I never liked going to church

[Karl Peters]

When I was young my parents took us kids to church. I am not totally sure why, but I never liked it. I remember my brother and I ditching Sunday school. I never ditched regular school and didn't hate going there.

So when I got a bit older (high school and beyond) I didn't go to church, except for the off holiday when I would go with my parents. Then later my wife decided she want the family to go to church. So again I went a church for a little bit. Of course that didn't last too long either.

Then my not wanting to go to church really became an issue, because the Lord came into my life in a huge way. Him and I have spent al ot of time talking, and He like the idea of me going to church also!!

Ok - I went alone with my parents, I went along with my wife and family, and I go along with the Lord, but I will don't like going, and I am not sure what it fully is. Perhaps it is just the devil, but I think it is more about me and the people there.

Oh - the people at church seem extremely nice, but they often seem fake. They always have. Even when I was little they seemed fake. The Lord, He is not fake. He is real, and I mean that in both many ways. You can just talk to Him. He is weird. That's for sure, but He is not fake. I rarely understand the full meaning of what He tells me, because His thoughts are not my thoughts, but He is interesting, incredible, and not fake.

There could be, and certainly are other reason also, but that one always gets me. I being it up now, because He is telling me that He is about to take me back again. He gave me along rest from church during the Covid crisis. I had needed it, and had been telling Him that I needed a break, a sabbatical if you will, right before the crisis hit. In fact I could have been partially to blame for it. He had me working in a prayer tower ministry for a few years prior to it, and probably spending more time in the prayer tower than anyone at the church. The pastor in charge said he was getting a sabbatical and was taking some time off, so I pressed the Lord for the same.

The couple taking the pastors place missed scheduling for the tower, so I took a couple of weeks off and during that time the crisis hit and the whole church got closed down. I don't think the prayer tower has ever gotten back up, but the Lord is telling me that He is taking me back again. Interesting enough, that pastor that got the sabbatical wound up dying since. So he is getting a real rest, off in heaven. I guess I got a nice long rest too.

 

[Nancy]

When I was young my parents took us kids to church. I am not totally sure why, but I never liked it. I remember my brother and I ditching Sunday school. I never ditched regular school and didn't hate going there.

So when I got a bit older (high school and beyond) I didn't go to church, except for the off holiday when I would go with my parents. Then later my wife decided she want the family to go to church. So again I went a church for a little bit. Of course that didn't last too long either.

Then my not wanting to go to church really became an issue, because the Lord came into my life in a huge way. Him and I have spent al ot of time talking, and He like the idea of me going to church also!!

Ok - I went alone with my parents, I went along with my wife and family, and I go along with the Lord, but I will don't like going, and I am not sure what it fully is. Perhaps it is just the devil, but I think it is more about me and the people there.

Oh - the people at church seem extremely nice, but they often seem fake. They always have. Even when I was little they seemed fake. The Lord, He is not fake. He is real, and I mean that in both many ways. You can just talk to Him. He is weird. That's for sure, but He is not fake. I rarely understand the full meaning of what He tells me, because His thoughts are not my thoughts, but He is interesting, incredible, and not fake.

There could be, and certainly are other reason also, but that one always gets me. I being it up now, because He is telling me that He is about to take me back again. He gave me along rest from church during the Covid crisis. I had needed it, and had been telling Him that I needed a break, a sabbatical if you will, right before the crisis hit. In fact I could have been partially to blame for it. He had me working in a prayer tower ministry for a few years prior to it, and probably spending more time in the prayer tower than anyone at the church. The pastor in charge said he was getting a sabbatical and was taking some time off, so I pressed the Lord for the same.

The couple taking the pastors place missed scheduling for the tower, so I took a couple of weeks off and during that time the crisis hit and the whole church got closed down. I don't think the prayer tower has ever gotten back up, but the Lord is telling me that He is taking me back again. Interesting enough, that pastor that got the sabbatical wound up dying since. So he is getting a real rest, off in heaven. I guess I got a nice long rest too.

