Election, Reprobation, as taught in Church History.

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Having viewed several posts it has become apparent many have no idea on the teaching of these things.
What we believe should be informed by scripture, not what we "feel"" think" or "emotions".
Many resist the biblical teaching by not being familiar with it. Instead they post against false ideas of the teaching.
Here are some historic examples of the actual teaching;
J.P.Boyce....Abstract of Principles;


CHAPTER XXIX: ELECTION. THE words Elect, Election, Foreordination, Chosen, Foreknow, and Foreknowledge occur so frequently in Scripture, that it is allowed by all that the Scriptures teach a doctrine of Election of some kind.
The chief controversy is as to what that doctrine is.

election is: (1.) An act of God, and not the result of the choice of the elect.

(2.) That this choice is one of individuals, and not of classes.

(3.) That it was made without respect to the action of the persons elected.

(4.) By the good pleasure of God.

(5.) According to an eternal purpose.

(6.) That it is an election to salvation and not to outward privileges. To the Scriptures alone must we look for the truth upon this subject. Upon opening them we find that the words
Election and Elect are used in various senses.

1. They signify a choice to office whether by man or God. Luke 6:13. Christ's choice of the twelve Apostles. Acts 1:21-26. The selection of an Apostle in the place of Judas. Acts 9:15. Saul is called a chosen vessel. 1 Pet. 2:6-8. Christ is spoken of as the corner-stone, elect, precious that is laid in Zion.
2. The choice of Israel to their peculiar national privilege of being the chosen or separated people of God; as in Acts 13:17. "The God of this people Israel chose our fathers."

3. It is once used for a choice made of' salvation by an individual. Luke 10:42. "Mary hath chosen the good part which shall not be taken away from her."

4. In a large majority of cases it has reference to the choice to salvation, either in the purpose or act of choice by God.



It is to the doctrine taught in this last class of passages that our inquiries are to be turned.

(1.) Election is an act of God, and not the result of the choice of the Elect. This is not now an inquiry into the reason of Election; but simply into the agent. Does God choose the elect, whether by his own purpose, or because he foresees that they will believe, or for any other reason? Is election an act of God? The fact on this point would appear more clearly if we were to exchange the common word choice or chosen with the equivalent word elect. The following passages are sufficient, though the examples are far more numerous. John 13:18. "I know whom I have chosen." John 15:16. "Ye did not choose me, but I chose you" (not to their offices as apostle, but), "that ye should go and hear fruit." Rom. 8:33. "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's chosen ones?" Rom. 9:15. "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy." Eph. 1:4. "Even as he chose us in him." Eph. 1:11. "Having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will." 2 Thess. 2:13. "God chose you from the beginning unto salvation."

2. This choice is one of individuals and not of classes. This position needs to be explained. It is not denied that the Elect are to be true believers, and that true believers are the Elect. The character of the Elect does not, therefore, enter into this question. The issue is simply, does God choose all who shall believe, and are they, as such, his elect? or, does he choose his elect, and will they, as such, believe? Is belief the result of God's election, or is God's election the result of man's faith? Acts 13:48. "As many as were ordained to eternal life believed." This is a historical statement made subsequent to the event, not by man's knowledge but by inspiration. Eph. 1:4, 5. "Even as he chose us in him, . . . having foreordained us unto adoption as sons." 2 Thess. 2:13. "But we are bound to give thanks to God alway for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." Here the choice is made to salvation, and the means to salvation, sanctification and faith, are indicated; no prerequisite or means being stated as to Election. It is not as believers that they are elected; but as elected, that they are saved. Rom. 8:29. "Whom he foreknew he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son." The foreknowledge here is of persons, not of personal acts, not of those whose faith he foreknew, nor, as would be essential to their theory, is it of the class of believers as such. The Arminian theory would require the substitution of the words "as believers" or "you as believers" instead of those which are used. It is not, therefore, to the class of believers, but to individuals that election refers. But, it may be asked, does it not refer to them in that character? Did not God choose those whose faith he for-saw?

