What preachers do you like?
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I'm sure the folks in Osteen's church think what he's doing is ministry, too.
I have no idea who the guy is you're talking about but my point is simply that this statement is not always true.
There's also a difference between advocating for false gospel (Osteen) on the basis of, "If it ministers to you" and advocating for the true gospel.
The issue I have is when a pastor speaks in front of a very large (read:successful) church and preaches a message.
They then want to charge a "love gift" of $19.99 to send you the CD.
CDs purchased in bulk cost well under a dollar per blank CD. The cost of shipping is perhaps $3 to $4.
The labor to make and package and label per CD is less than a dollar. The rest is pure profit.
Yes, it's America. Yes, they have the right. But Jesus' greatest outreach was too the poor. Those in greatest need.
The cost for many becomes prohibitive.
THEN many of these churches say that it is illegal to make copies under penalty of law. Not that it is illegal to resell, but to copy for free distribution.
That makes it really hard to share the message with others.
If they are truly concerned only with just "covering the cost" then why would they care if it is shared with others who need to hear the message?
The "covering the cost" portion was already covered by the original buyer.
Same with MP3 downloads. A sermon given in many of these churches is a charged download from that pastor's web site. Why?
There is very little overhead in maintaining a server and uploading a message for others to download.
If the true motivation was to "get God's message out" this is the least expensive. Why charge for it?
I do understand the cost involved, but my church puts the cost under missions outreach and the members of the church (myself included) support it through out tithes and offerings, just like it was a prison ministry or outreach to drug addicts or abused women.
If a good part of the cost of the message ends up being profit, and the profit prevents many of those in need from receiving the message, there is something very wrong there.
They then want to charge a "love gift" of $19.99 to send you the CD.
CDs purchased in bulk cost well under a dollar per blank CD. The cost of shipping is perhaps $3 to $4.
The labor to make and package and label per CD is less than a dollar. The rest is pure profit.
Yes, it's America. Yes, they have the right. But Jesus' greatest outreach was too the poor. Those in greatest need.
The cost for many becomes prohibitive.
THEN many of these churches say that it is illegal to make copies under penalty of law. Not that it is illegal to resell, but to copy for free distribution.
That makes it really hard to share the message with others.
If they are truly concerned only with just "covering the cost" then why would they care if it is shared with others who need to hear the message?
The "covering the cost" portion was already covered by the original buyer.
Same with MP3 downloads. A sermon given in many of these churches is a charged download from that pastor's web site. Why?
There is very little overhead in maintaining a server and uploading a message for others to download.
If the true motivation was to "get God's message out" this is the least expensive. Why charge for it?
I do understand the cost involved, but my church puts the cost under missions outreach and the members of the church (myself included) support it through out tithes and offerings, just like it was a prison ministry or outreach to drug addicts or abused women.
If a good part of the cost of the message ends up being profit, and the profit prevents many of those in need from receiving the message, there is something very wrong there.
These people have bibles they can read for themselves, its a selective gospel choosing to believe some verses and ignoring others. Ms Hepburn and I have had a couple of conversations, she doesn't believe in hell, she also uses some other new age type language and principles. She has a bible and knows the scriptures about hell.
What is happening is these teachers teach what their flesh wants to hear. Positive thinking, claiming it for yourself in the name of God. Prosperity is evidence of Godliness. These principles are used to imply that you control your salvation and destiny. Its the new age foundational principle. People like that. It caters to their flesh.
Just who is it that causes the seed to grow? He who plants and waters?
Now notice something else. These people that follow such things rarely make public testimony. Thats why these teachers spend millions on personally speaking their message.
They are the sole beneficiary and encourage others to be their own beneficiary or help them threw selective teaching to justify their actions and decisions.
The people that sit and listen don't go out and teach, they know they don't have a leg to stand on in the full context of scripture, instead they lie in wait looking for others that have a similar spirit. Look what Jake's did, he moved 50 family's 50 families that relocated with the Jakes family from West Virginia to Dallas Now I'll bet you dollars to donuts that their on Jake's payroll.
I don't have any problem at all comparing scripture with others that choose to justify a false type of relationship with Jesus. It does little to burst in and point the finger IMO.
Its better to address their questions or understanding of scripture as they choose to express it. But as I said most are sit on the side line and just flatter or encourage principles that reflect their doctrine. Haven't you noticed that the 3 earth age people rarely and openly discuss their core principles? Its for the very same reason, they have little evidence in light of scripture and they know it. The same is true with the billionaire teachers flock. They have no testimony they are simply cheerleaders pointing to men in sheep's clothing.
What preachers do I like?