Hello @Karl Peters , and welcome to C.B.
I hear you. Growing up, the 3 older ones of 7 kids had to go to church as well and, I got not a thing out of it. We were raised Catholic but my mom switched to protestant when I was in my early teens. I still am not attending where I was going pre-covid but, this is where I get my fellowship and as far as learning and growing in Him, we have His Word and His peace. The more we take in His words, the more we understand and grow.
I hope you like it here and learn from others and also teach others as well. Iron sharpens iron brother!
Gods blessings abundant and, again welcome here.
nancy

 

[April_Rose]

To me the church itself is never the issue,.. it's the people in it that makes a difference.

 

[Curtis]

When I was young my parents took us kids to church. I am not totally sure why, but I never liked it. I remember my brother and I ditching Sunday school. I never ditched regular school and didn't hate going there.

So when I got a bit older (high school and beyond) I didn't go to church, except for the off holiday when I would go with my parents. Then later my wife decided she want the family to go to church. So again I went a church for a little bit. Of course that didn't last too long either.

Then my not wanting to go to church really became an issue, because the Lord came into my life in a huge way. Him and I have spent al ot of time talking, and He like the idea of me going to church also!!

Ok - I went alone with my parents, I went along with my wife and family, and I go along with the Lord, but I will don't like going, and I am not sure what it fully is. Perhaps it is just the devil, but I think it is more about me and the people there.

Oh - the people at church seem extremely nice, but they often seem fake. They always have. Even when I was little they seemed fake. The Lord, He is not fake. He is real, and I mean that in both many ways. You can just talk to Him. He is weird. That's for sure, but He is not fake. I rarely understand the full meaning of what He tells me, because His thoughts are not my thoughts, but He is interesting, incredible, and not fake.

There could be, and certainly are other reason also, but that one always gets me. I being it up now, because He is telling me that He is about to take me back again. He gave me along rest from church during the Covid crisis. I had needed it, and had been telling Him that I needed a break, a sabbatical if you will, right before the crisis hit. In fact I could have been partially to blame for it. He had me working in a prayer tower ministry for a few years prior to it, and probably spending more time in the prayer tower than anyone at the church. The pastor in charge said he was getting a sabbatical and was taking some time off, so I pressed the Lord for the same.

The couple taking the pastors place missed scheduling for the tower, so I took a couple of weeks off and during that time the crisis hit and the whole church got closed down. I don't think the prayer tower has ever gotten back up, but the Lord is telling me that He is taking me back again. Interesting enough, that pastor that got the sabbatical wound up dying since. So he is getting a real rest, off in heaven. I guess I got a nice long rest too.

My thought when reading your account about your talking to God a lot, and God being weird, and your dislike of the spiritual aura from other Christians in churches, was the scripture telling us to test every spirit to see if it’s God, or not, that you’ve been talking to.

 

[Karl Peters]

Hello @Karl Peters , and welcome to C.B.
I hear you. Growing up, the 3 older ones of 7 kids had to go to church as well and, I got not a thing out of it. We were raised Catholic but my mom switched to protestant when I was in my early teens. I still am not attending where I was going pre-covid but, this is where I get my fellowship and as far as learning and growing in Him, we have His Word and His peace. The more we take in His words, the more we understand and grow.
I hope you like it here and learn from others and also teach others as well. Iron sharpens iron brother!
Gods blessings abundant and, again welcome here.
nancy

Nice - it does seem you kind of understand

 

[Karl Peters]

To me the church itself is never the issue,.. it's the people in it that makes a difference.

I want to apologize if the below sounds a bit harsh. It is not meant to. Yet in this probably lies the reason I don't like going to church

I would think it was also the people in the church that makes the difference, but of course it is the Lord our God, Jesus Christ, in the church that makes the difference - not the people!!!!

