The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol - THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL IN ANY FORM IS A SIN!

[post]

@post your ideas are very apostate. @theefaith is telling correctly the truth about authority.

Because 'you say so'?

Lol previously covered.

I cited scripture without perversion.

 

[post]

@post your ideas are very apostate. @theefaith is telling correctly the truth about authority.

All power and authority belong to God, not men?
You're really going to call that 'apostate?'
That's your position?

If you please can I direct your precious attention to 1 Peter 3:22?

 

[Raccoon1010]

Because 'you say so'?

Lol previously covered.

I cited scripture without perversion.

Here is the scripture that spells out the giving of authority. If authority was taken from them it would have been given to a prophet or prophets over the years warning the people of an apostasy as has been done thru-out the scriptures:

Acts 1:22-26
22beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. 24And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.

 

[post]

Here is the scripture that spells out the giving of authority. If authority was taken from them it would have been given to a prophet or prophets over the years warning the people of an apostasy as has been done thru-out the scriptures:

Acts 1:22-26
22beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. 24And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.

You're sticking with authority doesn't belong to God? Are you aware of Proverbs 16:33?

So who is Paul and who appointed him to be the bondservant of God?
Why did God turn the lot men cast to a man who was never heard from again in scripture? And why did He choose Saul, who was rejected by every man thinking himself an authority in the church, and change him into Paul, meaning 'small' then use him to rebuke Peter, whom you suppose yourself disciple of?

What was God teaching, and to who, by these things?

 

[Raccoon1010]

You're sticking with authority doesn't belong to God? Are you aware of Proverbs 16:33?

So who is Paul and who appointed him to be the bondservant of God?
Why did God turn the lot men cast to a man who was never heard from again in scripture? And why did He choose Saul, who was rejected by every man thinking himself an authority in the church, and change him into Paul, meaning 'small' then use him to rebuke Peter?
What was God teaching, and to who, by these things?

God called Paul, that is spelled out in his heavenly vision of the Angel. God may call others to be prophets and apostles. But notice that Paul did not deviate from the Apostles. He joined them. God did not start a new church with Paul. The church was built on Peter.

Acts 9 1 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

 

[post]

Here is the scripture that spells out the giving of authority. If authority was taken from them it would have been given to a prophet or prophets over the years warning the people of an apostasy as has been done thru-out the scriptures:

Acts 1:22-26
22beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” 23So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias. 24And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all men, show which one of these two You have chosen 25to occupy this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26And they drew lots for them, and the lot fell to Matthias; and he was added to the eleven apostles.

Read it again with understanding, Devin. Men decided, not by the Spirit but by their human logic, to set someone up in the place of Judas, because they considered the number God had assigned them to be insufficient.
So those men 'put forward' 2 that they chose themselves, thinking that their own choices and reasoning could be substitute for God's will and God's ways and God's thoughts.
Then they used divination.
They arrived at man who scripture then promptly forgets, and God appoints Paul.
God who destroys the wisdom of the wise and chooses the things men despise.

What does this mean, Devin?

 

[post]

The church was built on Peter.

False premise previously debunked.
1 Corinthians 3:11

 

[Raccoon1010]

Read it again with understanding, Devin. Men decided, not by the Spirit but by their human logic, to set someone up in the place of Judas, because they considered the number God had assigned them to be insufficient.
So those men 'put forward' 2 that they chose themselves, thinking that their own choices and reasoning could be substitute for God's will and God's ways and God's thoughts.
Then they used divination.
They arrived at man who scripture then promptly forgets, and God appoints Paul.
God who destroys the wisdom of the wise and chooses the things men despise.

What does this mean, Devin?

They used divination? You're accusing the apostles of Jesus of divination. I'll leave that up to you then.

You have some ideas that Paul was called and Matthias should not have been called. We can't take authority away from the apostles and and assign it to ourselves, that we know better then them. And your ideas can't be proven in scripture.

 

[post]

They used divination? You're accusing the apostles of Jesus of divination. I'll leave that up to you then.

