TULIP an open discussion

[setst777]

The New birth Of The Spirit is the eternal life of God?..not biblical.

The Spirit in us is what gives us life.

Romans 8:10-11 (EWEB) 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the {Spirit of Christ}, he is not his. 10 If Christ is IN YOU, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive [regeneration] because of righteousness.

How do you possess that eternal life by faith..do you mean your faith?

That is what Lord Jesus said.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

Faith is a gift from God a manifestation of the Spirit...human faith is no faith at all....you need Supernatural faith from God...Spirit gives birth to spirit.

The Spirit indwells us to give us life by faith (John 7:37-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; Galatians 3:2; Galatians 3:14; Acts 2:38)

John 7:37-38 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

Galatians 3:2 (NIV) 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:14 (NIV) 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 1:13 (WEB) In him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit

You don’t become Born Again in the intellect..we are Born of the Spirit ...no one can explain how God births our spirit into his...as it’s a Living supernatural rebirth..

A true faith by which we receive the Spirit is always accompanied by repentance, and is manifested in obedience - a commitment to obey Lord Jesus.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) 38 Peter said to them, “Repent (change of mind and purpose), and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (Young’s Literal Translation)15 `If you love me, keep my commands, 16 and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age; 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:21 (WEB) 21 One who has my commandments and keeps them, that person is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

After hearing...I see that very differently...

Hearing comes as we are being supernaturally reborn..Spirit gives birth to spirit , the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children as he’s indwelling us and gifting us HIS Faith to believe, which is a manifestation of the Spirit.

Only by faith.

Keep in mind that we are children of God by faith.

Galatians 3:26 (WEB) For you are all children of God, {{through faith}} in Christ Jesus.

Regeneration is to receive God’s Spirit AFTER a person believes and becomes a child of God:

Galatians 4:6 (WEB) And because you are children [which is by faith: Galatians 3:26], God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!”

We all initially believe, in Jesus, which we must do, before Spirit gives birth to spirit...that’s the part that only God can do...

One can’t believe in Jesus without God given Faith, then one believes, because the have been Born Of The Spirit.

Without the witness “ The Holy Spirit “ whom we receive when we become Born Again, we have become Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.....that is Gods Living seed that we receive into our heart...only God can open our heart to receive His Spirit....

God says we must be Born Again, after that supernatural event, you never stop hearing from God, because we are His “ Spiritual Children”....we then start to grow and mature in the Spirit ..as his word says, without His Spirit we are none of His...

The Spirit indwelling us is a supernatural event, and is by faith.

When the Word of God is heard, the Spirit is active to convict, but that is not being born again, rather, by the Word and Spirit we are drawn to Christ, but many resist the Spirit and the Word.

Acts 7:51-53 (WEB) 51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do. 52 Which of the prophets didn’t your fathers persecute? They killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One, of whom you have now become betrayers and murderers. 53 You received the law as it was ordained by angels, and didn’t keep it!”

 

[marks]

Galatians 3:2 (NIV) 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

This is a good reference. Paul did not give a different option, such as, "Did you receive the Spirit by God's Own choosing?" Options are either because you believed, or because you worked.

Once again, I find this all over the Bible, and here is one more place.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

The Spirit in us is what gives us life.

Could you answer my questions please?

The Spirit in us..please explain

Romans 8:10-11 (EWEB) 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the {Spirit of Christ}, he is not his. 10 If Christ is IN YOU, the body is dead because of sin, but the spirit is alive [regeneration] because of righteousness.



That is what Lord Jesus said.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

We can only hear his word after we have been Born Of The Spirit?

Or we hear as he is birthing our spirit into His...Spirit gives birth to spirit..the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....that is the Living seed of God...

We don’t belong to God unless Spirit gives birth to spirit.

The Spirit indwells us to give us life by faith (John 7:37-39; Ephesians 1:13-14; Galatians 3:2; Galatians 3:14; Acts 2:38)

John 7:37-38 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

Galatians 3:2 (NIV) 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:14 (NIV) 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 1:13 (WEB) In him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit



A true faith by which we receive the Spirit is always accompanied by repentance, and is manifested in obedience - a commitment to obey Lord Jesus.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) 38 Peter said to them, “Repent (change of mind and purpose), and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (Young’s Literal Translation)15 `If you love me, keep my commands, 16 and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age; 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:21 (WEB) 21 One who has my commandments and keeps them, that person is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

You are posting reams and reams of scripture..yet not explaining what they mean?

Only by faith.

Keep in mind that we are children of God by faith.

Galatians 3:26 (WEB) For you are all children of God, {{through faith}} in Christ Jesus.