(3.) The third point then to be proved is, that it was not because of any act or merit of theirs, but irrespective of anything but his own good pleasure, that this Election was made. This is merely a negative form of the same fact stated by the next point affirmatively. It is better, therefore, to unite this with the succeeding one, which is,

(4.) That the election is made through the mere good pleasure of God. Some of the passages simply affirm a choice by God's Sovereign will; others, while asserting this, also deny merit in those elected; and still others represent the fact of sovereignty by asserting a choice of such persons as would not ordinarily be chosen.

 

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pt2.
The following are some of the passages which prove these points.

(a.) Such as simply assert sovereign will. Such are Matt. 24:40-41 and Luke 17:33-36. These declare the sovereign choice of God by showing such choice exercised as to persons in the same situation, so that the one shall be taken and the other left; "two men on one bed;" "two women grinding at the mill;" "two men shall be in the field;" one of each shall be taken and the other left. John 3:3-8. Regeneration is here spoken of as essential to entrance into the kingdom of God. This precedes any act on which election is said by any to depend. Yet the sovereignty of God in this is declared in verse 8. "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knoweth not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth; so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 6:37, 39, 44, 64, 65. "All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me. . . . This is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which be hath given me I should lose nothing. . . . No man can come to me except the Father which sent me draw him. . . . Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him. And he said, for this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father." John 15:16. "Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit." The object to be attained cannot be the cause. John 17:2. "As thou gavest him authority over all flesh, that whatsoever thou hast given him to them he should give eternal life."

See also verses 6-12. Acts 22:14. Ananias says to Paul, "The God of our fathers hath appointed thee to know his will."

Eph. 1:5. In the fourth verse having referred to God's choice of us before the foundation of the world, he says in this fifth, "Having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace." In verse 11 we are said to be predestinated to our inheritance "according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will." James 1:18. "Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth."

(b.) Such as deny merit in the persons elected as well as assert the sovereign choice of God. Ezek. 36:32. In this passage, after describing the blessings connected with the new dispensation, and the gift of the Spirit and the new heart which he would give them--gifts which the Calvinistic theory regards as the result of election; but which the Arminian maintains to be its cause, God adds, "Not for your sakes do I this, saith the LORD GOD, be it known unto you; be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel." John 1:11-18. "He came unto his own, and they that were his own received him not. But, as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, even to them that believe on his name; which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

In Rom. 9:11-16. Election is illustrated by the case of the twins; "the children being not yet born, neither having done anything, good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. . . . So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy." Rom. 11:5-6. "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. But if it is by grace, it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace."

(c.) Such as so describe the persons chosen as to imply this. Matt. 11:25, 26. "At that season Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding and didst reveal them unto babes; yea Father, for so it was well pleasing in thy sight." Luke 4:25-27.

Christ illustrates this sovereignty of God by mentioning that many widows had been in Israel, yet had only a heathen widow been blessed; and again many lepers, and yet only a heathen leper cured. "Of a truth I say unto you, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah . . . and unto none of them was Elijah sent, but only to Sarephath in the land of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow. And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian." Acts 26:12-23. Paul's description of his personal condition at his conversion shows that God chose him not for his merits but from his own good pleasure. 1 Cor. 1:26-30. "For behold your calling, brethren, how that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called; but God chose the foolish things of the world that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong; and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea, and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are, that no flesh should glory before God. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, etc." Gal. 1:15, 16. Paul says, "When it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me even from my mother's womb, and called me through his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach, etc." Ephesians 2:1-13. The description of the condition of those who were dead in trespasses and sins, and in that state were quickened, proves that the quickening and salvation was due to no merit of their own. The texts thus exhibited under these three classes prove conclusively that not on account of their own merits, but because of the good pleasure of God, does he choose men. They have been presented at some length, because this is after all the point upon which all that is important in this controversy turns. For, although other matters are equally essential to the doctrine, the whole opposition arises from an unwillingness on the part of man to recognize the sovereignty of God, and to ascribe salvation entirely to grace. This proof, however, has been by no means exhausted, the attempt having been to select some only of the numerous passages, and mainly such as from their conciseness allow of presentation in full. Let the Scriptures be read with reference to this doctrine and every passage marked which indicates God's dealing with men as an absolute sovereign, and also every declaration which ascribes Election or the fruits of it to his choice and not to the will or acts of men, and every illustration afforded that this is God's usual method, and it will appear that scarcely any book of Scripture will fail to furnish testimony to the fact that in the acts of grace, no less than those of providence, God "doeth according to his will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth." Dan. 4:3-5.