Read the text again, and understand what it is saying. There is no mention of the Spirit directing these things in Acts 1:15-26.
They decide someone must take the place of Judas. Men, not the Spirit, choose two men, and cast lots.
Who is Judas? Who is he a type of? What does Judas represent?
So Peter of his own volition decides someone must sit in the seat of Judas - - what does this represent?

Why does God choose and appoint Paul and use Paul to rebuke Peter?

Who does Matthias represent in the church?

 

[post]

You have some ideas that Paul was called and Matthias should not have been called. You're taking authority away from the apostles and trying to give it to yourself,

Are you really so dense or just so full of hate for me because I don't praise you?
Who chose Paul? Did post choose Paul??

Of course Matthias had to be called and that by the will of men! To become the Judas!

If you think this is in the Bible because men are supposed to take the authority of God for themselves, then why does Acts 9 exist?

Authority of man is congruent to Judas
Authority of God is congruent to Paul, the kingdom given to the Gentiles by faith.

This is a picture of Christ, testifying of Him - and of antichrist, who by His mouth He destroys. You know He called Saul/Paul with His voice, by the breath of His mouth!

 

[Raccoon1010]

Read the text again, and understand what it is saying. There is no mention of the Spirit directing these things in Acts 1:15-26.
They decide someone must take the place of Judas. Men, not the Spirit, choose two men, and cast lots.
Who is Judas? Who is he a type of? What does Judas represent?
So Peter of his own volition decides someone must sit in the seat of Judas - - what does this represent?

Why does God choose and appoint Paul and use Paul to rebuke Peter?

Who does Matthias represent in the church?

You're making the assumption that the apostles did not have the spirit in making this decision to cast lots. That also can't be proven in scripture. In fact they didn't make that decision to cast lots by themselves. They brought it to the Lord in prayer and in spirit received an answer. That can be assumed:

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

 

[Instant]

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The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol - THE CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL IN ANY FORM IS A SIN!

Satan and his angels have ran wild with incorrect definitions of "wine", deceiving a majority of the world into thinking that our HOLY GOD consumed intoxicating beverages, but this is obviously a doctrine of devils - The Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol...

In the Bible, BOTH fermented alcoholic wine, AND non-alcoholic grape juice were called "wine" - The Lord Jesus Christ drank and created non-alcoholic grape juice.

"New wine" means freshly squeezed grape juice that hasn't been fermented, and thus contains no alcohol.

The Lord Jesus Christ is not a hypocrite - He would never forbid alcohol, and then drink it himself -- God specifically says NOT TO DRINK ALCOHOLIC WINE, and describes it in detail here:

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Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.

They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

Proverbs 23:31-35

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Now that you know that you've been lied to by Satan and his angels, I will now show you some scripture talking about "new wine" - unfermented non-alcoholic grape juice straight from the grape cluster.

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Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.

Isaiah 65:8

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You have now been informed of the two types of "wine" in the Bible, the forbidden alcoholic fermented grape juice, and the non-alcoholic freshly squeezed grape juice that The Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples drank called "new wine".

Next, I will show you a piece of scripture showing how "new wine" is indeed freshly squeezed non-alcoholic GRAPE JUICE, and not the forbidden fermented alcoholic "WINE" of today.

This is what The Lord Jesus Christ and his disciples drank - NON-ALCOHOLIC JUICE DIRECTLY FROM THE GRAPE.

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And in the vine were three branches: and it was as though it budded, and her blossoms shot forth; and the clusters thereof brought forth ripe grapes: And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.

Genesis 40:10-11

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At this point, anyone with the Holy Spirit of God living inside them should be 100% satisfied that the Lord Jesus Christ never drank alcohol, but I'll take it even further - why not?

The Bible says to "be sober" many, MANY times - sober means "not under the infuence of intoxicating substances", such as ALCOHOL and PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS.

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Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

1 Peter 5:8

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Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1 Thessalonians 5:6-8

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It should be noted, that The Lord Jesus Christ was even tempted with an alcoholic beverage at one point, and He refused it - your God is not a hypocrite!