Regeneration is to receive God’s Spirit AFTER a person believes and becomes a child of God:

Galatians 4:6 (WEB) And because you are children [which is by faith: Galatians 3:26], God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!”



The Spirit indwelling us is a supernatural event, and is by faith.

When the Word of God is heard, the Spirit is active to convict, but that is not being born again, rather, by the Word and Spirit we are drawn to Christ, but many resist the Spirit and the Word.

Acts 7:51-53 (WEB) 51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do. 52 Which of the prophets didn’t your fathers persecute? They killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One, of whom you have now become betrayers and murderers. 53 You received the law as it was ordained by angels, and didn’t keep it!”

You’re believing is very different to my mine...which I’ve said is fine.....as long as we don’t start pushing what we believe onto each other.

If that’s what you believe ...as some others believe the same as you..that’s great.

I believe as I believe and some here also are on the same spiritual wavelength as me...which is also great.

Instead of trying to force what we believe onto others or each other....we need to “ respect “ what the other one believes...

I ask questions as I’m trying to understand how you believe the way you believe...let me know if I’m using force...as that is not my intention..

 

[setst777]

The Spirit in us..please explain

The Spirit indwelling us gives Life.

We can only hear his word after we have been Born Of The Spirit?

When we hear the Word and believe, we are born of the Spirit - the Spirit indwells us to give us Life.

We don’t belong to God unless Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Correct.

You are posting reams and reams of scripture..yet not explaining what they mean?

I could have quoted just one Passage for each of your questions, but I desire for you to know that these things are repeated teachings in God's Word, not just a one or two Passages. I did not think those Passages needed explaining, although I did introduce them.

You’re believing is very different to my mine...which I’ve said is fine.....as long as we don’t start pushing what we believe onto each other.

If that’s what you believe ...as some others believe the same as you..that’s great.

I believe as I believe and some here also are on the same spiritual wavelength as me...which is also great.

Believe as you wish. All I did was answer your questions by Scripture.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Spirit indwelling us give Life.



When we hear the Word and believe, we are born of the Spirit - the Spirit indwells us to give us Life.



Correct.



I could have quoted just one Passage for each of your questions, but I desire for you to know that these things are repeated teachings in God's Word, not just a one or two Passages. I did not think those Passages needed explaining, although I did introduce them.



Believe as you wish. All I did what answer your questions by Scripture.

The Spirit indwelling us give Life.

How would you know that the Holy Spirit indwells you?

Scripture is Gods written word..it’s not his Living word..you can’t become Born Again by reading.......the rebirth is a Living rebirth.....Gods Living word penetrates our hearts not our intellect.we become Born Again by Gods Living seed...His seed is very much Alive in Spirit....

When we hear the Word and believe, we are born of the Spirit - the Spirit indwells us to give us Life.

This is where I don’t understand, which is fine...

This is my belief..we hear all about Jesus at school being taught RE...

We can’t believe without God gifting us Faith, which as His word says, a manifestation of the Spirit

Correct.



I could have quoted just one Passage for each of your questions, but I desire for you to know that these things are repeated teachings in God's Word, not just a one or two Passages. I did not think those Passages needed explaining, although I did introduce them.



Believe as you wish. All I did what answer your questions by Scripture.

Yes..I too can post scripture...but..we aren’t Born Again by scriptural knowledge, understanding in the intellect ..

We are Born Again exactly how Gods word says we are...Spirit gives birth to spirit...that is the second spiritual birth that only God can do.

Yes, you also believe as you wish....God Bless.

Just to add my own testimony on what I believe.

There is NO way I can or could confess Jesus is Lord, without God given Faith a manifestation of the Spirit.

The witness the Holy Spirit indwells and has taken up residence in my heart/ spirit, I have been Born Again of imperishable seed.thats the only way that I know Jesus is who he says he is..only by His witness the Spirit.....without His Spirit...I would be dead and still in darkness...His Spirit brought my spirit to Life by His power...all Glory belongs to God regarding the rebirth...my opinion/ testimony and belief 100%.

As we also see below...Gods word..no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit....He and only He can witness the truth of Gods Living word to our hearts...

We NEVER stop learning or growing in Christ...as we are His , when he made us Born Again of imperishable seed.

​

◄ 1 Corinthians 12:3 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. New Living Translation So I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will curse Jesus, and no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. English Standard Version Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit. Berean Standard Bible Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. Berean Literal Bible Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed," and no one is able to say, "Jesus is Lord," if not in the Holy Spirit

 

[setst777]

How would you know that the Holy Spirit indwells you?

