I personally haven’t but it would be interesting if someone does know if a document case.Has anyone heard of this rev22 warning causing someone to receive plagues in their lifetime?
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I personally haven’t but it would be interesting if someone does know if a document case.Has anyone heard of this rev22 warning causing someone to receive plagues in their lifetime?
Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
When you say "literal", do you mean "physical"? Angels are spirit beings who normally inhabit the celestial realm, but who are able to somehow become as men to interact in a physical manner within this terrerstrial realm.First off we have to have a literal angel with a literal bowl literally pouring out its contents into the literal river Euphrates.
Interesting! I've always imagined this as the river ceases to flow, leaving a dry riverbed.Next, the water drys up, dry water is water droplets that are surrounded by a silica coating which consists of 95% liquid water, but the silica coating prevents the water droplets from combining and turning back into a bulk liquid. The result is a white powder.
And as we know large armies move better when there are not major natural barriers.The purpose of drying the water is to make way for the kings of the east. The Euphrates river starts in Turkey, flows through Syria and Iraq.
This will be a much different time than today, and all the more so if I'm understanding these prophecies correctly.Currently according to Wikipedia there is a total of 30 kings and monarchs in the entire world. Let’s just suppose that all 30 kings are in view and that the Euphrates river being dry has now made a way for these kings.
Again, by literal, physical?The three spirits are like frogs, so as you said we know that it isn’t literal frogs, but these spirits come out of the mouth of the dragon, beast, and false prophet. I take it you don’t see the dragon or beast as literal but if you see the false prophet as literal then a literal spirit will have to exit his literal body, literally through his mouth.
Interesting about them working miracles, I've not realized that was the one place, I'll need to look at that. (I love a good discussion!)These spirits work miracles, which is by the way the only place we see spirits performing miracles, these spirits go forth to the kings of the earth (which is currently 30) and also to the whole world. Unless these three spirits are omnipresent they are going to have to cover the 196,900,000 square miles of the earth one mile at a time. 196,900,000 divided by 3 = 65,633,333 square miles for each spirit to cover. If each spirit was to cover 1,000 square miles each day it would take 65,633 days to cover the whole earth. That amounts to approximately 179 years. By the time these spirits cover the earth several generations of people will have been born and died.
Now let’s look at the three spirits just making contact with the people on earth. Currently there are about 8,100,000,000 people on earth. 8,100,000,000 divided by 3 = 2,700,000,000 people. If each spirit visited 73,972 people per day they would cover the entire current population once every 100 years, but by that time they do that, they would have to start over again because the first people they visited would be dead by then. Keep in mind these spirits not only have to make contact with people, they have to gather them for the battle. This also has to take place with no electricity because during the fifth bowl the kingdom is in literal darkness.
As I understand it, the dragon is Satan, and the beast at times names the final world empire, and at times names the human emperor. The false prophet I see as another man who works alongside the beast, but I wouldn't be dogmatic about that.the dragon or beast as literal but if you see the false prophet
Literal. How would a spiritual plague work? As a nightmare in our thoughts?So do you think the plagues are literal or spiritual?
I just tried to look at everything literally. When it says the mouth of the false prophet I take it as a literal mouth. If we start to deviate from a literal interpretation then we have started to move that proverbial line between literal and non-literal.Again, by literal, physical?
Does a literal demon possess a physical man? Does that require the demon be physical? Am I tracking your thought here?
Killing people is one thing but gathering people for a battle is another. Sticking to a literal interpretation a spirit would have to convince someone to join the battle or physical grab a person. We could speculate that the spirit might frighten people into going one direction or the other but again all this takes a large amount of effort. There are only three spirits that are trying to gather an entire world full of people to a literal place called Armageddon.This spirit (singular) works in "the children" (plural). I don't know by what manner or means, only that this is so. But this speaks to me that I shouldn't seek another meaning to the passage considering spirit beings seem to have capabilities far beyond mine. Not to mention the single angel that killed 185,000 in a night.
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:Literal. How would a spiritual plague work? As a nightmare in our thoughts?
There is a single spirit that works in all the children of disobedience, that is, the unregenerate. There are billions I would think, all over the world. Somehow this single spirit works in all of them.The three spirits only start to gather once they come out of the mouths. How long do you think it takes the three spirits to accomplish their mission? If the seven bowls last for seven years do you suppose it takes about one year?
Right, that single spirit is the Adamic nature. In Mark 4:15 Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. Satan isn’t omnipresent so it can’t be Satan himself that does this, it’s our Adamic nature that gets attributed back to Satan from the fall of mankind.There is a single spirit that works in all the children of disobedience, that is, the unregenerate. There are billions I would think, all over the world. Somehow this single spirit works in all of them.
How long does it take? I don't know.
Much love!
