The Last Battle Happens In America!

[TexUs]

Americans, including Glenn Beck, like to think that the entire planet revolves around the USA.

Actually the world financial system does and that's what Glenn Beck is speaking of most often.

In case the reader has been off the planet for the last sixty years or so, it is Israel that has been repeatedly attacked and Jerusalem, not Washington DC, which has been surrounded by enemies who want to exterminate every Jew in sight.

Ahh so the last 60 years are representative for the last 2000? Gotcha.




I do disagree with what you say about Israel though. I don't spiritualize Israel though but I understand it as more than a flesh and blood national kingdom (which is never how it started out).
The "Israel is Special" supporters like yourself start out, in my opinion, on flawed starting assumptions of who exactly God created a covenant with.

 

[Vengle53]

-- There are more scholared that those of us on this board still in disagreement on this topic so I would have a tough time taking anyone here who claims they have the definitive answer seriously.


I would share something interesting I recently read: http://bible.cc/1_th...onians/4-17.htm




Shall be caught up - The word here used implies that there will be the application of external force or power by which this will be done. It will not be by any power of ascending which they will themselves have; or by any tendency of their raised or changed bodies to ascend of their own accord, or even by any effort of their own will, but by a power applied to them which will cause them to rise. Compare the use of the word ἁρπάζω harpazō in Matthew 11:12, "the violent take it by force;" Matthew 13:19, "then cometh the wicked one and snatcheth away;" John 6:15, "that they would come and take him by force; John 10:12, "the wolf catcheth them;" Acts 8:39, "the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; 2 Corinthians 12:2, "such an one caught up to the third heaven;" also, John 12:28-29; Acts 23:10; Jde 1:23; Revelation 12:5. The verb does not elsewhere occur in the New Testament In all these instances there is the idea of either foreign force or violence effecting that which is done. What force or power is to be applied in causing the living and the dead to ascend, is not expressed. Whether it is to be by the ministry of angels, or by the direct power of the Son of God, is not intimated, though the latter seems to be most probable. The word should not be construed, however. as implying that there will be any reluctance on the part of the saints to appear before the Saviour, but merely with reference to the physical fact that power will be necessary to elevate them to meet him in the air. Will their, bodies then be such that they will have the power of locomotion at will from place to place?

In the clouds - Greek, "in clouds" - ἐν νεφέλαις en nephelais - without the article. This may mean "in clouds;" that is, in such numbers, and in such grouping as to resemble clouds. So it is rendered by Macknight, Koppe, Rosenmuller, Bush (Anasta. 266), and others. The absence of the article here would rather seem to demand this interpretation Still, however, the other interpretation may be true, that it means that they will be caught up into the region of the clouds, or to the clouds which shall accompany the Lord Jesus on his return to our world. Matthew 24:30; Matthew 26:64; Mark 16:19; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7; compare Daniel 7:13. In whichever sense it is understood, the expression is one of great sublimity, and the scene will be immensely grand. Some doctrine of this kind was held by the ancient Jews. Thus rabbi Nathan (Midras Tillin, 48:13) says, "What has been done before will be done again. As he led the Israelites from Egypt in the clouds of heaven, so will he do to them in the future time."

To meet the Lord in the air - In the regions of the atmosphere - above the earth. It would seem from this, that the Lord Jesus, in his coming, would not descend to the earth, but would remain at a distance from it in the air, where the great transactions of the judgment will occur. It is, indeed, nowhere said that the transactions of the judgment will occur upon the earth. The world would not be spacious enough to contain all the assembled living and dead, and hence the throne of judgment will be fixed in the ample space above it.

And so shall we ever be with the Lord - This does not mean that they will always remain with him in the air - for their final home will be heaven - and after the trial they will accompany him to the realms of glory; Matthew 25:34, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom," etc. The time during which they will remain with him "in the air" is nowhere mentioned in the Bible. It will be as long as will be necessary for the purposes of judging a world and deciding the eternal doom of every individual "according to the deeds done in the body." There is no reason to suppose that this will be accomplished in a single day of twenty-four hours; but it is impossible to form and conjecture of the period which will be occupied.

Matthew 24:46-47 "Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods."

This event is happening as Jesus and his angels also proceed to take by force the rulership away from this world and place it into the hands of the Lord's Elect ones. Thus these are caught into the air to be in union with Christ Jesus "over all his goods". This is as being caught into the air because it replaces the air of this old earth (its ruling heavens and the spirit which drives it).