The people need to realize that - but some do and some don't. If we don't we tend to look to the people but if we do we tend to look to our Lord Jesus Christ. Looking to Him is the thing that has me going to church when I do, and since knowing Him the last 20 years, it has meant usually going to church. The break in that the last year has been due to Him, and His allowing a pandemic at the exact time when I felt like I needed a break from going to church for a while.

So there obviously are people to go to church for the purpose of getting to know other people - and don't get me wrong - He likes that people go to church to get to know other people. The Lord has made that clear to me numerous times. Still, our problems come from looking to other people as opposed to looking to Him!!! If I look to Him He does hook me up with some people who do look to Him also. There are some of those people at each Christian church I have been to. They are not fake. They are not hypocrites pretending to know the Lord and follow the Lord and instead are looking to the people to make the difference.

Let me put the same thing another way. Even when I was young, a child, it seemed that most of those people in the churches I went to were actors (hypocrites) pretending at church. I like regular school a lot better then, because the kids going to school were not worried about pretending. I you meet another kids that seemed nice the two of you could be real friends. And that was true later also. Since this is testimony time - I remember several occasions that really point this out.

Perhaps the most obvious was when I was attending the require class at my current church for prayer ministry training, when the lady running the class was telling us to make sure we didn't let anyone we might happen to pray for get close to us. That was a real danger when you move into ministry. She of course meant well, and you do have to be careful that you don't get too involved were you shouldn't, but that just means we need to be talking to the Lord and not that we should never let anyone get close to us. That attitude by the leaders of even my church produces and elitist's group of "leaders" at the church, which are more interested in knowing the "right" people instead of knowing the Lord.

I like the church that , though being out of it for just over a year now, is still one of the better Christian churches the Lord has had me going to. I believe He is taking me back to that church soon. There are also people there who are truly after following the Lord. I know some of them and have them as friends. I have still incredibly run across them a number of times in the last year.

 

[Karl Peters]

My thought when reading your account about your talking to God a lot, and God being weird, and your dislike of the spiritual aura from other Christians in churches, was the scripture telling us to test every spirit to see if it’s God, or not, that you’ve been talking to.

I delayed answering the above, because I wanted to have some time talking to the Lord about it. It is the type of thing that make a person not want to go to church/temple in the sense that people go to find out about God and worship Him. That verse below are what the Lord decided to talk to me about

Jn 8: 2 Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them.

Jn 8:45 - 49 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
“Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
“He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”
The Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me.

There are those, who not knowing what spirit they are off like to accuse the saints by they have a demon!! Those kinds of people even did that with Jesus, as show above. Now we are not Jesus and we all have battles with the powers, principalities, and dark forces of this world. We usually find that battle in us, as I will show with the verses below. Yet, certainly those battles can also come through others people who are unware of what spirit they are off, and shown above. The fact is, that unless you are Jesus incarnate, and we are not, then we have evil present in us.

Romans 7:21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

The above verse was written by the Christian man we usually call Paul, and not by the Pharisee that did not know the Lord and was persecuting Christians, who we usually call Saul. Saul and Paul are of course the same man, with Saul usually being thought of as the man who did not know the Lord and thus did not hear His voice, and Paul as the man who did personally know the Lord and who did hear from Him. It was Paul who knew that we all have evil present in us and Paul who was aware of the personal battle in him.

Considering that, who then comes across as an accuser saying something about us having a demon in us? It is clearly someone unaware of the presence of evil in all of us. That is to say that it is someone very poor at discernment of spirits!!!

Now I actually love discussing the question of discerning of spirits, including how to test the spirits. To test them I use 1 Jn 4:1-3, and I kind of combine it with 1 Cor 12:3. If you have to ask what those two verses are, then you are not testing the spirits as told to in the Bible. Also you find that discernment is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and He talks to us, so you need to practice listening to Him! The practice part is found in Heb 5 - the last verses and specifically the last verse.

