'The magician's Nephew' the first book in the Narnia series, has a beautiful account of Aslan singing Narnia into existence which always makes me think of Jesus, the Word, creating the heavens and the Earth by speaking them into being.
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@Hepzibah My position was not as you state.
I allowed both versions of the creed given that the mods ban discussion on the trinity.
I think it better to honour their position and gracefully withdraw from pressing a point beyond the bounds of what is allowed here.
You position is well put and we should leave it at that.
I allowed both versions of the creed given that the mods ban discussion on the trinity.
I think it better to honour their position and gracefully withdraw from pressing a point beyond the bounds of what is allowed here.
You position is well put and we should leave it at that.
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Well if you think that is an issue for you, my Theological and Christological positions place me in the jail house for life. I'm a kind of biblical unitarian/ Christadelphian type. I'm just being silent on this 'issue' of yours and then it is still an edifying thread. Can you just place it on pause, even with this contention, knowing the difference?
I too never had a home Bible, and never well versed or grounded in scripture before I met my lord and saviour @Rita Rita and @Ritajanice RitaJ.
I admit though I actually knew some basic scripture. I was oddly taught by some missionary nuns at St. Joseph's primary school in Levin NZ. Basic, like who created or made the heavens and earth ....nothing too complicated or extensive. We sometimes had a pop-quiz, a morning surprise stand-up and provide the contents of a scripture verse, in front of your peers.
Not until my conversion did I lunge for a Bible and try to eat it all, in one bite, I was on fire! And never really stopped. Some dry spells. Caught up in the affairs of the world and made excuses along the way....in my 40s I became much more focused and serious.
One of the hallmarks that one has the spirit of God and his Son within them, a genuine Christian, is the 'new' thirst for the word of God. A natural person cannot fake this spiritual trait for too long....
He who is truly born from above, has both The Father and The Son(Jesus) in the form of The Holy Spirit with in them. And indeed a thirst begins for the word of God at the beginning, as this is The Lord's doing.
Let me apply some scripture for this subject....having both the spirit of the Son and his Father.
(Rom 8:8) And they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Rom 8:9) " But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. "
(Rom 8:10) " And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is life because of righteousness. "
(Rom 8:11) " But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead shall give life also to your mortal bodies- through His Spirit that dwells in you. "
Forgot one:
Galatians 4:6: “Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, ‘Abba, Father.’”
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I have a thirst for Gods Living word, not understanding in the human intellect,
1 Corinthians 2:14
King James Version
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.we are brought to understanding in the Spirit, which only the Spirit Himself who resides in our spirit can bring us to understand his written word, as Gods written word can only be understood by a child of God as they are led by the Spirit.therefore we are taught by the Spirit to understand the written word in our spirit as the Bible is written in Spirit/ inspired by the Living word of God....pretty amazing stuff!!!
They are spiritual children of God, we were bought for a price, God uses us to Glorify Him and Him only, we started dying to self the moment we became “ Born Again “ it is no longer I that lives, but HE ( Spirit) who lives in me....we are His vessel, to do with us whatever is pleasing to Him.
John 3:6In-Context 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again. '
Galatians 2:20New King James Version (NKJV) I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
We learn to communicate with God via His Spirit, who is our living witness to Gods truth...as we have been Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.....the Spirit liveth and abideth forever in our hearts/ spirit...only he can testify with “ our spirit “ that we are Gods children.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20Amplified Bible (AMP) You were bought with a price [you were actually purchased with the precious blood of Jesus and made His own]. So then, honor and glorify God with your body.
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. New Living Translation For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. English Standard Version For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Berean Standard Bible For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life. Berean Literal Bible For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. |
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Our hearts/ spirit needs to be open to receive the Living word of God, that in itself is an act of God via His Spirit, how would we know how to open our hearts up to receive His word?
Only God via His Spirit can soften our hearts to hear His word...you must be Born Again to hear the word of God....God looks at our hearts...he doesn’t look at intellectual knowledge that saves no one.......” our heart” that is where we need to hear His voice/ word.
His word is spoken in Spirit and truth, therefore needs to be understood in our spirit, intellectual knowledge of scripture saves no one.....it’s very easy to quote scripture......that scripture needs to be understood in our spirit, only the Spirit who resides in our spirit can bring us to that truth.