I’ve been thinking about this, if someone in the millennium were to alter the book of Revelation and the seven last plagues can only happen during the kingdom of Antichrist, then those plagues, and really any of the other plagues in Revelation that pertain only to the kingdom of Antichrist, can’t be added to the person who alters the book during the millennium.In context, the "7 last plagues" are called last because it ends the Kingdom of the Antichrist--not because there will never again be a future "plague" of any sort. So, I wouldn't say they are the last "plagues." There will be a plague in the Millennium...
Zech 14.18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.
I understand what you're saying, but I still think you're taking this too literally. I think the term "plagues" is used in a very general sense as portraying judgment that falls upon those who embrace Antichristianity and rebel against God's word, persecuting the saints of God. Those who corrupt God's word by twisting it to deflect away from this warning, because they wish to live in a wrong way, will not be able to avoid the plagues promised to those who do these kinds of things.I’ve been thinking about this, if someone in the millennium were to alter the book of Revelation and the seven last plagues can only happen during the kingdom of Antichrist, then those plagues, and really any of the other plagues in Revelation that pertain only to the kingdom of Antichrist, can’t be added to the person who alters the book during the millennium.
Can you point out which plagues, written in Revelation, that a person would experience during the millennium if they were to alter the book during that time?
Well I guess I do understand it as the actual plagues that are written in Revelation that get added to a person. I can understand that the plagues themselves can be a type of plague or non-literal plague but it would still be the actual plague that is added.I understand what you're saying, but I still think you're taking this too literally. I think the term "plagues" is used in a very general sense as portraying judgment that falls upon those who embrace Antichristianity and rebel against God's word, persecuting the saints of God. Those who corrupt God's word by twisting it to deflect away from this warning, because they wish to live in a wrong way, will not be able to avoid the plagues promised to those who do these kinds of things.
As I said earlier, the term "plagues" is inclusive of plagues that happen throughout the age for those who embrace the pagan Roman system that persecuted the Church. Harlot Babylon referred, I think to the Roman system that will evolve into the Antichristian Empire. A plague is pronounced upon all, who embrace that system in the present age and those who embrace Antichrist in his own time.
Once again, this *cannot* refer to those only who live in the time of the Beast because the book was written first to those who lived in the time of John, well before the Antichrist would even rise. They also would suffer plagues like that mentioned in the book of Revelation because they would be acting as badly as those who wished to deny the lessons of Revelation in the time of Antichrist.
It would be like Hitler and his Nazis wanting to turn the cross upside down or break it down into a swastika, and then thinking they won't suffer plagues because they do not yet live in the time of the Antichrist. Hitler *was* an antichrist, and plagues are promised to *all* those who corrupt the word of God and think they can get away with it.
Personally I wouldn't know how to describe this spirit, only to know that it is, and it has a ruler. I think of "the Adamic nature" as more describing corruption caused in us by sin.Right, that single spirit is the Adamic nature. In Mark 4:15 Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. Satan isn’t omnipresent so it can’t be Satan himself that does this, it’s our Adamic nature that gets attributed back to Satan from the fall of mankind.
Let me ask you this, do you think the people on earth during the time of the plagues have free will or the ability to resist a spirit?Personally I wouldn't know how to describe this spirit, only to know that it is, and it has a ruler. I think of "the Adamic nature" as more describing corruption caused in us by sin.
Much love!
Is that a plague? Or the total lack of spiritual power? You are talking about 2 different things. How is a literal plague experienced after death? No verse declares that.Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Here is an example of how a spiritual plague works.
How can a person who has already died experience literal plagues?
Alright, I agree with you, once a person is dead they can’t experience literal plagues.How is a literal plague experienced after death? No verse declares that.
Do they now? The earth dwellers?Let me ask you this, do you think the people on earth during the time of the plagues have free will or the ability to resist a spirit?
Well I don’t want to get into a debate on free will vs election, but if the people on earth have the ability to resist the gathering to Armageddon then it’s not just a matter of a spirit tell someone to go to battle.Do they now? The earth dwellers?
Much love!
That is not exactly what draws all of humanity to Armageddon though. Yes spiritual calling is used via the FP, the beast, and Satan. But you are missing one part of the Armageddon confrontation:Right, that single spirit is the Adamic nature. In Mark 4:15 Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. Satan isn’t omnipresent so it can’t be Satan himself that does this, it’s our Adamic nature that gets attributed back to Satan from the fall of mankind.
I thought one of the main arguments for free will is that it is possible to resist God.The spiritual calling of Satan is part of changing people's mind, but it is God who gathers all in one place. They all will be killed, as that is the end of Adam's punishment of death.
The point John was making was to prevent the book of Revelation to be altered and changed over the generations to come between when he wrote and that final judgment. Only God reserves the right to deal with individuals who try to change it throughout time. What God does or does not do, does not make John a false witness. John did exactly what God told him to do concerning this book, including the warning attached, regardless of textual criticism that may arrise.Well I guess I do understand it as the actual plagues that are written in Revelation that get added to a person. I can understand that the plagues themselves can be a type of plague or non-literal plague but it would still be the actual plague that is added.