Now going back to Jesus and those that accused Him: Note that He came across them in a meeting place for God's people (Jerusalem), He talked to me for this writing, about how is it we didn't notice that much of His great work (miracles and such) did not actually happen in those meeting place that could be thought of as a "Church" . They happened along the sea shore or on a hill in the country side. Indeed, John the Baptist's great work happened in the dessert. Is that not because it got them away from the religious attitude that often gets in the way?

So consider??? How do you think Jesus Himself felt about going to Jerusalem (the main meeting place for God's people at that time)?? He went - because He was always going to do what the Father asked, but don't think He was all that excited to go there!! That might be where the work is at times, but that is also where you tend to find people who loves to accuse you.

Now I go, because He tells me to go. Yet not always. He just gave me some time off. He just recently gave me some time off posting for a few months (and then had me change sites) and that because dealing with certain people, those you don't understand the battle is inside themselves but look to point fingers at others, can be a head ache.

So do evil spirit want people to say away from church? Some they do and some they put on as sheep's clothing and walk right in. So what about some writing honestly that they don't want to go but tell you to listen to Jesus Christ and that He is a bit like their father, telling them to go to church and do some work? What is that verse above?

Jn 8:45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

So I told you honestly that I don't like going but the Lord Jesus Christ, like my father when I was younger, often takes me to church, but someone didn't believe me, and thought that was from the devil? Who then is testing the spirits and who is not. Who then is practicing seeking and listening to the Lord and who is not. Have we never even read that love trusts all?

 

[Stumpmaster]

So I told you honestly that I don't like going

I don't like the word "church". The Greek word "ekklesia" should have been translated "congregation" as Wycliff insisted, but the politics of the day was heavily invested in the "church" and "clergy" being synonymous, and so we are stuck with a word from the Greek "kuriakon" that originally described things belonging to pagan gods.

Kuriakon actually means “pertaining to the lord.” It is used twice in scripture: 1 Cor 11:20 The “ Lord’s [ kuriakon]supper;” and Rev 1:10, the “ Lord’s [ kuriakon] day.” In those passages it is the supper belonging to the Lord and the day belonging to the Lord respectively.

Kuriakon, kirche, and church, all meant simply a religious building originally used by pagans and later used by Christians following pagan customs. Christians originally didn’t use buildings, which distinguished them from the pagans whose focus was on building, statues, ritual and physical objects. [Copied from The Origin Of The Word Church at scribd.com]

Rather than going to the ekklesia, we are the ekklesia, in this case here, an online ekklesia ostensibly assembling for mutual edification.

Heb 10:22-25 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (23) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised (24) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: (25) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

 

[Karl Peters]

I don't like the word "church". The Greek word "ekklesia" should have been translated "congregation" as Wycliff insisted, but the politics of the day was heavily invested in the "church" and "clergy" being synonymous, and so we are stuck with a word from the Greek "kuriakon" that originally described things belonging to pagan gods.

Kuriakon actually means “pertaining to the lord.” It is used twice in scripture: 1 Cor 11:20 The “ Lord’s [ kuriakon]supper;” and Rev 1:10, the “ Lord’s [ kuriakon] day.” In those passages it is the supper belonging to the Lord and the day belonging to the Lord respectively.

Kuriakon, kirche, and church, all meant simply a religious building originally used by pagans and later used by Christians following pagan customs. Christians originally didn’t use buildings, which distinguished them from the pagans whose focus was on building, statues, ritual and physical objects. [Copied from The Origin Of The Word Church at scribd.com]

Rather than going to the ekklesia, we are the ekklesia, in this case here, an online ekklesia ostensibly assembling for mutual edification.

Heb 10:22-25 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. (23) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised (24) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: (25) Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

I like the post, and the reasoning is good, especially in the verse. However, are we living by a rule or according to the voice of our Lord Jesus Christ??

Surely we are going back leaning of our own understanding, are we? Does not "hold fast to the profession of our faith" mean our faith in the Jesus Christ and thus the belief that He is there to instruct and guide us. For me to go back to leaning on a rule as I perceive it is not to hold fast to my profession of my faith!!

