply KNOWS long before the angel or man himself KNOWS.

God DOES NOT PREVENT / STOP an angel or man from EXERCISING his FREEWILL CHOICE.

God has REVEALED the “consequences”…
For an angel, For a man…
Whether they CHOOSE to obey or CHOOSE to defy.

IF and WHEN “consequences” ARE “administered”, BY GOD, to an angel or man…
THE angel…THE man…WILL be “subject to” Gods WILL regarding the “consequence”…

IF the angel is SENT, CAST, DIRECTLY ORDERED…. YES, the angel SHALL,, MUST OBEY …
.Which is plainly revealed in the scriptures YOU REFERENCE

Same applies to a man who is SENT, WHOSE LAST BREATH is Leaving His body, etc….
YES, the man SHALL, MUST OBEY
** Which was plainly explained to YOU…
When a man and an angel MUST comply with Gods WILL…and WHEN a man and an angel CAN exercise their own FREEWILL.
TWO DIFFERENT scenarios.
#1 is an angel / man MAKING his freewill choice.
#2 is God FORCING the Consequence of their Choice.

Satan had a conversation with Jesus…Satan “offered” all land visible to Jesus, ‘IF” Jesus would meet Satan’s request….to worship “Satan”.
(Uh per Jesus’ WISDOM, full well knowing, Satan’s trickery…(ie the land Satan was offering Jesus…duh…did not belong to Satan, to use as a bartering, bargaining chip…and via Jesus’ WISDOM and Authority, ignored Satan’s evil trickery….and simply said…ONLY God is to be Worshiped…and GET THEE BEHIND ME…(Jesus).

When Satan was “CAST/ Sent to Earth”…he had NO OPTION to remain IN Heaven…Gods WILL WAS EFFECTED….FOR Satan’s “Consequence” of THINKING IN HIS HEART, he could RISE ABOVE God”…which was and is a LIE. A LIE, which “spiritually KILLED Gods truth,” (And WHY Satan IS CALLED a MURDERER).

Angels exercised their FREEWILL…did as THEY CHOSE…mated with human females…
God DIDN’t STOP THEM.
God FORCED “HIS WILL” / “HIS CONSEQUENCE” UPON THEM, and cast them from the face of the. Earth, DOWN to the depths IN the Earth, and PREVENTS THEM from RETURNING to the face of the Earth…

FREEWILL of angels and manKIND is not circumvented….UNTIL GOD exacts their Consequence….according to GODS WORD.
(Which is plainly REVEALED beforehand for every angel and every man to hear, learn, know….BEFORE they exercise their FREEWILL.)

Can’t understand for you, the context of which scriptures applies.

God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

All those words and not a single supporting quote.
It's tough Taken to prove what is error.

For now the Psalmist and Christ are correct - Angels (Divine) always follow Gods commands
The promise of Divine Nature removes any and all possibility of sin and death.

Things are not as they appear for Taken.

F2F

 

[MA2444]

All those words an not a single supporting quote.
It's tough Taken to prove was is error.

For now the Psalmist and Christ are correct - Angels (Divine) always follow Gods commands
The promise of Divine Nature removes any and all possibility of sin and death.

Things are not as they appear for Taken.

Wow Brother. Did you just say that? Is that the regard you give to other brothers & sisters in Christ. You didnt even give him a real answer. All you're doing is looking for a place to talk down on people? Because you have not substantiated anything you have said.

Grow up.

You better go pray about this boy. You should either stick to the topic and discuss like a man, or excuse yourself from the embarassment that you bring to yourself with your words.

 

[face2face]

I sure did read the OP.

Maybe you should explain to me how those passages from scripture support your premise?

Because, you're right. I dont see the nexus, lol! So I must not understand it like you do!
By all means Brother, Explain!

Well lets start with the Lord's words in Matthew.

Why would Christ pray for God's will to be done on earth (location of sin) as IT IS done in Heaven (Place of Holiness & Purity)?

Is James 1:17 wrong? To be frank MA2444, I can see you haven't thought this through, so why not take some time, weeks if need be and come back?

If you believe in rebel angels therefore you must believe that Divine nature can sin and that God's Will is not done in Heaven or that every good and perfect gift comes from above.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Wow Brother. Did you just say that? Is that the regard you give to other brothers & sisters in Christ. You didnt even give him a real answer. All you're doing is looking for a place to talk down on people? Because you have not substantiated anything you have said.

Grow up.

You better go pray about this boy. You should either stick to the topic and discuss like a man, or excuse yourself from the embarassment that you bring to yourself with your words.

I can see you like to overreact and divert from the subject at hand.
Stay focused!
It's a disciplined mind which seeks out truth - the writer of the proverbs tells you its the honour of Kings.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Here's your OP.

Now maybe you can explain to my poor intellect (sic) how the passages in Psalms that you posted and Matthew are talking about fallen angels. That's preposterous!

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

As was stated the Pslamist understood Angels to "always" obey God commands however YOU dont believe as the Psalmist did. You believe some angels rebelled and sinned.

There are many more verses we can look at MA2444 but you seem to be grappling with this one.

Here I'll give you the Translation note from the NET to assist you

"Heb “[you] mighty ones of strength, doers of his word, by listening to the voice of his word.”

The writer understood ALL angels are doers of Gods Word and ALL listen to Him....but clearly you do not believe this.

It's talking about God's Angels. Fallen Angels are not God's Angels any more.

They work for someone else now because they rebelled against God.

Yes thats what we are talking about - you don't have any evidence for this belief.

So I'm going to sin as a transformed divine being?! Sorry bro but that's very laughable. Maybe if I walked in there with your brain. Lol.

Correct, you beleive your reward is divine nature / eternal life BUT you also beleive divine beings with divine nature can sin.

You would need to be an idiot to not see the contraction...are you an idiot (Bible Definition!)?

You said 99% of the people have no clue. 99% of the forum have no clue.

And you do? (How old are you?)

But, go on, explain yourself to us bunch of hillbillies then! Edumacate us bub.

So far, if you represent some of the 99% including all those here who have participated the stats are with me for the time being.

The facts speak for themselves

F2F

 

[face2face]

This thread is a telling example of what happens when Christians assume they have a well established belief but find they are unable to prove it with the Inspired writ.

Its a warning

F2F

 

[MA2444]

I can see you like to overreact and divert from the subject at hand.
Stay focused!
It's a disciplined mind which seeks out truth - the writer of the proverbs tells you its the honour of Kings.
F2F

I'm sorry little Brother! I was hanging out waiting to see if you actually start explaining your 1% self who has all this secret knowledge that we dont have yet? I'm waiting to be Edified.

well, I'm still waiting...

But it sounds like all your doing is talking crap about people. So your diverting your own thread bub. Explain yourself like you said you can!

I'm still waiting

 

[MA2444]

This thread is a telling example of what happens when Christians assume they have a well established belief but find they are unable to prove it with the Inspired writ.

Its a warning

F2F

You sound like a stoned teenager.