The Last Battle Happens In America!

[whirlwind]

I watched the Glen Beck show yesterday afternoon. If you're at all interested in today's events please tune in this week. He displayed a map of the middle east, showing how chaos is rapidly spreading...on to Europe and Great Britain! In seeing Jerusalem, as a David compassed with giants, it made me think of....

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.​

As he gave scenarios for what could happen, of who goes where and who does what on a global scale, Beck asked "and where does Russia go?" To that point the United States and Russia had not been mentioned. He didn't go beyond that question but...I shall:


Armageddon is a spiritual war, one being waged now but Gog is, I believe, literal! Where will it take place? America...Russia invading by way of Alaska.



Ezekiel 38:1-3 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

This speaks of Russia with it's "chief prince" being Moscow.​

38:4-6 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

It is God that fights this battle.

Today we see the alliance between Russia and Persia/Iran.​

38:7-8 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

We are the "land brought back from the sword," We are a nation of many people, both in number and in cultural makeup and....we dwell safely! We are Israel, the "house of Israel." If there is any question of this ask yourself...has the present nation of Israel, which is the "house of Judah," ever lived safely?​

38:9-12 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

Again...this describes America. We dwell safely, we don't have walled, protected villages, we are at rest, we are gathered out of many nations and we are wealthy..."gotten cattle and goods." This is NOT the nation of Israel.​

38:13-15 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil? Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when My people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

The merchants among us, our politicans, sell America to the world. Russia will come from "thy place out of the north parts." Look at a map...how close is Russia to America in the north parts?​

38:16-17 And thou shalt come up against My people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against My land, that the heathen may know Me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by My servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

God brings this about and God fights this battle for His purposes.​

38:18-20 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that My fury shall come up in My face. For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at My presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

"All the men that are upon the face of the earth," meaning this is world-wide. The battle happens here but the repercussions of this last great battle marks the end of this age.​

38:21-23 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all My mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify Myself, and sanctify Myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Brother against brother....Esau against Jacob...Russia against America.​

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[TexUs]

You realize those describe countless other countries, correct?

This post reminds me of nothing short than a TV Preacher trying to make money off sensationalized beliefs.

 

[Vengle53]

Many also apply 'Babylon the Great' at Revelation chapters 17 & 18 to the United States.

She is called "The Great Woman" which seems to correspond in that we are known to the world by our woman called Liberty. (The Statue of Liberty)

"Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

These prophesies can be easily seen these ways. But is it what they are telling us?

Revelation 18:7 "How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."

Why would she say "I am no widow, I shall see no sorrow"?

She believes that she is married to God. She believes that God founded her and will never desert her. That too could be said about America.

I want you to see that I am open-minedly looking at it your way to begin with.

Let me ponder a bit and all I ask is that you do the same for me when I respond with my understanding of it.

 

[hereister]

I see babylon the great, not being a place...but people and a state of being.

The root word of Babylon is Babble.....which means "confusion". Ancient babylon worshiped many gods....but not the one true God. I see babylon as also being the birth place to much mythology. Their false teachings, their false gods has spread and led to confusion. Their early priests, did know some truths...but they mixed it with lies...whereas, when the truth is presented....all credibility is lost.

During King Neb's time....it was a type of one world religion...as when he made the golden statue for all to worship. This ties into the endtimes.

When satan is here, the whole world will wonder after the beast.... the whole world will worship him....all except those written in the lambs book of life from the foundations of the world. The whole world will be whoring after satan instead of staying spiritual virgins until the true Christ returns. They will commit the great apostacy...they will be part of babylon the great...the world's false religion.....worshipping satan believing him to be Crhist returned.

Babylon is the be all of false religions.... Satan will be sitting in Jerusalem claiming to be Christ.... Satan is the antichrist.

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
(her fornications- we are to be true to our husband...Christ. These are not, they are worshipping satan, committing spiritual fornication)


Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
(They are to come out of the deception, to wake up.....see what's going on. Many do come out of babylon when God's elect are delivered up and the holy spirit speaks through them.....Many eyes will be opened and they will see the deception. Satan always wanted to be God, and he will be playiing the part big time when he's here....He will come in peacefully and prosperously. We are not to worry when there are wars and rumors of wars....It's when they cry peace, peace, peace...then be alert. The only time, before Christ returns, that there will seem to be peace, although a false peace, is when satan is here playing Jesus and the world is in one accord.