So it is that the Lord tells me to go to church often. Not this last year, but these are extraordinary times, coming at the exact time I was feeling like I needed a break. And as you mentioned, He has had me, during most of that time, still posting. At another Christian forum for most of the time. Then He told me to stop there for a season. Then He asked me to post again, leading to this forum. It is good to be able to communicate with other Christians, but often in some cases it is also hard. As He just put it to me - 'Is there not also a time to give a field a rest?"

Now the Lord came into my life in a big way over 20 years ago. In that time He has had me doing numerous things for Him and it usually involved going to church, but might mean other things. This thread was not my idea!! Why do care to tell a bunch of Christians that I don't really like going to church, and that He is again telling me to go, so He seems like my dad when I was a child.

Anyway, I loved the post - Stumpmaster. There was some good stuff in it.

 

[Mosheli]

I have never much liked "Church" either but it in my case it is because I don't like the block of singing followed by block of sermon (followed maybe by a brief cup of fluoridated tea/coffees/water and chat, followed by every one going home/out to own lives/families/interests/jobs). (And it being on sunday not Saturday, and it being so early in the morning.)

I don't think this is much of a "fellowship", there should be more social and more interesting interaction and activities. I know pastor and people told me I have to persist and that there "has to be ordered structure" but if I were running a church I'd make it alot more social and interactive and interesting.

(And I don't like that there are so many different denominations in the same community. There are cases of two or more churches in same streets or just around the corner here.)

(I also don't like the babbling in false "tongues".)

(Also I think there is alot of infiltrated false "Roman" theology.)

(A friend also said he doesn't like how so many churches have this modern type music.)

According to the bible church is anywhere where two or more are gathered in his name.

(Unfortunately quite a few churches here also won't let us join a home group unless we are first regular sunday attenders. And even a number of home groups have the same singing format.)

Though I agree that its Jesus that is most important of all.

 

[Cristo Rei]

When I was young my parents took us kids to church. I am not totally sure why, but I never liked it. I remember my brother and I ditching Sunday school. I never ditched regular school and didn't hate going there.

So when I got a bit older (high school and beyond) I didn't go to church, except for the off holiday when I would go with my parents. Then later my wife decided she want the family to go to church. So again I went a church for a little bit. Of course that didn't last too long either.

Then my not wanting to go to church really became an issue, because the Lord came into my life in a huge way. Him and I have spent al ot of time talking, and He like the idea of me going to church also!!

Ok - I went alone with my parents, I went along with my wife and family, and I go along with the Lord, but I will don't like going, and I am not sure what it fully is. Perhaps it is just the devil, but I think it is more about me and the people there.

Oh - the people at church seem extremely nice, but they often seem fake. They always have. Even when I was little they seemed fake. The Lord, He is not fake. He is real, and I mean that in both many ways. You can just talk to Him. He is weird. That's for sure, but He is not fake. I rarely understand the full meaning of what He tells me, because His thoughts are not my thoughts, but He is interesting, incredible, and not fake.

There could be, and certainly are other reason also, but that one always gets me. I being it up now, because He is telling me that He is about to take me back again. He gave me along rest from church during the Covid crisis. I had needed it, and had been telling Him that I needed a break, a sabbatical if you will, right before the crisis hit. In fact I could have been partially to blame for it. He had me working in a prayer tower ministry for a few years prior to it, and probably spending more time in the prayer tower than anyone at the church. The pastor in charge said he was getting a sabbatical and was taking some time off, so I pressed the Lord for the same.

The couple taking the pastors place missed scheduling for the tower, so I took a couple of weeks off and during that time the crisis hit and the whole church got closed down. I don't think the prayer tower has ever gotten back up, but the Lord is telling me that He is taking me back again. Interesting enough, that pastor that got the sabbatical wound up dying since. So he is getting a real rest, off in heaven. I guess I got a nice long rest too.