After listening to and learning the Gospel, I believed the message and put my faith in Lord Jesus in sincere repentance and a commitment to follow Him. The Scriptures teach, which I quoted for you, that when we believe in this way, we show that we love Lord Jesus; and so, the Holy Spirit indwells those who have this Gospel faith.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) 38 Peter said to them, “Repent (change of mind and purpose), and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (Young’s Literal Translation)15 `If you love me, keep my commands, 16 and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age; 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:21 (WEB) 21 One who has my commandments and keeps them, that person is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.

Scripture is Gods written word..it’s not his Living word..you can’t become Born Again by reading.......the rebirth is a Living rebirth.....Gods Living word penetrates our hearts not our intellect.

The Scriptures are the Sword of the Spirit that convicts the hearts of sinners. Even so, many do resist God's Word and the Spirit.

Acts 7:51-53 (WEB) 51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do. 52 Which of the prophets didn’t your fathers persecute? They killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One, of whom you have now become betrayers and murderers. 53 You received the law as it was ordained by angels, and didn’t keep it!”

We can’t believe without God gifting us Faith, which as His word says, a manifestation of the Spirit

Can you show me in God's Word that teaches God selects some people to gift with faith so they can be saved, and the rest are left without any hope?

The Scriptures teach us that God calls all sinners to repent and believe.

Romans 11:32 (WEB) 32 For God has bound all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

Acts 17:30 (WEB) 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent

John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (EWEB) 21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

Isaiah 45:22 (WEB) Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.

Yes..I too can post scripture...but..we aren’t Born Again by scriptural knowledge, understanding in the intellect ..

We are Born Again exactly how Gods word says we are...Spirit gives birth to spirit...that is the second spiritual birth that only God can do.

Yes, you also believe as you wish....God Bless.

Yes, the Spirit indwelling us is being born again, regenerated, made alive, and is by faith.

John 7:37-38 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

Blessings in Christ Jesus our Lord

 

[Ritajanice]

After listening to and learning the Gospel, I believed the message and put my faith in Lord Jesus in sincere repentance and a commitment to follow Him. The Scriptures teach, which I quoted for you, that when we believe in this way, we show that we love Lord Jesus; and so, the Holy Spirit indwells those who have this Gospel faith.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) 38 Peter said to them, “Repent (change of mind and purpose), and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-17 (Young’s Literal Translation)15 `If you love me, keep my commands, 16 and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age; 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:21 (WEB) 21 One who has my commandments and keeps them, that person is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.

John 14:23 (WEB) 23 Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.



The Scriptures are the Sword of the Spirit that convicts the hearts of sinners. Even so, many do resist God's Word and the Spirit.

Acts 7:51-53 (WEB) 51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do. 52 Which of the prophets didn’t your fathers persecute? They killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One, of whom you have now become betrayers and murderers. 53 You received the law as it was ordained by angels, and didn’t keep it!”

​

◄ 1 Corinthians 12:3 ►

​

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. New Living Translation So I want you to know that no one speaking by the Spirit of God will curse Jesus, and no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit. English Standard Version Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit. Berean Standard Bible Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. Berean Literal Bible Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking in the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed," and no one is able to say, "Jesus is Lord," if not in the Holy Spirit

you show me in God's Word that teaches God selects some people to gift with faith so they can be saved, and the rest are left without any hope?

If you check scripture God does say he gifts some faith as he pleases, I will look that scripture up and post it.

We all have different spiritual gifts...I was given the gift of Faith..it’s a gift from God.

1 Corinthians 12-14​

​

King James Version​

​

​

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The Scriptures teach us that God calls all sinners to repent and believe.

Romans 11:32 (WEB) 32 For God has bound all to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all.

Acts 17:30 (WEB) 30 The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent

John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (EWEB) 21 For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

Isaiah 45:22 (WEB) Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.



Yes, the Spirit indwelling us is being born again, regenerated, made alive, and is by faith.

John 7:37-38 (WEB) 37 Now on the last and greatest day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink! 38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.

Blessings in Christ Jesus our Lord

Ok, well I very much appreciate you giving your opinion/ testimony and belief.

We all do the same...only some of us believe very differently on how we become Born Again....no problem...God Bless ...you too,xx

 

[setst777]

If you check scripture God does say he gifts some faith as he pleases, I will look that scripture up and post it.

The gifts of the Spirit are for believers in Christ.

The Apostle Paul wrote in his Letters to the Believers (1 Corinthians 12:4-13; Romans 12:3-8) that Christians are all one in the Spirit as the Body of Christ, yet with different gifts as the Spirit wills.