[1] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Only God via His Spirit can soften our hearts to hear His word...you must be Born Again to hear the word of God....God looks at our hearts...he doesn’t look at intellectual knowledge that saves no one.......” our heart” that is where we need to hear His voice/ word.
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. |
His word is spoken in Spirit and truth, therefore needs to be understood in our spirit, intellectual knowledge of scripture saves no one.....it’s very easy to quote scripture......that scripture needs to be understood in our spirit, only the Spirit who resides in our spirit can bring us to that truth.
[1] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. New Living Translation Their minds are full of darkness; they wander far from the life God gives because they have closed their minds and hardened their hearts against him. English Standard Version They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. Berean Standard Bible They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. Edit to add.only a Born Again can bear the fruit of Jesus....because they have been Born Of The Spirit.....it’s not our spirit that bears the fruit of Jesus, we wouldn’t know how...not until we become Born Again.....then it’s His fruit that we bear, because we have been Born Of The Spirit.....therefore will bear HIS fruit, as the power within us,( Holy Spirit) is the fruit bearer. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control…” Those who are in Christ are distinguished from unbelievers in that they have been gifted with the Holy Spirit, enabling them to bear fruit |
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Concerning His glorification in the earth, He said, “The Spirit shall glorify me” (John 16:14). Just as Jesus had come to reveal and so glorify the Father, so the Holy Spirit has come to reveal and so glorify the Son: (1) “He shall testify of me” (15:26) and (2) “He shall glorify me” (16:14).
The Holy Spirit within me,/ through me .....witnessing the truth of the Father God...He Glorifies the Father etc through me.....He does not glorify Himself, he is the witness of the Father....he witnesses that truth to our heart/ spirit.to a Born Again...we must be Born Again to understand this truth....Born Of The Spirit/ Gods spiritual children.
Context
Living in the Spirit
…7because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the fleshcannot please God. 9You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
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OK can we give this topic a rest...
We have had some great input and established a much more Scriptural appreciation of what the Word of God is.
Give me a couple of days to consolidate topic 2.
Meantime feel free to share about an occasion in which God intervened in some way in your life in the last couple of months.
All testimonies greatly appreciated.
We have had some great input and established a much more Scriptural appreciation of what the Word of God is.
Give me a couple of days to consolidate topic 2.
Meantime feel free to share about an occasion in which God intervened in some way in your life in the last couple of months.
All testimonies greatly appreciated.
Never really thought about this , but yes of course. Truth when conveyed plants seeds , it’s living and active. We know that in Acts the Church grew, so those seeds were waters , established and bloomed. More came to faith.
Sometimes I think it’s easy to forget that our words, when conveying the truth that we hold in our hearts ( as opposed to stone tablets ) are active and can be used.
An image of a garden comes to mind with all the different flowers that grow, all at different times, at different stages. ………..
Part of my prayers this morning was that God would 'water' the seeds that have been sown and nurture and cultivate them.
Pearl: The two Nicene Creeds are in play or 'acceptable' to the best of my knowledge.
The issue seems to be about two versions of the Nicene Creed; the later version made the Holy Spirit seem as part of, or sourced from the person of the Father and the Son, inferior to the Father and Son, and then not actually a stand-alone, completely separate person of the Trinity. I may be completely wrong on this point.
Nicene Creed
The original Nicene Creed is a statement of Christian faith that was first adopted at the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It is a concise summary of the orthodox faith of the early Christian church and is still used in the liturgy of many Christian denominations today.
Also interesting, the original Nicene Creed ends with anathemas against Arian propositions, preceded by the words: “We believe in the Holy Spirit” which terminates the statements of belief. The creed refutes the heresy of the Arian Controversy and was designed to settle the controversy. The Arian doctrine taught that Jesus was not God, but rather a created being. And then I also believe as Arian in this position.
And for this purpose here, in this thread, I do not have an issue as if it's an impediment to learning something new.
Here is the original text of the Nicene Creed (without the Arian rebuke):
"We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father, only-begotten, that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made, both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and for our salvation came down and was incarnate, and was made man, suffered and was crucified, and was buried, and the third day rose again, ascended into heaven, from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
And in the Holy Ghost.
We believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."
Here is the later text of the Nicene Creed:
The later Nicene Creed, also known as the Niceano-Constantinopolitan Creed, was adopted in 381 AD at the Council of Constantinople. It is a revised version of the original Nicene Creed, which was adopted in 325 AD at the Council of Nicaea.