 

[hereister]

I meant to say Babylon the great...is a world wide religion...with Satan at the head of it while he will sit in Jerusalem claiming to be God.

 

[Vengle53]

Here is the hidden wisdom: A principle God wants you to see is that a simple servant whom Satan uses to control human kind is named “flesh”. Matter not what a man in the sinful flesh pursues spiritually, at the same time he pursues the spiritual his flesh is busy building a fleshly imitation of it. This is in fact Adam’s condemned flesh rebelling against its punishment. And all of us wear that man.

There is an internal war in each one of us which gives birth to an external war. That external war more easily draws our attention. Thus we focus so intently on attempting to resolve the external war that we leave the internal war unattended.

We put our trust in external things and see those things as God's instruments with which to resolve the external war we focus on. But those external things that we trust in are nothing more than our flesh setting up its imitation to deceive us.

Why do we trust in those external things that are actually of the flesh? Because truth is that most of us are just like those Jews who had to have a sign in the flesh before they would believe. To become that way it only takes not seeing the invisible things going on inside us and around us.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 ¶And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Martin W.]

Where will it take place? America...Russia invading by way of Alaska..

.
Whirl:

North , south , east and west in the bible is always from the vantage point of Israel. Not America or Portugal or Sweden or me or you.

When Russia comes south to invade the Holy Land , they will most likely be joined by the Arab confederacy. From the East will also come an army of 200,000,000 soldiers.

China is to the East of Israel , and 30 years it ago boasted of having 200 million soldiers.

America is not directly mentioned in prophecy. Either they will have declined as a superpower or half the population has been removed by the rapture before Armageddon.

Anyone notice America decline recently and rapidly on the world stage ? It is just the beginning. Israel will be the focus. Prophecy is clear on that.

Best regards
Martin.

 

[tomwebster]

.
...
America is not directly mentioned in prophecy. Either they will have declined as a superpower or half the population has been removed by the rapture before Armageddon.

...Martin.

Wrong again marty, America is mentioned many times in prophecy if you know what you are looking for. There is NO rapture, zero, not 1 or 2 or 3. We don't go anywhere. Christ is coming here, to the Earth.

 

[TexUs]

America is not directly mentioned in prophecy. Either they will have declined as a superpower or half the population has been removed by the rapture before Armageddon.

I agree with the first part but disagree with the second.
As you said, it's not mentioned. So what makes you think they'll be declined as a superpower anyway? They aren't mentioned.
Also I don't believe the rapture anyway but we'll disagree on that.

Regardless, you acknowledge it's not mentioned. But then you do exactly as the people you quoted do and make a prophecy regarding "it must not be involved", no different than their, "it must be involved".


Additionally, to me, I see no special status of Israel anymore so even the Israel bandwagon I didn't even hop on.

Wrong again marty, America is mentioned many times in prophecy if you know what you are looking for. There is NO rapture, zero, not 1 or 2 or 3. We don't go anywhere. Christ is coming here, to the Earth.

Got to love those sensationalized beliefs.
"America is mentioned, but I sure as hell can't quote it."

 

[Martin W.]

Wrong again marty, America is mentioned many times in prophecy if you know what you are looking for. There is NO rapture, zero, not 1 or 2 or 3. We don't go anywhere. Christ is coming here, to the Earth.

Everyone knows Christ is coming back to earth Tom.

What happens to you when he does ? Same body ? New body ?

Does Christ stand on Mount Zion in Israel, or the Colorado Rockies ?

Your theories have endless snags Tom. My opinion.

 

[TexUs]

Martin don't you think it's silly that the church would be raptured up into heaven and then immediately brought back down?

There's no point in it unless you think God can't protect his people on earth.

 

[Martin W.]

I agree with the first part but disagree with the second.
As you said, it's not mentioned. So what makes you think they'll be declined as a superpower anyway? They aren't mentioned.
Also I don't believe the rapture anyway but we'll disagree on that.

