Mistake in Translation - Galatians 5:17

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CharismaticLady

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Good point, it's this tent or vehicle we get around in. The physical body is dying and will, but the soul (mind, eill emotions) is also corrupt.

The born again experience is supernatural, Ronald. Since Adam sinned all have corrupt minds UNTIL Christ gives us the mind of Christ. It is a renewing of the mind and emotions as we grow in the fruit of the Spirit. Does your denomination teach you that even after being born again your mind is corrupt?

Jesus was manifest to take away our sin, and in Him is no sin. So, again, how much is ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS? Is it just part or is it all? Your analogy isn't scriptural and frankly, a slap in Jesus' face for the price He paid to free you from sin.
 

marks

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Good point, it's this tent or vehicle we get around in. The physical body is dying and will, but the soul (mind, eill emotions) is also corrupt.
This is going to open up another can of worms. The soul and spirit are nit the same. They are high integrated along with our bodies.
We are partly a cleansed spirit that communes with God in a special compartment within us, likened to the Old Temple -Most Holy Place. This place is without sin, it has to be, God dwells there. The outer courtyard of our Temple however is the soul of man, our flesh, where sin dwells.
Actually the physical Old Temple is a model of our new spiritual temple.
The Word is sharper than a two-edged sword ... able to divide soul and spirit.

I really like your description there!

As far as soul and spirit, I'm thinking that what we call "soul", our sense of identity, our thoughts and subsequent feelings, that these are contained in the electro-chemical physiology of the brain, the brain that is part of our corrupted flesh. The physical body is corrupted by sin, so the mind that is produced by it's brain is likewise corrupt, producing corrupt thoughts of sin.

Being born from God, we are a new creature, a spirit being who lives in the heavenly realm, seated together in the heavenlies, hid with Christ in God. As Paul wrote, We "have" a building from God, not made by hands, eternal in the heavens.

I'm still "me", so I have the same body I'm using to function in this world, all it's memories, it's "ways", that is, habits, routines, entrenched neural pathways.

likened to the Old Temple -Most Holy Place. This place is without sin, it has to be, God dwells there. The outer courtyard of our Temple however is the soul of man, our flesh, where sin dwells.
Actually the physical Old Temple is a model of our new spiritual temple.

I've been focusing on Hebrews recently . . .

Hebrews 9:7-12 KJV
7) But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11) But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12) Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The first tabernacle was coming to God through Law, outward representation of what the right heart would look like. Now we have entered through Christ, who has "entered once" into the holiest place.

Hebrews 6:19-20 KJV
19) Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
20) Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Jesus is our High Priest serving in the holiest place, anchoring us to the Eternal One.

It's really good to sit here and meditate on this! :) Jesus is serving as my High Priest in the Holiest Place, and in my heart, anchoring me to there.

Anyway, I always seem to open a can of worms whenever I start talking about the corruption of the flesh to be actual damage to our bodies, from original sin, and nature, and nurture, and our own bad choices. We are irreparably damaged already, and further damaged in the course of human affairs.

But it's very much what I find in the Bible, and in my life.

The flesh is indeed corrupt, but the "new man" is in fact righteous and holy and does not sin. And the gap is being closed by the renewing of our minds.

Much love!
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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The born again experience is supernatural, Ronald. Since Adam sinned all have corrupt minds UNTIL Christ gives us the mind of Christ. It is a renewing of the mind and emotions as we grow in the fruit of the Spirit. Does your denomination teach you that even after being born again your mind is corrupt?

Jesus was manifest to take away our sin, and in Him is no sin. So, again, how much is ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS? Is it just part or is it all? Your analogy isn't scriptural and frankly, a slap in Jesus' face for the price He paid to free you from sin.
Let me approach this another way since you do not accept what I said.
Read the context of the scripture.
You say it is not a capital S, signifying the Holy Spirit.
Every single word for spirit has a capital in the entire passage.
" I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law." Gal. 5:16-23

You are familiar with verses 22 and 23, two of the most popular verses in the Bible .
You can also check out about 40 different English translations at the Biblegateway.com - they all have a capital S.
 

Robert Gwin

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Let me ask you a question. Read the next verse.

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

How much sin is left? Would you really be lying if your answer was none? Think!

Another question: How many times must you repent and be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit that frees us from sin by placing God's Spirit within you causing you to be born again?

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Were those people Peter was speaking to to repent already born again? Or was this command to repent to become a Christian? Now ask yourself to go back to 1 John 1:8 and ask yourself if John was addressing a Christian, or someone who merely said they don't sin so no need to repent.


Being born again, has nothing to do with sin maam. All of them have been selected from among mankind to be Kings and Priests in the Kingdom of God. I would imagine that none of them committed serious sins, but I really don't know. But one thing is for certain, all of them did and do sin.
 

CharismaticLady

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Being born again, has nothing to do with sin maam. All of them have been selected from among mankind to be Kings and Priests in the Kingdom of God. I would imagine that none of them committed serious sins, but I really don't know. But one thing is for certain, all of them did and do sin.

