Biblical Mary

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Ronald Nolette

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you know the real point!

you don’t get to be his “mother” to care for her

Spiritual mother


Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.


She is not the churches spiritual mother, you are taking REv. 12 which refers to Israel and force it to mean Mary.

The Title Queen of Heaven is an abomination and people are forbidden to do obescience to the queen of Heaven.

Rachel came to be called the pseudonym for Israel. That was commonly known. Reason? She was the beloved of Jacob and bore Him two of the most prominent of the twelve tribes. It doesn't give anyone the warrant to do the same with Mary.

John cared for Mary as His own mother. You should learn how language is learned so you won't fall prey to deceptive philosophies that were borne in heathen practices.
 

Webers_Home

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FAQ: Did Jesus' mom expect him back from death?

A: I don't think so. A search of the names of the women who went out to
Christ's gravesite on Easter morning doesn't find her mentioned among
them.

None of Christ's original disciples believed he was going to recover from
crucifixion, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that Christ's mom didn't believe
either. It's not like she committed some kind of heinous atrocity or gross sin.
Her doubt was simply status quo among Christ's followers.

There's really very few plausible Bible reasons why Christ's mom wasn't out
in the cemetery waiting to greet her son Easter morning.

1» She didn't believe he was coming back

2» She didn't believe he could come back

3» She forgot he said he was coming back

4» She didn't know he said he was coming back

5» She was indisposed when he came back

6» She was out of town when he came back

In regards to No.1; because normal mothers are so bonded to their own
flesh and blood, this reason seems to me the most likely.

In regards to No.2; the physical mess Jesus was in after his ordeal makes
this a likely possibility; but no excuse.

In regards to No.3; that actually happened to a number of the disciples-- but
would a normal mother forget something like that?

In regards to No.4; it's highly unlikely Jesus would confide such an
important matter with his disciples and not his own mom-- the alleged
Queen Of Heaven and the Mother Of All Christians?

In regards to No.5; there's nothing in the Gospel narratives suggesting
Christ's mom was indisposed.

In regards to No.6; it's highly unlikely Christ's mom would leave Jerusalem if
she knew her boy was going to recover from crucifixion. Any truly loving
mother would want to be on hand when her boy was restored to life and his
injuries healed. Surely that would be just as much cause for a joyous
reunion as a son coming home alive and well from Afghanistan.

I don't know if any hereabouts have children of their own, but I can tell you
from 39+ years of parental experience with a very sensitive woman, that if
my son were to be killed, and his mother expected him back in three days;
she would have been camped out in that cemetery all three of those days
waiting for him; and threats to cut her throat wouldn't persuade her
otherwise. Any normal mother would have been out there in that cemetery
even if there was only a remote chance their boy might recover. I know,
because I've seen that kind of mother's love right here in my own home.

If Christ's mom truly believed her boy would recover, and truly expected him
to; then if she was even half the mother my wife is; she would have been
out there at the very least on the third day waiting for him with food and
water and fresh clothing; but alas, she wasn't: not because she didn't love
her son; but simply because she wasn't expecting him to be there.
_
 

Ronald Nolette

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Ummmmm, what happened to all of her "other" children, hmmmm?


An honest question ofr you. As you excoriate all the references I gave you as being biased because they spoke ill or Romanism, does that mean you reject also the Catholic scholars who spoke ill of sects like, the Montanists, Donatists, Lollards, Albegensians, the protestants et. al and we should reject everything they say because they too were biased?
 

Mungo

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The fact is you just responded to a post that saying nothing about "mary the widow of joseph"....
Why the deception on your part?

No deception.
I re-iterated the part of my post that you failed to answer.

The rest of your post was just prevarication.
 

Webers_Home

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My love must be a kind of blind love,
I can't see anyone but you.
Are the stars out tonight?
I don't know if it's cloudy or bright,
I only have eyes for you.

The moon may be high,
But I can't see a thing in the sky.
I only have eyes for you.