Regardless, you acknowledge it's not mentioned. But then you do exactly as the people you quoted do and make a prophecy regarding "it must not be involved", no different than their, "it must be involved".


Additionally, to me, I see no special status of Israel anymore so even the Israel bandwagon I didn't even hop on.

Hi Tex.
The decline of America (as a superpower) is just an assumption without backup support. It is based on the fact that the end times will be nation against nation in the middle east and if America was still a superpower it would think it should be more prominent.
Like I said , it is more reading between the lines , rather than factually based.

By the way , on the subject of rapture and America , and Christians being "Kept from the wrath" I have also considered the possibility that America will not be directly involved in the middle east and we are kept "safe" here at home. Maybe that is what happens. Only a guess.

Most of these scenarios are simply 'best guesses' because of the lack of clear information in the bible.. For any of us to claim to know exactly what will happen is an error. I have never been rigid in any one doctrine. The Lord will do exactly what he has planned and my opinions will not change it.

I agree with your questioning of my earlier comments but remain firm that Israel (the Nation) is central focus in end times. The OT is perfectly clear on that. I am just not able to see it any other way.

thanks
Martin.

 

[TexUs]

It is based on the fact that the end times will be nation against nation in the middle east

Where's that fact?

By the way , on the subject of rapture and America , and Christians being "Kept from the wrath" I have also considered the possibility that America will not be directly involved in the middle east and we are kept "safe" here at home. Maybe that is what happens. Only a guess.

Good theory but then the evil people here escape it too?

I agree with your questioning of my earlier comments but remain firm that Israel (the Nation) is central focus in end times. The OT is perfectly clear on that. I am just not able to see it any other way.

I see that the NT is perfectly clear that the fulfillment of Christ led to the "New Israel"- his body, his bride, the Church.

 

[Martin W.]

Martin don't you think it's silly that the church would be raptured up into heaven and then immediately brought back down?

There's no point in it unless you think God can't protect his people on earth.

(in my opinion) (if there is a rapture) the function is Jesus comes for his church (the gathering) . He says he will gather us some day , first those who are dead (ressurection) and immediately afterwards , we who are still alive. I expect we will have transformed bodies similar to the resurrected dead.

I think it is separate event when Jesus comes for his church and later with his church. In other words I have never felt that we are taken up for a split second only to come right back down , although it could very well happen that way.

Bottom line is that some day the Lord will have to change the living Christian flesh to an eternal body.. This is what the rapture is. It is the timing that is uncertain.

It certainly is possible God can keep us safe down here during the great tribulation, he has done similar in the past , but the fact remains he will still have to "rapture" us to change us "in the clouds in the air"

Assuming the non-rapture position like many on this forum (keeps us on earth during tribulation) , then after he returns (to earth) he would later have to pop up into the clouds to bring us up , translate us , and then bring us right back down.

We are right back where we started on the topic "taken up" and immediately "back down" . This dilema remains for both sides of the rapture debate. Not just for my position

 

[TexUs]

Bottom line is that some day the Lord will have to change the living Christian flesh to an eternal body.. This is what the rapture is. It is the timing that is uncertain.

It certainly is possible God can keep us safe down here during the great tribulation, he has done similar in the past , but the fact remains he will still have to "rapture" us to change us "in the clouds in the air"

Why can't he change us on earth?

Additionally let me ask... What does he do with the dead bodies. You assume he animates them, brings them back with the living church, we all go go heaven, and the bodies are exchanged there? Then he eventually brings heaven down to earth?

Assuming the non-rapture position like many on this forum (keeps us on earth during tribulation) , then after he returns (to earth) he would later have to pop up into the clouds to bring us up , translate us , and then bring us right back down.

We are right back where we started on the topic "taken up" and immediately "back down" . This dilema remains for both sides of the rapture debate. Not just for my position

No, actually I don't believe in a pop up and down, you created that presupposition for both views yourself.

Maybe I'm speaking for him. I guess my views differ more than most, I just take what I see Biblically and try to make a little sense out of it.