(5.) Another important fact to be shown is the eternity of Election in opposition to the idea that it was in time. The proof on this point is two-fold.
There are (a) those passages which show that the Election took place before existence in this world or before the world began, and
(b) those which actually declare that it was eternal. Between the two classes of passages there is really, however, very little difference, as, from the nature of the case, what took place before time must have been in Eternity, and besides, the object of proof of an eternal Election is simply to show that it was not dependent on human action, but simply on the will of God.
(a) Those which show that the election took place before man's existence, or before the world began. Jer. 1:5. "Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee." Matt. 25:34. "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the found

 

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pt3.
Matt. 25:34. "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

Eph. 1:4. "Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world."

2 Thess. 2:13. "But we are bound to give thanks to God alway for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

2 Tim. 1:9. "Who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal."

Compare also the language used as to the names written in the Lamb's book of life. Rev. 13:8. "And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him (that is the beast), every one whose name hath not been written in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain from the foundation of the world."

Rev. 17:8. "And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast how that he was, and is not, and shall come." Referring to the adherents of the Lamb as persons "with him," it is said in verse 14, "They . . . that are with him called and chosen and faithful."

Rev. 21:27. "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

(b) The passages which distinctly declare that this, which may be thus inferred to have been an eternal Election, is really such. 1 Cor. 2:7. "Even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory."

Eph. 3:11. "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord." 6. It remains to be proved that this Election is one to salvation, and not to mere external privileges. Jeremiah 31:31-34: Verse 31. Tells of a day when a new covenant shall be made.

Verse 32. Says that this shall not be like that made with their fathers (not one of external privileges). Verse 33. But of this sort, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their hearts will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." Verse 34. "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more."

Speaking again of the restoration of Israel, the same prophet adds a like passage in Chap. 32:37-40. A similar passage is to be found in Ezekiel 36:24-27. John 10:16. "Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and they shall become one flock, one shepherd." John 10:26. "Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep." Verse 27. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." Rom. 8:28-30. "We know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose." Paul now proceeds to tell who these are. "For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." This passage shows that foreknowledge, foreordination to holiness, calling, justification, and a state of glory are inseparably connected, and hence that the election, from which they proceed, is to salvation. Eph. 1:4-9. This passage speaks of our being chosen before the foundation of the world, "that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved: in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him."

2 Thess. 2:13. After referring to others who were to have the same outward privileges, but upon whom God would send strong delusion, the Apostle says in this verse, "For we are bound to give thanks to God alway for you, brethren, beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation," &c

1 Peter 6:10. "The God of all grace who called you unto his eternal glory in Christ," &c. Here the Apostle is speaking of that effectual calling, which is the result of Election, and tells us that it is a call unto eternal glory.

 

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1 Timothy 2:4

God==“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
Why not accept the gift of God?

 

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CHAPTER XXX: REPROBATION THE doctrine of Election is intimately associated with and involves that of Reprobation. The latter has met with even greater opposition, and misconstructions of what the orthodox teach on this subject have been even more numerous.

The Scriptural statements as to Reprobation are that God, in eternity, when he elected some, did likewise not elect others; that as resulting from this non-election, but not as efficiently caused by it, he passes by these in the bestowment of the special favours shown to the Elect, and, as in like manner yet further resulting, condemns men, because of sin to everlasting destruction, and while they are in the state of sin and condemnation, he effects or permits the hardening of their heart, so that his truth is not appreciated, but actually rejected. According to this statement there are four points involved in the decrees as to Reprobation:
1. The decree not to elect.

