God’S Laws Were In Effect And Observed Way Before They Were Given To Moses

[Duckybill]

Galatians 5:3 (NKJV)
[sup]3 [/sup]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

I am NOT answering this line of questioning again.

I don't blame you. I wouldn't want to either.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (NKJV)
[sup]18 [/sup]"If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, [sup]19 [/sup]then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. [sup]20 [/sup]And they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.' [sup]21 [/sup]Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.

 

[TexUs]

why God stopped animal sacrifice?

But but but but but.... I thought you said the OT Law was still to be followed. But now you said God stopped it.

Make up your mind. All I see is someone changing their arguments to avoid direct questioning because their logic doesn't hold up.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

[/size]
But but but but but.... I thought you said the OT Law was still to be followed. But now you said God stopped it.

Make up your mind. All I see is someone changing their arguments to avoid direct questioning because their logic doesn't hold up.

My mind is made up. I am not changing my arguments. God gave us sacrifice only for a time. When the schoolmaster came we were no longer under the laws of animal sacrifice. Paul told us this in many of his writings.

My logic is very sound!

Man has laws. And we all do our best to keep them.

God has law...and yet there are those of you that try to convince some that we are not obligated to keep them!

And you think that is sound logic?



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[TexUs]

So what basis are you picking and choosing what OT laws are applicable to you?

 

[Duckybill]

My mind is made up. I am not changing my arguments. God gave us sacrifice only for a time. When the schoolmaster came we were no longer under the laws of animal sacrifice. Paul told us this in many of his writings.

My logic is very sound!

Man has laws. And we all do our best to keep them.

God has law...and yet there are those of you that try to convince some that we are not obligated to keep them!

And you think that is sound logic?

You are a DEBTOR TO KEEP THE WHOLE LAW! Was animal sacrifices in THE LAW? Your inconsistency is quite glaring.

Galatians 5:1-4 (NKJV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. [sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. [sup]3 [/sup]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that HE IS A DEBTOR TO KEEP THE WHOLE LAW. [sup]4 [/sup]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

 

[Duckybill]

You have a HUGE glaring problem Eccl. Apparently you aren't aware that salvation is ONLY through Jesus.

Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you NOTHING.

 

[Eccl.12:13]

Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you NOTHING.

Listen.... I have asked you this once but did not get an answer.

Are you saying that ALL that have ever been circumcised, since Christ death, will NOT receive salvation?


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Was animal sacrifices in THE LAW? Your inconsistency is quite glaring.

YES! Animal sacrifice was in the law? What's your point?

Are you even aware of when a law becomes a law? I do not think you know?



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So what basis are you picking and choosing what OT laws are applicable to you?

Why are you having such a big problem with the words of God? You keep saying "It's all about Jesus!", Well, JESUS is the one that said, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

Jesus is the one that gave us the option of NOT killing those that break HIs laws, NOT me!

And just as He gave us an option for NOT killing, He also gave us an option of NOT KEEPING His laws! I have decided that me and my family would opt to do our best at KEEPING His laws!

He is the one that said, "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

And since He is the ONLY one that is going to judge, I think I will go with His advice!

You do what you please! I am only saying what thus said the Lord!



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[Duckybill]

Listen.... I have asked you this once but did not get an answer.

Are you saying that ALL that have ever been circumcised, since Christ death, will NOT receive salvation?

It's talking about YOU, if YOU get circumcised, Christ will profit YOU nothing. No salvation! Read it again until you get it.

Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you NOTHING.

YES! Animal sacrifice was in the law? What's your point?

You are a debtor to keep the whole Law, not just the parts you choose.

Are you even aware of when a law becomes a law? I do not think you know?

Why are you trying to change the subject? You're either under THE LAW or grace. Make up your mind.

John 1:17 (NKJV)
[sup]17 [/sup]For THE LAW was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Why are you having such a big problem with the words of God? You keep saying "It's all about Jesus!", Well, JESUS is the one that said, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

Jesus is the one that gave us the option of NOT killing those that break HIs laws, NOT me!

And just as He gave us an option for NOT killing, He also gave us an option of NOT KEEPING His laws! I have decided that me and my family would opt to do our best at KEEPING His laws!

He is the one that said, "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

And since He is the ONLY one that is going to judge, I think I will go with His advice!

You do what you please! I am only saying what thus said the Lord!

You are a debtor to keep the whole Law, including executions and animal sacrifices. You can't pick the commands you like.

 

[TexUs]

Why do you not follow these laws, Eccl?
"You should not let a sorceress live"
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death."
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death"
" Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death."
"All who curse their father or mother must be put to death."
" If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."

 

[Eccl.12:13]

[font="tahoma][size="2"]Why do you not follow these laws, Eccl?
"You should not let a sorceress live"
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death."
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."
"A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death"
" Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death."
"All who curse their father or mother must be put to death."
" If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death."
"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death."[/size][/font]

Because Christ said the following,

"....He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

He also told us this,

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

If I were sinless, then maybe I would cast the first stone at all those mentioned above, but I am a sinner, a breaker of Gods laws, just as all of us. Jesus tells us to leave the sinners be. Let them dwell with the righteous and He will punish them at HIs coming.

This is why I do not follow these laws. I really do not know any other way to answer you! I've answered your question several times already.


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[TexUs]

Because Christ said the following,

"....He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

You do realize this command was nowhere in the OT, correct?


So you are now admitting that Christ has, somehow (we'll address it), changed the old law?

 

[Eccl.12:13]

[/size]

"....He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

You do realize this command was nowhere in the OT, correct?

So you are now admitting that Christ has, somehow (we'll address it), changed the old law?

You know......the sad part is that there was in fact a law that was changed, and the bible is VERY clear about it, but somehow I doubt you know just which one it was.


Now....if you could, please tell the readers how is Jesus 'changing' any law by asking those present to examine themselves?

That is the ONLY commandmemt given in the verse.


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[TexUs]

Answer the question.

You do realize this command was nowhere in the OT, correct?


So you are now admitting that Christ has, somehow (we'll address it), changed the old law?

 

[Duckybill]

Eccl, you still have not addressed the circumcision issue.

Galatians 5:2 (NKJV)
[sup]2 [/sup]Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, CHRIST WILL PROFIT YOU NOTHING.

 

[Faithful]

In the beginning there was no sin. No breaking of any law. No unrighteousness.
But there was the Spirit of Truth the Holy Spirit Genesis 1:2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
In the OT the LORD is seen to say Zechariah 4:6.Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

The Word was with God in the beginning. Men are women are born of Spirit and Truth who belong to God.
Galatians 5; 1John 2:27 and John 16:13.
Galatians 5:Galatians 5:18 (King James Version)

18.But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

It is not that we always had a written law. But that the Holy Spirit was always the one person throughout the OT and NT to give a person life and knowledge of God. The truth always coming to man through him.

So truth has always been with us through Holy Men of God born through the Spirit.

Faithful :)