As was mention in our opening post there are three different views as to when the plagues take place, the first of these that they took place in the past has already been disproved, the second that they are yet future has a little bit more credibility, however we believe the facts will show that even this view is flawed.
“After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. And he cried [a]mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury…Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.” (Rev 18:1-3, 8)
(1) “ONE DAY”
“Proponents of the future view point to the last part of the foregoing texts, Verse 8 in support of their belief that the plagues occur in one literal year. Certainly, it’s true that at times, a day stands for a year in prophecy, however we don’t believe this to be the case here for several reasons:
The plagues in this verse are summarized as death, morning and famine. Note the order. DEATH occurs first; therefore, this particular death cannot be referring to the final destruction of Babylon. It must mean the spiritual death proclaimed in 1878 (viz., When Babylon was declared fallen, cast off, dead spiritually). Mourning and famine follow this. We suppose one year can accomplish mourning, but historically it seems Babylon has been in a mourning condition for some time. One thing is VERY HARD to accomplish in a literal year – FAMINE. Biblically, this takes time. A one-year famine is nowhere found in Scripture.
Now compare Verses 10, 17 and 19.
“…Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.”
“For in one hour such great riches came to nothing…”
“…For in one hour she is made desolate.”
Why does the time frame change?
Obviously the one hour refers to the same, one day as referred to in Verse 8.
Suddenly the time becomes an “hour”. This seems to be an indicator to us that “one day” was not intended to be chronological, but descriptive of a period with certain characteristics – such as Israel’s “day in the wilderness” – or many other indefinite “days” found in prophecy.
See, “How to study the book of Revelation, Part 40”, under “Words and Phrases” for a better understanding of this point.
The use of the phrase “repented not” at the end of two plagues in Chapter 16 (Verses, 9, 11) also suggests the passage of time. Once a bowl was poured, there was apparently time to think about it as well as to decide if a change in course was desired. All of this seems not well to fit into a literal one-year time frame.
(2) VICTORY OVER THE BEAST AND IMAGE
Again future-plague proponents use Scriptures containing these words to try to pinpoint time or location. We believe this to be scripturally erroneous. Look carefully at Rev 20:4
“And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” (NKJV)
Most of us agree that this verse has a date implied. It speaks of the time (1878 A.D., and following) when the sleeping saints are raised – they “come to life” and reign. It is clear to the utmost that this verse is NOT speaking only of the harvest saints. Yet, observe what is said of them: they “had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands”.
This qualification clearly applies to 1878 and previous saints and cannot, therefore be used to identify feet members of the body.
With respects to this last statement there is some concern, many brethren would disagree with this assumption (Myself included). We will address this issue at the conclusions of this segment, but first let us finish Brother Doran’s argument here, as he brings out several other key points.
“It is safe to conclude that this phrase, they “had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands”, CAN be used to identify those possessing it as BEING BEYOND THE VEIL. It is used that way in the verses we considered earlier: Rev 15:2-4. It is one more proof that Rev 15:2-4 is NOT about the saints in the flesh, but rather those resurrected already.
It is also generally held by future-plague proponents that the image of the beast has been “vitalized” prior to when the plagues are poured. Brother Russell (and most of us) believe that the vitalized image has a new name: THE FALSE PROPHET. But look carefully at the testimony of the plagues. The FALSE PROPHET is never mentioned in Revelation until 16:13 – during the SIXTH PLAGUE. As a matter of fact, it is still called simply the “image” in 16:2 during the first plague.
Scripturally then it seems safer to conclude that the image becomes vitalized somewhere between the first and sixths plague (not prior to their being poured).
Rev 16:15 warns the saints of the dangers of this false prophet. This strongly suggest that the saints are NOT YET SEALED during the sixth plague – a view contrary to most who hold the future plague view.
Those with the future view are forced to conclude that Rev 16:15 is a warning for the Great Company, not the saints. But as far as we can tell this was not Brother Russell’s view, and more importantly, seems contrary to Rev 3:21 which uses the same language to warn those who would be OVER-COMERS – not to warn the Great Company.
Rev 3:21 IS about our day – about the Laodicean Church.
This brings up another item which seems troubling. It is mostly future-plague believers who warn of the dangers to come during the “dark night” (the hour of power) under the deceptions of the false prophet. And, yet it is they who believe the church will be sealed at that time and therefore not subject to these dangers. We have then an interesting paradox:
How can the church overcome the vitalized image when it doesn’t exist until after the church has overcome?
And why do we spend platform time warning against something that can’t harm us?
WE DO BELIEVE IT CAN HARM US and is well worth the warnings. But a PROGRESSIVE VIEW of the plagues throughout the 20th Century is more in keeping with this concept.