2. The decree to pass by in bestowing divine grace.

3. To condemn for sins committed.

4. To harden against the truth all or some persons, already sinners, and to confirm them in sin.


In considering this doctrine we are met by the difficulty arising from the want of knowledge of God's purpose in action. It may he questioned whether we can arrive at this at all; yet to understand this subject fully, we must know that purpose. If, therefore, we cannot learn it, we see with what propriety we must submit simply to accept what God says. A careful examination of the four points indicated will show that the third and fourth of them have necessary reference to sinners, and that the other two have not. These are only thus connected, because God, in carrying out his purpose, has chosen to do it by the creation of man, and by permitting him to fall. This may be shown by supposing God to have some great object in view to be accomplished by beings selected from those to remain holy, as through a part of the angelic hosts. He selects some as the ones through whom he will accomplish his purpose; he rejects the others as not choosing so to use them. He gives to the former special grace to fit them for their work or to remove from them any imperfection for it. His plan not having required that they be permitted to fall, the act of rejection and refusal to add the special grace given to others constitutes in this case all of Reprobation. The purpose of God as to man, on the other hand, affected a fallen race, and hence the other two points, in accordance with his determination to permit man to fall, are associated with and made a part of the decree of Reprobation, with which otherwise they would have no necessary connection. The fact that God has permitted man to fall is undoubted. It is beyond our power to show how it is consistent with his justice and mercy. That it is so should be acknowledged by all, because God has done it. In like manner must we deal with any result that flows from any doctrine in connection with that purpose. If it was right for God to permit man to fall, in order to carry out his purpose, it is right to condemn him for his sin. But the connection of condemnation for sin thus permitted with rejection from the number of those through whom that purpose is effected, extends no farther than that, from the circumstances of the case, the rejected in one part of the decree become the condemned in another. The relation borne by these two parts of the decree will be better seen by the following table showing what is done on the one side for the Elect, and on the other for the rejected.

 

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1 Timothy 2:4

God==“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”

yes,,,from every tribe kindred and tongue. All men, not Jews only.
God has never planned to save everyone,never.

 

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Yes!! 1 Timothy 2:4

God==“Who wants all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
Why not accept the gift of God? But your choice accept or reject!

 

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Yes!! 1 Timothy 2:4

God==“Who wants all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
Why not accept the gift of God? But your choice accept or reject!

No it is not. Man will not seek God apart from the drawing of the Spirit.
Why not interact with the verses presented and if you think they are wrong, then offer your correction if you have any.

 

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Matt. 25:34. "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the found

As this is a plural "you", it does not distinguish between a kingdom prepared for this group of people, or if prepared for each of these people individually.

Jer. 1:5. "Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee."

Using the individual to define the whole? I'd rather use a more general statement. John the Baptist also. Sampson. If this was uniform to all, why mention it?

I could go through these all point by point. I don't know your understanding of predestination, which impacts this. Do you agree point by point with everything you've copied above?

Much love!

 

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"marks,

[As this is a plural "you", it does not distinguish between a kingdom prepared for this group of people, or if prepared for each of these people individually.

I could go through these all point by point. I don't know your understanding of predestination, which impacts this. Do you agree point by point with everything you've copied above?]

I have just started to expose some historic teaching. I am shorting some portions to get at the main teachings as the objections will come fast and furious before the people consider what has been held for years as biblical truth.

Predestination is primarily used speaking of the elect being predestined to be conformed to the Image of Christ
the golden chain of Romans 8;29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

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I have just started to expose some historic teaching. I am shorting some portions to get at the main teachings as the objections will come fast and furious before the people consider what has been held for years as biblical truth.

OK, cool.

Just to mention . . . whatever objections I may offer, have been considered.

Much love!

 

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Predestination is primarily used speaking of the elect being predestined to be conformed to the Image of Christ
the golden chain of Romans 8;29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Sounds good!

