Where does the Pope get his authority?

[Brakelite]

Do you believe that the Universe is just 6000 years old?

Actually no. And the earth was already present, although described as being without form and void, when God started creation of the earth and everything on it, and the such lights etc to given seasons and times. Nor am I so arrogant as to assume than mankind are the only life forms in existence in the universe. But I believe God's word. 6 days for those specific things described in Genesis.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Actually no. And the earth was already present, although described as being without form and void, when God started creation of the earth and everything on it, and the such lights etc to given seasons and times. Nor am I so arrogant as to assume than mankind are the only life forms in existence in the universe. But I believe God's word. 6 days for those specific things described in Genesis.

Since you have provided not a single shred of evidence for the SDA‘s obsession with the Sabbath, all I can say is, ‘go in peace and observe whatever you think is right’….I personally have no issue with anyone wanting to have a day of rest to worship God….but to make it a requirement for Christians is not scriptural…..and your lack of anything biblical to support your argument is a testimony all by itself.

The Hebrew word for “day” has many meanings. It’s not just a 24 hour period.
Sorry if that is an inconvenient truth for you….

 

[RedFan]

I clicked on your link and it does not take me to a place where I can read a bit about what the book supports. It does mention the trinity. Now if you teach there's any kind of a trinity. Then your book and your award winning metal needs to be put in the trash.

OK, I'll bite. If you couldn't read about what the book supports, how can you "have already found a whole bunch of lies from you concerning biblical data" (your Post #549)??????

 

[Brakelite]

Since you have provided not a single shred of evidence for the SDA‘s obsession with the Sabbath, all I can say is, ‘go in peace and observe whatever you think is right’….I personally have no issue with anyone wanting to have a day of rest to worship God….but to make it a requirement for Christians is not scriptural…..and your lack of anything biblical to support your argument is a testimony all by itself.

The Hebrew word for “day” has many meanings. It’s not just a 24 hour period.
Sorry if that is an inconvenient truth for you….

This thread is all about, or supposed to be, papal authority. Sunday was established in the church by no-one other than papal authority. That's history. And the burden of proof for observing Sabbath isn't on me, and to claim the ten commandments were only for the Jews has always been the most shallow of arguments. In the context of church history, it is always Sunday meeting churches that have legislated on behalf of Sunday, and persecuted Sabbath keepers. I have nothing to prove. What I do have is religious freedom, which history, and prophecy, cries out is a previous gift of God, so I don't need your permission or approval or tolerance in the matter. But thanks anyway.

 

[The Learner]

H3117 - yôm - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H3117 - יוֹם yôwm, yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):—age, always, chronicals...

www.blueletterbible.org

Words are not just from lexicons, dictionaries --- context defines its meaning.

You searched for Bible | Astronomy Magazine

www.astronomy.com

 

[Peterlag]

OK, I'll bite. If you couldn't read about what the book supports, how can you "have already found a whole bunch of lies from you concerning biblical data" (your Post #549)??????

From the conversation I had with you on a number of posts seems to strongly suggest you have no knowledge that the Catholic church is not of God and therefore it moved in and took over and completely wiped out the true Christian doctrine. You on a number of posts told me I had no evidence on such a concept when I have 100 percent evidence because what the Catholic church teaches is not the Christian Bible. If you or anyone knew the Scriptures. Then you would not be asking me for more evidence. And that tells me you do not know the Scriptures and therefore must believe some other doctrine which is a lie. You are probably a good man and very sincere. But if you think the Catholics are correct in what they teach and were the real Christian church that took over from the apostles. Then you believe and teach a lie.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This thread is all about, or supposed to be, papal authority. Sunday was established in the church by no-one other than papal authority. That's history.

And it is a history that I have no argument with…..JW’s are not Sabbath keepers in any strict or particular way. We have no Sunday Sabbath because there was no requirement to observe a Sabbath if you were not Jewish….the Law was not given to any other people.

And the burden of proof for observing Sabbath isn't on me, and to claim the ten commandments were only for the Jews has always been the most shallow of arguments.

