The Gospel of Reconciliation

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JBO

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Gods word reveals mans total depravity, its based on His word. Man has not the ability to come and believe on Christ unless the Father regenerates or draws him, because man is dead in sin Jn 6:44,45

Vs 45 is the same ones of Vs 44 who are drawn by regeneration, when regenerated the can hear and learn spiritually and believe.
It doesn't say that at all. You just dreamed that up. As I have shown, God's word says the exact opposite.
 

brightfame52

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You keep repeating that nonsense without ever posting any scripture that supports it.

Yes, total spiritual inability and total depravity is one and the same and both are total nonsense.
No man can come, that denotes lack of ability to come and believe. Thats Jesus teaching total inability, are you ashamed of His Words ?

Mk 8:38

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Gods word reveals mans total depravity

No, God's Word actually reveals that man shall be held accountable by God for his actions

2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


If it were not possible for man to turn from his evil ways unto the Lord, then it would be unjust of God to judge them for something they have no ability to do anything about.

So, if a child molester ever sexually assaults your little girl... are you still going to agree with total depravity and actually believe the pervert was not guilty because they have no way to control themself?

If you really believe in total depravity then you must believe mankind should not be held responsible for their crimes... including the person that shoots up a school and kills school children... your view is they just can't help themselves and as such they should not be sent to prison.
 

BarneyFife

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Mankind is totally hopeless and evil without the grace of Christ working on the heart by His Spirit. And unless you believe in eternal security and instant and complete regeneration, every step we take toward Him is as dependent upon that grace as the first one.

:hearteyes:
.
 

Rightglory

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Yes it does, Christ was a believer as a man, so the predestined will become believers
You are not even consistent within your own theology. Christ is the Truth. He is NOT a believer.
Furthermore, your theology says they were predestined as believers, not to become believers. You are trying to mix pagan philosophy of predestination into scripture and it does not fit. They are mutually exclusive.
It also does not make sense in how God would predestinate. Since not all humans are then God must use some kind of algorithm to determine who would be predestinated being arbitary. Makes God arbitary and particular. It also denies God's love for all of His creatures. Was Adam and Eve predestined to hell or to believe?
 

brightfame52

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You are not even consistent within your own theology. Christ is the Truth. He is NOT a believer.
Furthermore, your theology says they were predestined as believers, not to become believers. You are trying to mix pagan philosophy of predestination into scripture and it does not fit. They are mutually exclusive.
It also does not make sense in how God would predestinate. Since not all humans are then God must use some kind of algorithm to determine who would be predestinated being arbitary. Makes God arbitary and particular. It also denies God's love for all of His creatures. Was Adam and Eve predestined to hell or to believe?
Christ was a believer in God, did He have Faith in God ? He kept the Law of God. In fact one scripture speaking of Christ Im sure, indicated He put His Trust in God Heb 2:12-13

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

He is the author and finisher of our faith if we belong to Him Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Jesus seed will be conformed into a life of Faith
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Gods word reveals mans total depravity

No, if total depravity was true man could not get saved at all.

When we get saved, God is not doing everything.... if He is doing everything, then it's His fault that so many don;'t get saved.

All of this is of course garbage that comes from the depraved satanic mind of calvinism
 
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brightfame52

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No, if total depravity was true man could not get saved at all.

When we get saved, God is not doing everything.... if He is doing everything, then it's His fault that so many don;'t get saved.

All of this is of course garbage that comes from the depraved satanic mind of calvinism
Total depravity is True and men can be saved, by a Saviour !
 

JBO

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Total depravity is True and men can be saved, by a Saviour !
If Total Depravity is True, and men can be saved by a Savior, and all men are not saved by the Savior, then the Savior is at fault for failing to save all. That is fact.
 

brightfame52

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If Total Depravity is True, and men can be saved by a Savior, and all men are not saved by the Savior, then the Savior is at fault for failing to save all. That is fact.
Christ didn't die for all men, only the saved
 

Rightglory

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Christ was a believer in God, did He have Faith in God ? He kept the Law of God. In fact one scripture speaking of Christ Im sure, indicated He put His Trust in God Heb 2:12-13

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
These Psalms that are quoted in these verses are Messianic. The Psalmist is speaking of declaring God's Name to his brothers, and the other children God as given to Him. It shows a solidarity between the Messish and the people of Israel, This Shows the solidarity of the Messiah with the children of men.
Vs 14 confirms this solidarity. It says, since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, took the same, that through death He might defeat the one who held the power over death and sin.
Which leads right into one of the points of Calvinism, Limited Atonement.
Based on this verse I would like you to explain how Christ could possibly be limited in His Atonement?
 