When did this happen?

The Lord Jesus Christ was given an opportunity on the cross to sin, when a sponge of ALCOHOLIC "VINEGAR" (a fermented alcoholic drink popular with the Romans) was given to Him - what did The Lord Jesus Christ do? HE WOULD NOT DRINK IT, BECAUSE HE IS HOLY AND SINLESS, AND DRINKING ANY ALCOHOL WHATSOEVER IS A SIN!!!

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And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

Matthew 27:33-34

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I've wanted to write this for a while now - there is a lot of historical information out there that I could have used, and a few other people have said similar things, but I wanted to prove it by using only the Bible - well, here it is - the Holy Spirit of God has helped me to prove my point beyond a shadow of a doubt - no one can ever slander and blasphemy The Lord Jesus Christ in this manner again -- the consumption of alcohol in any amount is a sin -- The Lord Jesus Christ is HOLY, and He NEVER consumed alcohol, AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU...

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And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Isaiah 6:3

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Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1 Peter 1:16

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Don't listen to anyone that says anything different than what I have said - most people calling themselves "Christians" are FAKE CHRISTIANS -- they do not have the Holy Spirit of God living inside them -- the Bible warns us about these types of people; please try to remember - only born again Christians are protected from demon possession - if you're talking to someone that's not born again, then it's extremely likely that you're talking to the demons inside them; HARDLY ANYONE IS ACTUALLY BORN AGAIN...

"...having not the Spirit."

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How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Jude 1:18-19

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I'd like to end this by saying: Even *IF* you're born again - if you consume ANY alcohol, YOU WILL GO TO HELL.

If you still think that the Lord Jesus Christ drank alcohol, and that it's ok for YOU to drink, then it's extremely likely that you're NOT born again in the first place - no born again Christian thinks that the Lord Jesus Christ ever drank alcohol.

If you're not born again, then you're going to go to Hell when you die.

If you ARE Born Again, and you drink alcohol, or you take psychotropic drugs, unless you stop for good, you're going to go to Hell when you die.

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Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17

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For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Hebrews 10:26-31

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And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luke 6:46

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And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hebrews 5:9

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Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:21

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Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1 Timothy 5:20

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Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:4

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Stop sinning, or go to the Lake of Fire...

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The Bible never forbids drinking alcohol. It only forbids drinking in excess. Jesus most certainly did turn water into real wine and drank real wine. Why would the Bible tell us not to drink grape juice in excess, but it does say not to drink wine in excess? If drinking any alcohol is a sin as you claim, why allow it to be drunk as long as it is not in excess? Why not say we cannot drink any wine? I have heard this kind of thing as long as I have been in church, and never believed it. It makes no sense.

 

[post]

You're making the assumption that the apostles did not have the spirit in making this decision to cast lots. That also can't be proven in scripture. In fact they didn't make that decision to cast lots by themselves. They brought it to the Lord in prayer and in spirit received an answer. That can be assumed:

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

No mention of the Spirit in this section of Acts at all.
They specifically put forward two people by nothing but their own human decision and then cast lots instead of the way lots were used tribe by tribe house by house family by family in the OT to choose Saul as King and find who had stolen the devoted garment of Babylon from Jericho.

I am sorry you can't see the scripture past your Rome blinders.

How many earthly Chinese lives did you prolong this week?

 

[Marymog]

Another person who wants to be a preacher .......


Why would Jesus turn water into wine if he didn’t want anyone to drink wine........wouldn’t that be leading people into sin. It is classed as His first miracle. Why would he serve wine and bread at the last supper as a symbol of his sacrifice.

Hey Rita,

Mitch thinks that Jesus turned water into grape juice. Quote from the OP: “The Lord Jesus Christ drank and created non-alcoholic grape juice.”

Even though there is ZERO evidence it was grape juice, Mitch thinks it was.

Mary

 

[Raccoon1010]

Are you really so dense or just so full of hate for me because I don't praise you?

How many earthly Chinese lives did you prolong this week?

