John 3 - Born of Water and Spirit

[Ronald Nolette]

In Bible prophecy, the 'sea' and the 'land' are actually synonymous with each other...

Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea. Daniel 7:3

‘The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth. Daniel 7:17

In other words, the beasts rise from 'the sea and the earth'. Now, do you want to insist that Jesus is also saying, "no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the land and the Spirit."? Probably not. It should be no surprise to you that, in the Bible, the same metaphor can be used to represent to very distinct and different things. For example, spiritual circumcision refers to cutting off the flesh from the heart (Colossians 2:11), and yet Ezekiel speaks of the day God would give his people hearts of flesh (Ezekiel 36:26). Two uses of the metaphor 'flesh' but which are entirely and completely in contradiction to each other when taken out of the context they are used in.

Sadly most english versions are weak in this aramaic. For sea and ground are not synonymous.

Sea is symbolic of gentiles while ground is symbolic of the world while they are cloise thery are also different.

but no I do not believe thatJesus meant that.

but I do noknow that when words are used symbolically- they are used that way throughout Scripture. So when seas or waters are used symbolically it is always gentiles. Water is used metaphorically for the word- but that is different than symbolically.

But now prove that water in John 3 is a metynomy, or used symbolically or metaphorically and not euphemistically.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

More empty assertions.

so be it. So God cannot reveal a truth to Paul until He first had JOhn write it down? Proof?

At least I can point to romans to show it true- what do you point to?

 

[GracePeace]

so be it. So God cannot reveal a truth to Paul until He first had JOhn write it down? Proof?

I only took issue with the way you put it not with the idea that the Bible is consistent--also I disagree with your mishandling of the Scriptures.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, being born of the Word and Spirit is one new birth--you receive the Spirit by receiving the Word of the Spirit. I've explained this many times yet you want to pretend for the sake of your argument (forget about truth--you have to be right) that I haven't.

Now just give biblical proof for your assertion that being born of the Word and the Spirit is one event! th eLiving Word is Jesus and He is not the Spirit and we are born again by the pirit. Please show me where we have to be born of the Word somewhere other than you using water here symbolically or metaphorically.

 

[GracePeace]

Now just give biblical proof for your assertion that being born of the Word and the Spirit is one event! th eLiving Word is Jesus and He is not the Spirit and we are born again by the pirit. Please show me where we have to be born of the Word somewhere other than you using water here symbolically or metaphorically.

I've already shared these things with you many times but you haven't paid attention. Hope you pay attention this time.

1 Peter 1:23
...for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God

"My Word is Spirit" John 6:63.
"I [the Word, Jesus] am the Truth" John 14:6
"The Spirit is the Truth" 1 John 5:6

So, why is the Word (Jesus) "the Truth" but then "the Spirit is the Truth"?

 

[Heart2Soul]

I've already shared these things with you many times but you haven't paid attention. Hope you pay attention this time.

1 Peter 1:23
...for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God

"My Word is Spirit" John 6:63.
"I [the Word, Jesus] am the Truth" John 14:6
"The Spirit is the Truth" 1 John 5:6

So, why is the Word (Jesus) "the Truth" but then "the Spirit is the Truth"?

The Holy Spirit is called The Spirit of Truth and He bears witness to the Will of the Father and the testimony of Jesus

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So "He will baptize you in Spirit and fire"... is fire different from the Spirit or didn't the disciples have tongues of fire when they were baptized with the Spirit? Isn't God a consuming fire and the Spirit is the Spirit of God the consuming fire? Come on, man, it's so obvious.

Baptize in fire. That shall never be quenched.

The only fire that fits this description is hellfire.

And if your not baptized in the spirit. You will be baptized into fire.

 

[GracePeace]

Baptize in fire. That shall never be quenched.

The only fire that fits this description is hellfire.

And if your not baptized in the spirit. You will be baptized into fire.

LOL He will send His disciples to hell fire?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave..."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I invite anyone to go look at all of his citations so that you can see he offered no proof that "born of water" was a normative way of referring to "natural birth".

I go by what the author provides me with--"water... spoke of the Spirit".