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

They are not caught up as in being made to rise into the sky. But they are hidden from their enemies who are at that time seeking to destroy them, thus "caught together in a cloud" or "taken or snatched in a cloud" out of sight of their enemies while Jesus and the angels proceed to execute those enemies.

It borrows from the way God protected his people after they were liberated from Egypt. And this is at the stage were God's people are liberated from the modern day Egypt and Sodom in a spiritual sense. This entire old world has become like Egypt and Sodom of old.

 

[Vengle53]

Matthew 24:46-47 "Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods."

This event is happening as Jesus and his angels also proceed to take by force the rulership away from this world and place it into the hands of the Lord's Elect ones. Thus these are caught into the air to be in union with Christ Jesus "over all his goods". This is as being caught into the air because it replaces the air of this old earth (its ruling heavens and the spirit which drives it).

Ephesians 2:2 "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

They are not caught up as in being made to rise into the sky. But they are glorified in the sight of their enemies who are at that time seeking to destroy them, thus "caught together in a cloud" or "taken or snatched in a cloud" of safety in the sight of their enemies while Jesus and the angels then proceed to execute those enemies and all who do not repent.

It borrows from the way God protected his people after they were liberated from Egypt. And this is at the stage were God's people are liberated from the modern day Egypt and Sodom in a spiritual sense. This entire old world has become like Egypt and Sodom of old.

I'm sorry. I have to edit my previous post as I got one point backward. Jesus does not do this hidden out of sight of their enemies, Jesus glorifies them in the sight of their enemies. We can see this by comparing Revelation 11: 12-15

This then even as Israel was made untouchable by Pharaoh and his armies as they witnessed God's saving of his people with great and awe inspiring power.

Sorry. But hey, I'm not perfect, ya know. There are a couple other parallels supporting this.

 

[Martin W.]

Actually the world financial system does and that's what Glenn Beck is speaking of most often.

And Who controls the world financial system?? The names always sound Jewish to me.

Does that fit into the equation?? Just thinking out loud. Not trying to make a point of any kind. Just a thought that went through my mind as I am reading everything here.

Thanks
Martin

 

[veteran]

The OP posts a very important Message from our Lord's prophet Ezekiel involving God's people in the last days, and it then turns into a rapture and spirit vs. flesh debate involving the doctrines of men? Come on now people.

If you don't know who America is represented by in God's Word, then I can understand how you wouldn't understand the OP. Christian America is definitely not the Revelation Babylon, though that's what Christ's enemies want us to think. It's the pagan elements in America, and in all nations... that represent the endtime Babylon, and especially with fallen Jerusalem as their head city (in the future tribulation). That's why our Lord linked the Revelation Babylon harlot with a certain city.

Ezekiel 38 reveals Russia allied with Islam against Israel, and WHERE can we see that working today? In the state of Israel in the holy land only? No, it's happenning in the Christian west too! There's probably more Jews in America than in the middleast today, and that's something to think about.

And for those not aware, Russia has been wanting Alaska back ever since the U.S. bought it from them in the 1800's and Americans settled it to discover its great amount of natural resources. Russia has been claiming the fishing waters off the Aleutians never were part of that deal; in other words, Russia is becoming haughty today about Alaska while their pinko-allies in America black it out in their Leftist media outlets.

Around 700 A.D., the nations of Islam invaded southern Europe and Asia Minor. That invasion was not in the middleast, but upon the western Christian nations of that time. The main purpose for Columbus being commissioned to sail was to look for an alternate trade route to the east since Islam had conquered Byzantine and cut off the land trade routes from Europe to India and China. The king of France and Basque of northern Spain stopped the Islamic invasion in western Europe. The Christian crusades to the Holy Land started because of Islamic persecution against Christians there, not because of supposed Christian persecution of Islam. Christianity preaches make a choice who you will follow. Islam preaches to submit to Islam without choice.

But I guess World History 101 isn't taught anymore in U.S. schools, otherwise many of you would remember that history of Islam, instead of believing the lies Russia's "change agents" living in America have been putting out.

 

[Vengle53]

The OP posts a very important Message from our Lord's prophet Ezekiel involving God's people in the last days, and it then turns into a rapture and spirit vs. flesh debate involving the doctrines of men? Come on now people.

If you don't know who America is represented by in God's Word, then I can understand how you wouldn't understand the OP. Christian America is definitely not the Revelation Babylon, though that's what Christ's enemies want us to think. It's the pagan elements in America, and in all nations... that represent the endtime Babylon, and especially with fallen Jerusalem as their head city (in the future tribulation). That's why our Lord linked the Revelation Babylon harlot with a certain city.

