Glory in My Flesh

[marks]

Galatians 6:12-15 KJV
12) As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13) For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Paul is using circumcision here as the tip of the Law. Paul points out that if you go that route - circumcision, you then will be required to keep the entire Law.

There are many who will insist that we must keep the Law. Generally speaking, not the OT Law, exactly, but some version of it. Or, what I usually see is a custom combo between NT and OT "Law".

John wrote we have two commandments. We are to trust Jesus, and love others.

Trying to keep Law, either God's Law, or your own version, in order to be right with God is invariably a work of the flesh, as our reconciliation to God is in Christ, and not our ability to obey.

Those who would point me to Law are pointing me to the flesh, and if they can succeed, I will be subverting my own growth by trying to live according to fleshy attempts to make myself acceptable to God.

They don't even keep their own version of Law, but they will take pleasure in trying to get me to keep some Law, as they glory in my flesh.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Galatians 6:12-15 KJV
12) As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13) For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Paul is using circumcision here as the tip of the Law. Paul points out that if you go that route - circumcision, you then will be required to keep the entire Law.

There are many who will insist that we must keep the Law. Generally speaking, not the OT Law, exactly, but some version of it. Or, what I usually see is a custom combo between NT and OT "Law".

John wrote we have two commandments. We are to trust Jesus, and love others.

Trying to keep Law, either God's Law, or your own version, in order to be right with God is invariably a work of the flesh, as our reconciliation to God is in Christ, and not our ability to obey.

Those who would point me to Law are pointing me to the flesh, and if they can succeed, I will be subverting my own growth by trying to live according to fleshy attempts to make myself acceptable to God.

They don't even keep their own version of Law, but they will take pleasure in trying to get me to keep some Law, as they glory in my flesh.

Much love!

What I like to say to those of a legalist, religious mindset is that, as far as organized religion is concerned, I belong with the carcasses of discarded animals on the trash heap, good only to be burned, out of sight and out of mind. This is where the Lord Jesus is.

"11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name." (Hebrews 13.11-15)

 

[Nancy]

Galatians 6:12-15 KJV
12) As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
13) For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14) But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Paul is using circumcision here as the tip of the Law. Paul points out that if you go that route - circumcision, you then will be required to keep the entire Law.

There are many who will insist that we must keep the Law. Generally speaking, not the OT Law, exactly, but some version of it. Or, what I usually see is a custom combo between NT and OT "Law".

John wrote we have two commandments. We are to trust Jesus, and love others.

Trying to keep Law, either God's Law, or your own version, in order to be right with God is invariably a work of the flesh, as our reconciliation to God is in Christ, and not our ability to obey.

Those who would point me to Law are pointing me to the flesh, and if they can succeed, I will be subverting my own growth by trying to live according to fleshy attempts to make myself acceptable to God.

They don't even keep their own version of Law, but they will take pleasure in trying to get me to keep some Law, as they glory in my flesh.

Much love!

Good word bro,
You cannot mix and match! it is either the ONLY way (Christ) or. The WHOLE law, and to date, no man ever was able to keep the WHOLE law...it is a package deal IMHO-keep em all or break one....and yer done...IF that is where one places their faith that is.
There is not a thing that we can do to achieve a salvation that ONLY through Christ can we achieve!
Abundant blessings in Him!

 

[Wynona]

Trying to keep Law, either God's Law, or your own version, in order to be right with God is invariably a work of the flesh, as our reconciliation to God is in Christ, and not our ability to obey.

No. I used to believe this confusing message. I used to believe that all my efforts to resist sin were "works of the flesh." My conscience nagged at me, but surely it was because I wasn't trusting in Jesus' finished work. So I thought.

But obedience to the Lord is emphasized over and over in Scripture. We should not doctrine ourselves away from it.

We are free from the law of Moses. But the law of Christ requires obedience as well. Yes, obey the Lord. He deserves our obedience or He is not really "Lord" at all in our lives.