May I ask which denomination taught you this? Thanks.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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As far as soul and spirit, I'm thinking that what we call "soul", our sense of identity, our thoughts and subsequent feelings, that these are contained in the electro-chemical physiology of the brain, the brain that is part of our corrupted flesh. The physical body is corrupted by sin, so the mind that is produced by it's brain is likewise corrupt, producing corrupt thoughts of sin.

Didn't address this earlier, it is important to discuss,
For the purpose of outward consumption, and not that you aren't aware of this but what is referred to as the flesh is not just the physical body. Our mind, will and emotions are considered part of our freshly existence _ tainted with sin _ which is why our spirits will eventually be separated from it,

The new creature in Christ, reflective of all the good that we are, will leave behind the junk.
As for the brain, filled with tissues and chemicals, it is used by the mind. Neurotransmitters send messages to parts of the body that instantly function how we want it to - most of the times.
Our bodies are corrupted, genetically flawed,
and so when there is brain damage or disease, our mental faculties are effected.
Here is the thing, you can't dissect a brain and see thoughts on ideas, talents. There is no information, only physical anatomy, because those things are invisible. Hence, your mind is invisble.,The mind and brain are highly integrated to the point that they seem like one. We get foggy and can't think clearly, we forget. It could be lack of sleep, lack of proper nutrition and exercise of just old age. It is interesting that all that you ever did or said or know is locked in your subconscious. Some people have instant recall. Folks on Jeopardy - wow, walking encyclopedias. That must be annoying to most people to be around someone like that - always correcting you. It's probably boring for them to be around us, who are too slow and not that knowlegable.
The point is, when we finallly separate from our flesh, we will have clarity like never before. All that we know will be accessible.
 
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marks

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Didn't address this earlier, ir ia important to discuss,
For the purpose of outward consumption, and not that you aren't aware of this but what is referred to as the flesh is not just the physical body. Our mind, will and emotions are considered part of our freshly existence _ tainted with sin _ which is why our spirits will eventually be separated from it,

The new creature reflective of all the good that we are will leave behind the junk.
As for the brain, filled with tissues and chemicals, it is use by the mind. Neurotransmitters send messages
My thinking is that the physical corruption of the body translated into a corrupted mind.

For instance, major depression is a mental/emotional state, existing because of damage or mal-development to the brain.

Much love!
 

Ronald David Bruno

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My thinking is that the physical corruption of the body translated into a corrupted mind.

For instance, major depression is a mental/emotional state, existing because of damage or mal-development to the brain.

Much love!
That is true. We see that with drugs and alcohol abuse. What amazes me is the effects on the mind caused by a mere capital "S".
 
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marks

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It is a renewing of the mind and emotions as we grow in the fruit of the Spirit. Does your denomination teach you that even after being born again your mind is corrupt?
What is the "renewing of the mind"? What does that mean?

For me, this speaks of the process by which we come to stop thinking the way we did according to the flesh, and start thinking according to our new creation spirit. What does it mean to you?

Much love!
 

Robert Gwin

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May I ask which denomination taught you this? Thanks.

I am one of Jehovah's witnesses maam, but I am unsure if they actually taught me that, it is kind of self explanatory if one is aware of Rom3:23. All Christians whether born again or of the other sheep sin, but through the sacrifice given in our behalf, we are washed clean of those sins in the blood of the lamb. Unless of course we leave God and pursue a life of sin.
 

CharismaticLady

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I am one of Jehovah's witnesses maam, but I am unsure if they actually taught me that, it is kind of self explanatory if one is aware of Rom3:23. All Christians whether born again or of the other sheep sin, but through the sacrifice given in our behalf, we are washed clean of those sins in the blood of the lamb. Unless of course we leave God and pursue a life of sin.

That is surprising because it is the theory of predestination, and I wasn't aware that JWs taught that. It is more along the teachings of Calvinists. JWs teach the opposite of your belief on sin. At least the JWs I've talked to don't teach what you believe. Maybe you were in a Reformed church before JW.
 

CharismaticLady

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Didn't address this earlier, it is important to discuss,
For the purpose of outward consumption, and not that you aren't aware of this but what is referred to as the flesh is not just the physical body. Our mind, will and emotions are considered part of our freshly existence _ tainted with sin _ which is why our spirits will eventually be separated from it,

The new creature in Christ, reflective of all the good that we are, will leave behind the junk.
As for the brain, filled with tissues and chemicals, it is used by the mind. Neurotransmitters send messages to parts of the body that instantly function how we want it to - most of the times.
Our bodies are corrupted, genetically flawed,
and so when there is brain damage or disease, our mental faculties are effected.
Here is the thing, you can't dissect a brain and see thoughts on ideas, talents. There is no information, only physical anatomy, because those things are invisible. Hence, your mind is invisble.,The mind and brain are highly integrated to the point that they seem like one. We get foggy and can't think clearly, we forget. It could be lack of sleep, lack of proper nutrition and exercise of just old age. It is interesting that all that you ever did or said or know is locked in your subconscious. Some people have instant recall. Folks on Jeopardy - wow, walking encyclopedias. That must be annoying to most people to be around someone like that - always correcting you. It's probably boring for them to be around us, who are too slow and not that knowlegable.
The point is, when we finallly separate from our flesh, we will have clarity like never before. All that we know will be accessible.