Ezekiel 38 reveals Russia allied with Islam against Israel, and WHERE can we see that working today? In the state of Israel in the holy land only? No, it's happenning in the Christian west too! There's probably more Jews in America than in the middleast today, and that's something to think about.

And for those not aware, Russia has been wanting Alaska back ever since the U.S. bought it from them in the 1800's and Americans settled it to discover its great amount of natural resources. Russia has been claiming the fishing waters off the Aleutians never were part of that deal; in other words, Russia is becoming haughty today about Alaska while their pinko-allies in America black it out in their Leftist media outlets.

Around 700 A.D., the nations of Islam invaded southern Europe and Asia Minor. That invasion was not in the middleast, but upon the western Christian nations of that time. The main purpose for Columbus being commissioned to sail was to look for an alternate trade route to the east since Islam had conquered Byzantine and cut off the land trade routes from Europe to India and China. The king of France and Basque of northern Spain stopped the Islamic invasion in western Europe. The Christian crusades to the Holy Land started because of Islamic persecution against Christians there, not because of supposed Christian persecution of Islam. Christianity preaches make a choice who you will follow. Islam preaches to submit to Islam without choice.

But I guess World History 101 isn't taught anymore in U.S. schools, otherwise many of you would remember that history of Islam, instead of believing the lies Russia's "change agents" living in America have been putting out.

veteran said: "Christian America is definitely not the Revelation Babylon"

That is absolutely right.

It is also absolutely certain that Babylon the Great of Revelation is "The World-wide Empire of False Religion" (psueudo-christian and non-christian religion inclusive). And its teachers are the "Man of Sin", which is why they work so hard to try to show him not to so be.

 

[TexUs]

And Who controls the world financial system?? The names always sound Jewish to me.

Does that fit into the equation?? Just thinking out loud. Not trying to make a point of any kind. Just a thought that went through my mind as I am reading everything here.

Nobody really knows who controls it.

George Soros (I'll give you a guess what nationality he is from) has been involved in the destruction of the financial system in many countries and now he's turned his sights onto the USA. You would be shocked and appalled at how much influence this guy has. He's got his fingers in organizations you use ever day, most likely, go find the lists of organizations he backs and finances- they're very long. We're even talking down to the YWCA... Like I said, daily life.

The Federal Reserve obviously hasn't been audited so nobody has any idea who is really at work there. I don't know of any Jews that are involved in it though.


My point was simply that Israel is a very small player on the world stage right now. Those are the facts. The US controls EVERYTHING. China is a patient dog waiting to take over. Israel isn't in the picture.
But, futurists that like to think Israel is still special, must maintain that Israel is central and you can't get more ill informed than that. Ignoring Biblical basis, nobody in their right mind would think Israel is at the center of the world right now.

My main beefs with the "Israel is special":
1) It demonstrates an ignorance of exactly who the people were that God created a covenant with. (It was not with a nationality)
2) It demonstrates an ignorance of historical events in which many of God's special prophecies regarding Israel were already fulfilled. (The gathering of the people back to Israel? That happened LONG before the 40s)

Those are the two short/summarized beliefs.

Ezekiel 38 reveals Russia allied with Islam against Israel, and WHERE can we see that working today?

Let me ask you first veteran, are the people in Israel living securely right now, as the prophecy described? That's a mighty clear fact that should tell anyone simply reading, and not reading with bias, that this isn't the case today.


It's a mighty huge hole in all of your theory.


You go from relatively Biblical grounded argument and then end in wild speculation land.

 

[BarryD]

Makes me think of how Jerusalem was surrounded by armies, and destroyed in the year 70 AD. Are many Christians looking to the furture for events that have already taken place?

 

[tomwebster]

Makes me think of how Jerusalem was surrounded by armies, and destroyed in the year 70 AD. Are many Christians looking to the furture for events that have already taken place?

Have you seen the Wailing Wall with the big stones, one upon the other? Does it match Christ's description?

 

[TexUs]

Makes me think of how Jerusalem was surrounded by armies, and destroyed in the year 70 AD. Are many Christians looking to the furture for events that have already taken place?

Exactly my point.

Have you seen the Wailing Wall with the big stones, one upon the other? Does it match Christ's description?

So let me get this straight.
When I describe the nuclear bombs dropped in Japan as "complete annihilation"- you'll whine and cry that it really wasn't because there's still structures standing? How stupid does that sound? Now you know exactly how I feel when you bring this point up.


"Not one stone on top of the other" is another such figurative explanation that Jerusalem would fall. It did.

 

[tomwebster]

Exactly my point.