The Ten Commandments were part of the Law, not separate from it. And most of the principles associated with those Commandments pertain to us in Christ’s teachings. He observed the Sabbath because he was Jewish and under the Law until his sacrificial death released us from the written code, and brought us under ‘the Law of Love’….written on hearts, and enforced by a Bible trained conscience.

In the context of church history, it is always Sunday meeting churches that have legislated on behalf of Sunday, and persecuted Sabbath keepers.

JW’s are not Sunday meeting churches, because, like all Christians, we are not shackled to the Old Covenant that God made with the Jews.
Deut 5:12-15…
”Observe the Sabbath day to keep it sacred, just as Jehovah your God commanded you. 13 You are to labor and do all your work in six days, 14 but the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, neither you nor your son nor your daughter nor your slave man nor your slave girl nor your bull nor your donkey nor any of your domestic animals nor your foreign resident who is inside your cities, in order that your slave man and your slave girl may rest the same as you. 15 Remember that you became a slave in the land of Egypt and that Jehovah your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. That is why Jehovah your God commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.”

No one observed the Sabbath before then…..not a word about it until God gave Israel his law.
When freed from the Law, Christians no longer had to circumcise their males or observe a Sabbath. It was not a requirement, but there was no prohibition either…..can you not accommodate that at all?

The Sabbath that God blessed and sanctified at the conclusion of his creation in Genesis, is not a literal day of the “week”….that observance was between God and Israel to commemorate their liberation from slavery in Egypt. The real Sabbath was for the blessing of all mankind, as it would see the resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, redeemed by the blood of Christ, to give all opportunity to gain everlasting life.

I have nothing to prove. What I do have is religious freedom, which history, and prophecy, cries out is a previous gift of God, so I don't need your permission or approval or tolerance in the matter. But thanks anyway.

I acknowledge that and it is indeed your choice to believe as you wish…just know that being fixated on only one small aspect of God’s law seems to make you blind to the more important things…..like the preaching of the Kingdom as Jesus instructed. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20)

 

[RedFan]

From the conversation I had with you on a number of posts seems to strongly suggest you have no knowledge that the Catholic church is not of God and therefore it moved in and took over and completely wiped out the true Christian doctrine. You on a number of posts told me I had no evidence on such a concept when I have 100 percent evidence because what the Catholic church teaches is not the Christian Bible. If you or anyone knew the Scriptures. Then you would not be asking me for more evidence. And that tells me you do not know the Scriptures and therefore must believe some other doctrine which is a lie. You are probably a good man and very sincere. But if you think the Catholics are correct in what they teach and were the real Christian church that took over from the apostles. Then you believe and teach a lie.

If you've read my posts, you know I am not Roman Catholic. I'm Episcopalian -- and I am happy to agree that the RCC teaches doctrines not found in "the Christian Bible."

So I'll ask again: if you truly "found a whole bunch of lies" in my posts "concerning biblical data," kindly list a few of them. A post asking you to produce evidence to support your propositions cannot be a "lie." (You might want to consult Webster's Dictionary rather than "the Christian Bible" for that one.) That's what you said -- you "found a whole bunch of lies" in what I wrote. That's very different from concluding that I just "do not know the Scriptures and therefore must believe some other doctrine which is a lie." I'm asking you about what I said that was a lie. A bunch of times, according to you. So please support your accusation. If you cannot, please stop calling me a liar.

 

[amigo de christo]

Just read up on a lot of pagan history and you will see a lot of the same in the Catholics.

YEP just read the old testament , see what the jews did , see how the city became the harlot
SEE the same pattern with the RCC do ya . YEP
the HARLOT sleeps not my friend
and as the many jews fell away
it was foretold a great falling away would also occur with christendom .
THERE AINT NUTTING NEW under that ol sun . THE WHORE that reigned over JERSUALEM
REIGNS NOW FROM THE RCC and over the world .

 

[Peterlag]

If you've read my posts, you know I am not Roman Catholic. I'm Episcopalian -- and I am happy to agree that the RCC teaches doctrines not found in "the Christian Bible."