When we fall short, we are to repent and confess. We have an advocate with Jesus and He intercedes for us. But no, obedience is not a "work of the flesh". Resisting sin is not a "work of the flesh".

Hebrews 12:4 says Ye have not resisted unto blood striving against sin.

Jesus sweated blood in the garden of Gethsemane resisting his own will in order to what?

Obey the Lord.

Luke 6:46 KJV

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Abraham was justified by faith. And his faith was justified by his obedience in offering up Isaac (James 2:21)

 

[Nancy]

No. I used to believe this confusing message. I used to believe that all my efforts to resist sin were "works of the flesh." My conscience nagged at me, but surely it was because I wasn't trusting in Jesus' finished work. So I thought.

But obedience to the Lord is emphasized over and over in Scripture. We should not doctrine ourselves away from it.

We are free from the law of Moses. But the law of Christ requires obedience as well. Yes, obey the Lord. He deserves our obedience or He is not really "Lord" at all in our lives.

When we fall short, we are to repent and confess. We have an advocate with Jesus and He intercedes for us. But no, obedience is not a "work of the flesh". Resisting sin is not a "work of the flesh".

Hebrews 12:4 says Ye have not resisted unto blood striving against sin.

Jesus sweated blood in the garden of Gethsemane resisting his own will in order to what?

Obey the Lord.

Luke 6:46 KJV

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Abraham was justified by faith. And his faith was justified by his obedience in offering up Isaac (James 2:21)

WORD!

 

[farouk]

No. I used to believe this confusing message. I used to believe that all my efforts to resist sin were "works of the flesh." My conscience nagged at me, but surely it was because I wasn't trusting in Jesus' finished work. So I thought.

But obedience to the Lord is emphasized over and over in Scripture. We should not doctrine ourselves away from it.

We are free from the law of Moses. But the law of Christ requires obedience as well. Yes, obey the Lord. He deserves our obedience or He is not really "Lord" at all in our lives.

When we fall short, we are to repent and confess. We have an advocate with Jesus and He intercedes for us. But no, obedience is not a "work of the flesh". Resisting sin is not a "work of the flesh".

Hebrews 12:4 says Ye have not resisted unto blood striving against sin.

Jesus sweated blood in the garden of Gethsemane resisting his own will in order to what?

Obey the Lord.

Luke 6:46 KJV

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Abraham was justified by faith. And his faith was justified by his obedience in offering up Isaac (James 2:21)

@Wynona Interesting that Paul at the beginning and at the end of Romans refers to 'obedience to the faith' and 'the obedience of faith'. (Of course, it's certainly 'not of works'.)

 

[Enoch111]

We are free from the law of Moses. But the law of Christ requires obedience as well. Yes, obey the Lord. He deserves our obedience or He is not really "Lord" at all in our lives.

You've hit the nail on the head. The Law of Christ (which is more demanding than the Law of Moses) is applicable to every believer. And obedience to Christ is the evidence of salvation.

There's a lot of nonsense being bandied about regarding Christianity and the Gospel. But it is not complicated.

 

[marks]

We are free from the law of Moses. But the law of Christ requires obedience as well. Yes, obey the Lord. He deserves our obedience or He is not really "Lord" at all in our lives.

You've written that "Christ requires obedience". Now, I want to be very clear, I believe we are born again so that we will be conformed to the image of Christ, and in being so conformed, our thoughts and actions will mirror Christ.

When we say "Christ requires obedience", I have to ask, requires for what purpose? To be saved? To mature in our salvation? What exactly?

Some have said obedience is the evidence of salvation. Are we saying obedience is REQUIRED in order to be saved?

I find two opposing views concerning obedience.

One concerns our requirement to obey God, the other concerns Jesus' work in us to instill obedience.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God Who works within you both to will and to do what pleases Him.

One view places the burden on the man to obey. The other view places the burden on Jesus to conform us to His image.

It can be a suble shift from one to the other if we are not paying attention.