Our flesh is the brain. But the mind is not. It is separate and that and our heart are reborn. It is the result of a supernatural event/experience - baptized with the Holy Spirit, and has nothing to do with nature.
 

CharismaticLady

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That is true. We see that with drugs and alcohol abuse. What amazes me is the effects on the mind caused by a mere capital "S".

I'm not sure you are agreeing with me or belittling me...o_O

I don't take drug, but I do agree that a whole different doctrine happens with the capitalization of that "S." It actually diminishes the gospel.
 

marks

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Our flesh is the brain. But the mind is not. It is separate and that and our heart are reborn. It is the result of a supernatural event/experience - baptized with the Holy Spirit, and has nothing to do with nature.
I'm curious, do you think Christians can have mental illness?

Much love!
 

Ronald David Bruno

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I'm not sure you are agreeing with me or belittling me...o_O

I don't take drug, but I do agree that a whole different doctrine happens with the capitalization of that "S." It actually diminishes the gospel.
I am not belittling you. None of my posts are about you only that I think the capital S is where it supposed to be. You know some of this discussion about the soul and spirit has confounded scholars. It's advanced, and actually not fully understood by anyone. We know in part. Some things are not so clearly received. You just picked a topic over all our heads. Don't worry about it. Sigmund Froyd could'nt understand the mind. If you asked the Pope, He might know. But then his explanation might conflict with John MacArthur's or RC Sproul's. Still it is beyond our ability. I just like to get deep.
The brain has four quadrillion connections. Imagine a huge forest of trees a million square miles. Each tree has 100,000 leaves and each tree was connect to eachother. That's how vast the brain is. Then the soul and spirit ... you have to imagine they are just as complex. We can only scratch the surface.
 

CharismaticLady

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I am not belittling you. None of my posts are about you only that I think the capital S is where it supposed to be. You know some of this discussion about the soul and spirit has confounded scholars. It's advanced, and actually not fully understood by anyone. We know in part. Some things are not so clearly received. You just picked a topic over all our heads. Don't worry about it. Sigmund Froyd could'nt understand the mind. If you asked the Pope, He might know. But then his explanation might conflict with John MacArthur's or RC Sproul's. Still it is beyond our ability. I just like to get deep.
The brain has four quadrillion connections. Imagine a huge forest of trees a million square miles. Each tree has 100,000 leaves and each tree was connect to eachother. That's how vast the brain is. Then the soul and spirit ... you have to imagine they are just as complex. We can only scratch the surface.

I don't believe it is beyond our abilities when you compare Scripture with Scripture. Besides, the Holy Spirit of Truth reveals what it means if you just ask and are open. After all both Romans and Galatians were both written by Paul and he used the same wording. It doesn't take a scholar to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4.
 
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Robert Gwin

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That is surprising because it is the theory of predestination, and I wasn't aware that JWs taught that. It is more along the teachings of Calvinists. JWs teach the opposite of your belief on sin. At least the JWs I've talked to don't teach what you believe. Maybe you were in a Reformed church before JW.

I would be interested in any Jehovah's Witness who thinks born again Christians do not sin, even after their receiving their baptism maam. You see, we all speak in agreement 1 Cor 1:10
 

CharismaticLady

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I would be interested in any Jehovah's Witness who thinks born again Christians do not sin, even after their receiving their baptism maam. You see, we all speak in agreement 1 Cor 1:10

I wasn't talking about not sinning the second type of sin. We do commit those. (But not the first). What I was talking about was your description of predestination. Do you know what that means?
 

marks

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The brain has four quadrillion connections. Imagine a huge forest of trees a million square miles. Each tree has 100,000 leaves and each tree was connect to eachother. That's how vast the brain is. Then the soul and spirit ... you have to imagine they are just as complex. We can only scratch the surface.
That's quite a perpective!

Much love!
 

Robert Gwin

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I wasn't talking about not sinning the second type of sin. We do commit those. (But not the first). What I was talking about was your description of predestination. Do you know what that means?

I think so maam, but I don't remember discussing it with you. To me predestination would mean you have no say so in a matter. Although it may apply in some instances or circumstances, I would say that is very rare. I believe we have been given free will, especially when it comes to choosing which God we will serve. It would be unrighteous on God's part to destroy someone whom He personally predestined to fail.

If you disagree with what I just said, please tell me why, and how you understand it as I seem to be ignorant as to how this came up.