So let me get this straight.
When I describe the nuclear bombs dropped in Japan as "complete annihilation"- you'll whine and cry that it really wasn't because there's still structures standing? How stupid does that sound? Now you know exactly how I feel when you bring this point up.


"Not one stone on top of the other" is another such figurative explanation that Jerusalem would fall. It did.

Well Christ said it. I don't think I would want to call Christ stupid, you can if you're up to it, we'll see how it works out for you!

 

[veteran]

Some just are using their brains that God gave them today. Jerusalem today is a rebuilt city once again. And the state of Israel exists there once again, showing what about the old 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem?

As long as Jerusalem is not inhabited by Christ and His saints, then the seven signs of the end our Lord Jesus taught in Matt.24 have not happenned yet.

 

[TexUs]

Well Christ said it. I don't think I would want to call Christ stupid, you can if you're up to it, we'll see how it works out for you!

I'm not calling Christ stupid at all, I'm calling your interpretation stupid.

Some just are using their brains that God gave them today. Jerusalem today is a rebuilt city once again. And the state of Israel exists there once again, showing what about the old 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem?

I suspect after the veil was torn in the temple when Christ was crucified, and they went and hung a new one up: this invalidated Christ's entire effort?

It's the same exact logic as yours.

Just because men rebuilt it doesn't eliminate the fact that Christ destroyed it.

 

[tomwebster]

I'm not calling Christ stupid at all, I'm calling your interpretation stupid.

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

NO, you are calling Christ stupid! You sure have a rude awakening coming.

 

[TexUs]

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

NO, you are calling Christ stupid! You sure have a rude awakening coming.

And again, many times it's in the Bible Christ talked in both parables and symbolically. I'm saying this is another such case.

I see, "It will be destroyed" from this. If you disagree with that statement then you totally miss the entire point of that chapter.

 

[veteran]

What Christ was talking about in Matt.24 of not one stone standing upon another is about all the Bible prophecies about this...

2 Pet 3:10-11
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
(KJV)

Isa 2:19
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
(KJV)

So it truly is a sign of Biblical ignorance with not recognizing all the Bible prophecy He gave about that coming event at His future return. (Oh, but I forgot, lot of Preterists don't believe in a literal bodily return of our Lord Jesus in the future.) They will though, once they feel that future great shaking of this earth The LORD is going to do at His coming.

 

[TexUs]

So it truly is a sign of Biblical ignorance with not recognizing all the Bible prophecy He gave about that coming event at His future return. (Oh, but I forgot, lot of Preterists don't believe in a literal bodily return of our Lord Jesus in the future.) They will though, once they feel that future great shaking of this earth The LORD is going to do at His coming.

You try desperately to discredit me don't you?
You CONSTANTLY put words in my mouth. I don't deny a bodily return.But what the hell, I guess if Strawman arguments are what you need in order to build your theory...

2 Pet 3:10-11
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
(KJV)

Funny thing is, there's nothing that says anything about stones on top of the other here. I think this is another Futurist attempt to link events that aren't actually linked.

Isa 2:19
19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of His majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth.
(KJV)

Once more there's no mention of the stones of the temple is there... Does this not fit Revelation 6 much better?
Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”


What's funny is the language is almost identical here, and is more acceptable to create a link there (keep in mind the Bible itself does not link this though)... But you ignore that and still try to arbitrarily link it to something unrelated.

 

[veteran]

You try desperately to discredit me don't you?

You CONSTANTLY put words in my mouth. I don't deny a bodily return.But what the hell, I guess if Strawman arguments are what you need in order to build your theory...

You must be feeling guilty or something, because I don't see anywhere that I mentioned your name in my previous post about the false doctrine of man called Preterism. So why are you trying to attack me when I have done no personal attack upon you? But if you feel my disreguard and rebuttals against the ideas of Preterism is a personal attack upon you, then maybe you ought to go to the Moderator about it, and see if they can help you with that.

Funny thing is, there's nothing that says anything about stones on top of the other here. I think this is another Futurist attempt to link events that aren't actually linked.

That Futurist label is ludicrous just as much as men's labels of Preterism and Historicism. If there be one Scripture remaining in God's Word that is yet to be fulfilled today, then it means the future is still very important as a time marker in God's Holy Writ. So is there still Scripture in God's Word yet to be fulfilled today? The Futurist label apparently was created to counter those who refused to accept the Preterist and Historicist doctrines of men. How they all go around and around in endless circles, never coming to the Truth in God's Word.

But as for that not one stone upon another idea, Jesus said it in Matthew 24:2 about the great stones laid upon the Temple Mount that His disciples commented about. A group of those great stones are still standing one on top of another in Jerusalem today. Those huge stones are called the Wailing Wall by orthodox Jews.