I don't know if we're in a garden,
Or on a crowded avenue.
Maybe millions of people go by,
But they all disappear from view,
And I only have eyes for you.
Harry Warren and Al Dubin, 1934
_
 

Berserk

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Yes, I've always found it interesting how ALL Mary's "other children" suddenly vanish at the foot of the cross, leaving Jesus with NO other choice than to leave her to the care of someone outside the family.

What are Fundy friends don't get is that, 40+ days later Mary is present at Christian prayer vigils with Jesus' "brothers," clearly a reference to family members, however "brothers" is understood:

"All these were constantly devoting themselves to prayer, together with certain women, including Mary the mother of Jesus, as well as His brothers (Acts 1:14)."

Clearly family members are taking care of Mary!
 
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theefaith

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She is not the churches spiritual mother, you are taking REv. 12 which refers to Israel and force it to mean Mary.

The Title Queen of Heaven is an abomination and people are forbidden to do obescience to the queen of Heaven.

Rachel came to be called the pseudonym for Israel. That was commonly known. Reason? She was the beloved of Jacob and bore Him two of the most prominent of the twelve tribes. It doesn't give anyone the warrant to do the same with Mary.

John cared for Mary as His own mother. You should learn how language is learned so you won't fall prey to deceptive philosophies that were borne in heathen practices.

Rev 12:17 when did the children of Israel ever keep the commandments or have the testimony of Jesus???
They killed him!!!
 

Taken

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There is only one child in Rev 12
There is only one woman in Rev 12

The "child" (vs 5)is "a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne," Only one person in scripture fits that description - Jesus
The woman gave birth to that child. (vs2 & 5)
There is only one person in scripture who gave birth to Jesus and that is Mary.

But note what I said in post #541

No I am not going to back track your posts.
Your post here is sufficient.

There is only one woman in Rev 12

No, there are THREE Women references. in Revelations 12;
EVE, first woman tricked by Satan.
ISRAEL, mother land of the Tribes of Israel.
Mary, who delivered forth A man child, that God had sent to her womb.


Rev.12
[1] And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
^ that woman IS ISRAEL...and the crown of twelve stars represents the twelve Tribes.

[2] And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
^ that SHE IS ISRAEL...crying, in Pain to be Delivered.

[3] And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
She, (ISRAEL) can not be delivered, UNTIL the red dragon with world power is revealed.

[4] And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
This WOMAN IS EVE. Backtracking in history, the dragon, who WAS Lucifer, convinced one third of Gods holy angels to deflect from their heavenly estate and go with Lucifer TO THE EARTH....Because God was creating man and woman....and Lucifer now revealed is the Dragon and also called the Serpent and called the Devil; ...hisself went into Gods Garden to TRICK the Woman, called EVE, which the Serpent did....and Thus God said, there would be enmity between that WOMAN, EVE and the Serpent and the Serpents seed and that WOMANS seed...ISRAEL.
THAT WOMAN IS EVE.
Like you, Satan can read Scripture but can not understand it.... Satan went after Eve to deceive her.
EVE, expressly called the mother of all living things....
Ya think Satan's ears didn't tune in .... If Satan's cold kill Eve, she would have NO offspring!



[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

This She is Mary.
She who brought forth out of her womb, A child, called the Son of man....was an event 4,000 years after EVE.
By following the Genealogy, and Gods Word....Mary married to Joseph means they WERE ONE...
Joseph was of the House of David, And thus Any offspring that came forth out of Mary's womb, WHILE she was married to Joseph, would LEGALLY, be of the House of David....And precisely one of (several) of the reasons WHY, the man child, Sent forth out from God, TO EARTH, WAS SENT to Mary's virgin womb.
* THIS SHE...IS Mary wife of Joseph of the House of David.