Before anyone launches their objections, of course we have our part to play. Of course we are responsible for those things God has already instilled in us.

There are a good number of people I've run into that place an ungodly focus on the requirements of man to appease a demanding God. Turning one's attention towards themself in and effort to "make it right" or "keep it right" with God is the fleshy work I'm talking about.

Not the internal choosing and exerting the will in order to walk worthy of our calling. This is our given duty.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, obey the Lord. He deserves our obedience or He is not really "Lord" at all in our lives.

Absolutely!

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

But obedience to the Lord is emphasized over and over in Scripture. We should not doctrine ourselves away from it.

Agreed. Do you believe in Prevenient Grace? I was sealed by the Holy Spirit before I believed. Although I was not a believer, I demonstrated what my real faith was by obeying the Holy Spirit.

I don't know why he chose to contact me but I thank God I was. It changed my life.

We are free from the law of Moses. But the law of Christ requires obedience as well.

Well said. Fact is, internal work IS a pre-requisite to be saved and this is not the same as the external works in the Bible.

The internal work we must do is slay the biggest IDOL in the world, our own ego. For if we think ourselves god, we have no need for a savior. It is only through humility that we can even begin to truly put our faith in Christ, which establishes Grace. Grace has been extended but we have to humble ourselves to accept it.

No one is saved by external works. If I build an alter or temple or feed the hungry or donate my time to charities, I do not earn points that eventually get me over the finish line of me saving myself.

The importance of discerning internal work from external works is seen in the fact that universalism is not correct doctrine. Had I not obeyed the Holy Spirit, if I grieved the Holy Spirit, if I blasphemed the Holy Spirit by categorizing his grace-led contact as irrelevant, a crazy thought, not worth talking about or not worth acting on, what would that say about what my beliefs truly were?

 

[Wynona]

Agreed. Do you believe in Prevenient Grace? I was sealed by the Holy Spirit before I believed. Although I was not a believer, I demonstrated what my real faith was by obeying the Holy Spirit.

I don't know why he chose to contact me but I thank God I was. It changed my life.



Well said. Fact is, internal work IS a pre-requisite to be saved and this is not the same as the external works in the Bible.

The internal work we must do is slay the biggest IDOL in the world, our own ego. For if we think ourselves god, we have no need for a savior. It is only through humility that we can even begin to truly put our faith in Christ, which establishes Grace. Grace has been extended but we have to humble ourselves to accept it.

No one is saved by external works. If I build an alter or temple or feed the hungry or donate my time to charities, I do not earn points that eventually get me over the finish line of me saving myself.

The importance of discerning internal work from external works is seen in the fact that universalism is not correct doctrine. Had I not obeyed the Holy Spirit, if I grieved the Holy Spirit, if I blasphemed the Holy Spirit by categorizing his grace-led contact as irrelevant, a crazy thought, not worth talking about or not worth acting on, what would that say about what my beliefs truly were?

What is Prevenient grace, exactly?

 

[Wynona]

You've written that "Christ requires obedience". Now, I want to be very clear, I believe we are born again so that we will be conformed to the image of Christ, and in being so conformed, our thoughts and actions will mirror Christ.

When we say "Christ requires obedience", I have to ask, requires for what purpose? To be saved? To mature in our salvation? What exactly?

Some have said obedience is the evidence of salvation. Are we saying obedience is REQUIRED in order to be saved?

I find two opposing views concerning obedience.

One concerns our requirement to obey God, the other concerns Jesus' work in us to instill obedience.

Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God Who works within you both to will and to do what pleases Him.

One view places the burden on the man to obey. The other view places the burden on Jesus to conform us to His image.

It can be a suble shift from one to the other if we are not paying attention.

Before anyone launches their objections, of course we have our part to play. Of course we are responsible for those things God has already instilled in us.

There are a good number of people I've run into that place an ungodly focus on the requirements of man to appease a demanding God. Turning one's attention towards themself in and effort to "make it right" or "keep it right" with God is the fleshy work I'm talking about.