So I'll ask again: if you truly "found a whole bunch of lies" in my posts "concerning biblical data," kindly list a few of them. A post asking you to produce evidence to support your propositions cannot be a "lie." (You might want to consult Webster's Dictionary rather than "the Christian Bible" for that one.) That's what you said -- you "found a whole bunch of lies" in what I wrote. That's very different from concluding that I just "do not know the Scriptures and therefore must believe some other doctrine which is a lie." I'm asking you about what I said that was a lie. A bunch of times, according to you. So please support your accusation. If you cannot, please stop calling me a liar.

Is this not what you believe and teach?

One of the promises that God the Father made to Israel was that a Messiah would come into the world to bring all humans into a full relationship with God. As Christians we believe that this Messiah came in the form and person of Jesus, born as a human. Though fully human in body, but the spirit of Jesus was that of God itself. This represents the second aspect of the Trinity, Jesus Christ the ‘Son.

What this means to Christians is that while we embrace the teachings of Jesus the man, while we strive to emulate his life and works, we also pray to Jesus as God to intervene in the world and our lives and give us the strength and forgiveness to live our lives according to those teachings. The Spirit is often seen as the creative energy that’s at work in the world, whereas God the Father ‘willed’ the world to come into being, God the Holy Spirit was the force that brought this into being.

 

[Brakelite]

the Law was not given to any other people.

And most of the principles associated with those Commandments pertain to us in Christ’s teachings.

Scriptures inform us Christians that there are more deeper aspects to our understanding of the role of the law than you are suggesting. While you intimated correctly, that love fulfills the law, you cannot make that concept as a generalisation for all the law given to Israel. Not can you sort your theory that you are free from the law of God, the Ten Commandments. Here's James talking to you...
KJV James 2:8-11
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: (this is exactly what you said)
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. (I am not suggesting you do this, but if you do, as James is saying...)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (And we must keep the whole law, for how can God judge anyone except the law is the standard in the judgement?
So what law is James talking about in these passages?)
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
(Clearly James is talking about the law of God. He is not discussing circumcision, sacrifices, washing of hands, or disposal of offal. He is talking about what he describes as that law which will be used in the judgement...
KJV James 2:12
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Now. It wasn't me or other Seventh Day Adventists that place the Sabbath law in amongst the Ten Commandments, that same law that is to be used in the judgement. If God, and His Son Who stood on Sinai talking with Moses, saw fit to place the Sabbath on equal footing to the other 9 Commandments, who are we to argue otherwise? Are not the other 9 laws pertinent to all men? Did not Jesus state that the Sabbath was made for all men? Your protests that the Sabbath was only for the Jews is presumption based on circumstantial evidence, whilst ignoring Christ's own words to the contrary. Not only so, but the early church, beginning from the women who after observing the Sabbath "according to the commandment" (Luke 23:56) had intended to dress the body of Jesus on Sunday morning, the first day of the week, continued to observe the Sabbath for centuries until persecuted and bullied out of that practise.

brought us under ‘the Law of Love’….written on hearts, and enforced by a Bible trained conscience.

When freed from the Law,

What law are we free from , and why?

Christians no longer had to circumcise their males or observe a Sabbath.

I see no law in favour of circumcision among the Ten Commandments.

Christians no longer had to circumcise their males or observe a Sabbath. It was not a requirement, but there was no prohibition either…..can you not accommodate that at all?

No. If God placed a Sabbath Commandment among the 10, after declaring it with thunder and lightning and all manner of drama on Mt Sinai, and promoted it with substantial unequalled fervour throughout the remaining of the OT, and if as you say it was only for Jews, then Jews in the NT ought to expect at the very least a "thus saith the Lord' in support of its abolition or change. And as you also said, n there was not a whimper or a whisper from the Jewish legalists regarding any supposed change in the nature of the Sabbath, whether changed or abolished. Which means they had no issue with Jewish Christians regarding that day... Because they never ceased to observe it.

The Sabbath that God blessed and sanctified at the conclusion of his creation in Genesis, is not a literal day of the “week”

So until Sinai the World was observing a 6 day week?

The real Sabbath was for the blessing of all mankind, as it would see the resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, redeemed by the blood of Christ, to give all opportunity to gain everlasting life.