I invite as well. It is in Yeshua , life ot he Messiah from a Jewish perspective page 45

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I only took issue with the way you put it not with the idea that the Bible is consistent--also I disagree with your mishandling of the Scriptures.

And how do I do that?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL He will send His disciples to hell fire?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave..."

Disciples?

John told this to everyone in the crowd, Including pharisees who came

He gave those who did not believe a warning. Jesus will baptize everyone

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I've already shared these things with you many times but you haven't paid attention. Hope you pay attention this time.

1 Peter 1:23
...for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God

"My Word is Spirit" John 6:63.
"I [the Word, Jesus] am the Truth" John 14:6
"The Spirit is the Truth" 1 John 5:6

So, why is the Word (Jesus) "the Truth" but then "the Spirit is the Truth"?

Wow and you accuse me of mishandling the Word of God?

JOhn 6:63: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus was speaking of the wordsa he speak not the THE WORD is Spirit.

John 14:6 Yes Jesus is THE TRUTH

1 John 5:6
King James Version

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


Yes the spirit is truth--but not THE TRUTH and th espirit is truth because He bears witness of Jesus.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

So we have seen the spirit- but now show that being born of water is a spiritual birth. See I pay close attention especially when little things like articles and prepositions are used.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Holy Spirit is called The Spirit of Truth and He bears witness to the Will of the Father and the testimony of Jesus

Yes He is called the Spirit of Truth. Why" because He proceeds from THE TRUTH who is Jesus and bears witness of THE Truth. but the SPIRIT is never called teh TRUTH. there is aq big difference in those .

 

[GracePeace]

Wow and you accuse me of mishandling the Word of God?

JOhn 6:63: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Jesus was speaking of the wordsa he speak not the THE WORD is Spirit.

John 14:6 Yes Jesus is THE TRUTH

1 John 5:6
King James Version

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


Yes the spirit is truth--but not THE TRUTH and th espirit is truth because He bears witness of Jesus.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

So we have seen the spirit- but now show that being born of water is a spiritual birth. See I pay close attention especially when little things like articles and prepositions are used.

So, yes, we are born of the Word of God, according to Peter, and, yes, "My Word is Spirit", so they are tightly bound together, and Jesus says "I am the Truth" and 1 John says "the Spirit is the Truth".

You have disproven precisely nothing of what I've asserted.

 

[GracePeace]

So we have seen the spirit- but now show that being born of water is a spiritual birth. See I pay close attention especially when little things like articles and prepositions are used.

So, again, "He will baptize with Spirit and fire" refers to just one baptism--just because "and" is there doesn't mean "Spirit and fire" refers to "two".

 

[GracePeace]

Yes He is called the Spirit of Truth. Why" because He proceeds from THE TRUTH who is Jesus and bears witness of THE Truth. but the SPIRIT is never called teh TRUTH. there is aq big difference in those .

Correction : 1 John not only says "Spirit of Truth" but even "the Spirit is the Truth".

Thanks.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But we are not talking about flesh gives birth to flesh- we arew talking about being born of water.

Now prove it is a metynomy.

If you do not believe being born of water is referring to flesh giving birth to flesh there is nothing to talk about.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, again, "He will baptize with Spirit and fire" refers to just one baptism--just because "and" is there doesn't mean "Spirit and fire" refers to "two".

Wrong

they are two baptisms

Baptism literally means to be immersed or placed into

Baptism of the spirit and in fire are two different baptisms

 

[Enoch111]

"Flesh gives birth to flesh" had to do with Nicodemus's "Can a man re-enter his mother's womb and be 'born again'?" misunderstanding, nothing else.

Correct. The learned Nicodemus was not geared to spiritual thinking. He could only imagine a physical rebirth, and of course, that was an impossibility. Even today, the majority of humanity knows nothing about a supernatural regeneration. But it is an absolute essential in order to both enter and to see the Kingdom of God.

The converse is that those who have been born again cannot be "unborn", just as an infant cannot be returned to his mother's womb. And this is one more reason to believe in the eternal security of the believer.

 

[GracePeace]

Wrong

they are two baptisms

Baptism literally means to be immersed or placed into

Baptism of the spirit and in fire are two different baptisms

LOL So why did the disciples have tongues on fire on Pentecost when they were baptized in the Spirit?