Our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ, all His prophets and Apostles, and of course The Holy Spirit, which without I wouldn't understand any of His Word The Bible. Beyond that is mostly re-iteration.
Our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ, all His prophets and Apostles, and of course The Holy Spirit, which without I wouldn't understand any of His Word The Bible. Beyond that is mostly re-iteration.
That's not an excuse. Just because they like what they hear does not mean what they hear is OK.
Gotta love both you and others that take a simple statement and lay it as a foundation. Miss Hepburn did the same above for just the opposite reason. That's the very thing I just got done speaking about, selective teaching.
If you can't comment on my entire post, my complete thoughts then save your bate for someone else.
The rest of your post had absolutely nothing to do with the flow of thought so why would I quote it?
Maybe you should remove your selective reading glasses and try reading it again. Here I'll show you.
Miss Hepburn
Well-Known Member
A puppy has ministered to me - he never says anything about the Good News.
The eyes of my neighbor ministers to me.
The hug of a friend mnisters to me.
I don't get you guys.
Sent to me as my daily quote this morning:
"You know you have the Peace of God
when you see God in all things."
The eyes of my neighbor ministers to me.
The hug of a friend mnisters to me.
I don't get you guys.
Sent to me as my daily quote this morning:
"You know you have the Peace of God
when you see God in all things."
Are we talking about ministry from God or "feel good warm feeling"????
There's a difference.
A hardened atheist couple can have a feel good feeling and fit what you've just described- but God is nowhere there doing any ministering.
I think we in our culture have a perverted view of love, which ties into, ministry.
FEEL GOOD WARM FEELING thats what the words of Jesus brings to my table some of us see God in all his creation and some see God when they choose too. :)
some of us see God in all his creation and some see God when they choose too. :)as for the preacherssssss that i like are many but the one i listen to most runs on batteriesFEEL GOOD WARM FEELING thats what the words of Jesus brings to my table
Some make a mistake by only looking at the appearance / surface, of teachers instead of comparing what they teach with scripture.
A counterfeit teacher will have all the appearances of the real deal, speaking scripture, in fact all the gifts of the Spirit are able to be counterfeited.
Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Speaking of false teachers, Jude 11 says, “They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.” In other words, a false teacher can be known by his pride (Cain’s rejection of God’s plan), greed (Balaam’s prophesying for money), and rebellion (Korah’s promotion of himself over Moses). Jesus said to beware of such people and that we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20).
For further study, review those books of the Bible that were written specifically to combat false teaching within the church: Galatians, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. It is often difficult to spot a false teacher/false prophet. Satan masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), and his ministers masquerade as servants of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:15). Only by being thoroughly familiar with the truth will we be able to recognize a counterfeit.
A counterfeit teacher will have all the appearances of the real deal, speaking scripture, in fact all the gifts of the Spirit are able to be counterfeited.
Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Speaking of false teachers, Jude 11 says, “They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.” In other words, a false teacher can be known by his pride (Cain’s rejection of God’s plan), greed (Balaam’s prophesying for money), and rebellion (Korah’s promotion of himself over Moses). Jesus said to beware of such people and that we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20).
For further study, review those books of the Bible that were written specifically to combat false teaching within the church: Galatians, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. It is often difficult to spot a false teacher/false prophet. Satan masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), and his ministers masquerade as servants of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:15). Only by being thoroughly familiar with the truth will we be able to recognize a counterfeit.
I like reading old sermons. Love Spurgeon, Smiths Wigglesworth, Cory TenBoom and I also quite like some of Leonard RavenHill quotes...Never heard him preach but if his quotes are an indication of his preaching...wow! Awesome representative of Christ! :)
shalom!
shalom!
I agree Angelina.
I read a book on Smith Wigglesworth's life and it was absolutely amazing.
My daughter says that she has been inspired greatly by Cory TenBoom. Especially how she struggled with anger when she met one of the guards of the concentration camp she was in and he wasn't sorry or contrite about the evil he participated in that transpired there.
I read a book on Smith Wigglesworth's life and it was absolutely amazing.
My daughter says that she has been inspired greatly by Cory TenBoom. Especially how she struggled with anger when she met one of the guards of the concentration camp she was in and he wasn't sorry or contrite about the evil he participated in that transpired there.
I think these guys are awesome too!
I also like listening to Timothy Keller and Mark Driscoll. I find all these preachers stick to the scriptures devotedly!
I like reading Spurgeon, D A Carson, Wayne Grudem and R C sproul.
There are so many 'preachers' out there that can admittedly speak with 'passion and strength', but too often they waver when it comes to the gospel truth...they bow to politics and societal pressures...and of course money as well.
I find so much encouragement when I listen to and read the above men, as they don't seem to worry about anything except God's word...as it is!!
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