The Only Way We Will Ever Agree

[marks]

I've come to the conclusion that there is only one way we will all ever agree on the meanings contained in the Scriptures. Can anyone tell me what that way would be?

Much love!

 

[Augustin56]

I've come to the conclusion that there is only one way we will all ever agree on the meanings contained in the Scriptures. Can anyone tell me what that way would be?

Much love!

I think we will all agree once we die, because we will see all truth.

 

[marks]

I think we will all agree once we die, because we will see all truth.

What about here in this life? No possible way?

Much love!

 

[lforrest]

I've come to the conclusion that there is only one way we will all ever agree on the meanings contained in the Scriptures. Can anyone tell me what that way would be?

Much love!

Dally submission to the leading of the Holy Spirit, so we are unified with Christ and also all others who are lead by the Spirit.

 

[Augustin56]

What about here in this life? No possible way?

Much love!

With God, anything is possible. But, barring Divine intervention, I don't see it happening. I think it's harder when you have a society that stresses individualism to the degree that ours does. Everyone thinks they have to personally reinvent the wheel and get credit.

That aside, there are some philosophers who, I believe, have thrown some wrenches into the works and done great harm to the way people reason in our society. One was Rene Descartes. He separated the criteria from truth, from reality and knowledge through your senses to purely what's in your own mind. Then, Emmanul Kant, who concluded from Descartes’ claim, that there is no way we can ultimately know reality. Then, there was Hagel, who insisted that everything is always changing, including God.

I think a lot of people, especially our youth, are messed up through ascribing to really bad philosophy.

 

[Jericho]

We see through a glass darkly. We may read the same scripture, but how we interpret those scriptures is up for debate. I don't see that changing any time soon. I agree with Augstin 56: until we get to the other side and know absolute truth, there will be disagreements.

 

[GTW27]

When we are all One. John 17

 

[Sheila3]

I think we will all agree once we die, because we will see all truth.

In the new heaven and on the new Earth under the authority of Christ himself.

 

[marks]

Ephesians 4:13-15 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Much love!

 

[BlessedPeace]

I've come to the conclusion that there is only one way we will all ever agree on the meanings contained in the Scriptures. Can anyone tell me what that way would be?

Much love!

You open a thread telling us You've arrived at a conclusion. And then ask us to guess as to what that is?

You so silly.

 

[SavedInHim]

Ephesians 4:13-15 KJV
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

How do you see this playing out? Many people quote these verses, but what do they mean? How do you interpret it? Will there come a time when every single believer will say: Yes, Matthew 28:19 means this; or, 1 Corinthians 14:5 means that? Are you saying doctrine itself is the bad guy and all we need is love and the full knowledge of the Son of God? What do these verses mean in your view?

 

[Spyder]

I see people quoting proof texts that they use for their conclusions. What I don't see are those verses that call their proof texts into doubt. Until we use all of scripture to delves into truth, we will not agree.

When don't we use all of scripture? Well, it takes time and effort. Worse yet, the truth may gore our sacred ox and leave us more humble that we'd like.

I've asked God to give me truth while delving into scripture and had Him convict me of falsely claiming that I already knew "the truth." Even asking Him to "take it back" didn't work.

Learning that way will cause a disruption in our hearts and a change in relationships with those who used to accept you based on the fact that you were "all of one mind" previously but now aren't.

We don't like being the oddball among our social group. In that, I think we fear learning God's truth. After all, when we have the social support of 99 others, we fear being the one lamb that follows a different trail.

 

[Cyd]

I've come to the conclusion that there is only one way we will all ever agree on the meanings contained in the Scriptures. Can anyone tell me what that way would be?

Much love!

That way would be one question "Do you believe in Jesus Christ as your saviour?" Answer Yes or No

Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

This is the only way I see we would all agree.

 

[marks]

You open a thread telling us You've arrived at a conclusion. And then ask us to guess as to what that is?

You so silly.

By interpretting according to the same hermeneutic, and that hermeneutic being that which is most directly verifiable from the text.

Interpretations are very subjective for the most part, and the more one reaches for "spiritual" interpretations, or interpretations which are not directly from the words given, the more our interpretations will vary from each other. The more we seek interpretations that are specifically grounded in the text, the more our interpretations will agree.

Example, the 144,000 sealed from the 12 tribes of Israel. Everyone who accepts this "as is", will agree. Those who believe these 144,000 represent someone or something else, the more likely their interpretations will not be the same, as each will come to their own idea of what it represents, considering there is no Scripture which gives us such information.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How do you see this playing out? Many people quote these verses, but what do they mean? How do you interpret it? Will there come a time when every single believer will say: Yes, Matthew 28:19 means this; or, 1 Corinthians 14:5 means that? Are you saying doctrine itself is the bad guy and all we need is love and the full knowledge of the Son of God? What do these verses mean in your view?

I'm continuing to consider what I will answer you.

Much love!