One of those gifts that Christians are given is the gift of faith to operate in the unique Spiritual gift given to that person, charismatically speaking, as Paul details.

Ok, well I very much appreciate you giving your opinion/ testimony and belief.

We all do the same...only some of us believe very differently on how we become Born Again....no problem...God Bless ...you too,xx

God Bless

 

[Ritajanice]

The gifts of the Spirit are for believers in Christ.

The Apostle Paul wrote in his Letters to the Believers (1 Corinthians 12:4-13; Romans 12:3-8) that Christians are all one in the Spirit as the Body of Christ, yet with different gifts as the Spirit wills.

One of those gifts that Christians are given is the gift of faith to operate in the unique Spiritual gift given to that person, charismatically speaking, as Paul details.



God Bless

It’s been great fellowshipping with you....

God Bless....we all Love Jesus...no doubt about that,xx

 

[Ritajanice]

One of those gifts that Christians are given is the gift of faith to operate in the unique Spiritual gift given to that person, charismatically speaking, as Paul details.

Yes indeed...I was given that gift of Faith...and Boy has it grown....I was appointed a mission by God as soon as I became Born Again...even though I was gifted faith in that area, it was weak....but my faith has grown so strong in that area....Praise God for that...it’s taken 32 years for my faith and trust in God to penetrate my heart....in that area.....there is NOTHING God can’t do....I believe that now in my spirit.

What looks and is completely impossible to us as we are only human....is not impossible for God...he has shown me that ...mind blowing it is.....He is so powerful nothing on the planet can stop His will.

 

[APAK]

Jesus is the Elect Servant. All who are in Christ share what He has, including His election. We were chosen "in Him". We are not "in Him" until we are reborn.

Much love!

You may have the wrong Jesus here if you think that we have the same exact purpose of God for our election, the same as for Yahshua. We share in the end-results of his purpose in God and his election by God, that he performed, especially with his holy works on this earth.

Jesus is the elected or chosen servant of God indeed. We do not share in his initial reason for election however. We share in his common reason for election after his ascension, in his past glory, in God, as we are in God by him today.

Yes, we are elected to be saved in Christ that ultimately ends up of the same goal of Christ's election, to be in him, as God's ultimate purpose and goal is to be in all, as he is in his Son today.

As you must know already, Yahshua was chosen to perform many important tasks, and to name but a few, to reveal his Father, to preach of his gospel and his Kingdom, to establish his New Covenant by his shed blood on the Cross, and to be given eternal life or immortality as the most important goal, for us, for our salvation and future immortality. Without Yahshua becoming immortal, we could never be saved/reborn in the Spirit. Yes, we are not 'in him' until we are truly converted with the spirit of Yahshua, given and sealed by/in God into our heart.

You may differ in, when immortality was given to/or had to/for Yahshua however, because of the difference in believing in one person versus more than one person as God.

As in Luke 23:35b he was and is the chosen one of God, as his Christ, and for us. And he the Son of his Father, as our Father God also.

(Luk 23:35) And the people stood watching. And the rulers also scoffed at him, saying: He saved others. Let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, His chosen!

 

[marks]

You may have the wrong Jesus here if you think that we have the same exact purpose of God for our election, the same as for Yahshua.

I think you need to rethink what I just wrote. That's not what I said, and putting words into my mouth does not increase communication.

What I said was, We are chosen in Christ. We are not in Christ until we are reborn. We are baptized into Christ, and share what is His, including His election.

As for the "wrong Jesus", Jesus is YHWH, born as a man on earth, at the same time both God and man. I don't think that is "your Jesus".

Given that we have a solid and fundamental disagreement over who Jesus is, well, you can finish that thought yourself.

Much love!

 

[setst777]

Yes indeed...I was given that gift of Faith...and Boy has it grown....I was appointed a mission by God as soon as I became Born Again...even though I was gifted faith in that area, it was weak....but my faith has grown so strong in that area....Praise God for that...it’s taken 32 years for my faith and trust in God to penetrate my heart....in that area.....there is NOTHING God can’t do....I believe that now in my spirit.

What looks and is completely impossible to us as we are only human....is not impossible for God...he has shown me that ...mind blowing it is.....He is so powerful nothing on the planet can stop His will.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This is one of the things I hate about this debate.

I have yet to meet anyone who claims salvation is all up to them. The only people I hear say this are calvinists who are saying arminians are claiming this.

Okay, I understand what you mean. Allow me to share a story to illustrate what I believe people are attempting to convey. The conventional understanding of salvation among Christians is analogous to traveling across the Atlantic Ocean on a ship to arrive at salvation. In this analogy, God's grace is akin to Jesus buying a ticket for everyone. To board the ship, one simply needs to accept the ticket from Jesus and board the ship.