[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
THIS WOMAN, IS ISRAEL, and IS a "foretelling" of a vision that has NOT YET occured. Tribesmen from ALL over the wiorld, WHO ARE OF THE TWELVE TRIBES, called ISRAEL will flee their nations, and WILL GO to the wilderness...
And there for 42 months, or 3.5 years "THEY" should feed her....
Any clue WHO shall FEED the tribes of Israel for 3.5 years in the wilderness?
Scripture tells us, 12,000 each from each of the twelve tribes, total 144,000.
And what shall they feed the Tribes of Israel?
A birthday cake? No, They shall feed the 12 Tribes the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
WHEN? During the Tribulation.



[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
[11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
[13] And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
This WOMAN is Mary who, from her womb, a man child was revealed.

[14] And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
This WOMAN is ISRAEL. Where ISRAEL is in the wilderness Hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, for 3.5 years

[15] And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
THIS WOMAN IS ISRAEL, in the wilderness, during the ATribulation, whereby we are told the Serpent will cause a flood in an attempt to sweep away Israel with a flood...FUture, and will fail.


[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
This WOMAN is ISRAEL, in the wilderness, unscathed by the Serpents attempt to cause a flood...(pretty insignificant)....the wilderness they GO to is on a mountain top! (Flooding on a mountain top? Satan is desperate!)


[17] And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
This WOMAN is ISRAEL. And the Remnant of Her (tribes of Israel, not yet having been Killed by Satan)....who heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and become Saved.
 

BreadOfLife

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POSIT: The Hail Mary (a.k.a. Ave Maria) is a biblical prayer. God gave it to
us. It's in the Bible in black and white.


RESPONSE: According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the "Hail Mary" is not an
in-the-Bible prayer, rather, it's a developed prayer; and it was developed
over a number of years.

Here's the entire text of the so-called Hail Mary.

Hail [Mary] full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb [Jesus].
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

"Hail, the Lord is with thee" was
plagiarized from Gabriel's greeting at Luke
1:28 (Douay-Rheims version).

"[Mary] full of grace" is fabricated.

"blessed art thou amongst women" was
plagiarized from Elizabeth's greeting
at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"blessed is the fruit of thy womb" was also
plagiarized from Elizabeth's
greeting at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our
death. Amen." is attributed to the intervention of one Ste. Peter Canisius for
its acceptance into the Catechism of the Council of Trent in the year 1566.

Obviously then, pieces and parts of the Hail Mary, in its official form, are
snipped from the Bible; but the body text of the prayer itself, is not actually
in the Bible; viz: instead of God-given, it's a man-made supplication
concocted from excerpts; with an ending invocation spun entirely from
imagination.


FAQ: What's wrong with using the Ave Maria for personal prayer?

A: It's a scripted performance; as such it fails to comply with Heb 4:15-16,
which says:

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our
weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in every way, yet
without sin. So let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive
mercy and to find grace for timely help."

The Greek word for "confidently" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which
means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

Reciting the lines of a script is not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor out
spoken, nor candid. It's actually not much different than reciting a Hindu
mantra or chanting the pages of a siddur like one of those Jews bobbing
back and forth like a car toy at the Wailing Wall. In tech-speak: the Hail
Mary is a robo call; and we all know how annoying those detestable things
can be.
_
Thank you for yet another ignorant, anti-Catholic rant.

You are correct about ONE part of the "Hail Mary" - the beginning Greeting.
The angel DIDN'T actually say, "Hail MARY, full of grace."
What he actually said was FAR ore meaningful.

In the Greek - we read that the Angel actually says to Mary: "Rejoice, Kecharitomene (χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη)."
This is the Greeting that "troubled" Mary (v. 29). because of the ramifications of the term, Kecharitomene.

Kecharitomene translates as "one, having been perfectly completely and enduriglky endowed with grace."
It indicates a COMPLETED action with a PERMANENT result.

The prayer, however, is based on the shortened version of Jerome's Latin transliteration of "Gratia plena" (Full of grace).