 

[Martin W.]

Good theory but then the evil people here escape it too?.

Now you are asking me to defend a scenario I do not subscribe to. It has always been my opinion (best guess) that the Christians have been removed from earth and everybody that remains is subject to the wrath. Several places in Revelation states all the inhabitants on earth are accounted for , and are recipients of wrath , but the church is absent and not the recipient of wrath. .

Having the church absent in the tribulation allows the least amount of theological snags in end times construction.

Having the church remain , has the most theological snags .

Bottom line is there are two possibilities :
1. God keeps us here and safe.
2. God removes us and keeps us safe.

I have never been able to understand why some folks hate the fact that we may be removed and kept safe. It is like they are determined we must remain. Go figure.

 

[TexUs]

I will give you this: The movement to the New Jerusalem's gates.

Do us in America, have to catch a ride on a boat? And journey for months?

This seems to suggest a super natural movement of SOME SORT to place the church inside the gates. I will give you that much.

 

[Martin W.]

Why can't he change us on earth?

I have no doubt he could change us here on earth. None whatsoever.

My problem is that it clearly says we will meet Jesus in the clouds in the air and be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

To be changed "here on earth" is never mentioned.

That is how I form my opinion.

 

[Martin W.]

I will give you this: The movement to the New Jerusalem's gates.

Do us in America, have to catch a ride on a boat? And journey for months?

This seems to suggest a super natural movement of SOME SORT to place the church inside the gates. I will give you that much.

I certainly agree that some day in the future all the nations will stream to the New Jerusalem. The logistics are mind boggling. I do not know how it will be accomplished. Not only that , it continues forever and ever.

But to me it is far future , after the 1000 years , then the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven and we all stream to it.

The tribulation wrath and rapture (or lack of rapture) are a much earlier event.

I hope there are helicopters , that is how I want to get there (smile)

There are some days I love helicopter more than I love my Lord . (just kidding Lord)

 

[bud02]

Now you are asking me to defend a scenario I do not subscribe to. It has always been my opinion (best guess) that the Christians have been removed from earth and everybody that remains is subject to the wrath. Several places in Revelation states all the inhabitants on earth are accounted for , and are recipients of wrath , but the church is absent and not the recipient of wrath. .

Having the church absent in the tribulation allows the least amount of theological snags in end times construction.

Having the church remain , has the most theological snags .

Bottom line is there are two possibilities :
1. God keeps us here and safe.
2. God removes us and keeps us safe.

I have never been able to understand why some folks hate the fact that we may be removed and kept safe. It is like they are determined we must remain. Go figure.

It creates snags of its own, the justification lies in the teaching, that after Christ resurection that we will have a Gentile time 2000 years and counting, then raptured. Directly followed by the fulfillment of Daniels 70 week, for the Nation or people of Israel, in that is the teaching that God deals with Israel and the Gentiles in a form of separate salvation. The first thing that pops into my head is, if God intentionally blinded Israel from Rom 11 to the beginning of the trib, just what happens to all the Israelites or Jews for the last 2000 years? Its like they received a sentence of death or no chance of salvation. Now if someone says that God will preserve them, then the message of the cross is made of no value, it becomes a lie. Jesus said He is the light, life and resurrection. those that reject Him do not receive salvation. Does God sentence 2000 years of generation after generation of Jews to death by blinding them? I don't think so.
Look here in the opening of Pauls eyes and heart. Acts 9:15 The testimony is that the Lord said to Ananias; that Paul was to take His name "Jesus" before both Jew and Gentiles. That in itself flies in the face of those that teach a time cut out as the 69th week of Daniel stands still for 2000 years and is called the time of the Gentiles. I simply can't understand how those that read and search the scriptures fail to see the problems this teaching produces. Then soom how the time of the Jews is fulfilled "the 70th week" with no accountability for all those generations of Jews. There are other problems as well, but that is a glaring in-justest, your saying God condemned those generations on account of their fathers.

Can you see the problem teachers today inject 2000+ years between the 69th and 70th week and call it THE TIME OF THE GENTILES................THE CHURCH AGE ...........what a bunch of bull.