Jesus' death on the cross is akin to buying a ticket for everyone. The common understanding of the cross is that Jesus was the atonement for the entire world -- everyone and for all time.

Jesus freely offers a ticket for salvation to anyone who asks for it, with just one condition: Those who take the ticket must pledge fealty. Some people accept the offer with this condition, while others choose not to.

In the analogy above, God's grace is represented by Jesus purchasing a ticket for everyone and providing the ship. Our responsibility is to accept the ticket from Jesus with the condition that we wait patiently until the ship arrives at the harbor. If we fail to receive the ticket, we will not arrive at salvation. Moreover, if we lose our patience and give up before the ship docks, we will not arrive at salvation either. Only those who receive a ticket and patiently wait at the dock will arrive at Salvation.

If a person receives a ticket from Jesus Christ and boards the ship, they will be taken across the Atlantic to reach salvation. However, if the person becomes impatient and disembarks before the ship reaches its destination, they will miss the opportunity. This is similar to persevering in faith. One must not only accept the ticket from Jesus but also have the patience to wait for the ship to reach its destination.

My position is similar to the analogy above with one, fundamental refinement. God's grace includes a fundamental inward change of those whom he is saving. The decision to accept or reject a ticket from Jesus involves both the mind and the heart. Likewise, the patience required to wait for the ship to arrive also involves a strength of character and resilience also provided according to God's grace.

According to Jesus, most people are willing to accept a ticket, but not all of those who accept a ticket from Jesus are willing to wait until the ship docks. According to the Apostles Peter, Paul, and James. God supernaturally prepares the heart to wait for Jesus to return and never give up the faith.

These Calvin vs arminian debates are unfruitful because everyone tries to read the other as they have to be one or the other.. And this in turn causes people to not understand what the other person is actually saying.

I totally agree. But I hope that this will give us all an opportunity to practice hearing and thinking about what other people say. The opportunity is here if anyone should wish to take it.

I also know there are quite a few calvinists here. Are there any arminians here at all?? I have yet to meet one..Maybe i missed it

I really don't know.

 

[marks]

The common understanding of the cross is that Jesus was the atonement for the entire world -- everyone and for all time.

Behold, the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world. Seems clear to me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There you go again, doing laps on ground already covered.

I've been reading this thread, and you've mentioned doing laps a number of times, lapping the laps, I'd say. I'm not seeing any difference between their repetitions and yours. Just sayin'.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I have yet to meet anyone who claims salvation is all up to them. The only people I hear say this are calvinists who are saying arminians are claiming this.

This is another thing I dislike about this discussion. Not the topic, but the way it's discussed, the endless straw men.

I challenge all readers to examine what they think others are saying, to make sure they haven't imported their own ideas, and aren't answering within their personal echo chamber.

It requires patience and diligence to really hear others.

Much love!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Did Not Jesus make this as an offer?

Just as Moses lifted the serpent was an offer for the jews to by saved from poisonous snakes.

He said he himself would be lifted up so that whoever believes will not perish but live forever.

How can someone receive Christ in faith (john 1: 12) in order to be saved if it is not offered to them?

I can't remember an offer of salvation anywhere in the NT. I thought I remembered Jesus offering salvation to the woman at the well. But he says, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give me a drink.' You would have asked him, and he would have given you living water." So the exchange is different from an offer. Jesus tells the woman that she needs to ask for living water. This implies that one needs to hear the gospel message, believe it and then ask for what we want based on that information.

I mean, Jesus didn't tell the woman upfront, "I have living water. Do you want it?" Instead, he identified himself as the source of living water. It was her idea to ask for it. And did Jesus give it to her? We don't know, but Jesus immediately questions her about her husband(s). In short, salvation involves a bit of self-reflection, spiritual awakening, and hunger, and coming to terms with what we truly want.

I suppose one might call that an "offer," but upon reflection, it seems more like a drawing out and a spiritual awakening than an offer to be accepted or rejected.

Follow me?

 

[marks]

I can't remember an offer of salvation anywhere in the NT.

I'm not sure what words you would need to read to define a passage as an "offer".

Here is one place that speaks this way to me:

Matthew 11:28-30 KJV
28) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29) Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Much love!

 

[Ritajanice]

Short commentary.

Colossians 1:29 Teaches Us that Christ Empowers Us to do the Things He Called Us to do. I'm just getting started, all the different things God's called us to do. I can't do any of those things apart from his power at work within me, and neither can you.