Conjecture. You are guessing. And the reason you are taking this fishing expedition is because all you have is bait, and nothing more in support of your Babylonian theory.

just know that being fixated on only one small aspect of God’s law

Fixated? One small aspect? And you now admit it is a part of the law. You obviously haven't really read the OT have you. Tell the Lord of the Sabbath that His day and the 4th commandment are only one small aspect. Ask yourself some questions.
If Satan has seen fit to lead his baby, the Antichrist papal power to change the Sabbath from the 7th day to the first, then persecute anyone who chooses to obey the commandments of God as opposed to the commandments of man, and then encourage the entire Protestant world bar one or two small exceptions to follow the papal power in ignoring the 4th Commandment while claiming falsely they are honouring the other 9, why do you think this is? Why do you think the future global apostasy, Babylon the Great, is even now promoting Sunday sacredness in the halls of political power throughout the world, and encouraging penalties for transgressors? Why is it that prophecy informs us that the final remnant of God's people immediately before the second coming are attacked, and a death sentence passed against them, because they keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. (See Revelation 12,13,14). What specific Commandment do you think bothers them so much?

 

[Peterlag]

YEP just read the old testament , see what the jews did , see how the city became the harlot
SEE the same pattern with the RCC do ya . YEP
the HARLOT sleeps not my friend
and as the many jews fell away
it was foretold a great falling away would also occur with christendom .
THERE AINT NUTTING NEW under that ol sun . THE WHORE that reigned over JERSUALEM
REIGNS NOW FROM THE RCC and over the world .

Do you have a verse on this great falling away. The only verse that comes to mind is the gathering together of the saints. Also if I may comment on the Catholics. Not only do they teach all this pagan garbage. But they also do not teach any of the Christian doctrine. Everything they teach is to keep people away from the Lord. Even this image of the bloody Jesus on the cross is where they want him. Defeated, bloody and dead. I write about the resurrected Christ as the Messiah who has been highly exalted when he was made both Lord and Christ.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Do you have a verse on this great falling away. The only verse that comes to mind is the gathering together of the saints. Also if I may comment on the Catholics. Not only do they teach all this pagan garbage. But they also do not teach any of the Christian doctrine. Everything they teach is to keep people away from the Lord. Even this image of the bloody Jesus on the cross is where they want him. Defeated, bloody and dead. I write about the resurrected Christ as the Messiah who has been highly exalted when he was made both Lord and Christ.

This is a valid point actually…..how Jesus is portrayed in Catholic art and statuary is how they want people to see him….as either a helpless baby or as a dead man hanging on a cross…..neither depicts the conquering King that our Lord Jesus became upon his return to heaven.
In the Revelation this “King of kings and Lord of lords” rides in victory, leading his angelic army into battle….

Rev 19: 11-16…
”I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. 12 His eyes are a fiery flame, and on his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is clothed with an outer garment stained* with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God. 14 Also, the armies in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. 15 And out of his mouth protrudes a sharp, long sword with which to strike the nations, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. Moreover, he treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 On his outer garment, yes, on his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.”

There he is….not portrayed in any manner such as he is portrayed in Roman Catholicism.

He is a mighty King about to take vengeance upon the nations who have shown his Father no respect, and upon whom he pours out the wrath of God in judging those nations who have made themselves enemies of God.

Revelation 19:19-21 says….
“I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war with the one seated on the horse and with his army. And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur. But the rest were killed off with the long sword of the one seated on the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth. And all the birds were filled from the fleshy parts of them.”

This is a war against the human enemies of God who are gathered on the side of the devil as God’s adversaries. All who side with them, will be counted in with them….Just as God said about “Babylon the great”…..those who obey the directive to “get out of her my people, if you do not want to save in her sins and receive part of her plagues”, (Rev 18:4-5) will have separated from all false worship sown by the devil, and will be in the safest of hands when this world is brought to its well deserved end.

Where will we be found?…..by our words and actions we proclaim our position…..for God….or against him.
For true worship…..or supporting a disgusting counterfeit.

 

[RedFan]

Is this not what you believe and teach?