As for your charges of other parts of the prayer being "plagiarized" from Scripture - this is asinine - even for YOU.
Since WHEN is it "plagiarism" to quote Scripture?? The Lord's prayer is derived completely from Scripture - is that "plagiarism" in your eyes? Was Jesus guilty of "plagiarizing" when He quoted Scripture to Satan when being tempted in the desert?

this is just another ridiculous attempt on your part to invent things to hurl at Catholics . . .
 

theefaith

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What are Fundy friends don't get is that, 40+ days later Mary is present at Christian prayer vigils with Jesus' "brothers," clearly a reference to family members, however "brothers" is understood:

"All these were constantly devoting themselves to prayer, together with certain women, including Mary the mother of Jesus, as well as His brothers (Acts 1:14)."

Clearly family members are taking care of Mary!

clearly not!

acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

brethren refers to his disciples
 

BreadOfLife

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You making the claim of "scandal" without evidence.
The "evidence" would be comparable to a LIKE situation.
You did not present any evidence of "sandal" for a dying son to make arrangements for his widowed mother.
And I'll give you a Scriptural comparison - just as soon as YOU give me solid evidence that Mary had "other children" who could have taken cars of her after Jesus's death.
 

BreadOfLife

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For starters ... answer IF you can;
What Bibles WERE historically and ARE modernally "official Catholic Bibles"?

And what "Bible" do you use? to find the words....explicitly that Jesus, who is God, is also a "HUMAN BEING"?

And you are aware....you just conveyed....God, also like Jesus, IS a human being?
I NEVER use Catholic Bibles in my debates here.
I use the KJV, ESV or NIV so that we're on an even playing field - because I can debunk all of your man-made doctrines using your OWN Bible translations.

ALL of the verse I gave you use the Greek word "Anthropos" to describe Jesus - which means a MALE HUMAN.
 

Taken

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what makes you think it has to be in scripture?
Where does scripture say so?

It doesn't say Scripture ALONE, it says: SCRIPTURE IS: and never says, another writing IS; inspired by God.
2 Tim 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

It never says, SEEK the Writings OUTSIDE of Scripture....inspired by a handful of men calling themselves Catholic, hovering around a roundtable inspired by their own thoughts, and writing their own Doctrine, and Instructions in Righteousness.
Following them, is your chosen path to take.

It says they held the doctrine of the apostles! Not some fundamentalist rant about the Bible alone!

LOL...so hostile. I have never said Bible ALONE. I have never called myself a fundamentalist.....But then....being Catholic, no need to speak what IS true, just speak what your catholic teachers have told you to believe is true. And make up accusations...when you can not stand on your own merit.

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus preached the truth.
Jesus taught the truth to the curious not following, to His Diciples and to His Apostles.... His Apostles appointed men, Jew and Gentile to carry on SPEAKING JESUS" TRUTH....open your eyes....
The Apostles died off. The Jews returned to their Synagogs, preaching God, and the Gentiles soon began writing their own doctrines OUTSIDE of Jesus' Doctrine.

Matt 28 says teach not right down and pass out bibles

Incoherent and improperly identifying any particular verse.


Jesus never wrote any scripture

So? Scribes wrote the bulk of Scripture.
Jesus was not a Scribe. Jesus READ Scriptures and QUOTED Scripture many times .Did you not know the OT was Scripture?
 

BreadOfLife

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LOL...the ONLY WOMAN IN THE GARDEN WAS EVE.

GEN 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
WHAT WOMAN...? DUH, THE WOMAN THE SERPENT JUST BEGUILED! DUH!

AND ADDITIONALY, ENMITY BETWEEN THE SERPENTS SEED AND "HER"...THE WOMAN...EVE'S...SEED...OFFSPRING.

ANY CONNECTION TO MARY, WOULD REVEAL...FIRST MARY IS A DIRECT DESCENDENT OF EVE, AND THUS A OFFSPRING, SEED OF EVE...

YOU REWRITE SCRIPTURE CLAIMING MARY WAS THE WOMAN IN GEN ... WHEN CLEARLY IT WAS EVE.
You CAN'T be this stupid.
Jesus was NOT the see of Eve. He was NOT her offspring - any more that YOU are her offspring.