Here is the text of the later Nicene Creed:
"We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds (æons), Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; by whom all things were made, both in heaven and on earth; who for us men and for our salvation came down and was incarnate, and was made man; who was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried, and the third day rose again, according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father; from thence he shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Ghost.
We believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spake by the prophets.
And we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."
This creed is a statement of the Christian faith and is still used today in many Christian denominations, including Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Anglican, and Lutheran churches.
And then to show a more complete picture of the Creeds in play at that time in history, here's the even later Athanasian Creed.
Athanasian Creed
The Athanasian Creed is a Christian creed that was written in the 5th century AD. It is named after Athanasius, a bishop who was a strong defender of the doctrine of the Trinity. The creed is a statement of faith that was meant to be is similar to the Apostles’ Creed, but it is more detailed and includes anathemas (condemnations) against those who disagree with its teachings. I beg to differ that this Creed is remotely close to the Apostles' Creed.
Here is the text of the Athanasian Creed:
“Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal… And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another… So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another… He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.”
Apostles’ Creed - the earliest written Creed
The Apostles’ Creed is a statement of faith believed to have been written in the 2nd century AD, although the exact authorship is unknown. The creed is a summary of the central teachings of Christianity and is often recited during baptismal services.
Here is the text of the Apostles’ Creed:
“I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, Born of the Virgin Mary, Suffered under Pontius Pilate, Was crucified, dead, and buried: He descended into hell; The third day he rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost; The holy Catholic(k) Church; The communion of saints; The forgiveness of sins; The resurrection of the body; And the life everlasting. Amen.”
And personally I have nothing to do with any of these Creeds, although the earliest, the Apostles Creed come much closer to my liking. If they had only kept it simple and believed that the Holy Spirit is actually the Father God, it is his own Spirit. Then it would be bang on.
I wish we would just followed the simple and more meaningful Creed of Jesus Christ as his commandments for us to follow. And basically is is quotes by him in Mark's Gospel.
“One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?” “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
— Mark 12:29-31
Blessings in Christ Jesus Rita. I see these forums as being like a garden. There are plants in various stages of development as well as a few trees. Least we not forget, there are also the weeds.
Matthew 13:24-43
New International Version
The Parable of the Weeds
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast
31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field.32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”
33 He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds[a] of flour until it worked all through the dough.”
34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. 35 So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:
“I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”[b]
The Parable of the Weeds Explained
36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
Sorry for the confusion Rita, the comment was addressed to Hepzibah... However APAK's reply to you was very much on point so that clarifies the issue.
Friends I need some feedback - we are in danger of this study denigrating into a scriptural bunfight like many other threads - folks seem to be able to participate without heed to the rules or consideration for the friendly spirit we intended to foster.
Let's desist from arguing positions and share personal testimonies of what He is doing in your life as our Emmanuel.
Anyone joining the thread should first introduce themselves and agree to abiding by the Principles and Truth of the Nicean Creed.
We are intending to create a safe space within which all who abide by the few rules are heard.
Opinionated anarchy will not be tolerated.
The intent is to build a family culture here where mutual respect and sensitivity prevail.
Some love to argue and score points thereby missing the treasures Scripture presents.
Please feed back and comment on how we are going and how we can improve.
Let's desist from arguing positions and share personal testimonies of what He is doing in your life as our Emmanuel.
Anyone joining the thread should first introduce themselves and agree to abiding by the Principles and Truth of the Nicean Creed.
We are intending to create a safe space within which all who abide by the few rules are heard.
Opinionated anarchy will not be tolerated.
The intent is to build a family culture here where mutual respect and sensitivity prevail.
Some love to argue and score points thereby missing the treasures Scripture presents.
Please feed back and comment on how we are going and how we can improve.
Thanks for the effort you put into this response and the kind participation in the thread. In order to create a safe place we needed some boundaries and the creed seemed to be the best pick. It is interesting that the well known verse "Without a vision the people perish..." The Hebrew word for vision means 'fence' - we needed a fence to create a safe place in which we could mine the treasures of scripture in love and respect.
Please keep to the study at hand. I advise caution when talking about the Trinity as it is being reported to the mods and could incur warning points. Thank you and have an awesome study time.
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