I've never heard that called "the golden chain". I'm curious . . . glorified, has this happened, or is yet to happen?

Much love!

 

[Truman]

He drew me, He found me, I remember Him before I was in the womb; I'll leave the rest of it up to you guys! Lol

 

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Why not interact with the verses presented and if you think they are wrong, then offer your correction if you have any.

You are posting quite a few references only, and many short quotes from the Bible, absent their context. It makes responding very time consuming.

Much love!

 

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OK, cool.

Just to mention . . . whatever objections I may offer, have been considered.

Much love!

Sure thing...Just quote from the offered material with a question on a specific point.
When I post those portions I will stand by 100% I will try to indicate that.
I am trying to avoid food for thought...not infallible truth.
If someone does not agree that is fine, but I want them to be able to show in detail why the offered material is being questioned, not just knee-jerk reactions, strawmen, and caricatures that I have been reading.
I think some have never been exposed to truth.

 

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Sounds good!

I've never heard that called "the golden chain". I'm curious . . . glorified, has this happened, or is yet to happen?

Much love!

If you google the term it has been used to describe the 5 links of this unbreakable chain. We are not glorified yet, but for a blood-bought Child of God that is part of our inheritance with the saints in love.
29
1]For whom he did foreknow,

2] he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

3]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:

4]and whom he called, them he also justified:

5]and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The Golden Chain of Salvation

servantsofgrace.org/the-golden-chain-of-salvation/

 

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More concerning reprobation/ preterition;
This preliminary statement will prepare the way for the Scriptural proof of the points indicated.
I. The decree to reject some.
1. This is involved in the doctrine of Election. The choice of some and not of the whole, involves the non-election and thus the rejection of others.
2. But it is plainly taught in Scripture:

(1.) In such passages as declare salvation not to be attained because God has not given the means. These will be presented under the next general head.

(2.) In such as declare salvation not to be attained because men are not of the Elect, as John 6:65. "No man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father." John 10:26. "Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep." 1 Cor. 1:26. "For behold your calling, brethren, how that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: but God chose, etc."

(3.) In all such passages as declare the preordination, or appointment by God of these persons either to condemnation or destruction. Though not the direct result of this decree so as to be efficiently caused by it, these things yet prove the rejection of some who, under the circumstances thus accidentally arising, are thus preordained. 1 Peter 2:8. "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence; for they stumble at the word, being disobedient; whereunto also they were appointed." Jude 4. "There are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old set forth unto this condemnation." 1 Thess. 5:9. In this chapter, the Apostle tells of the evil that in the last day shall come upon certain ones, and then says: "For God appointed us not unto wrath but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

(4.) In the illustrations from the twins, the potter, and the clay in the 9th chapter of Romans.

(5.) In the same chapter the words used are expressive directly of the truth involved. Rom. 9:18. "So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he hardeneth."

(6.) The Apostle was teaching this doctrine in the ninth chapter of Romans and in verses 20 and 21 anticipated and answered the objection of one inquiring, why God should punish those who are thus fulfilling his will, by saying: "Nay, but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, why didst thou make me thus? Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour."

II. The second point of proof is that God passes by some in the bestowment of his special grace. That God does bestow many of the means of grace on many not to be saved is admitted; but what needs to be shown is that there are special effective means which distinguish the Elect, and which are not bestowed on others.

The language of Scripture on this point is twofold. There are passages which simply speak of the withholding of privileges, and others which seem to go beyond this and assert a positive influence exerted to keep men from the truth. The meaning of this latter class of passages will be examined when we come to speak of the fourth point. At present they are presented as though they meant no more than the mere neglect to bestow these spiritual advantages. Deut. 29:4. "The Lord hath not given you an heart to know, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day." Job. 17:4. "For thou hast hid their heart from understanding, therefore shalt thou not exalt them." 1 Sam. 2:25. After Eli had exhorted his sons to refrain from making the people of the Lord transgress, it is said, "Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the Lord would slay them." Isaiah 6: 9. "Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not."