You could learn from me @post:

Galatians 5:22-23

New International Version

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.[/QUOTE]

 

[Nancy]

Priscilla and Aquila, a Jewish Christian couple who had come to Ephesus with the Apostle Paul, instructed Apollos: "When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more adequately."

There is no longer male, or female Greek nor Jew. We are all one in Christ. Must say that I do personally know some pretty "unlearned" Christian men but, they think they know...

 

[Marymog]

Read the text again, and understand what it is saying. There is no mention of the Spirit directing these things in Acts 1:15-26.
They decide someone must take the place of Judas. Men, not the Spirit, choose two men, and cast lots.
Who is Judas? Who is he a type of? What does Judas represent?
So Peter of his own volition decides someone must sit in the seat of Judas - - what does this represent?

Why does God choose and appoint Paul and use Paul to rebuke Peter?

Who does Matthias represent in the church?

Hi post,

How did you come to the conclusion that “Men, not the Spirit, choose two men,”? VS 24 clearly states they prayed and said, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which one of these two you have chosen. Are you suggesting that Jesus didn’t show them which one HE chose?

Also, Peter didn’t didn’t decide that someone must sit in the seat of Judas. In vs 20 Peter quoted Psalms. He was acting in accordance to OT Scripture (the word of God).

Bible study Mary

 

[post]

How did you come to the conclusion that “Men, not the Spirit, choose two men,”?

because it's explicitly said they, did:

And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
(Acts 1:23)​

no mention of the Spirit moving anyone. very much in contrast with how the lot was used in the OT to choose men: compare 1 Samuel 10, Joshua 7. by tribe, by clan, by family, by house they arrived at a man.
not so here. they picked two people, then cast lots over them like the two goats at Yom Kippur.

who is "they?" who are the influential people present pushing two men to the front?

i'm going to take the position it's believing pharisees, and that these two men are pharisees who have come to faith - of the same group that we find again in Acts 15 wanting to impose the law of Moses on gentile believers, and who Peter sins with, being afraid of them, in Antioch when Paul rebukes him. there in Galatians 2 when Peter because of his fear of the pharisetical Christians starts acting hypocritical, it says he's leading others astray by this, all the Jews with him, even Barnabas.
so we have an established pattern of Peter being influenced by these pharisetical believers in Jerusalem. i think the whole pattern fits here in Acts 1, and explains why the contrast of God choosing Paul in and of itself speaks of the gospel, of the two goats, of the good & the wicked shepherd of Zechariah.

this is a complex topic, as you can see, i hope

Also, Peter didn’t didn’t decide that someone must sit in the seat of Judas. In vs 20 Peter quoted Psalms.

it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take
(Acts 1:20)

​

what is the seat of Judas? who was Judas the shepherd of?
is Judas a good shepherd or a bad shepherd?
so if someone else is taking the position of the wicked shepherd, what are they doing potting Barsabas and Matthias forward?
who are they? why do we never hear their names ever again? because they occupy the seat of desolation, of the idol shepherd?

and more importantly -- who is Paul, whom God chose? why is God choosing Paul an apostle if the magic number is 12 and there's already 12?

suppose i tell you i'm going to appoint you to be the new Judas!
is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[post]

i trust everyone doesn't mind my detracting from the main topic in this thread.
but the main topic is a 100% completely settled question and there's no usefulness is having that same argument over and over with a handful of people who want to condemn all grapes.
this topic was essentially over with on page 1. no it's not a sin to drink alcohol, but drunkenness leads to all kinds of sin. yes clearly Christ drank wine.

 

[Marymog]

because it's explicitly said they, did:

And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
(Acts 1:23)​

no mention of the Spirit moving anyone. very much in contrast with how the lot was used in the OT to choose men: compare 1 Samuel 10, Joshua 7. by tribe, by clan, by family, by house they arrived at a man.
not so here. they picked two people, then cast lots over them like the two goats at Yom Kippur

Thank you post.

Soooo you don’t believe that when they asked Jesus to choose (Vs 24) he chose to ignore them and Jesus didn’t choose? Men chose; not Jesus?