Jesus was the offspring of His mother who conceived Him in HER womb and carried Him for 9 months and gave birth to Him.
UNBELIEVABLE ignorance . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Nothing new... Make a claim, then DOGDE providing ANY Proof of your claim.
Virtually EVERY exchange you and I have is because of one of your perverted man-made doctrines.
 

BreadOfLife

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Well for the sake of this discussion, when we talk of catholics- we are speaking of the Roman flavor! Yes I know there are other catholic sects that are not part of the Roman Catholic Church.

I wold love to see these 19 liturgical rites cancelled out by the term "Romanism". I hope it is more informative than how we are to determine who is or isn't a "credible historic scholar" you so often spoke of.
That's NOT what I'm talking about, Einstein.

The Roman Rite is only ONE of about TWENTY Liturgical Rites - which ALL belong to the Catholic Church.
Your derogatory use of the term "Romanism" only serves to magnify your abject ignorance of this fact.

I'm embarrassed for you when I read your ignorant nonsense . . .
 

TheslightestID

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The Church was founded by Jesus (not the Apostles). He founded it on the Apostles (Eph 2:20) and it is described as the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15).
He appointed those Apostles with Peter as the leader (Mt 16:18-19) and gave them the mission to take the gospel to the ends of the earth. (Mt 28:16-20)
He promised he would not leave them on their own (Jn 14:18) but that he would be with them until the end of the age (Mt 28:20)
He prayed that it would be one Church (Jn 17:20-23)
That Church is headed by Christ (Col 1:18), but he appointed Peter to be the visible head on earth (Mt 16:18-19), to be the universal shepherd (Jn 21:15-17) of Christ’s one fold (Jn 10:16).

The Church didn't die out when the apostles died. They appointed successors to their ministry to carry forward all that they had been taught. And they in their turn appointed successors to carry forward all that they had been taught and so on for 2,000 years.

This is the Catholic Church.

Still just people in a church. Lets be honest here, thr Catholic chirch is far from good, you know their reputation for doing some of the most hortible things, and you actually have the nerve to sit there and tell me how reputable these people are?
 

BreadOfLife

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Well I can venture some hypotheses, but as I cannot give empirical evidence to prove any of them, I do not know why Jesus di dnot entrust Mary with James, Joses, Simon, Judah, or one of His at least two sisters. It could be that at the time of His death they satill were unbelievers in HIm and Jesus simply entrusted Mary to One He could trust well! As a cousinf of Jesus, Jesus could do that and still fulfill the law.

But isn't it interesting that at this final hour of His life- He addressed Mary as woman and not mother!
What's even MORE interesting is WHY he called her "Woman" in the final hour of His life.

Jesus was fulfilling the prophecy from Gen. 3:16 about the seed of the WOMAN (Mary) crushing the head of the serpent.
What ELSE would He call her but, "Woman"??
 

Taken

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And I'll give you a Scriptural comparison - just as soon as YOU give me solid evidence that Mary had "other children" who could have taken cars of her after Jesus's death.


If you are unable to verify a source for what you say,
That's on you.
Nothing in Scripture says Mary remaiined a virgin.

Scripture does say:
Gen 1:
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

The man was clearly the womans husband.
Gen:3:6

The woman was clearly the mans wife.
Gen 3:8

If you have some Scripture that says, God changed HIS plan, and husbands and wives were to no longer, be fruitful, and multiply...
Spit it out.

Now there is a time when ....Jesus IS speaking to a crowd .... and
Matt 12:
[46] While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
[47] Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
[48] But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
[49] And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
[50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Now, Mary and Whoever was "outside" with Mary, were Ignored... and Jesus EXPRESSLY stretched forth his had toward "His crowd of Disciples" on the "inside", and said Behold...
LOOK, those sitting with Him on the "inside" were they Jesus called "His mother and His brethren".
Where is Mary ever depicted in Scirpture as a disciple following Jesus around listening to Him?
Maybe she was too busy tending house and taking care of her children....her being a faithful believing in God....who said for husbands and wives to multiply.