Hi Karl and welcome to the forum... I love your honesty... I can relate to much of what you said

God Bless

 

[Stumpmaster]

I have never much liked "Church" either but it in my case it is because I don't like the block of singing followed by block of sermon (followed maybe by a brief cup of fluoridated tea/coffees/water and chat, followed by every one going home/out to own lives/families/interests/jobs). (And it being on sunday not Saturday, and it being so early in the morning.)

The dreaded program. I used to enjoy the services in the 1980's and still sing some of the songs from that time when they come to mind whilst I busy myself during the day. Unfortunately the self-discipline that kept the sound level bearable gave way to the carnality of over-amplified sound and after trying earplugs and protesting to the oversight I abandoned these bastions of Babylon.

 

[Karl Peters]

Hi Karl and welcome to the forum... I love your honesty... I can relate to much of what you said

God Bless

This is what I am talking about!!!!

As Christian it also turns out that we are just people!! Yeah - we get to know the Lord, and some more closely than others, but that too is just part of being people - people that He made. So what has always tended to bother me is the lack on honestly at church, and in this regard.

I didn't understand that as well when I was just a kid, but I did. There was something fake in the way people were acting at church, and the same people did not act fake at regular school. So even as a kid, I could have regular conversation with people and make real friends and we could talk about real things.

Now when I was about 40 the Lord came into my life in a big way, and frankly I love talking about real things between Him and I. He is real, and from my conversations with Him, it is no good trying to not be honest with Him. He is going to know if I am putting on airs and puffing myself up. He is going to know if I am not being honest with Him. So I tell Him things like, "You know Lord, I don't really like going to church". Of course He already knows that. And just like my father when I was a child He still often takes me there! Yet over the last 20 plus years since I really got to know Him, He sometimes gives me a break from it. This has been the longest break, but I had also gone through about seven years of not getting a break from going, and even several times a week while I helped in various ministries.

It's doesn't really seem like something I need to make a big deal about, but it is a big deal that He cares, knows, and though He takes you to church, He might also give you a break. It still comes down to listening to Him, who is really real, and not us putting on a show.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the church itself is never the issue,.. it's the people in it that makes a difference.

I have come to the conclusion that it is the PASTOR that makes the difference. The church is the pastor's. He's in charge. He drives it. It's all about him. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm just telling you that's how it is.

 

[Karl Peters]

I have come to the conclusion that it is the PASTOR that makes the difference. The church is the pastor's. He's in charge. He drives it. It's all about him. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm just telling you that's how it is.

It does seem like the Pastor at the church makes all the difference. I know that almost everyone loves the pastor at the church that I go to, and many tell me that he is the reason they go there. While I think he is really good and a enjoyable speaker, I don't go there because of that. I go there because the Lord told me to go there, period!! And I actually suspect, and for good reasons, that the Lord is more in control of what is going on that we know! I mean - who did make the pastor, but him in charge, give him ideas for the sermons, and who does actually send His Holy Spirit to speak to our spirit, whether we know it or not?

I think our pastor is a wonderful man, but it is a huge church I, though gong therefor about a decade now, have never ever had a personal conversation with that pastor. I did, because of the ministries the Lord had me in, get to know a few other pastors at the church the Lord wanted me to go to but not even one conversation with the main pastor, who everyone loves so much. So my guess is that most going there also have had very few personal integrations with him. Of course that would not be the case with most churches, but if indeed people were really going to a church because of the pastor, how is it that the church I go to got so big, since so few actually have a close relationship with the pastor. I believe it is because some, like me, have a close personal relationship with our true Pastor, Jesus Christ, and I believe that those who don't probably are still going there because our real Pastor, Jesus Christ, has been influencing things with His Spirit. Perhaps by putting the right person as the pastor of the church and getting our spirit to be receptive to him.

What do you think? Could that actually be the case?