We will take a look at our troubling statement above in our next post.
“After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. And he cried [a]mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury…Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.” (Rev 18:1-3, 8)
(1) “ONE DAY”
“Proponents of the future view point to the last part of the foregoing texts, Verse 8 in support of their belief that the plagues occur in one literal year. Certainly, it’s true that at times, a day stands for a year in prophecy, however we don’t believe this to be the case here for several reasons:
The plagues in this verse are summarized as death, morning and famine. Note the order. DEATH occurs first; therefore, this particular death cannot be referring to the final destruction of Babylon. It must mean the spiritual death proclaimed in 1878 (viz., When Babylon was declared fallen, cast off, dead spiritually). Mourning and famine follow this. We suppose one year can accomplish mourning, but historically it seems Babylon has been in a mourning condition for some time. One thing is VERY HARD to accomplish in a literal year – FAMINE. Biblically, this takes time. A one-year famine is nowhere found in Scripture.
Now compare Verses 10, 17 and 19.
“…Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.”
“For in one hour such great riches came to nothing…”
“…For in one hour she is made desolate.”
Why does the time frame change?
Obviously the one hour refers to the same, one day as referred to in Verse 8.
Suddenly the time becomes an “hour”. This seems to be an indicator to us that “one day” was not intended to be chronological, but descriptive of a period with certain characteristics – such as Israel’s “day in the wilderness” – or many other indefinite “days” found in prophecy.
See, “How to study the book of Revelation, Part 40”, under “Words and Phrases” for a better understanding of this point.
The use of the phrase “repented not” at the end of two plagues in Chapter 16 (Verses, 9, 11) also suggests the passage of time. Once a bowl was poured, there was apparently time to think about it as well as to decide if a change in course was desired. All of this seems not well to fit into a literal one-year time frame.
(2) VICTORY OVER THE BEAST AND IMAGE
Again future-plague proponents use Scriptures containing these words to try to pinpoint time or location. We believe this to be scripturally erroneous. Look carefully at Rev 20:4
“And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.” (NKJV)
Most of us agree that this verse has a date implied. It speaks of the time (1878 A.D., and following) when the sleeping saints are raised – they “come to life” and reign. It is clear to the utmost that this verse is NOT speaking only of the harvest saints. Yet, observe what is said of them: they “had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands”.
This qualification clearly applies to 1878 and previous saints and cannot, therefore be used to identify feet members of the body.
With respects to this last statement there is some concern, many brethren would disagree with this assumption (Myself included). We will address this issue at the conclusions of this segment, but first let us finish Brother Doran’s argument here, as he brings out several other key points.
“It is safe to conclude that this phrase, they “had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands”, CAN be used to identify those possessing it as BEING BEYOND THE VEIL. It is used that way in the verses we considered earlier: Rev 15:2-4. It is one more proof that Rev 15:2-4 is NOT about the saints in the flesh, but rather those resurrected already.
It is also generally held by future-plague proponents that the image of the beast has been “vitalized” prior to when the plagues are poured. Brother Russell (and most of us) believe that the vitalized image has a new name: THE FALSE PROPHET. But look carefully at the testimony of the plagues. The FALSE PROPHET is never mentioned in Revelation until 16:13 – during the SIXTH PLAGUE. As a matter of fact, it is still called simply the “image” in 16:2 during the first plague.
Scripturally then it seems safer to conclude that the image becomes vitalized somewhere between the first and sixths plague (not prior to their being poured).
Rev 16:15 warns the saints of the dangers of this false prophet. This strongly suggest that the saints are NOT YET SEALED during the sixth plague – a view contrary to most who hold the future plague view.
Those with the future view are forced to conclude that Rev 16:15 is a warning for the Great Company, not the saints. But as far as we can tell this was not Brother Russell’s view, and more importantly, seems contrary to Rev 3:21 which uses the same language to warn those who would be OVER-COMERS – not to warn the Great Company.
Rev 3:21 IS about our day – about the Laodicean Church.
This brings up another item which seems troubling. It is mostly future-plague believers who warn of the dangers to come during the “dark night” (the hour of power) under the deceptions of the false prophet. And, yet it is they who believe the church will be sealed at that time and therefore not subject to these dangers. We have then an interesting paradox:
How can the church overcome the vitalized image when it doesn’t exist until after the church has overcome?
And why do we spend platform time warning against something that can’t harm us?
WE DO BELIEVE IT CAN HARM US and is well worth the warnings. But a PROGRESSIVE VIEW of the plagues throughout the 20th Century is more in keeping with this concept.
We will take a look at our troubling statement above in our next post.