Robert Pate

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These Psalms that are quoted in these verses are Messianic. The Psalmist is speaking of declaring God's Name to his brothers, and the other children God as given to Him. It shows a solidarity between the Messish and the people of Israel, This Shows the solidarity of the Messiah with the children of men.
Vs 14 confirms this solidarity. It says, since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, took the same, that through death He might defeat the one who held the power over death and sin.
Which leads right into one of the points of Calvinism, Limited Atonement.
Based on this verse I would like you to explain how Christ could possibly be limited in His Atonement?
John Calvin was a heretic and a tyrant. He was responsible for the deaths of many Christians that opposed him. If you really want to know the truth about this demon, google, "The recorded atrocities of John Calvin".
 

brightfame52

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These Psalms that are quoted in these verses are Messianic. The Psalmist is speaking of declaring God's Name to his brothers, and the other children God as given to Him. It shows a solidarity between the Messish and the people of Israel, This Shows the solidarity of the Messiah with the children of men.
Vs 14 confirms this solidarity. It says, since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, took the same, that through death He might defeat the one who held the power over death and sin.
Which leads right into one of the points of Calvinism, Limited Atonement.
Based on this verse I would like you to explain how Christ could possibly be limited in His Atonement?
Christ was a believe in God, He prayed to God. You think He prayed without having Faith in God and His Promises ? The elect are Christs Spiritual seed, even though they are born naturally like all others, there comes a time when they are made believers, given Faith so that they are manifested as His Seed
 

Rightglory

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Christ was a believe in God, He prayed to God. You think He prayed without having Faith in God and His Promises ? The elect are Christs Spiritual seed, even though they are born naturally like all others, there comes a time when they are made believers, given Faith so that they are manifested as His Seed
If you mean to say Christ in His Human Nature keep His faith, as well as He prayed to God is correct.
Christ did not give birth to spiritual seed. A believer attains spiritual life by faith and baptism.
Heb 2:14 states very clearly that Christ took on Himself our human nature, flesh and blood. This is not spiritual but physical.
If Christ took on our human nature and suffered/died and was resurrected with that human nature. How can that be limited.
You can posit limited, but then you also need to explain were in scripture some human beings do not have the same human nature Christ assumed from the Virgin Mary.
 

JBO

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That Christ only died for the saved is evil ?
That God would cause everyone to be totally depraved makes God the cause of evil. And yes, that He could save everyone simply by regenerating everyone but doesn't is evil by neglect. But total depravity is a false doctrine as is monergistic regeneration.
 

brightfame52

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If you mean to say Christ in His Human Nature keep His faith, as well as He prayed to God is correct.
Christ did not give birth to spiritual seed. A believer attains spiritual life by faith and baptism.
Heb 2:14 states very clearly that Christ took on Himself our human nature, flesh and blood. This is not spiritual but physical.
If Christ took on our human nature and suffered/died and was resurrected with that human nature. How can that be limited.
You can posit limited, but then you also need to explain were in scripture some human beings do not have the same human nature Christ assumed from the Virgin Mary.
Christ though He is God, yet He is Man and as Man He was faithful to God and believers are His Seed, but they are not born believers yet they shall be born again into believers because they are His Seed, spiritual seed
 

brightfame52

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That God would cause everyone to be totally depraved makes God the cause of evil. And yes, that He could save everyone simply by regenerating everyone but doesn't is evil by neglect. But total depravity is a false doctrine as is monergistic regeneration.
Christ died only for the saved, the damned God created them as vessels of wrath to damn them for their sins
 
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