One of the promises that God the Father made to Israel was that a Messiah would come into the world to bring all humans into a full relationship with God. As Christians we believe that this Messiah came in the form and person of Jesus, born as a human. Though fully human in body, but the spirit of Jesus was that of God itself. This represents the second aspect of the Trinity, Jesus Christ the ‘Son.

What this means to Christians is that while we embrace the teachings of Jesus the man, while we strive to emulate his life and works, we also pray to Jesus as God to intervene in the world and our lives and give us the strength and forgiveness to live our lives according to those teachings. The Spirit is often seen as the creative energy that’s at work in the world, whereas God the Father ‘willed’ the world to come into being, God the Holy Spirit was the force that brought this into being.

I don't teach anything, and what I believe is irrelevant to this conversation. Let's leave the Episcopal Church out of it, and any "lies" it may or may not perpetuate. You accused me of lying on this site a bunch of times, in what I wrote. Either back up that accusation, or apologize.

 

[Marymog]

Since you have provided not a single shred of evidence for the SDA‘s obsession with the Sabbath, all I can say is, ‘go in peace and observe whatever you think is right’….I personally have no issue with anyone wanting to have a day of rest to worship God….but to make it a requirement for Christians is not scriptural…..and your lack of anything biblical to support your argument is a testimony all by itself.

The Hebrew word for “day” has many meanings. It’s not just a 24 hour period.
Sorry if that is an inconvenient truth for you….

Hey Jane,

I am a day late and a dollar short on this conversation so it may have already been addressed. Does this passage fulfil the requirement to support a day of rest:

On the seventh day God completed the work he had been doing; he rested on the seventh day from all the work he had undertaken.

 

[amigo de christo]

Never sit under a HARLOT
for her love will make thee sick and lead only to the second death .

 

[Ritajanice]

Never sit under a HARLOT
for her love will make thee sick and lead only to the second death .

Isn’t a harlot a prostitute.

Where’s the connection with the pope?

Sorry I’m a bit slow in some areas,xx

 

[Ritajanice]

Never sit under a HARLOT
for her love will make thee sick and lead only to the second death .

Unless of course God brings her to repentance/ Godly sorrow,xx

Best not forget to believe the name of Jesus...xx

 

[amigo de christo]

Isn’t a harlot a prostitute.

Where’s the connection with the pope?

Sorry I’m a bit slow in some areas,xx

a harlot can be one who sleeps with men and etc
but a THE HARLOT is spiritual .
her fornication is against GOD and her cup is full of it too .
The harlot rides upon the beast and many do her work .
to cause the peoples to commit fornication . and i dont mean physical fornication
but rather spiritual fornication with el diablo himself .
Just a friendly reminder to all .
as far as the popes , DONT HEED A ONE OF THEM .
and believe me when i say PETER was never a pope .
WHEN peter entered in the house of cornelious
and cornilieous tried to kneel before him
HE did not say HEY BOY , wait till i am seated in my chair and kiss my ring .
HE SAID GET THE HECK UP man , i am but a man like YOU .
EVERY POPE has been called and loved to be called MOST HOLY REVERAND OR FATHER . SUMTHING AINT RIGHT SISTER .
SUM , i say SOMETHING aint right at all with that picture .
JESUS warned even his own to beware of men who go about with long robes and to be seen of men
and called this or that . YET , OOOPS many are not bewaring such men at all .

 

[amigo de christo]

Unless of course God brings her to repentance/ Godly sorrow,xx

GOD gave jeezabel some time but she repented not
and i dont seem to remember THE HARLOT who rides the beast REPENTING .
however you are right about one thing . It dont matter how much evil one did in his or her life
IF THEY REPENT TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST they are forgiven .
SO i would never tell anyone its too late for them . RATHER , ITS REPENT TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST
and learn THE BIBLICAL ONE . why do i say biblical one
CAUSE i see another jesus , another gospel , another love WHICH AINT COMING FROM GOD < JESUS OR THE SPIRIT
but Can use THAT NAME TO DECIEVE . so to all i say GET IN THEM BIBLES and TEST ALL MEN .