Universalism is a dangerous doctrine
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Sounds like a horrible imagination. It was after all a parable on the state of the dead. That changes with revelation.
You remind me of God chastening those who are his. Some today believe as believers they are to chasten others? Why do you think that is?
I understand in the role of a parent and a child, but not after growing up and dealing with other adults. Aren’t we to pray and ask God to help them in their life? Cause we definitely are not the answer for rest, Jesus is.
Wrangler
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Rev 20 They will be TORMENTED day and night FOREVER ...
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This applies to a class of beings who are not human - but fallen angels.
2Ti 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
And I think some people have more of a gift for it than others.
Please read the Bible. It clearly includes BILLIONS of humans.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Same back at you. Being put into everlasting fire does not mean you burn everlasting.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Jack, you have shown yourself more ignorant of Scripture on these boards than anyone else's posts that I've read.
I'll type this slowly in the hopes you understand. If eternal torment is the price for sin, then Jesus did not pay the price. And his sacrifice was for nothing!
Recognize the difference between a fire that is eternal from never ending torment.
Such irony!
No Scripture quotes? I have plenty.
And you say I'm ignorant of Scripture?
Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Getting to know my Father Who has, is and will administer His justice, I have come to know His love expressed by His mercy and grace.
While I was living according to my nature, serving myself any way I could at every chance I could and not believing in Jesus, I was condemned and destined to be separated from God.
But while I was facing judgement from my Creators, deserving separation and punishment from God for my life choices, something very unexpected happened. I was brought to my senses and I was made aware of someone who could help me.
I asked God to forgive me. He showed me how He had provided a way to escape certain judgment and eternal condemnation.
God showed mercy towards me and cleared my long list of offences. He took me off everlasting death row and gave me a new start as a redeemed, reconciled child of His.
If He can do that for me, then He can do that for anyone else who repents and seeks their Creator's mercy and grace.
I know that everyone will repent and their Creators will love them, forgive and accept them, taking them from their prison and allow them to enjoy Their company from that point on, without end
Well you just destroyed the Bible, for you. Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.
Luke 16
19 "The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
You may have interpreted that story correctly and come to a right conclusion.
Yet may I add a further conclusion. After many angels and humans have been tormented in Hades, they come to their senses, repent and are reconciled to their Creators. Then all will be saved from ongoing punishment and torment which we all deserve and we will all be together with our Creators. Now that sounds like victory, success, and the ultimate good news. Don't you agree.
All glory to the sovereign Creators Who do all things extremly well. These are Who I worship, for Their mercy and loving kindness endures FOREVER.
After many angels and humans have been tormented in Hades, at some stage in eternity, after they have suffered a while, they come to their senses like in the story Jesus told of the prodigal son. Lucifer remembers the goodness of his Creators and repents. It's not a surprise when they are forgiven and reconciled with their Creators. Then all will be saved from ongoing punishment and torment which we all deserve and we will all be together with our Creators. Now that sounds like victory, success, and the ultimate good news. Don't you agree?
God was going to destroy people in the past but someone prayed and asked God to show mercy by withdrawing His intended judgment. If we were to stop reading halfway through these stories then we would have no doubt that God would carry out His judgment. But we know that God can be moved to the point of withdrawing His wrath, anger, judgment and condemnation. His Son, the sacrificial Lamb proved this to be true.
I'm extremely grateful to know the heart of my Father that He longs for reconciliation over alienation, love over hate, mercy over punishment, grace over cruelty and torment.
I hope you know Him in this way but if you don't then I pray that you will, and therefore be comforted as I am by this knowledge of such a benevolent sovereign Father. And this knowing of Father is experiential and personal, which makes me love Him even more.
It would be foolish of me to assume that John saw the full story about the Creators, to its end. And even more foolish, to think that what he wrote down was the completed story, the end of the everlasting story, the revelation of the Creators.
God was going to destroy people in the past but someone prayed and asked God to show mercy by withdrawing His intended judgment. If we were to stop reading halfway through these stories then we would have no doubt that God would carry out His judgment. But we know that God can be moved to the point of withdrawing His wrath, anger, judgment and condemnation. His Son, the sacrificial Lamb proved this to be true.
I'm extremely grateful to know the heart of my Father that He longs for reconciliation over alienation, love over hate, mercy over punishment, grace over cruelty and torment.
I hope you know Him in this way but if you don't then I pray that you will, and therefore be comforted as I am by this knowledge of such a benevolent sovereign Father. And this knowing of Father is experiential and personal, which makes me love Him even more.
It would be foolish of me to assume that John saw the full story about the Creators, to its end. And even more foolish, to think that what he wrote down was the completed story, the end of the everlasting story, the revelation of the Creators.
Your opinions do not overrule Jesus.
Pay attention: Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER!
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