Who or What is Israel?

[Rach1370]

Hey TexUs. You've got a lot of good thoughts, and I'll think then through!!

As far as Israel goes, I tend to agree with leaving them alone....they are capable of defending themselves, I just think they need less commentary from the rest of the world everytime they do in fact deem it necessary to act in defense.

 

[Martin W.]

Hey TexUs. You've got a lot of good thoughts, and I'll think then through!!

As far as Israel goes, I tend to agree with leaving them alone....they are capable of defending themselves, I just think they need less commentary from the rest of the world everytime they do in fact deem it necessary to act in defense.

In the near future the God of Israel (the nation in the middle East) will put his finger down and banish the surrounding enemies so far out in the desert that half of them will say " OK Lord , we hear you loud and clear" we will back off now. . The other half will say "OK lord, we recognize you now, we will no longer come against you , we will now worship your God , The God of Israel"

That is what is next.

Arnie Madsen.

 

[Martin W.]

In the midst of all the prophecies , we must recognize that God of Israel will one day sit up and defend his people Israel.. The Nation in the Middle East.

He has been quiet for a long time. It is part of the plan,. When he arises he will not only surprise the heck out of Israel (the nation in the middle East) and her surrounding neighbours, but most of all , he will surprise the Christians who have got it all wrong for so many years.

The bible believing ones. Yes them. They will be confused the most. Confusion is very powerful.

It is like the God of Israel has sat back and watched what we humans will do. Then he surprises us.

Our biggest surprise will be that we knew it all along. It was right in front of us. The word of God we call it , right ???

Unless it does not exactly line up with our pre-conceived notions. Then we debate. On and on and on.

God will do exactly what he says he will. We cannot change it. Period. The timing is the hard part.

We are not the timekeepers.

Arnie Madsen
Martin Woodside
Canada.
Martin W.

 

[Charlie]

Dear Friends:

I'm surprised at the number of posters, on this forum, who are of the opinion the Christian Church is now Israel.

If that were so the nation of Israel, of today, would be a Christian nation but they are not. There are Christians living in present day Israel but the number of 'Old Testament Israelites' far out-number the Christians. They still worship under Old Testament law and when they are free to do so they will be offerings animals, as they did before the Romans drove them out.

Both Old and New Testament prophecies make it clear that Israel, as a nation, will continue into the millennium - with David as their king. Jer. 30:9. They will be a Christian nation at that time but they are not one now.

God Bless you. Charlie.

 

[tomwebster]

...
I'm surprised at the number of posters, on this forum, who are of the opinion the Christian Church is now Israel.
...

Most of the current descendants of the Tribes of Israel live right here in the USA. They are not Jews but are of the “lost tribes” and many of them call themselves Christian.

 

[aspen]

[font="'Book Antiqua"]This is an interesting topic - I am learning quite a bit from all of you. Although I really have not thought about this issue very much before, I have heard the argument put forth by certain Christians that God issued Israel a writ of divorce, which is used to justify the idea that Christians have replaced the Jewish people as God's children. Now, this seems to me to be over-reaching and possibly an example of proof-texting, but I am wondering what you all think about it.[/font]
[font="'Book Antiqua"]
[/font]
[sup][font="'Book Antiqua"]Jeremiah 3[/font][/sup]
[sup][font="'Book Antiqua"]
[/font][/sup]
[font="'Book Antiqua"][sup]8[/sup] I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery. [sup]9[/sup] Because Israel’s immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. [sup]10[/sup] In spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, but only in pretense,” declares the LORD. [sup]11[/sup] The LORD said to me, “Faithless Israel is more righteous than unfaithful Judah. [sup]12[/sup] Go, proclaim this message toward the north:

[/font]

 

[Anastacia]

Dear Friends:

I'm surprised at the number of posters, on this forum, who are of the opinion the Christian Church is now Israel.

If that were so the nation of Israel, of today, would be a Christian nation but they are not. There are Christians living in present day Israel but the number of 'Old Testament Israelites' far out-number the Christians. They still worship under Old Testament law and when they are free to do so they will be offerings animals, as they did before the Romans drove them out.

Both Old and New Testament prophecies make it clear that Israel, as a nation, will continue into the millennium - with David as their king. Jer. 30:9. They will be a Christian nation at that time but they are not one now.

God Bless you. Charlie.

Here are some passages from the Word of God that might help you. Please consider them carefully. This is about who the people of God are:


Romans 9:25-33 (New International Version, ©2010)

25 As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”

26 and,

“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”

27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out
his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”

29 It is just as Isaiah said previously:

“Unless the Lord Almighty
had left us descendants,
we would have become like Sodom,
we would have been like Gomorrah.”
Israel’s Unbelief
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.”