Not the internal choosing and exerting the will in order to walk worthy of our calling. This is our given duty.

Much love!

Yes, obedience is required for salvation! Obedience starts with a heart that wants the Lord first and foremost. The Lord is worth any sacrifice and anything we have to give up.

First, we obey the gospel by believing in Jesus and His Work of atonement on the cross and repenting from the sin in our lives.

Then we obey the Lord through the power of the Spirit. His grace empowers us to obey increasingly as we surrender to Jesus.

If we do not obey the Lord, we are in danger of slipping into unbelief through the deceitfulness of sin.

Sin, if not repented of, hardens our hearts and leads to more sin.

If we mess up, we turn from that sin and repent, confessing it and forsaking it to pursue the Lord.

I don't think that its impossible to go an hour or a day without sinning. Why would the Lord tell us to depart from iniquity if were just destined to be mired in it all the time?

Its when we stop making excuses for our sin and pursue righteousness that joy and freedom comes. Saying, "well surely I can't stop sinning." Is the wrong attitude because surely you must.

The right attitude is "Every sin must go and God will help me clean house."

The right attitude is, "I won't let anything get in the way of God's presence in my life."

Sin is a taskmasker and an enslaver. We must serve something and if its not righteousness than we are slaves to sin.

Why limit the Lord by saying we can't attain sinlessness? If we chase after the Lord and love him, there's nothing He can't accomplish in us, if we would only love and tremble at His Word.

Im not going to back off of obedience and emphasizing obedience because that was what caused the breakthrough and blessing in my life. That's when I felt the presence of God. Not because He is just waiting for us to make a mistake but because He examines our hearts and intentions and seeks to reward those who dilligently seek Him.

When we come to Christ, our identity changes from sinners to Saints. By trusting Jesus, we know that He will give us the power to overcome all sins big and small so that our lives please Him.

The question is, do we truly want to please Him? And I think any Christian would say yes. Im saying you do not have to settle for sin mopping the floor up with you as it once did in my life. We can fight back by crying out to God in the moments of temptation and taking every thought captive for Him.

 

[Wrangler]

What is Prevenient grace, exactly?

Saved before you put your faith in Christ.

 

[Wynona]

Saved before you put your faith in Christ.

I suppose not. I can see that God was faithful and good to me as He is to all people before I was saved. But I don't believe we are saved before we put our faith in Christ.

Although, Im curious, why do you believe in Prevenient grace?

I don't have all the answers on this so my position isn't from a place of 100 percent confidence.

 

[marks]

I don't think that its impossible to go an hour or a day without sinning. Why would the Lord tell us to depart from iniquity if were just destined to be mired in it all the time?

Amen!!!

This is one of those central key truths I desire to share. God intends us to live innocent lives. And He has provided that for us.

Why would God tell me to reckon myself dead to sin and alive to God if that were not true?? It is most certainly true.

Paul gives us his example.

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Paul is saying here that he's not qualified to actually judge himself, Jesus does that. But notwithstanding, he "knows nothing by" himself, literally, 'nothing to myself'. He's saying, he's not aware of wrongdoing in himself, but he recongizes that he may not realize fully.

In another place he says, forgetting what is behind, pressing into the upward call of Christ.

As I trust in Jesus' having removed all sin, that's where I find sin is in fact removed from me. It's still there, I know, it will be until I'm resurrected or transformed. And it comes out, I'm no fool to say it does not. Those are times I've invariably stopped trusting Him, stopped centering my mind on Him, and His love and forgiveness. That's when I start to slip.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Although, Im curious, why do you believe in Prevenient grace?

Experience. Then I learned what I experienced is called.

Not everyone receives Prevenient grace. Most don’t.

 

[marks]

Although, Im curious, why do you believe in Prevenient grace?

What is a Biblical definition of prevenient grace? Like in Titus 2:11? Jesus, "if I be lifted up, I will draw all men to myself"? Like that?

Much love!