 

[Spyder]

Experience has led me to realize that interpretations are very subjective for most people I have known. Each scripture passage seems to be taken from the position of what a person already has accepted as truth. Churches teach doctrines and then those who learn those doctrines then justify their scripture interpretations based on those already accepted doctrines.
Anyone with a different interpretations should be aware that there will come a time when "objective comparison" of scripture passages will end and voices will get louder.
Those who have ingrained church doctrines will come to believe that their views have been given by God when in reality they have been established by their denomination.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I see people quoting proof texts that they use for their conclusions. What I don't see are those verses that call their proof texts into doubt. Until we use all of scripture to delves into truth, we will not agree.

When don't we use all of scripture? Well, it takes time and effort. Worse yet, the truth may gore our sacred ox and leave us more humble that we'd like.

I've asked God to give me truth while delving into scripture and had Him convict me of falsely claiming that I already knew "the truth." Even asking Him to "take it back" didn't work.

Learning that way will cause a disruption in our hearts and a change in relationships with those who used to accept you based on the fact that you were "all of one mind" previously but now aren't.

We don't like being the oddball among our social group. In that, I think we fear learning God's truth. After all, when we have the social support of 99 others, we fear being the one lamb that follows a different trail.

Dear Spyder,
The one lamb that "follows a different trail" is representative of the Elect. The 99 sheep represent the "many" who are called but are not chosen for salvation in this age. They will not be a "first fruit" of Christ's harvest of mankind.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Joe

 

[lforrest]

By interpretting according to the same hermeneutic, and that hermeneutic being that which is most directly verifiable from the text.

Interpretations are very subjective for the most part, and the more one reaches for "spiritual" interpretations, or interpretations which are not directly from the words given, the more our interpretations will vary from each other. The more we seek interpretations that are specifically grounded in the text, the more our interpretations will agree.

Example, the 144,000 sealed from the 12 tribes of Israel. Everyone who accepts this "as is", will agree. Those who believe these 144,000 represent someone or something else, the more likely their interpretations will not be the same, as each will come to their own idea of what it represents, considering there is no Scripture which gives us such information.

Much love!

These are my thoughts on the matter:

An interpretation of the scriptures that is discerned by the Spirit of God is essential to knowing its true meeting. You can tell if someone is angrily pushing their interpretation that they are operating by the flesh and their interpretations worth nothing.

hermeneutics can aid in interpretation, and may lead to insights. But know insights are spiritual, so it is more a collaborative process with the Spirit.

False interpretation is perpetuated by the devil. And that gives the more harmful of these a longevity that isn't natural for the marketplace of ideas.

When it comes to spiritual discernment it is a matter of superposition. Believers have the spirit but is it in equal measure? Does having a better relationship with God improve that? It is one thing to say we are living by the Spirit, but do we actually do it? Are we living the crucified life? Basically where we are in Christ determines the temporal quality of that relationship. And Christ has a holistic perspective of us from before we are born to when we are with him in eternity.

There may be an element of fairness at play as well. If God gives one of his children every answer, much like his relationship with Jesus, is that showing favoritism? Romans 2:11 God does not show favoritism. So there must be some thing on our part to differentiate the depth of our relationship.

Why should God help you to interpret Scripture? Do you actually have an application for it that helps the kingdom? While God may answer us due to our relationships with him, I doubt he feels obligated to satisfy our curiosity.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I've come to the conclusion that there is only one way we will all ever agree on the meanings contained in the Scriptures. Can anyone tell me what that way would be?

Much love!

Dear Marks,
Here is the way that a person becomes to a "perfect man" and has a true knowledge of the truth of God:

Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?

In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language:

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit). And because of such, they were still spiritually blind and could not understand the spiritual language of Christ.

Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.

Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.

In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called out from the world and enters the church.

After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for called out believers who walk by sight (the flesh, carnal nature) rather than by faith & the Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.

This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their carnal nature still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).

For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better than the New Wine:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the spiritual works of Christ.

Peter says that this near-sighted condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins

Peter makes this statement because the believers to whom he was addressing were mixing their own works with faith. They were still preferring the Old Wine.

In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.

From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8). The man has been given eyes that can see spiritually ("drawn from the breasts" Isa 28:9). From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will then come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith. He will be included in the resurrection of the First Fruits and will receive the reward of life during the ages.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

For those who were not chosen and were not given eyes that can see spiritually, they will go away to judgment with the unbelievers (Luke 12:46). They will suffer loss, but by the end of that age, they, too "shall be saved, yet so by fire":

1Cor 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abides which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Joe

 

[Wynona]

Experience has led me to realize that interpretations are very subjective for most people I have known. Each scripture passage seems to be taken from the position of what a person already has accepted as truth. Churches teach doctrines and then those who learn those doctrines then justify their scripture interpretations based on those already accepted doctrines.
Anyone with a different interpretations should be aware that there will come a time when "objective comparison" of scripture passages will end and voices will get louder.
Those who have ingrained church doctrines will come to believe that their views have been given by God when in reality they have been established by their denomination.

Quote of the year for me