 

[TexUs]

In the near future the God of Israel (the nation in the middle East) will put his finger down and banish the surrounding enemies so far out in the desert that half of them will say " OK Lord , we hear you loud and clear" we will back off now. . The other half will say "OK lord, we recognize you now, we will no longer come against you , we will now worship your God , The God of Israel"

The people in the State of Israel don't worship the same God as I do- in fact John calls them antichrists.


I'm sorry but they worship a different God. I'm pretty sure the god they worship is both false and will never do anything.

In the midst of all the prophecies , we must recognize that God of Israel will one day sit up and defend his people Israel.. The Nation in the Middle East.

You can say that again and again and again but you must Biblically prove it. The Biblical evidence sits stauchly against you.
You demonstrate a lack of knowledge of who Israel really is, did you even read anything posted?

I'm surprised at the number of posters, on this forum, who are of the opinion the Christian Church is now Israel.

If that were so the nation of Israel, of today, would be a Christian nation but they are not.

There's no contradiction at all. The contradiction stems from your beginning assumption that the State of Israel (the world government in the middle east) is the same thing as Israel, God's People. That's not true.

This is an interesting topic - I am learning quite a bit from all of you. Although I really have not thought about this issue very much before, I have heard the argument put forth by certain Christians that God issued Israel a writ of divorce, which is used to justify the idea that Christians have replaced the Jewish people as God's children. Now, this seems to me to be over-reaching and possibly an example of proof-texting, but I am wondering what you all think about it.

I really don't think anything of it. You don't need "certificates of divorce"... You need an understanding of what Israel was, is, and will always be.

Notice the lack of Scriptural evidence from anyone trying to claim the Israel in the Middle East is the same one in the Bible ;)
It's the same, by name only.


I could name my child Abraham but it won't make him the Abraham of the Bible.

 

[aspen]

I took a class on the Middle East in college - it was taught by a Palestinian Christian - according to him, there are more Christian Palestinians living in the occupied territories than in Israel. Unfortunately, this population is often persecuted at home and forgotten by the West.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

It's hard for me to come to a decision as to what I believe Israel is or a Jew is. I probably shouldn't be having this discussion at this moment because I'm very sleepy and surely wont come across very clear. For that I appologize.

I'm still struggling trying to decide if they're still "God's People" or "God's Chosen". Seems to me that was for a time, then they were temporarily blinded until a measure of gentiles believed in Jesus. Then they weren't blinded anymore.

Now they reject the Son of God all by themselves.

Now,,,,, That's a deeper conversation/debate than I have right to even mention. However........ A question comes to mind.

Why are we all talking like us followers of Christ are second class citizens in Heaven?

So, Who exactly are God's people?

If Jesus says if 2 ore more are gathered in my name, there I am among them. So, we claim, we can have "church" anywhere. And we're all happy and thankful for that.

But we separate Israel and People. Without people there is no country only a name of a piece of land.

Now we make further seperations,,,, Jew's, (God's chosen, who should be revered, and hold all the primises of God, who God is more intently watching and caring for than anyone else.) Christians, (those of us who believe in Jesus, but lesser than Jews, and who get no promise from God, and are not part of Israel)

Never mind the fact that the promises to Israel was Jesus' Salvation. All the old covenant has been fullfilled. God has made a new covenant for those who are in Christ, who was the promise to Israel.

Now, Israel was Israel even in Egypt under Pharoh. If all of the United States picked up and moved to another continent with no other people, that would still be the United States, just the land will have a different name.

A nation of people are not bound and tied to a piece of ground. Much less the Children of God being tied to a piece of ground.

We are of the Kingdom of Heaven, We are the nation of Israel, We hold the promises of God. Those who reject Christ are not part of the Kingdom of God, even if their bloodline is Hebrew, and they live in Israel, and keep the Torah to the T.

Not one single solitary one of them are saved. Not one single law or sacrifice can bring them Salvation. Nothing they do regardless how well they follow the OT will bring them Salvation. They have to believe in Jesus Christ.

IMHO, Israel is the followers and Children of Jesus.

 

[TexUs]

We are of the Kingdom of Heaven, We are the nation of Israel, We hold the promises of God. Those who reject Christ are not part of the Kingdom of God, even if their bloodline is Hebrew, and they live in Israel, and keep the Torah to the T.

Not one single solitary one of them are saved. Not one single law or sacrifice can bring them Salvation. Nothing they do regardless how well they follow the OT will bring them Salvation. They have to believe in Jesus Christ.

IMHO, Israel is the followers and Children of Jesus.

Exactly (I disagreed with your usage of the "where two are gathered" tho lol).

All of God's People are God's Chosen- you might think about that... (Ephesians 1).