 

[tsr]

9 Reasons You Might Not Feel Like Going to Church

1. Physical Reasons
2. Spiritual Reasons
3. Relational Reasons
4. Logistical Reasons
5. Preferential Reasons
6. Cultural Reasons
7. Recreational Reasons
8. Missional Reasons
9. Doctrinal Reasons

Finally, some have personal problems with the church. Maybe you’ve been abused by “spiritual authorities,” witnessed a pastoral scandal, or endured a church split. In some situations you might bear some responsibility, but even when you’re completely innocent, there’s still pain. Whether your wounds are caused by others or self-inflicted, personal history can make it hard to love a church, trust a church, or even attend a church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

but if indeed people were really going to a church because of the pastor, how is it that the church I go to got so big, since so few actually have a close relationship with the pastor.

Because of how they know him just from the pulpit.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I believe it is because some, like me, have a close personal relationship with our true Pastor, Jesus Christ, and I believe that those who don't probably are still going there because our real Pastor, Jesus Christ, has been influencing things with His Spirit. Perhaps by putting the right person as the pastor of the church and getting our spirit to be receptive to him.

I personally believe that any church that is large and has been around for many years and isn't doing anything obvious to appeal to worldly appetites exists because God has ordained it.

 

[Karl Peters]

I personally believe that any church that is large and has been around for many years and isn't doing anything obvious to appeal to worldly appetites exists because God has ordained it.

Yeah - I agree, but then if He ordained it, then does He not also tell people to go there?

The more I actually got to know the Lord and actually listen to Him the more I found out that He is a lot more involved in our lives than we understand!

Ps 37:23 The steps of a man are established by the LORD, And He delights in his way.

Prov 16: The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

Prov 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?

The above is what I got to realize more and more as I listened to Him more and more. Yet as Prov 20:24 says, when you find out that He is even involved in the steps you take how can you fully understand the Lord's ways? He is just so much more involved. So when He told me that He was taking me back to church, He is going to do that, since He ordains, directs, and establishes my step. And that being the case, then why does anyone go to church??? Is it not because He ordained, directed, and established their step to the church whether they planned it or not?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Yeah - I agree, but then if He ordained it, then does He not also tell people to go there?

The more I actually got to know the Lord and actually listen to Him the more I found out that He is a lot more involved in our lives than we understand!

Ps 37:23 The steps of a man are established by the LORD, And He delights in his way.

Prov 16: The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.

Prov 20:24 Man's steps are ordained by the LORD, How then can man understand his way?

The above is what I got to realize more and more as I listened to Him more and more. Yet as Prov 20:24 says, when you find out that He is even involved in the steps you take how can you fully understand the Lord's ways? He is just so much more involved. So when He told me that He was taking me back to church, He is going to do that, since He ordains, directs, and establishes my step. And that being the case, then why does anyone go to church??? Is it not because He ordained, directed, and established their step to the church whether they planned it or not?

Well, I'm not one of those who actually hear God talk. I hear God talk through the scriptures. Outside of the scriptures He communicates to me through impressions. Which sometimes are powerful enough to feel like actual words spoken by God.

In 2017 I was attending a church where I was pretty unsatisfied. And some other junk was going on. One Wednesday night I was talking to the pastor after the Bible study and he gave me a book to borrow. The next morning I 'heard' the Lord tell me to get out of that church and do it now and not waste any time. So on my lunch break I took the book back to the pastor at the church. God confirmed that it was him telling me to do this. It was a small church and the pastor was locked inside, working, and I knocked on the door. He came to the door and I moved forward to walk through as one would expect to do when greeted at the door. Well, he pulled the door almost closed to prevent me from coming in. It was real obvious he was keeping me from entering. He didn't just politely explain that he did not want me to come in (for whatever the reason was). It was very abrupt and impolite and totally unfitting. So I just handed him the book through the crack in the front door and explained to him that I wasn't coming back to the church, and why. What he did confirmed completely for me that I was doing the right thing and that I had 'heard' from God.