Matt 24:1-3
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
(KJV)

The Matt.24:1-3 Scripture speaks for itself about the "when" those things are to happen, with "the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world". But do Preterists really believe Christ's second coming happenned back in those days there? Not all of them do, but that's pretty much what the Preterist ideas are designed to lead one's thinking to. It's a doctrine of devils to lead the deceived into denying Christ's second coming, which is still future to us by the way.

Once more there's no mention of the stones of the temple is there... Does this not fit Revelation 6 much better?

Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

Let's see; that Rev.6 prophecy is about the unjust who will want to hide from the face of The Lamb Jesus when He returns.

1. Did the wicked run and hide from Jesus in those days of Matt.24, or even after Christ's Resurrection? No.
2. Are the wicked even running and hiding from the face of Christ today? Nope.

Instead the wicked crucified Christ, and persecuted His disciples after that, as they are still persecuting Christ's Church today. So that definitely reveals that Rev.6 event did not happen in the days of the Apostles either, but is still future.


But aren't there more verses in that Rev.6 example that go with those events? I believe there are...

Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
(KJV)

If a mountain and island is moved out of its place, what would that do to those stones in Jerusalem still one on top of another? When the orthodox unbelieving Jews build their future temple, what will that event do to its stones on that day? It certainly won't be very funny when that happens. Those seeking to hide from Christ on that day won't be laughing.

What's funny is the language is almost identical here, and is more acceptable to create a link there (keep in mind the Bible itself does not link this though)... But you ignore that and still try to arbitrarily link it to something unrelated.

You're just putting out hot air that really doesn't make sense, and proves nothing that you intend. What you've actually done is confirm how that Rev.6:14-17 event IS linked with the Matt.24:1-3 prophecy Christ gave about a time when not one stone would be standing upon another in Jerusalem at His second coming, which is the day God's Word declares for His wrath upon the wicked. It's called 'the day of The LORD' in many places in God's Word. It's that day when the wicked will seek to hide from Christ's direct Presence on earth, in Person. That means Christ literally coming to pour out His wrath upon those. It means the wicked being cut off from power on the earth, and that certainly has not happenned yet.

 

[aspen]

I watched the Glen Beck show yesterday afternoon. If you're at all interested in today's events please tune in this week. He displayed a map of the middle east, showing how chaos is rapidly spreading...on to Europe and Great Britain! In seeing Jerusalem, as a David compassed with giants, it made me think of....

Of course, instead of a sling shot, this modern David has nuclear weapons.......

 

[TexUs]

You must be feeling guilty or something, because I don't see anywhere that I mentioned your name in my previous post about the false doctrine of man called Preterism. So why are you trying to attack me when I have done no personal attack upon you?

Because you've called me a Preterist before.
Put two and two together.

That Futurist label is ludicrous just as much as men's labels of Preterism and Historicism.

Try practicing what you preach and drop the terminology, then.

But as for that not one stone upon another idea, Jesus said it in Matthew 24:2 about the great stones laid upon the Temple Mount that His disciples commented about. A group of those great stones are still standing one on top of another in Jerusalem today. Those huge stones are called the Wailing Wall by orthodox Jews.

Sounds like Jesus was saying the temple will be destroyed. That happened.
If you take everything in there literal you must also take Matthew 24:34 literal and I'm guessing you can't do that and will pick and chose what you'd like to take literally.

And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
(KJV)

The Matt.24:1-3 Scripture speaks for itself about the "when" those things are to happen, with "the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world".

Yeah, in your crap translation it does say that.
But in the original text, "aion" was used. Does it sound similar to an English word you know? Eon???

Ahhh so now we realize by actually studying the text that it doesn't literally say "the world" but of course, that means you have to actually study it.

1. Did the wicked run and hide from Jesus in those days of Matt.24, or even after Christ's Resurrection? No.

There you go again trying to link passages together that aren't linked by the Bible "rolleyes:
Only this time you're trying to link three passages together. LOL.

If a mountain and island is moved out of its place, what would that do to those stones in Jerusalem still one on top of another? When the orthodox unbelieving Jews build their future temple, what will that event do to its stones on that day? It certainly won't be very funny when that happens. Those seeking to hide from Christ on that day won't be laughing.

Honestly after reading this I'm just getting pissed off.
At least try to understand my argument. I've never said Revelation 6 was past.


Either make an attempt to understand my argument or welcome yourself to the ignore list. I'll respond to the rest of your post after you make this choice.