 

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pt2.
Rom. 11:7, 8. "That which Israel seeketh for that he obtained not, but the election obtained it, and the rest were hardened according as it is written, God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this very day." Matt. 13:11-15. "Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have abundance; but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that which he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables, because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And unto them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, by hearing ye shall hear, and shall in nowise understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall in nowise perceive. For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest haply they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should turn again, and I should heal them."

The parallel to the first part is Luke 8:10, and to the last Mark 4:12.

Similar passages also are in John 12:39, 40 and Acts 28:25-27. 2 Cor. 3:15. "But unto this day, whensoever Moses is read, a veil lieth upon their heart," These texts will suffice when it is remembered that to the plain declarations here made, may be added the proof afforded by all those passages which, teaching that God bestows on the elect alone salvation, with such attendant blessings as without fail lead to it, show that these blessings are also withheld from the non-elect. At present it is assumed that this is done simply as an act of withholding. What is meant by this will be shown hereafter. The question has been raised as to the two points considered above, whether the decree which has respect to them is positive or negative. By a positive decree is meant one which involves an actual direct exercise of the will of God. A negative decree is one in which the effect purposed flows as the result of the actual exercise of the will on something else. The answer to this question depends upon the nature of the union of the different parts of the decree of reprobation.

By some theologians all four of the points involved in the decree are included in one and by Reprobation they mean the actual preordination to damnation of certain persons, just as effectively as the preordination of others to salvation by Election.

Others conceiving this to be a false statement have separated the first and second point from the third and fourth, uniting them together, however, as one, and giving to it the name of Preterition.

The great difficulty which these had to encounter, arose from the fact that while it is true that the mere neglect to bestow certain blessings on some, may take place without their being conceived of as in the mind, and may, therefore, be a mere negative act, the choice of some so necessarily involves the rejection of others as to require that rejection to accompany the act of choice.

Rejection must, therefore, have accompanied Election. In the very fact that some were chosen, was involved the rejection of others. [But even here it is not to be overlooked that rejection was not from God's favour, not from salvation, not from hope of mercy. Rejection has nothing to do with any of these. The loss of these results from sin].

But the intimate connection between chosen and not chosen does not exist in the bestowment of gifts and graces. These were conferred on those chosen, and not conferred on those not chosen.

Hence no positive act of God occurs as to those not chosen.


Consequently it is better to divide this part of the decree and regard Rejection as a positive act, and Preterition in bestowing grace as a negative one. From the first and second, the third and fourth points result consequentially but not effectively. This has been before shown. They do not result from these, so as to be their consequences, but they are actually caused only by the sin of man and are causally related only to it. It is neither as an effect of Election or Rejection or of Preterition that man has fallen, or sins, or is condemned, or will be destroyed. The simple effect is that he is not rescued, and consequently is left where he would have been without these acts. They do not lead to destruction.
They simply do not rescue from it.
III. The third point needs no proof at present. The condemnation for the sins man commits is too plainly taught in the word of God. From this condemnation the Elect are rescued by special grace,
the Rejected are left liable to it and consequently suffer from it. This decree of God is positive, involving especially an act of God's will in reference to the sin that is to be punished.

 

[Iconoclast]

marks

[You are posting quite a few references only, and many short quotes from the Bible, absent their context. It makes responding very time consuming.]

Yes, for sure...but to come to truth we need to do the groundwork. There are no shortcuts. The reader as time permits can examine the offered verses and make comments on them. I am trying to put out a Buffet of info... some will learn from it, many will not read anything more than two sentences. If a person is lazy they will just continue to offer the same strawmen.
I am offering these links trying to challenge those who think their posts somehow bypass these sections, or the study of many of God's gifted teachers.

 

[Iconoclast]

He drew me, He found me, I remember Him before I was in the womb; I'll leave the rest of it up to you guys! Lol

Hello TL,
psalm139
13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

This is more than enough to praise God for.